Basic Advice Needed

[tbooher]

Hello. I am really impressed with the knowledge many of you have on the site and am wondering if I can get some help.

Our home just survived hurricane Dennis (Florida) and it has been impossible to cool the home below 80 degrees. ARS the ("On time repair guys") came a day late and charged $324.00 to find a leak (10 min) and put 3lb freon in the system. They said the leak was with two king valves -- they want $604.00 to replace these.

My question is simple: I am wondering if I should have the repair done, or if I should get a new condenser unit. What other problems might there be?

My compressor (inside unit) is only two years old while my condenser outside unit is about 10 years old.

Also, do these prices represent fair market value? Should I go with the big company, or is there another way to find good help. I am out of the area now (in the military) and have to get the work done for the folks back home, so I can't interview people personally.

Regards,

Tim

[bama 101]

we are not allowed to comment on prices. But you might want another opinion

[mo-flo]

i would probably get estimates for replacement of condenser...that's my opinion.I would like to say thanx to all you military personnel for the job you people are doing.

[dash]

Sorry.Prices are not allowed,against the rules.


Charging full "leak search " price ,for something so esy to find,is kinda hard to take.Now on the positive side if you do the repair and there's other leaks,they'll likely do a second search for free.

I call and discuss the charges,and see if they'll do beter.

If not get a second opinion.


10 year old unit condenser ,has the compressor in it.In Florida ,on the coast,likely a heat pump,close call to repair or replace.Replacing is the safer bet,new warranty etc.

Should be matched to the indoor unit,by brand and models.


What city are you ,we may know a great contractor in your area.

[travisfl]

Originally posted by tbooher
ARS I'd suggest another opinion from a company with a better BBB record.

Military? Destin? Fort Walton Beach, etc?
http://www.nwfl.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=11001648

[tbooher]

sorry about asking on prices -- didn't see that in the rules -- but i didn't look at them too closely. just trying to do the right thing. my house is in Mary Esther Florida (near Hurlburt Field Florida).

What are King Valves -- my main intent in asking price information is that since I am away from my house -- I can't see the problem -- I don't know what I big deal this is. To me a $600 repair means -- major problem -- is this a major problem? Does a 'King Valve' problem mean that other problems are on the way.

[tbooher]

thanks for the bbb reference -- i had no idea -- since I am away from family I went with a big company, but I can get internet over here -- so I should check that out. work is pretty demanding and we have to share computers so I don't have lots of time to do research -- but bbb is a good quick check.

Regards,

tim

[bama 101]

No a king valve is the connection point where refrigerant is added and where pressure reaings are taken not to major although before going to far and saying to much he didn't take enough time for me to say that the job was done right

[travisfl]

Originally posted by tbooher
What are King Valves...Does a 'King Valve' problem mean that other problems are on the way.More likely the service tech was describing your condenser's service valves. A "King valve" is a specific term used to describe a particular application, and you wouldn't be likely to have two of them.

http://www.longviewweb.com/serport.htm

Your leak could be something as simple as leaking schrader cores in the service valves, or even a loose cap...which is why you need another opinion.

[NormChris]

First of all, residential systems do not have "king valves". Commercial systems when they have them only have one king valve never two. Either they are not telling the truth or don't know their stuff regarding that item.

Although we do not discuss prices here I suggest you call another company in your area. Is that a hint or what?

[bama 101]

i agree chris but the instructor at alocal college was teaching some student that all valves were king valves so he could have been the poor student.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by bama 101
i agree chris but the instructor at alocal college was teaching some student that all valves were king valves so he could have been the poor student.



There is a great deal of HVAC mythology taught in our tech school programs.

Not to mention the HVAC textbooks.

[bama 101]

And to think they didn't read the books but i'm sure glad he wasn't my teacher

[tbooher]

so these condenser valves could just be a part? is there a lot involved in changing them out? am i going to have to get all new freon afterwards?

Thanks,

Tim

[bama 101]

the refrigerant will need to be recovered and the valves changed out and then the same refrigerant can be weight back in

[travisfl]

The service valves are brazed into the system, and they aren't user servicable. You'd have to evacuate the system to recover the refrigerant, and then replace the valves and recharge. This is pretty uncommon. Most leaks in this area are caused by leaky valve cores which are easily replaceable....almost like changing the valve core in your tires.

[westcoast941]

King valve are often a generic term (like Kleenex is to tissue paper or freon is to refrigerent) used by many techs for your access valves, where we place our gauges on to get pressure readings.

They can leak from something as minor as valve cores (mentioned above although do not try and tighten or repair yourself, very high presure) or the caps. A sealed system repair would not be needed but could have been repaired by the tech within a few minutes. The connection of the body of the valve to the refrigerent tubing of the condensing unit could be leaking. This is very involved.

Since you are not home, find a representative you trust family or neighbor to act in your behalf should you decide to get another opinion or you call the compnay back (when things slow down after the hurricane) to explain to this person even to demonstrate the size of the leak at these valves. If the leak is large that you will loose the refrigerent charge within this yr, soap bubbles should pick it up easily

IMHO anytime such a large expense was incured a detailed report should have been offered you.

Realize the techs in your area are running ragged as more A/Cs are coming online and failing after the power outages. Hence the reason for the blow (fill) and go. Not excusable but it happens. I could understand you prefering not to spend anymore money with them.

[Edited by westcoast941 on 07-16-2005 at 11:35 PM]

[tinknocker service tech]

tim
first thank you for taking care of us. my son will be be going there in dec.
i am missing something here. you said it doesnt cool properly after the hurican can through. did it work properly before. service valves or as they put it you king valves( witch you dont have) dont nornaly just leak. they have caps on the that can be tightened down to prevent any seepage over time. if the unit stopped cooling after the storm i would tend to think something else is going on or there is a leak some where else.cant talk prices on here but ten min is a bit much and try to find a better company
call them and complain about the price for the leak check also.

[aircooled53]

The option would be yours.
But, as many of the others have suggested,get another opinion.

This service task of replacing (king valves)or pump down valves,is not a 1 hour job.
What you have to weigh is the cost of repairs and what your average cost of electricity usage with this unit (vs) the replacment cost and the amount of savings you will receive with installing a more efficent unit.

Option #1 Service/Repair = 604.00

Option #2 Retro-fit New Condenser= Savings-$$$$$

The installation of new condenser will save you money ever month with lower energy cost of operation.

[aircooled53]

The option would be yours.
But, as many of the others have suggested,get another opinion.

This service task of replacing (king valves)or pump down valves,is not a 1 hour job.
What you have to weigh is the cost of repairs and what your average cost of electricity usage with this unit (vs) the replacment cost and the amount of savings you will receive with installing a more efficent unit.

Option #1 Service/Repair = 604.00

Option #2 Retro-fit New Condenser= Cost+Savings-$$$$$

The installation of new condenser will save you money ever month with lower energy cost of operation.