LA area HVAC contractors - another hidden camera story

[travisfl]

How disappointing; it is this kind of work that gives HVAC professionals a bad name.

http://kcbs.dayport.com/viewer/content/special.php?Art_ID=7654&Format_ID=2&BitRate_ID=8&Contract_ID=2&Obj_ID=4

If the above link doesn't work (requires Windows Media Player) then go here:

http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_196181825.html

[smokin68]

You're right. But I have to question who would take the time to snip a wire in the contactor's coil? I would always sell them a new contactor unless it's just been replaced(wear part,inexpensive) to prevent a callback. That was a ton of incompetance and a community shirt....

I'd like to see them do that with all professions instead of singling out HVAC. JMO

[Freezeking2000]

I do not understand why techs would do this. I quess this is a good reason to not pay techs based on sales. 90% of the connecticuts service techs other than 1 man bands do not get paid on the service they perform, they are hourly.

I am ashamed to even be associated with crooks like these guys!

[travisfl]

Originally posted by smokin68
I'd like to see them do that with all professions instead of singling out HVAC.

Auto repairs:
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_265183528.html

Health clubs:
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_147140051.html

Fake college degrees:
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_127143143.html

Gas stations:
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_120202055.html

Restaurants:
http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_047202949.html

I think they do a pretty good job, actually.

[troyorr]

On the other hand, you have the idiot homeowner that changes the filter and does't get the blowewr compartment door on properly. I come in, install the door and hand them the bill. Then they ***** because I didn't do anything. I just smile, stand there with my hand and and think to myself, "what an idiot." We can't win.

[BaldLoonie]

Neat! I haven't seen Paul Magers on the tube since I left the Twin Cities in 1991. He made the big time!

Anyway, I'd like to see them do something like that around here and see what the competition would do. Wonder if it would be as bad as 2 of 7 honest. If they called the big companies probably would be. I'd bet at least 1 would high pressure the cutie into new equipment.

Here's a similar story. Coworker/friend needs a ride to pick up his car from the dealer. Needed new mirror and check engine light was on. They called him to say it needed all new front brakes. Funny, had all new front brakes from a month or so before. We got there, looked at the pads, still like new. He lit up that service manager. They lifted the car and everyone confirmed new pads. While denying anything crooked, only explanation was tech wrote that new brakes were needed on the wrong invoice. Believe it or not?

[Special Ed]

I think someone oughtta do a sting on news reporters. Let's see how honest they are. LOL!

[tpa-fl]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie

Anyway, I'd like to see them do something like that around here and see what the competition would do. Wonder if it would be as bad as 2 of 7 honest. If they called the big companies probably would be. I'd bet at least 1 would high pressure the cutie into new equipment.

Give your local TV station a call and see if they'll do it. If you offer to inspect the units before the other hacks get brought in, the station will probably go along with it. If the local media does enough stings, the hacks will usually clean up their acts for a little bit.

You need to look at this from the homeowner's POV. Their AC's not working and that's all that they know. Loose wire, bad contactor, bad compressor, or "worn-out freon" (yes, I've been told that one before). Most homeowners don't have a clue about HVAC and are hiring people who they think are honest professionals. Maybe things are different up north, but down here in FL, I've encountered more marginal to poor HVAC contractors than outstanding ones. The latter do exist, but are very difficult to find. They're not always the largest nor most established firms either.

And the same applies to other professions as well. Take medicine for example. I've had some health problems over the past 6 months and was referred to see specialists. So, I saw the specialists. The 1st cardiologist wanted me to try a medication and seriously consider a pacemaker. The 1st GI doc wasn't sure what was going on and kept giving me a different reason each time, but the one thing remained constant -- he wanted to do exploratory surgery to find out what was going on. Neither drs' options sounded good & reasonable to me, so I saw new specialists. Cardiologist #2 agreed with Cardio#1's diagnosis, but totally disagreed on treatment, saying that that #1 was about 10 years behind on his medical knowledge and that following #1's advice probably would have given me a heart attack or put me in a coma. His suggestion? A few special exercises, and sure enough, no heart probs now. GI #2 had some rather harsh words to describe GI #1, something along the lines of "______ing idiot", you can fill in the rest. 2 prescriptions for a month and things are back to normal. So, hackery isn't limited to HVAC. At least most HVAC hackery isn't life-threatening.

