noisey scroll

[the pict]

I have just fitted a new maneurop danfoss scroll compressor running R22 which is very noisey, new contactor and over load, and I am now charging in the recovered R22 however on staring up its very noisey even when taking gas discharge is hot and suction side is coming back cold ok the comp top is very hot too hot to touch, lowside will pull right down but high side hovers around 100 psi could I have a partial restriction both valves at mid seat during charge process any ideas guys
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[milkyway]

need pressures, hi and low, superheat and subcool as well as inside and outside temp, also what is temp split?
as for the top of the scroll compressor, the top is and asts as a dome, it will be hot,

[the pict]

Hi and thanks HS is 100psi LS is 5 psi SH is 15C, no idea what the SC is as the AHU is 2 storeys up and I was working single handed today and did not feel to happy about leaving it running when it's making such a racket in case the damn thing squeels to a halt, like I said I do not have all the Gas back in because of the noise, and the term temprature split I don't understand sorry and all I can give you is the outside temp @8c inside temp will be 20 c give or take a few Degs c
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[timebuilder]

Let us know what you find when you go back.

What was the failure of the first compressor? Did you do an acid test? Clean the expansion device? Replace the LL dryer?

You are doing the right thing by trying to find what killed the first compressor.

[the pict]

Cheers guys the first comp I think judging by the top which was burnt black ran a bearing I was going to cut the top off but it was collected as scrap before I got a chance, the LS valve stuffing gland had also pissed all the oil out but there as 35 kilo of gas recovered so I am puzzled why did'nt it lose the gas ? any way, New Comp, New contactor, new filter drier, triple vac with OFN each time and left with a holding charge of OFN @200 psi for 48 Hours CC heater was never connected! is now at works OK I did an acid and contaminant on the gas and on the oil check it came out clear, one other thing the twin condenser frames were absolutly choked I had to get the local drain guy in to lance the coils I know all this sounds like a complete lack of maintenance and I agree the guy they usually get for all the frigde stuff just did'nt want to know so it has never been looked at in the last 12 years I welcome any input
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[Ice pro]

Did you change phase rotation?

[the pict]

Ice Pro Yes PR was checked and confirmed it was something that occured to me that it can be something that changes down the line it might well be OK at the point of in take but gets crossed before it goes to the compressor terminals I have checked it all the way down but I never checked the actuall terminals at the comp, should I ?, I have always thought it's not recommended any thoughts
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[aixha1969]

change the phase rotation.

[TMS134]

I'm not sure how much of the refrigerant charge that you got in to it, but having 5 psi suction is not good with scroll compressors. The minumum for operating is 15 psi or else the scrolls will self destruct with not enough refrigerant being compressed between the scroll plates. If you are still charging, maybe pump the refrigerant in with your recovery machine until you get most of the charge in and then restart the compressor.

[TMS134]

Also, don't change the phase rotation as suggested. You have 100 psi discharge and 5 psi suction so that means it is pumping. By reversing rotation, you would have similar pressures and noise.

[timebuilder]

TMS134 is correct. It appears your rotation is fine, based on those pressures.

[the pict]

Thanks again guys the main puzzle for me is before I started it today the pressures had equalized at around 100psi both gauges, however as I ran it and the pressure began to rise on the HS and drop on the low side it did not seem to take any more gas and the noise was much the same throughout, but when I stopped it, and as I believed began to shut the HS service valve I heard a rush of gas through the HS line and the LS gauge dropped dramatically to almost a partial vac, so is it possibble that this service valve operates in opposite IE anti clock to close seems odd to me, mind you its not a rotolok on the comp case it's in-line after the tandem condensers meet into a single line, could I have got this backwards should it have been mid seat as the LS rotolok I believed this was a simple shut off isolating valve again your thoughts will be welcome
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[timebuilder]

I'd say you certainly need to feel comfortable with the valve operation. So, confirm that.
From what you have said, you may have a restriction. What type of expansion device is in use?

[the pict]

Expansion device is a TEX 12 from danfoss which in retrospec I should have changed as a matter of course
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[timebuilder]

The behavior you described sounds strikingly like the situation I often find in some Carrier rooftop package units. They use an orifice in each mainifold tube going into the evaporator. When they are restricted, I see similar results. Perhaps you could check the expansion valve for debris, and confirm operation of the service valve, for starters. You might also want to blow dry nitrogen through the plumbing to confirm a clear path for the refrigerant.

[the pict]

Yes I think your dead right there so I will haul the gas out and do a complete pipe work check with OFN
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[timebuilder]

No problem.

My grandfather was from Rutherglen. We are a family that is part of the MacDonald's.

They tore down most of the castle in the 1700's to build a village.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston,_Renfrewshire

[the pict]

Hi Timebuilder your link to Houston Renfrewshire took me back I spent a lot of time around that area and I know it well, the village next to it is Crosslee where I spent my youth working on farms during school holidays, ah the simple life, hard work and long hours but by god I loved every minute
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[timebuilder]

We had a farm for a few years, as well. I would give almost anything to have those days again.

