Trane Voyager & Varitrac

[DeltaT]

Last call today on 2 story medical building with 2nd story reaching 80 degrees controlled by Trane Voyager, Trane Zone sensors (7), Trane Varitrac.

Voyager is 10 ton, 2 compressors, heat pumps & electric back up but one compressor running. All zones calling for cooling, by-passed closed, most zones 5 to 8 degrees above set point yet Varitrac screen shows calling for one compressor only, the other not energized. OA sensor correct, discharge air sensor correct, all zone sensors correct, discharge air set point is 55 degrees but has correct reading of 67 degrees discharge in unit.

Varitrac should have 2nd stage energized. Can't shut system down because I would run all the patients out due to heat build up.

But the Varitrac is not indexing 2nd stage to come on.

And quick thoughts?

[jtricor]

Delta
Check to see if veritrac is set up for 2 heat 2 cool or look at how many compressors the veritrac states that it has, it sounds like it thinks it has only 1 compressor ???

[DeltaT]

jtricor
Thanks. I only had time to check the view and status menus and since the status menu listed two compressors with #1 on and #2 off I assumed it was set up for two compressors. But that assumption could be wrong. If so, it's probably been this way since installation 3 years ago.

Problem is I ran out of time as the building was closing up and they wanted me out. Amazing that customers will beg you to get there and then won't hang around to give us time to finish what we started.

I hope to get back there in the next couple of days.

[jtricor]

I have seen this happen alot, for the most part the veritrac will take off and run system with out any set-up so alot get left like that, just about all that I have looked at are still running in the factory default set-point I have even seen a jumper so that both compressors come on if there is a call for cooling because they didnt have a way to set the varitrac up.

[igwt777]

Originally posted by jtricor
I have seen this happen alot, for the most part the veritrac will take off and run system with out any set-up so alot get left like that, just about all that I have looked at are still running in the factory default set-point I have even seen a jumper so that both compressors come on if there is a call for cooling because they didnt have a way to set the varitrac up.

That is a "nice temporary fix" a Friday at 5:00PM. I've seen tha same on 2 stage cooling thermostats a jumper cable from y1 to y2. Next thing is that you have to fix it correctly because you are the next one there. Why are so many people that don't mind to do things the way they should be done!!!

[bku46]

Well, it would be great if you had the Tracker software and a laptop, but you can go thru the menues. I would first run the unit thru test mode in make sure everything stages on. Then I would review all menues for any mis configs, you most likely will find a mis-config or setup erro.Good luck.

[jtricor]

bku
you do not need any real software to talk to a veritrac or a tracker just use term mode with a cable that I have stated (with a part #) been using this for more than 10 years diffrent cable on the old command units I would be willing to e-mail anyone this so called software

[DeltaT]

jtricor
You guys with your laptops will choke on this, yes, I also have a laptop, but I have never connected to any automation systems with a laptop. I run the system doing the hardware- software method....I set it up by the switches, buttons, menus, whatever.

Maybe being able to dial in would be nice but I see no reason to continue to chase down the many versions of software put out by all the different manufacturers.

But, jtricor, if you have something that would make my life easier in setting Varitracs up I would appreciate the Email. My Email is on my profile.

Years ago Johnson was setting up a ton of Data Aires that I was doing start & tests on. Three of them they could not set up through their phone modem so they called me on the job and begged me to manually set them up so they would not have to make a 90 mile trip. I'll stick with hands on setups unless I can find a source of quick, inexpensive, dependable software for most of the units I work on. So far I have not.

[wolfdog]

I too, would be interested in the email you are offering.

My email is in my profile.

[jtricor]

I will do that with some more info for the two of you

[qtip]

Originally posted by jtricor
bku
you do not need any real software to talk to a veritrac or a tracker just use term mode with a cable that I have stated (with a part #) been using this for more than 10 years diffrent cable on the old command units I would be willing to e-mail anyone this so called software

If you have the "older" Tracker or CCP all you need is Hyper terminal, if this is a recent install you will need Tracker software......new CCP ships with the needed software unless that changed recently.

[bku46]

JTRICOR
Can you spell Varitrac? daaa I know you can use old hyper term, but the guy has no laptop, daaaa maybe you can send him yours.

[william antley]

I have had similar troubles with the Voyager controls. After doing a bunch of troubleshooting, I was assisting another tech over the radio, the problem turned out to be a failure in the economizer control module attached to the damper actuator. I had him disconnect the harness plug and the unit began operating as it should. In fact, when in test mode it would only bring up to the 1st stage of cooling and go no farther.
He disconnected the plug and it would "test" through every mode and came up with both stages of cooling as demended after the unit was reset.
My Voyager "black book" makes note of erratic unit operation as most likely originating with a failure in the econmizer module.
Maybe this will help.