[Edited by tpa-fl on 07-19-2005 at 10:21 AM]

[swat]

In a way I wish they would do this kinda stuff more often. After watching this how much extra ae you going to take and put into your call to make sure you are as honest as possible and that you are as trust worthy as possible. There are a ton of horrible companies out there all taking an advantage of people and to help get rid of them we should be happy. Yes it gives a huge black eye to the industry on a whole but you know as well as I that there are good honest companies out there and they will grow because people get busted like this. I am proud to say that the company I work for has been video taped like this before and we passed with flying colors and they call us back every now and then when they are doing the story only asking for that one technican. Kind of the control for the experiment.

[Mr Bill]

Well they should have called me.:D

There are crooks everywhere in every kind of business the a/c business sure does not have a patent on crooks just ask the cops, a crook is a crook regardless of how he rips someone off.

[Carnak]

It gives the industry a black eye, looks like the first two guys and the last guy were flat raters.

[Irishmist]

[Edited by John Lloyd on 07-19-2005 at 12:45 PM]

[a/c-harris]

maybe the techs are just that stupid?

[swat]

You know what Harris said may be one of the most accurate things. Like the master tech said... "Bad control board in the outdoor unit" I was like what the heck. One thing we forget and things I have seen from the quality of technician out there is the quality of the technician. Either way, dishonesty, ignorance, or stupidity some where the ball has been dropped. What if they are really that dumb.

[dash]

Originally posted by John Lloyd




[Edited by John Lloyd on 07-19-2005 at 12:45 PM]


John probably pointed out that this discussion would be better placed in the Pros section,before deleting his post,if so I agreee.

[Carnak]

Either that or he did not like my "JOKE" that the crooks were flat raters

[Panama]

How do you suppose this would have come out if they had requested only NATE certified technicians?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by Panama
How do you suppose this would have come out if they had requested only NATE certified technicians?


OMG! you would see 3000 responses and 10,000 views but a Nater never would have been the crook, that would have been to simple of a fix for him to figure out. :D

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

I'm all for exposing a "hack", but they should do a story on the homeowner or GC that bankrupts the honest contractor who is trying to make a living and get his business off the ground.
Its great to sell a 16 SEER gas pack until the HO asks to be financed AFTER the install when it was previously discussed payment upon completion.
Then you find out the guy has NO credit and has your $8000 job tied up.

[rugratatheart]

Very interesting. I live not far from the area that this hidden camera was shot and have found that the Mike Diamond people are extremely dishonest. I had them estimate a plumbing repair in my home and couldn't believe the price...I guess someone has to pay for the paint job on their trucks and their uniforms.

[tpa-fl]

Originally posted by Yellow Dot
I'm all for exposing a "hack", but they should do a story on the homeowner or GC that bankrupts the honest contractor who is trying to make a living and get his business off the ground.
Its great to sell a 16 SEER gas pack until the HO asks to be financed AFTER the install when it was previously discussed payment upon completion.
Then you find out the guy has NO credit and has your $8000 job tied up.

I think that's a prime time to execute a mechanic's lien..

[Panama]

Originally posted by rugratatheart
Very interesting. I live not far from the area that this hidden camera was shot and have found that the Mike Diamond people are extremely dishonest. I had them estimate a plumbing repair in my home and couldn't believe the price...I guess someone has to pay for the paint job on their trucks and their uniforms.

How does a high estimate support a claim of dishonesty? This seems to be a libelous statement.

[davetec]

High pricing may not be the sign of a hack. This guy may be covering all bases such a returning the area he works in back to the same condition he found it. A lot of low price contrators don't include that in their proposals and the customer is stuck with repairing finish work and such.

