Spyder downloading issues

[gman994]

I have a number of Spyder controllers on a Jace network that will not respond to a download. There are PVL's for the zone dampers and PUL's for the equipment. There are 4 RTU's with an avg of 9 zones for each unit. There are also 4 VFD's with Lon boards that are configured for Fieldbus control, and they operate the supply fans in the units. Out of the 4 systems, only one system responds to downloads, the other 3 do not. I can't even run the controllers in Debug, I get a window stating that there have been changes made to the application and it needs to be downloaded to controller. All of the controllers have been earth grounded. I can see their operation thru the Graphics, and the systems appear to be functioning. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks --- gman

[davem]

Are the Spyder's the ILC version, which will allow downloading from any brand of JACE? If not, they will require a WEBS JACE to download them (or a WEBS laptop...).
It's quite possible to program non-ILC Spyders using WEBS, then bring them in to another brand of JACE (e.g. Vykon) through your laptop's Spyder library, and all looks well, but downloading is the only thing that won't work...it sounds like that is what you are running into.

[gman994]

I'm unsure of the meaning of ILC version. However, it is a WEBS Jace.

[davem]

ILC stands for Independent License Controller (or something like that), denoted by an "ILC" at the end of the part number on the sticker, which is an added-cost option for Spyder controllers allowing the Spyder programming tool running on any brand of JACE to program the Spyders.
Since you have a WEBS JACE, it's not an issue...so for the original issue, I guess I got nuthin'...

[gman994]

I wasn't aware of the ILC classification, thanks for the heads-up. Yesterday I replaced one of the zone PVL controllers because the integral actuator had failed (gears I'm suspecting). This was also one of the controllers I couldn't download, debug, or diagnose outputs on. After getting the new controller in, I was able to match it, commission it, download it, and re-bind all of the points and get it online. kinda make me wonder if we have a bushel of bad controllers. Thanks for responding. --- gman

[short243]

There is also an issue of which tool was used, an older Jace may not communicate correctly with a new Spyder. The new Spyders use a different tool set.

[gman994]

That's the weird part about it. I checked a number of controllers, some that I was having problems with, and some that I wasn't, and they all had an 07 date code. The new PVL I installed was a Sylk-bus version and I had no problem getting it going. BTW, I am connecting thru IExplorer, not Workbench. Where do you find the info stating what the Spyder version is, and what version tool was used to program it ?

[short243]

Hi, Sorry for the delay, log in issues.

Spyder Tool Niagara-AX Version Compatibility
Spyder Tool Version Niagara-AX 3.0 Niagara-AX 3.1
Niagara-AX 3.2 Niagara-AX 3.3 Niagara-AX 3.4
1.5.0 Not Tested Yes Yes Not Tested Not Tested
1.5.4 Not Tested Yes Yes Not Tested Not Tested
1.14.0 No No Yes No No
1.15.1 No No Yes No No
1.16.1 No No Yes No No
1.18.4 No No Yes Yes Yes
1.19.5 No No Yes Yes Yes
1.19.13 No No Not Tested Yes Not Tested
2.0.5 No No Yes Yes Not Tested
3.0.5 No No Not Tested Yes Not Tested
3.1.3 No No No Yes Yes
4.6.0 No No No Yes Yes



Spyder Controller Network Resource Guidelines for
WEBs-AX Controllers (Maximum Number of Spyder
Controllers on the LonWorks network based on
Program Application size)** Spyder loaded with VAV Application
Spyder Lon Spyder BACnet
WEBs-AX Controller Each Spyder Device loaded with VAV Application having:
- 167 Function Blocks
- 54 network variables
- 40 Niagara points
- 4 PX views each having 10 points Each Spyder
Device loaded with VAV Application having:
- 167 Function Blocks
- 100 BACnet Objects
- 40 Niagara points
- 4 PX views each having 10 points
WEB-201 Base Model Not Supported
WEB-201 w/NPM-128 Not Supported
WEB-403-AX Web-545-AX Not Supported
WEB-403-AX-E WEB-545-AX-E 40+*
WEB-600 Base Model 77+*
WEB-600 w/NPM-100+*



Spyder Feature Matrix Spyder Tool Version Spyder
I models Spyder II Spyder Micro Spyder BACnet
PVL6438A, PVL6438N, PUL6438 PVL6438AS, PVL6438NS,
PUL6438S PVL4024NS, PVL4022AS,PUL4024S, PUL1012S,
PVL0000AS PVB6436AS, PVB6438NS, PUB6438S
1.19.5 and below 100 FBs, 62 NVs Not Supported Not Supported Not Supported
2.0.5 100FBS, 62 NVs, SylkTM Bus Not Supported Not Supported
3.0.5 200FBs, 220 NVs, Sylk Bus Not Supported
3.1.3
4.6.0 200 FBs, 500 BACnet Objects, Sylk Bus
*Spyder will only work on WEBS branded JACE's
-WEBS or WEBS OPEN can have one or both features
-Spyder will not work with any other brand of JACE
*Spyder will only work with WEBS!
-Like any other controller, they can be brought in as 3rd party devices
Purpose of Spyder-ILC
*Provide a mechanism to allow Honeywell
Authorized Contractors that use competitive
NiagaraAX offerings to use the Spyder controller
*
*Provide a path for Authorized Contractors to
migrate competitive jobs to Honeywell with the Spyder controller
*
*Provide a solution to end users that would not lock them into one brand

*The Spyder-ILC is an individually licensed controller
-Spyder-ILC controllers will accept a download
from the Spyder Tool regardless of the brand of workstation/JACE
-In other words, features within the license are ignored
*

[skwsproul]

Which Jace are you using? Just ran into an issue updating a site today using hw spyder tool 4.8 on a j403ax-ex and could not download controllers via the jace but ok with my laptop. Here is why.
All WEB-403-AX, WEB-545-AX, WEB-403-AX-E, and WEB-545-AX-E controllers will include a
“Honeywell.license” that will not include the “spyderProgrammable” feature for Spyder Lon controllers or the
“spyderBacnetProgrammable” feature for Spyder BACnet controllers. The “spyderProgrammable” feature for
Spyder Lon controllers and the “spyderBacnetProgrammable” feature for Spyder BACnet controllers will be
available as upgrades.
The whole Doc is HERE. (https://extranet.honeywell.com/ecc/TheBuildingsForum/SpyderLON/Spyder%20LON%20Tech%20Tips/WEBs-AX-Spyder%20Compatibility-Resource-Licensing%20UpdateV3.pdf)