is anyone honest?

[madmark]

this may be the wrong forum but i need to vent. second day waiting for the pool heater "repair" company to come and do a warranty repair. they were the manufacturers recommended company. the pressure switch blew the diaphragm and busted the switch clean in two. found the problem in about 20 seconds. jumped out switch and plugged access fitting in about 6 minutes. company was coming yesterday after 2 pm (!) called at 4:30 to inquire and was told " we work til we're finished, we don't quit at 5:00 you know." needless to say - no show. called this morning and told call back at 9. called back and told call back after 12. called back and told "tech was in your area at 12:30 but it was raining so he moved on. he"ll be there after 2 (!) why not just be honest? i've been in service / repair for almost 20 years. it is always better to just be up front with people. most people would rather hear a hard truth than lines of b.s., wouldn't you? wouldn't you rather hear" we are really busy as it is a seasonal business, we cant get ther until - fill in the blank - and at least you know where you stand. by the way 3:15 and still no repair man on the horizon... i guess another phone call whew! thanks

[millerman]

Not a matter of honesty. How about integrity? Things happen and you should have gotten a call that they were running late. I would call the company and ask for a firm date and time and if they don't show again I would contact the manufacter and inform them of the contractors inability to help you. They may have another dealer to help you. Good luck.

[smokin68]

See it all the time....a piss poor way of doing business IMO. The only time they use the phone to call you and let you know what's up is when they have your bill ready......

[Irishmist]

We know how we feel to be jerked around. It is a safe bet that our customers feel the same way. I try my best to give people the benefit of the doubt, probably being in service business myself. But, if they don't deliver on what THEY'VE told me to expect, h i s t o r y. I would also call the manufacturer and tell them about their 'recommended' contractor. Very frustrating but you would need to let them know the circumstances.

[stevio]

Call the manufacturer and let them know what you told us and tell them it is unacceptable. Then ask for a different service company.

[dec]

Yep its not right ....they should let you know. Might be one of those deals where its warranty so they wont be making much and their customers come first. If it is warranty ,how come its not original installers coming out ....install but dont fix? yep not right but like a lot , take on warranty only as something when your out of work on your own stuff being it usally pays crap.

[tpa-fl]

Is it me, or is bad service plaguing businesses in general (not just HVAC or construction)? It seems like there is no such thing as customer service anymore. Short of a 5-star hotel, I've given up all hope of finding such a thing anymore. I guess the Wal-Mart mentality (cheap, cheap, cheap, no customer service) is spreading like the plague.

[dec]

Think a lot is due to more wanting something for nothing. It makes the better stuff so higher priced that most wont pay that much. When the cheap stuff or cheap install goes bad the owner always claims he was willing to pay more for it done right........well now that it didnt work I would pay more.

[neophytes serendipity]

Originally posted by tpa-fl
Is it me, or is bad service plaguing businesses in general (not just HVAC or construction)? It seems like there is no such thing as customer service anymore. Short of a 5-star hotel, I've given up all hope of finding such a thing anymore. I guess the Wal-Mart mentality (cheap, cheap, cheap, no customer service) is spreading like the plague.

Cheap consumers are the cause. Wal*Mart is just delivering what consumers that shop there want. I do not shop there.

Same thing in HVAC and construction. No one wants to spend any money. That should be evident by the outcropping of DIY HVAC websites and storefronts. Look at your average tract home filled with the cheapest stuff the builder can get, yet sold for as much as possible.

Then they complain when it breaks or doesn't work right.

[jared]

Service in general has become bery poor. Few seem to care--and I am talking about ALL service industries. As long as people are still paying that is good enough I guess. It's really sad. My favorite--- " I called five companies for an estimate, and only two bothered to show up."

[dhvac]

i have landed more than a few changeouts just because i was there when i said i would be

and if i was running even 5 min late i called to let them know

[amigadude]

I don't think it is the consumer who is the problem, but probably the reverse. Case in point:

When I last moved in '98 every service person I called was too busy to help. Lots of no return calls, broken appointments, etc... since business (the economy) was booming. The few ones I talked to with integretity made it very clear - they had a backlog of big $$$$ customers waiting, so they had little time for my peanut work. I had my best luck with the small guys who were just starting out.