[jtricor]

BKU your throwing stones in a glass house and your right my spelling does suck at times and so does yours in your post in commercial post by meltdown.This is how Circuit is spelled not circut now go blow your nose and come back to the board like a man

[Edited by jtricor on 07-21-2005 at 06:53 AM]

[crab master]

You Mean Circuit right? If you edit your post fast enough JT I'll delete this.

[Edited by crab master on 07-20-2005 at 09:53 PM]

[jtricor]

thanks crab master I had to quit laughing be for I could change anything I just about left it because it was to funny its been some long hot days and the fingers and the mind dont always work that good together

[crab master]

So ARE you going to edit it?

[DeltaT]

Otay! Enough with the speuling thing. Let's get back to me!

Quick stiop taday at de medical builuilding and wuent trugh de set-up menu and all it has is four choices of what de Varitrack is hooked to such as Voyager, Voyager heat pump, relay 2C2H, and Commercial CV and somtin else butts eye forget already.

So the menu states it's set up for a Voyeure heat pump, which it is. So is there a sub menu to get to how many compressors? I could find nothing else to address and I don't want to spend the time tomorrow getting the book from Trane. I already have a ton of books on Varitracks, Lennox, Carrier-Parker and a bunch of others.

There must be a sub-menu that would state one or two compressors on the Voyeuer heat pump, right?

Remember, the problem is not in the 10 tone unit itself at this time. The problem is that the CCP is not indexing the 2nd compressor to stage on according to it's view menu.

[crab master]

Delta T we're done with you. JK

So what about what William Antley said? You didnt' respond to that. Or is that what you're are meaning when you say it isn't in the 10 ton unit itself?

[DeltaT]

Mr Crab
Below is me quoting myself:

"Remember, the problem is not in the 10 tone unit itself at this time. The problem is that the CCP is not indexing the 2nd compressor to stage on according to its view menu."

This is in reply to his economizer problem example and to all others who might believe it's IN THE UNIT!

No, no, no.

When the Varitrac doesn't call for the second stage compressor to run the problem, most likely, is in the Varitrac.

The economizer is located inside the 10 ton Trane Voyager and will break the control circuit to the compressors when the economizer sensor says it can get some free cooling by using the OA. This is an internal function of the Voyager itself. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If the Varitrac display menu says compressor #1 is energized, which it is, AND compressor #2 is not energized, which it is not, then I would say the problem is in the Varitac and not in the unit, wouldn't you? :)

[crab master]

I would say that makes sense, but I do not know how your Trane unit nor Varitrac communicates. If they are using DO's out for each compressor, fan, economizer, heat stgs then what you are saying makes sense. But if it communicates via varying DC voltage, then maybe the unit can recognize that the economizer is enabled and only allow for economizer and 1st stg mechanical cool, thus not allowing you to see 2nd stage mechanical cool. Anyway I just wanted to make sure as I am reading these trying to learn. Also the Trane book(s) have helped me out more than once on problem units.

[william antley]

The problem we were having with our unit involved a TRANE DDC thermostat that should have been calling for 2nd stage as the space temp was 82 deg. F. with a setpoint on the slide being at 70 deg. F. Only 1st stage would energize until the economizer was removed from the circuitry, then 2nd stage would come on and perform.
My experience with the Vari-Trac system is fair and I have other buildings that have exhibited this same scenario.
It's also very easy to eliminate this possible problem by removing the economizer from the system and letting it operate by the Vari-Trac. If it remains in 1st stage only then the economizer is most assuredly not the problem. If 2nd stage energizes, there's your problem, the economizer.

[DeltaT]

william antley
Thanks for your input. You may have hit my problem on the head.

Got a hold of one of the local Trane field reps today and he says the UCP board in the Voyager run the unit entirely with just the Varitrac turning the system on/off and operating the zone dampers.

He also stated to put the system through the test procedure, which ironically I can't do now due to the temps inside and outside. If I shut the unit down to run the test I would empty all the patients out and that would not be good. So I'll wait until the temp gets mild again.

BUT, in my own logic I asked him then why the Varitrac display did not indicate 2nd stage energizer OR that the economizer was on line. He had no answer.

I'm going to follow your advice and I'll let you know. Thanks again.

[DeltaT]

Follow-up: Ends up the main board in the unit was bad & would not call for 2nd stage cooling. According to a slight hint from Trane this is an ongoing problem.

[crab master]

Thanks for letting us know what the problem was.