installation question

[aw]

How many of you would install equipment that was not purchased through you or your company?

I'm seeing a lot of stuff on ebay and other mail order companies (mostly goodman)on the internet.

[t527ed]

never

[Jultzya]

Zip, notda, none, no way jose, you buy-you install...

I have clients that want quality, not the cheapest!

[dorrmann]

Just a word of advice here...be sure to check the Goodman warranty on their website. It clearly states that there is NO WARRANTY on any products purchased over the internet.

[aw]

It's not for me it's for a friend....really!

Just kidding....I never knew it was possible or would even consider buying one of these. Just like anything else, too much stuff can go wrong and who know what it is or where its been. Just wanted to get some feedback from people in the biz.

[temprite8671]

Originally posted by dorrmann
Just a word of advice here...be sure to check the Goodman warranty on their website. It clearly states that there is NO WARRANTY on any products purchased over the internet.

why do these guys get by on ebay stating there is a full warranty on the goodman stuff they sell! check out ebay!!
isnt this false advertizing!!he is making lots of money!!!!!!

p.s. goodman is not the only a/c stuff on ebay!

[Irascible]

A little birdy that’s in a position to know told me that the warranty exclusion Goodman and perhaps others put in for online purchases is a legal bluff. He said it isn't likely to stand up in court. I believe him. And as far as I’m concerned that would be the just thing anyway. What’s the rational argument for denying warranty coverage to something purchased online? I buy a LOT of things online. Am I not entitled to a warranty because of that fact?

That's not to say I care to be installing someone's recently purchased equipment. But I'd do it for the right price. Of course the right price for me would be the wrong price for him. It would void any attempt at savings he was trying to make.

[BaldLoonie]

As long as you get enough for labor, why not do it. Of course anyone so cheap as to buy through the net isn't going to pay for a good job :(

[neophytes serendipity]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
As long as you get enough for labor, why not do it. Of course anyone so cheap as to buy through the net isn't going to pay for a good job :(

Yup

[travisfl]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
As long as you get enough for labor, why not do it.In many markets disintermediation (the removal of the middleman) via the Internet is driving reduced margins for sellers and lower prices for the end user.

Current impediments to direct-to-consumer sales of HVAC equipment - and air conditioning systems in particular - include:

o The need for specialized tools and skills (tasks such as brazing, system evacuation, charging, etc. comes to mind)

o The requirement for EPA licensing for purchase of CFC refrigerants.

o Complexity of handling warranty and repair issues.

o And then of course, most equipment manufacturers won't currently sell direct to the public.

While I wouldn't be comfortable recommending that my friends and family buy their own system and subcontact out the installation, all it will take is for one or more equipment makers to decide to go 'direct' and for them to design their equipment for installation and subsequent repair by the end user.

This scenario (quick-connect fittings, pre-charged linesets, etc.) is quite common in the marine air conditioning industry, and I know more than one boater that has successfully self-installed a marine air conditioner bought over the 'net.

Could it happen to us?

[neophytes serendipity]

Originally posted by travisfl

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
As long as you get enough for labor, why not do it.In many markets disintermediation (the removal of the middleman) via the Internet is driving reduced margins for sellers and lower prices for the end user.

Current impediments to direct-to-consumer sales of HVAC equipment - and air conditioning systems in particular - include:

o The need for specialized tools and skills (tasks such as brazing, system evacuation, charging, etc. comes to mind)

o The requirement for EPA licensing for purchase of CFC refrigerants.

o Complexity of handling warranty and repair issues.

o And then of course, most equipment manufacturers won't currently sell direct to the public.

While I wouldn't be comfortable recommending that my friends and family buy their own system and subcontact out the installation, all it will take is for one or more equipment makers to decide to go 'direct' and for them to design their equipment for installation and subsequent repair by the end user.

This scenario (quick-connect fittings, pre-charged linesets, etc.) is quite common in the marine air conditioning industry, and I know more than one boater that has successfully self-installed a marine air conditioner bought over the 'net.

Could it happen to us?

Big Box retailer by me used to sell homeowner grade furnaces, cased coils, condensers and precharged linesets. All in stock, on the shelf. If it wasn't there (like 90% or 12 SEER), it could be ordered. These items were sold without needing a license, probably due to the precharged nature of things.