Skip forward a few years - The economy went into the toilet as we came in the 00's. Guess what - some of those companies who were too busy to keep an appointment were now calling me. Others, thankfully, went out of business.

Today the economy, in some places, is getting a bit better and we are keeping things (houses, cars, etc..) longer so we need service. Service businesses are staying busy, in some areas, and lousy business ethics take hold again.

Personally, I never did and never will tolerate lousy service. I take everyone at their word, if you say you are coming after 2pm then I know that you could get caught somewhere. But, I expect a call that day apologizing and trying to reschedule. No call from them, no call from me except to the manufacturer to complain. I'd move on to the next name on the list, or just do it myself.

The ONLY possible exceptions to my rule are with a few highly recommended 1-man shows, who obviously do not have an office staff. Otherwise any 'business' should have better practices.

[jdenyer]

I'm a one man company, and I call my customers if I'm gonna be late, it's only common courtesy. Of course if a customer can't keep an appointment I expect them to call me and let me know as well.

[madmark]

please understand something, I am in the same industry as all (most) of you. I was in the service / install business for a while. Now i am in the chief engineer for a University in NYC. My managers always fix their mouths to lie to the customer to cover any unforseen problem that pops up and it almost always comes back to them and they come off looking foolish & inept. I never take that approach for reasons i mentioned in my first post. I wish i had a dime for every time i heard "finally someone took the time to explain it to me, now i understand what's going on". with very few exceptions are people still dissatisfied after that.
I have been trying to get up the rocks to go it on my own for some time now, and start a service/install company and I see a real need for the kind of upfront honesty that we are discussing, am I naive and people don't care or what? I know I care, but there seems to be a proliferation of B.S. ers out there who are making a living just as well as others.
pool heater update - the "servicemen" finally showed. They knew absolutely nothing about what they were looking at. Didn't know where the press. switch was located and after I showed them they installed it with no thread sealant. I had to tell him to remove it & seal the threads and reinstall it. tries to start the heater with the cover off - (door switch). I point it out and tell him to press that switch. -swear to god- he begins pressing it bbq lighter style and says " is this the ignition?- i tell him to get out of the way and i test it to verify it works. all ok. WTF? A call to the mfr. is definitely in order.

Sorry for the longwindedness and thanks for the replies...

[dnt]

I have decided to add another person to the payroll after reading this thread, their title will be scheduling coordinator, their responsibility will be to contact each and evry customer with a tech status update. I am thinking that truck mounted web cams would also be good, so the customer can watch the tech as he completes the project ahead of his. I figure it will add about 250 bucks to each billable job but all consumers will be willing to pay extra no problem since my service will be above and beyond anyone elses I am sure. I am considering also adding a training coordinator my techs will be fully educated on each and every little quirky poolheater/AC unit etc. now this will add approx. 1500 bucks to each billable job but I can see a huge demand for that RIGHT Just think of how good it will feel to have a tech that does not even have to look at your system but maybe for five minutes and knows more about the quirky little thing than you do after studying it for years, well worth the dollars!!!!!!!!!!!. I am also getting together the bankruptcy papers as they will be needed very soon LOL.

[madmark]

i don't think your getting my point - three days to respond to a call is unacceptable. if you can't respond for a period of time, i'm a big boy and understand that their job is seasonal, the demand is high, and my little warranty job is of low or no priority to them. just tell me that. I just innstalled the heater 1 month ago and have not had "years to study it". warranty repair should have tipped you off. I noticed that you are not listed as a professional member, checked your profile - "Sheet metal worker"? how many trucks do you have exactly? and the size of your office staff? know what, i would suggest that your snide comments would indicate that YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, not the solution.

