Need Opinions, Advice and Recommendations

[vvk]

:confused:
Thanks in advance for all your responses.

The background


Recently remodeled my home. Planning to install a new cooling (and heating) system
House currently has a fairly new but noisy Goodman gas fired furnace in the attic which the contractors recommend should be replaced with a matched unit.
The ducting is not very efficient (needs to put new registers & ducts in the old section of the house - 5 rooms)
Live in Los Angeles (45 - 90 F), but the house gets v. hot/cold (up to 95) as the older section does not have insulated walls and is exposed to the sun
House - single floor, approx 2000 sq ft, front and back exposed to direct am/pm Sun
Have met with 2 contractors, one who deals in Carrier and the other in York. Both seem competent and knowledgeable, but I have no way of telling if they actually are knowing!
Carrier recommends 4 zones, but York says "4 zones will be compromising the possibility to use all zones at the same time. The correct way to zone a home is to size the equipment for the smallest zone, there fore if you needed to cool the entire home at the same time you would be relying on a very small system"

Carrier:

Gas fired furnace Model 58 DLX
Slimline Model 38HDR Performance series.
New ceiling registers in 5 rooms with Mylar duct work.
Honeywell 4 zone system with 4 thermostats
All inclusive, turnkey approx $-------------

York:

York Affinity Model- CZH02411 (2T 18S AC R410A)
ADP Model CZH02411 (R410A 2-3T HORIZ HI EFF W/TXV)
YORK YP9C080B12MP12C (80BTU 12CFM MOD 97% MP PREM W/ECM MOTOR)
York S1THSU32P7Y (7-day prog. 4-Stg HT. 2-Stg CL)
Ceiling Registers, ducting, etc.
All inclusive, turnkey approx $-------------


The Issues:

Have read several negative/discouraging reviews of YORK about frequent breakdowns and part replacements. Should I worry?
Could you recommend some good contractors in my area (Los Angeles, CA)
If you were to base your choice solely on the basis of the brand which would you choose?
Which brands would you avoid?
Comments/Observations/Critiques of the Carrier/York proposals.


I am going to be spending a substantial amount and would like to get a v. reliable, effective system. I have no problem spending a few thousand more if it is going to get me a better system.

Thanks for reading and thanks for your advice

[GoColts]

The guy from York is correct. At 2000 sq ft and poor insulation a 5 ton unit is the way I would go but im old school and I am using the math that the industry use too use. Now they insulate homes better and so the numbers run a little bit different. I would look at the Carrier Infinty line. Ive installed 2 of them, the furnace has a varable speed blower motor and you can zone it easily. The Condenser comes with two cooling stages. So you deliver the proper amount of air if 1 zone is calling or if all 4 zones are calling. If you undersize your equipment you will not keep up if all 4 zones are calling at the sametime. And you will not be happy after spending alot of money for new equipment.

[NCHeat]

I agree that 4 zones is going to be tough if all are calling at the same time. I have installed alot of that same YORK equipment and all of my customers have been happy.The modulating furnace is very cool. The Affinity line is very nice as well. You could be standing next to it and not realize it's running. 2000 sq. ft.? Have either contractor done a load calc? 2T seems a bit small, but if you have a ton of insulation and a tight envelope, that could be perfect. I would not be afraid to go York.

[k-fridge]

vvk,

Please review the site rules, pricing is not allowed.

Thanks,

Mod Team

[beenthere]

The York guy is out to lunch on his zoning theory.

[vvk]

The York guy is out to lunch on his zoning theory.

Does that mean that one can put 4 zones without a problem? Thanks

[beenthere]

Does that mean that one can put 4 zones without a problem? Thanks

It means its possible.

Evirozone, is good for homes that will have one or more small zones. While it still requires a bypass in most applications, It prevents equipment short cycling, since its a master slave zone system. Its an auto m aster system, the zone that calls the most becomes the master zone. And all other zones only receive heating or cooling when the master calls. While the master is calling, it looks at the temp in all other zones, and then opens those dampers as needed to keep the temp within a few tenths of a degree of set temp.

If living habits change, that another zone calls for heating or cooling more then the current master does. then it automatically makes that zone, the new master zone.

So a home that will have a small zone, is not a problem when done right.

[BaldLoonie]

http://www.airproductsinc.com/index.asp

Honest LA contractor

4 zones open isn't a problem. It's when 1 zone is open and you are trying to stuff 5 tons of air in it!

I'm not familiar with the system beenthere mentions but if only the master zone can turn on the equipment, that could be a problem. What happens if that stat is in an area of the house that needs less heating & cooling? Or if the bedrooms want heating & cooling at night while the master zone is empty?

[beenthere]

It constantly monitor s all zones. the zone that calls the most becomes the master. So if at night time, the bedrooms are calling more then say the living room was. the bedroom stat becomes the master then. The next day when when another zone calls for conditioning more then the bedrooms, that zone becomes the master, and brings on the equipment.

[aircooled53]

http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/controls/comfort-3-zone.shtml

[4inchCrescent]

4 zones can be done without a problem. We set up systems that work perfectly with 4 zones all of the time. Having said that, there are a couple of things that almost always have to be done.
1) You must install a barometric bypass damper on 90% of all installations that have 4 zones. A barometric bypass damper is basically a non electrical damper that prevents the furnace from trying to force a crazy amount of air through the smallest zone(s) in the home if they are the only ones calling for heating or cooling. This is essential because otherwise the system will continue to overheat and shut itself down, or freeze up and shut itself down. It would then wait 60 seconds or however long the equipment is set for and repeat the process again. This causes a lot of significant wear and tear on the system. This would be synonymous with turning your car off and then restarting it at every stop light. It wouldn't last very long.

2) All of the duct work needs to be laid out specifically to accommodate the new zone system. Trying to use existing duct work that was sized for a single zone system in part of the house while installing new duct work and then trying to balance all of it on a 4 zone system is a complete recipe for disaster. If you want a 4 zone system and you want it to work correctly you absolutely need to replace all of the duct work. If that is not an option then skip the 4 zone system and just go with a single zone or possibly a 2 zone system.

3) In my opinion York is garbage. In my opinion a lot of contractors like York because it is cheap. It is some of the cheapest equipment you can buy. Contractors like this because they can make more money bidding a york for the same price somebody else bids a Lennox, Trane or Carrier. York has also been around for a long time, so a lot of people have experience with it. In my opinion York units are noisy and break down frequently. I would go with the Carrier any day of the week. Or even better, get a bid from your local Lennox dealer as well. Lennox makes great equipment. Lennox also makes a system called a "Harmony" system that essentially is a 4-zone panel with a lot of programmable features. We have had great luck with these and all of our customers have been very happy. Just something to consider.

Hope this helps.

[moparhemi]

vvk,

I live in the LA area, orange county with higher temp. I would not waist my money on a zone system for are area. With new duct work you should be able to heat/cool the house well with single zone. You need a load calc to determine the size of system and proper duct design. 5 tons seems way to much. I cool my 3200 sqft 2 story house with a 4 ton. I done extensive air sealing and some insulation, I have more improvements to do. I would get a low to mid line unit and spend more money on improving your envelope.

MP

[vvk]

Thank you for your advice and suggestions. Very helpful indeed.