All that went away when a big name HVAC equipment manufacturer came on board offering installs. I suspect that the "home grown" stuff would interfere with the high markup "professionally installed" stuff.

How is it different if a homeowner provides the equipment and only seeks labor services? Many big commercial retailers do the same thing when a new store is built- they cut out the HVAC guys profits on the equipment, sometimes the ductwork, too. Manufacturers of the equipment do not care, they still made the sale.

A GC became a Lennox distributor so he could buy the equipment direct, yet the company I work for is responsible for the installation. At least we supply the ductwork.

One store chain even made the HVAC contractor responsible for duct damage until the store was turned over. The HVAC contractor did not supply the duct, made no profit on the duct material, yet had to replace sections damaged by other trades. How's that for screwy?

One production home builder in my area (they are nationwide, too) provides the lumber and the windows, the carpenter provides only the labor.

Warrantees are just things printed on fancy paper. There is always some wiggle room somewhere.

Most consumers do not care, as long as it is cheap and works right now. How many times have you heard "I am selling the house...".

If the pro's turn up their noses to the work, someone else will do it.

[trane]

If you have nothing to do I can see installing these systems for labor only but why would you do it if there is a list of installs backed up for a month that you sold the equipment for. When I get these calls I tell them when I get slow we will look at it and so far its never been that slow.

[Senior Tech]

I'll install their equipment when the local restaurant let's me bring in my own eggs to be fried....nope, I'm lying, not even then.

[tinknocker service tech]

never happen
dont buy from no install
next you want me to warrenti it too

[billygoat22]

You can buy all you want to, and can ask all you want to, but no ones obliged to help you at your price.





And people wonder why you can't get good help anymore? Equipment is a commodity, labor IS NOT. You cut commodity costs by cutting production costs, you cut labor costs by getting cheaper (lower quality) labor.

[duc dowg]

I would never do that. I dont know anyone that would

[amickracing]

I dont' have much say over it in our company, but I don't see nothing wrong with it. Just add the $$$ you'd make if you sold the equipment to the bid, some extra labor... make a good ammount from it. Prolley wouldn't get it anyway... but ya never know.

[dexman]

I priced one once for a guy. He got sticker shock and never called again. If the price is right, why not?

[Jultzya]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
As long as you get enough for labor, why not do it. Of course anyone so cheap as to buy through the net isn't going to pay for a good job :(

Which is exactly why it's easier to say no and go on... rather than have them think you are a theft!
(for charging a reasonable fee)

[twcpipes]

If you want ot look at this situation from a purely business stand point then the question is "why not?"
It is really a very good deal if approached properly.

First you would normally take your equipment, put your price on it and mark it up. Why wouldn't you also mark up what someone else furnishes. Why should you be willing to lose the profit on a portion of a job you are doing. Plus, you get the marked up profit and never even had to pick up the equipment and deliver it. What a deal! Another plus is, since it was bought on the internet, there is no warranty. Just put a fixed hourly rate for warranty calls starting from the day the system went into beneficial use. If the manufacturer won't supply parts, work a deal out with the client for what warranty parts would cost. And, Wallah, what a deal!

Everyone *****es they wouldn't touch a job like that. Well if you want it stopped, then bid them like above and see how long it takes for it to stop. Otherwise, do the deal and run to the bank. But hurry before the smart client who though he was saving money figures out how bad the deal really was.
Good luck.

[Irishmist]

We can all agree that we don't like the fact that this situation exists, but reality dictates that it does. If I was faced with the situation of installing a unit such as this versus not having work to do, I really wouldn't have to think about it very long. Under the correct circumstances, I don't have a problem doing this work. We all know the drawbacks, i.e. warranty is carried by the equipment provider, we assume no responsibility for any problems associated with the unit, etc. If I can get top dollar for my labor, then why not? Guys, it's gonna happen anyway, and we're addressing the wrong problem! What we should be doing is getting in the faces of the distributors that insist on selling directly to the public.

Yes, we are a vital part of the process. No, an installation cannot take place without us. But, is it a viable source of income, absolutely! And, I have been able to generate additional work as a result of working with customers under these circumstances.