[Edited by madmark on 07-14-2005 at 11:05 AM]

[dec]

Yep think your right with the Walmart mentallity, had to take a battery back this morning for warranty, the streets going into the parking lot were packed cars turning in. Could not beleive how busy it was that early in the morning of people looking for good deals. Not like I wasnt too. Now one guy was trying to make me jump through hoops to prove the battery was bad, ignored him and asked a young kid standing there, he went to the manager of auto department and came back a minute later with a new battery. I asked if it was common on those batteries going bad that quick.......his answer yep we get a ton back. Hummmm...now Im asking is this just like the water heaters, pay for better warranty but there pretty much the same water heater. He says ya.....I didnt know that about water heaters. Told him I didnt know that about batteries lol. Well ok got what I paid for , wasnt a cheap battery but thinking I didnt want to pay what a automotive parts house wants. Yep that Walmart mentallity.

[dnt]

now madman seems like you really are mad LOL I am just here to have a bit of fun (sorry if it was at your expense, when I read your post I thought you were joking and I was just joking around back at you) feel free to vent I have fairly thick skin, being in the construction industry requires it. I have already called the hall to check on signing up for a sensitivity training class. Quote from cowboy guide to life "If it don't seem like it's worth the effort, it probably ain't"

[dx]

As a contractor (not HVAC), I can tell you it is rarely the homeowner's fault. Cheapness least of all. The cheapest Toyota is often more reliable than the most expensive Mercedes. Enough said. If you can't do a job well for a given price, tell the HO politely that your cost of doing business does not allow you to do a good job at that price and therefore you decline. If you can't live with the practical arrangements (time of work, access to the property, etc.), likewise you should refuse the job. I have refused a job based on my allergies (pets) and the people appreciated my honesty so much, they referred others to me. Like in any profession, there are good, bad and in-between people. A lot of contractors, in my experience, are bad businesspeople and it goes down from there. Being disorganized and poor planners leads to idle time, under-quoting, losing money, etc. Then they try to make it up by rushing jobs, cutting corners, etc. and things spiral out of control.
As for manufacturers, they vary as well. Being big and successful is no guarantee of being good. I had an issue with an AOSmith water heater that the tech people at the manufacturer had no clue how to solve. But they each were quick to give "the correct answer", which depended on who I talked to and were all wrong. It was so bad, I had to tell them where certain information was, on their own website. Yes, I did solve it myself, even though I had never done it before. It wasn't rocket science.
No, guys, the customer is not the problem.

[madmark]

no hard feelings d, i can relate being a LARGE ball breaker myself on the job (not supervisory, just i general)
update #2 i neglected to mention the guys broke the switch after they installed it & were finished with the job. I left for 5 minutes as they were cleaning up their tools and came back to water shooting out of the top of my heater. needless to say they only had the one switch on the truck and would get tome first thing this morning. ( this is no effin joke guys, swear on my child) i called at 9 am - "you are the hayward specialist's second stop this morning" called at 12:30 - "for some reason he called and asked that his service tickets be reversed, he will be there after 2pm" called at 2:45 - "as it turns out we do not have the switch in stock and there is someone going to the supply house to get it and we will be there first thing tomorrow morning" I replied that this better be a joke and i am waiting for a punchline. she became highly indignanat that i would speak to her in that fashion. a voice breaks in and says that he has been monitoring this conversation & what seems to be the problem. I give him the whole story in four part harmony and his reply "what are you so upset about, its only a pool heater" I almost shat! I explain why it is unacceptable to take 4 days to repair something as simple as this unit. after i explain to him that i have 20 years of experience in this field and explain to him that he cannot impress me with any technical jargon he may throw at me his tune changes and becomes very apologetic. informs me that soomeone is coming back from the supply house right now with the part and we will be there in the morning. I told him to tell the driver to come to m house and drop the switch off, I'll install it myself. "no problem, no problem, he'll be right there. 6:15 and no switch yet... the saga continues.

[amigadude]

First, go here --> http://www.poolandspa.com/catalog/category000229.cfm

Probably $25 + shipping

Then here -> http://www.newyork.bbb.org/
File a complaint

Then call Hayward http://www.haywardpool.com/aboutus/locations.html


Remember, it's only a pool heater. :)

[madmark]

thanks for all the info, i signed on to post that the service manager just called me (8:30 pm) to tell me he has the part in his hand & if i want he will drop it off, give him 1 1/2 to 2 hours to get there, or he will send someone in the morning. i told him to drop it off!