What's the next big thing?

[Berlamfer]

What do you think is the next big thing in HVAC besides pressure, temperature and humidity measurement?

[yellowirenut]

digital controls (txv, compressors, etc) like in a mini-split but used in a standard split unit and also in RTU.

[ascj]

What do you think is the next big thing in HVAC besides pressure, temperature and humidity measurement?

Maybe I don't get your post, but haven't pressure, temperature, and humidity measurements been the staple of our business since the beginning?

It's alot more digital now. But even the 50 year old pneumatic systems measured all that.

The next be thing, I hope, in HVAC is ways to reduce fiction heat. I can't even imagine the amount of wasted energy gone to fiction. I'm no scientist but there is got to be a better way. We are still using the same mechanical means from 50+ years ago.

[yellowirenut]

are you thinking in the lines of a Magnetic bearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_bearing) I agree they have not been used to much in our industry.

[ascj]

are you thinking in the lines of a Magnetic bearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_bearing) I agree they have not been used to much in our industry.

Yeah, that's one solution. Can't see that being applied to smaller hp motors.

The more i get thinking about the OP question......the more I think about the huge waste of energy caused by my commercial accounts. I read on these forums about all these high end residential systems hitting amazing seer ratings, these same homes be tightened up so tight...they need mechanical ventilation.

Then I go to one of my lab facilities on a 60 degree day......and my chiller and boiler are just humming along to maintain temperature. What a waste of energy. I do what I can to try to make the system work the best it can. But it's inevitable that the boiler are going to have to generate heat to offset the temperature of the incoming air. Which in turn is using energy to produce these temperatures.

What's the solution? I don't know, but it's gotten better over the years with more accurate digital controls. But how many are even working accurately? I would put my money on less than 5%.:grin2:

[btuhack]

Efficiency. With the rising costs of energy and our dependence on foriegn sources, reducing use is key whether it be at the consumption or envelope losses/gains.

Newer muli mini split systems are transfering heat from one area of a building to another like a water source heat pump system, rather than burn/ consume energy for area only to offset it elsewhere. Clever, more efficient, makes good sense.

Keep hearing about chilled beams and the savings that they have to offer.

Europe is probably leading the way and has americas solution.

[tech93]

How bout titanium bearing?Wow the price on that.There goes the work:.02:

[ACFIXR]

Infrared bioptic laser lenses, increasing the suns wavelengths to overcome our primitive solar recovery devices.

Solar energy is the horseless carriage of the future......

I just made the lens part up. Solar energy is waiting for the Henry Ford,Einstien,Wright brother,Bill Gates,Thomas Edison,Eli Whitney to come along and change history................................:cheers:

[jayguy]

noise in office environments will be the next big thing. making equipment quieter, making environments quieter, etc.

[tech93]

noise in office environments will be the next big thing. making equipment quieter, making environments quieter, etc.

They use vav boxes for that application:.02:

[CraziFuzzy]

They use vav boxes for that application:.02:

and/or fanless splits

[CraziFuzzy]

I think the next moves will be towards combining all thermal systems in the building. I'd love to see liquid cooled refrigerators and freezers, heat recovery water heaters and clothes dryers, etc. It's silly that we pump heat out of our food, and into the living spaces, just to then have to pump it out to the AC Condenser. I would love to have a fluid system in the home, not unlike the radiators of old. Fanless, ductless systems hot or cold coils in each room, with a single common ventilator moving only enough air for exchanging, not for heating/cooling.

[james mo]

I would like to see a designed community with businesses and residential subdivisions tied to common water source loops to take advantage of all of the rejected heat from industrial process equipt or server farms. Millions of btuhs being rejected into the air from a server condenser field next to an office building with a boiler firing to heat the building and domestic hot water. What a waste.

[berean]

variable speed compressors (like what Fujitsu and Mitsubishi use) will be the next big thing. They are quiet and super efficient. Trane will have a condenser next year with that technology including electronic expansion valve. Very cool.