[MadeinUSA]

Why would the moderators let a non-professional start a thread like this in the public area?

Secondly, if he is a professional, but has not signed up, still, why would a professional post this crap which does nothing for our industry? Could it be it takes as much brain to be a hack as it does to post this trash in the public area?

[Irishmist]

dash, we agree on this one.

made, I also wonder.

[MadeinUSA]

Originally posted by rugratatheart
I had them estimate a plumbing repair in my home and couldn't believe the price...I guess someone has to pay for the paint job on their trucks and their uniforms. Believe it or not, our tools, knowledge, overhead and training cost a little more than a haircut does.

[ct2]

There are crooks everywhere in every kind of business the a/c business sure does not have a patent on crooks just ask the cops, a crook is a crook regardless of how he rips someone off.

I dont believe in being dishonest and loard knows it seems like everyone you run into anymore is out to get you in one way or another

There are people out there however THAT STILL MAKE MISTAKES
they are not out to rip anyone off, they just arent as perfect as the rest of the world yet. as someone else mentioned , it would be interesting to know just how honest the report is and how much info they have omitted to make their story sound the way they want it to .

If they need to be investigators and expose crooks in LA, they should start with themselves

[johnl45]

Thanks channel 2 I love to see stories like these on the news as it makes my customer’s appreciate me even more.

[beenthere]

I'm not sure I understand the high price means dishonest contractor remark.


I too wish they would do some thing like that in my area.

[Special Ed]

Originally posted by rugratatheart
Very interesting. I live not far from the area that this hidden camera was shot and have found that the Mike Diamond people are extremely dishonest. I had them estimate a plumbing repair in my home and couldn't believe the price...I guess someone has to pay for the paint job on their trucks and their uniforms.

Dishonest because they're expensive? Well, ya pay for what ya get.

I've noticed Rugrat hasn't posted anything since.... She's probably a troll.... And a doctor to boot!:D If it's any profession that's over-paid it's them & lawyers.

[rugratatheart]

Reply to Special Ed (although this is what we called the slower students in my school - did your name just stick?)

I'm a Homeowner and you don't pay for what you get all the time. That's why we have to do our homework as Homeowners and that's why I'm here on this board. I'm here to learn because I've learned not to listen to everything I'm told...e.g. recently a Carrier Salesperson came to my home and told me that the unit that I wanted to install was not made and is not available. Well, I happened to know that it was a current model and was available. He wanted to sell me a Puron system that was $4000. more.

It's a shell game out there and as a Homeowner, you better know what you're putting in your home. And you better know the products as well. With the internet, we have a better ability to do that.

By the way, Special Ed, Mike Diamond estimated a regulator at about $900. to me. I got it installed for $260. by another licensed Plumber, who didn't have a monogrammed shirt and glossy painted truck. And I paid for what I got. So next time you think about insulting me and questioning why I haven't been on this board to post, it's because I've been at work producing a film that you'll want to see in the future. Even though we make good money, we still don't like getting ripped off. So I take to time to investigate a large purchase such as an air condition. I hope you can understand that. The fact that you're sitting here posting is because you're not working, because maybe you've give out the $900. estimates, when they should have been $260...hmmm.


Originally posted by special ed

Originally posted by rugratatheart
Very interesting. I live not far from the area that this hidden camera was shot and have found that the Mike Diamond people are extremely dishonest. I had them estimate a plumbing repair in my home and couldn't believe the price...I guess someone has to pay for the paint job on their trucks and their uniforms.

Dishonest because they're expensive? Well, ya pay for what ya get.

I've noticed Rugrat hasn't posted anything since.... She's probably a troll.... And a doctor to boot!:D If it's any profession that's over-paid it's them & lawyers.

[Special Ed]

Don't know where you're at but where I'm at it's almost 10p.m.

What I hate, Rugrat, is when people complain about price.... Did you know most A/C co.'s out there average only a 31/2% profit margin? Would you like to know what McDonald's is? Or how about movie studios?

You see, everyone else on the planet are allowed to have a 15-20% profit margin - unless, of course, your in plumbing, A/C or some other kind of service industry. Then you're dishonest or ripping someone off. In fact, Rugrat, I think paying $8.50 a movie is a rip-off since most of 'em suck & the people that write, produce & act in them are waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid.

Not that it really matters, though. I actually like what I do but I also expect to get paid accordingly for it. Actors, on the other hand, in all reality offer very little to society other than waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over-priced entertainment.
























Oh, BTW, what's the name of the movie? I think I'd want to go see it.... During matinee times, of course. :D

[rugratatheart]

I was simply responding to your pit bull attack on me being a Troll and possibly a Doctor or Lawyer.

I don't set the movie prices, but you do set your prices. Movie prices are set and published, but Contractor pricing sometimes is set by area and size of house...you can't argue with that one. Who's dishonest now?

Don't insult a homeowner for wanting to know about an expensive investment or questioning an estimate. The fact that I questioned my plumbing repair/estimate saved me $600. I earned the money and I'd like to keep it in my pocket.

So, I'm thrilled that there are hidden camera investigations that expose dishonest Contractors. At some point, we all get caught paying a little more than we should have in any business, car repairs, roofing, etc. But if we're armed with the information up front and can ask the right questions, then the chances of this happening are greatly lessened.

You can call me all the names you want, but I would probably see right through you immediately with the knowledge that I have now.

[dave82323]

Mike Diamond is just like George Brazil Services, A bunch of crooks charging crazy prices saying there better than others. there is enough work out there where you dont have to be a crook unless you are greedy, and greed is no excuse..

[rasmussen6880]

expect to be recored on every job and you wont ever end up on t.v. funny how that works

[Special Ed]

Originally posted by rugratatheart
I was simply responding to your pit bull attack on me being a Troll and possibly a Doctor or Lawyer.

I don't set the movie prices, but you do set your prices. Movie prices are set and published, but Contractor pricing sometimes is set by area and size of house...you can't argue with that one. Who's dishonest now?

Don't insult a homeowner for wanting to know about an expensive investment or questioning an estimate. The fact that I questioned my plumbing repair/estimate saved me $600. I earned the money and I'd like to keep it in my pocket.

So, I'm thrilled that there are hidden camera investigations that expose dishonest Contractors. At some point, we all get caught paying a little more than we should have in any business, car repairs, roofing, etc. But if we're armed with the information up front and can ask the right questions, then the chances of this happening are greatly lessened.

You can call me all the names you want, but I would probably see right through you immediately with the knowledge that I have now.



I apologize for calling you a troll, it was inappropriate.

And you're right, we do set our own prices - to an extent. We still have to pay for that part we replaced, the tech that did the job, the people in the office &, as you so poignantly pointed out, that vehicle we drive to your house. After all that has been paid we still have to make a profit, for if we don't we go out of business. And most co.'s settle for a dismal 31/2-4% profit at that.

Now, I'm not a plumber so I don't know if that part that was replaced was over-priced or not; however, my intuition tells me it probably was. But that's not what I'm challenging, nor was I the only person here to post a challenge to your OP. Agreed?

Still, I want to know: What's the sin in aspiring for a 15-20% profit rather than a paltry 3-4% PM (like McDonald's, et. al.)? And what's the name of your movie? Is it another Rugrats movie? I do have kids, you know.

[key]

I can only say that I see this all the time..everything from one man show companies to commissioned based inexperienced large tech companies...
P.S.
Alot of the time if I am in the neighbourhood and encounter a call like this, I only charge a small monetary amount to cover my gas... This goes along way in referrals
P.S.S.
FYI...I have encountered approximately 12 calls like this in the past 3 months...We no longer use wire connectors in our installs..We attach the low voltage directly to the contactor with a STAKE-ON.

[Edited by key on 07-22-2005 at 08:55 AM]