[the pict]

H i all I have had the guy fron the original company out add oil and charge the system was his advice and I will be setting about this on Mon with an outside temp of 15c what sort of working pressures can I aim for to get the SC to 10-15K I have worked out with the help a previous reply I should be around 220 and 70 psig
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[timebuilder]

H i all I have had the guy fron the original company out add oil and charge the system was his advice and I will be setting about this on Mon with an outside temp of 15c what sort of working pressures can I aim for to get the SC to 10-15K I have worked out with the help a previous reply I should be around 220 and 70 psig
Pict

The best approach after all other matters have been addressed is to verify airflow and the proper readings for superheat (as controlled by the txv) and the subcooling for the unit in question.

In the states, we are familiar with using Fahrenheit readings. If you prefer ° C, perhaps one of our Canadian posters will chime in.

Good luck!

[just_opinion]

Should we need to know how many lbs or kg of R-22 did he add before he run this puppy.

Maybe he added only 1 kg of R-22 on this 10 tons or so unit AND run it.

So let not jump to the metering devices and all kind of restrictions.

How much R-22 did you add prior to running this puppy ?????

Or better let the pro do the start-up for you like you said on the last post.

[trouble time]

1 kilogram = 2.2 lbs
degrees c x 1.8+32 =degrees f

You should be able to figure the reverse out from this eh!...lol
:cheers::

[chillerout1]

did i read that right? you have two condensers that tie in to a single line, do both start at the same time?or does it act like a two stage system?

[just_opinion]

1 kilogram = 2.2 lbs
degrees c x 1.8+32 =degrees f

You should be able to figure the reverse out from this eh!...lol
:cheers::

So, did he inform us how many lbs or Kg he added to the system prior to running it? I may have missed his post completely.

Because I read all his posts (I think I did). And I gather that he not PRO. He may be a DIY. Thus, according to the rules, we shall not give any advices.

He can apply to the Pro. It is easy. It requires NO KNOWLEDGES. It only requires post counts. I think :whistle:

[the pict]

The ammount removed was 32 Kilo around 70Lbs and I am recharging with this however I feel that 220psig is a bit high given the LS is at best 15psig all I am asking is in your experiance are these figures within acceptable parameters, and for you peace of mind I carry all relevant UK certification,
C&G bs7671 17th edition C&G 2079,but as my remit is electrcal & mechanical and hvac I cannot have all the answers all the time thats why I got the AC engineer in and at £500 a visit I have to be able to justify a further visit,
and as further justification for my enquery take this as an example I have on my desk a copy of BS7671 all 600 odd pages covering the electrical wiring regulations in the UK, now I do not need to know all these off by heart but, I do need to know where to find the relevant regulation for a particular situation so I look it up, knowing where to go for an answer is as good as knowing it, hence my visit here,
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[timebuilder]

The ammount removed was 32 Kilo around 70Lbs and I am recharging with this however I feel that 220psig is a bit high given the LS is at best 15psig all I am asking is in your experiance are these figures within acceptable parameters, and for you peace of mind I carry all relevant UK certification,
C&G bs7671 17th edition C&G 2079,but as my remit is electrcal & mechanical and hvac I cannot have all the answers all the time thats why I got the AC engineer in and at £500 a visit I have to be able to justify a further visit,
and as further justification for my enquery take this as an example I have on my desk a copy of BS7671 all 600 odd pages covering the electrical wiring regulations in the UK, now I do not need to know all these off by heart but, I do need to know where to find the relevant regulation for a particular situation so I look it up, knowing where to go for an answer is as good as knowing it, hence my visit here,
Pict

Not to worry, laddie. You are not yet a known quantity here.

Since you now have 18 posts, just apply for the no-cost Pro membership so folks won't misunderstand where you are coming from.

Folks here won't be familiar with the certs and books you use. The best to hope for is that most guys here know you use 50hz power!

Maybe you could re-state your technical situation in a single post, using US values. Include all the data you can, including the running pressures, suction superheat, liquid line subcooling, outdoor ambient, and indoor wet and dry bulb temps, to start.

And get that pro membership app in. We have a good group here, but we are watchful for the DIY stuff, since that is not a part of our charter.

[the pict]

Hi again, I will put together a summary and post it, in 0F I will also do as you suggest and apply for the professional status, and I completely agree with your position on giving out information that could seriously injure people or worse to some one who has very limited or no knowledge,
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[just_opinion]

Hi again, I will put together a summary and post it, in 0F I will also do as you suggest and apply for the professional status, and I completely agree with your position on giving out information that could seriously injure people or worse to some one who has very limited or no knowledge,
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:cheers:

[the pict]

Hi all well I am finally getting somewhere with this I went and checked the SH but before I started I wanted to check the exp device a tex2 was still at factory setting at 2.5 turns out but after ten turns of the spindle I finnally gave up so is the tex had it
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