[duke of earl]

The next big thing will not be a good thing. Equipment will have communication and self diagnostics where some power hungry nut will receive messages from his system that tells him what is broke and he will send a $10.00/hr. maintenance man to change the part. He can't fix everything but most things will be easily unplugged and replaced. This will reduce our field down to specialized techs and the middle of the road techs will have to compete with the maintenance man. Look out! It's being implemented in the manufacturing sector as we speak. Wake up America.

[ascj]

The next big thing will not be a good thing. Equipment will have communication and self diagnostics where some power hungry nut will receive messages from his system that tells him what is broke and he will send a $10.00/hr. maintenance man to change the part. He can't fix everything but most things will be easily unplugged and replaced. This will reduce our field down to specialized techs and the middle of the road techs will have to compete with the maintenance man. Look out! It's being implemented in the manufacturing sector as we speak. Wake up America.

Will have to disagree. Why because most of you commercial building's equipment are communicating and have pages of diagnostics. All it has done is made it more technically challenging. I count the amount of times, I'm on the phone with a facilities guy telling the computer says the units is doing this and I'm standing right at the unit trying to convince him it's doing something completely different.

Back to the residential.....have you had to troubleshot a newer inverter minisplit? Not as easy as the old single speeds is it?

[duke of earl]

Well I'm already seeing facility maintenance doing most of their work in-house except for the more complex work. Now we have turbocor chillers that require very little maintenance (punching tubes and tightening electrical connections) in which a maintenance man can do easily. No work for a middle of the road tech on that machine.

[CraziFuzzy]

Well I'm already seeing facility maintenance doing most of their work in-house except for the more complex work. Now we have turbocor chillers that require very little maintenance (punching tubes and tightening electrical connections) in which a maintenance man can do easily. No work for a middle of the road tech on that machine.

Being an in-house guy, I can say that, at least for us, this is exactly the opposite. We are contracting out more and more maintenance. Everything used to be done in-house. EVERYTHING. That has steadily been changing over the years. We now just deal with the regular maintenance, but anything major, we don't have the manpower in-house anymore (building has rapidly grown, with no increase in workforce). About the only thing we are doing more of in-house these days is controls and fire-alarms, but that is due to incompetence in the current crop of vender staff.

[ascj]

Well I'm already seeing facility maintenance doing most of their work in-house except for the more complex work. Now we have turbocor chillers that require very little maintenance (punching tubes and tightening electrical connections) in which a maintenance man can do easily. No work for a middle of the road tech on that machine.

And a big WOW to the upper management for forking out the beans for some Turbocors and relying on in house maintenance to take care of them.

The only thing I see removed from the equation is oil analysis. What else? Man I would be real leery....that all that was be checked and maintained was tubes and electrical connections.

[referteacher]

How about a means of cooling without machinery, strictly electronic. Like a reverse microwave.

[CraziFuzzy]

I think the 'middle of the road techs' need to learn to work with the in-house staff in those situations. I know we use our service reps as valuable resources, and they much prefer coming to our site than one that has the equipment completely ignored in-between their visits. We certainly aren't the 'norm' when it comes to in-house maintenance departments, but we certainly aren't the only facility that has a full maintenance staff that has some idea of what they are doing.

[CraziFuzzy]

How about a means of cooling without machinery, strictly electronic. Like a reverse microwave.

that's a peltier plate... highly inefficient compared to a conventional heat pump, but relatively cheap to produce, and practically bulletproof.

[jayguy]

How about a means of cooling without machinery, strictly electronic. Like a reverse microwave.

somebody built a domestic refrigerator using sound waves for cooling (kinda like using lasers)...i do not know how efficient or cost effective...only that it worked. i wonder what happened to it?

[jayguy]

found it...http://www.aip.org/dbis/stories/2004/14171.html

[hvac.dave]

I've recently noticed a big push for combination systems, using solar/hydronic/air/geothermal systems, all in the aim of achieving greater efficiency. New buildings downtown are spending money on these systems, (probably with the help of government grants) and although it's still a very expensive initial cost for the homeowner, I think with rising energy costs, those prices will drop, and this equipment will become mainstream. :.02:

[HAP2]

I'm thinking we will soon see a form of Ultrasonic heat pump...

[duke of earl]

I think the 3rd and final rapture will take place before any of this talk happens! :whistle: