L.L. drier in hot gas line???

[BCHtech]

Ok, so in my 10 yrs at this game I have never seen an instance where a LL drier in a hot gas discharge line is either smart or useful.
When reading aruond the web I keep seeing people make references to some york heat pumps,and some gobbldygook about velocities and temperature drops and all kinds of engineering mumbo-jumbo that makes no sense. I think those feild "engineers" have too much useless knowledge.
In my experience the drier [core] always seems to come apart and booger up the entire system prompting a complete change-out of equipment and line set. Can anyone really tell me when or where this would be a good idea?
I mean it does say LIQUID LINE right on the drier.
Just wanna vent my frustration I guess.
:gah:

[karsthuntr]

York uses it as a muffler.

[BCHtech]

Then why not just use a muffler?

[BCHtech]

I guess what im looking for is someone to tell me if I'm wrong about using an LL drier in discharge line.
I have a situation where the compressor has been replaced about a year ago and is now locked rotor. Drier installed 6 inches from compressor in hot gas line. Customer seems to think I am off my rocker for suggesting the last guy was wrong in doing that.(then why did you call me? but thats another story I guess.)

[Diceman]

Bad idea. Seen it done as a mistake, someone probably thought a muffler was a drier and when he changed the compressor put a drier in.

[VTP99]

Bad idea. Seen it done as a mistake, someone probably thought a muffler was a drier and when he changed the compressor put a drier in.

:ditto:

[wolfdog]

It seems like a dumb idea but the York part number is a drier, not a muffler, on some of the heat pumps. It is usually the 4 and 5 ton where I have seen it.

[BCHtech]

I was trying to keep the story short but I'll get into it.
The unit is a 5ton Goodman heat pump, 9211 serial, bare bones. I'm trying to get across to my customer that trying to put a compressor in a unit that is 18+ yrs old, with a drier in the hot gas line is a total waste of time and money. This is a commercial site and they think they can get away on the cheap. He even said "can't I get an empty R-22 unit?" WTF?... the internet is truly a double edge sword folks.
He wants me to confirm contamination under a standard diagnostic fee...YEAH RIGHT!!!
BTW this is a big national auto parts retailer, they gotta be makin' money on that chinese junk they're selling. Or, maybe they're making money on the shamrocks... hint.
Anyway, I quoted them on an entire system change-out with new line set. hopefully the do it, if not, I hope my boss stays away from it like the plague! (we all know what happens next)

[beenthere]

On the York units. The filter drier is a solid core drier. If someone replaces it with any other type of drier, there will be problems.

[simplyrollin]

Right now, I would replace the compressor if they insisted, correct the drier location, and make some money. Just let them know its not the best decision.

[bja105]

The only thing better than getting paid for a compressor or system changeout is getting paid for a compressor AND a system changeout. These big companies do stupid stuff all the time. Stupid stuff like putting thousands of dollars in repairs to make it right, then do a planned replacement, because its been costing a lot in repairs. Don't worry, you'll get paid either way, or both.

Unless, like us, installers do the changeouts but you do the compressors, and you get comission, then talk them into the changeout!

[timebuilder]

Bad idea. Seen it done as a mistake, someone probably thought a muffler was a drier and when he changed the compressor put a drier in.

I have seen that, too.

Useless.

[timebuilder]

On the York units. The filter drier is a solid core drier. If someone replaces it with any other type of drier, there will be problems.

True. You don't want the little round white balls.....

[Diceman]

On the York units. The filter drier is a solid core drier. If someone replaces it with any other type of drier, there will be problems.

I heard from a York dealer on another site that their quality control dept was disbanded after JCI took em over. They have had loads of leaky evap coils and furnace issues with noisy combustion motors and leaking collector boxes.

[ALComfortmaker]

I heard from a York dealer on another site that their quality control dept was disbanded after JCI took em over. They have had loads of leaky evap coils and furnace issues with noisy combustion motors and leaking collector boxes.

I just had the pleasure of touring the plant in Norman, OK and Wichita, KS and I can tell you that they have intensified their quality control. They fully admit they had problems but JCI has made major strides to improve the equipment. They closed a coil manufacturing plant in Mexico because of quality issues and are now making the coils with American employees in the USA.

[BCHtech]

True... getting paid twice sounds great, but who wants to deal with the warranty issues until the company decieds to replace the system. We all know as techs that murphy's law loves to whip us more than any other trade.
I'm just trying to save everybody a little time and money.
No, I don't work on commissions(wish I did), and I will be the unfortunate one to be doing the change-out too. Putting a 5 ton air handler 16 ft up through a drop ceiling is always a good time, especially with all the shelves and stuff in the way!

[Diceman]

I just had the pleasure of touring the plant in Norman, OK and Wichita, KS and I can tell you that they have intensified their quality control. They fully admit they had problems but JCI has made major strides to improve the equipment. They closed a coil manufacturing plant in Mexico because of quality issues and are now making the coils with American employees in the USA.

How long have you worked for York?:grin2:

[ALComfortmaker]

How long have you worked for York?:grin2:

Just not real fond of trashing reputations on I heard it from here type of proof that is not true. And I have never been employed by York. I am an independent contractor.

[Diceman]

Just not real fond of trashing reputations on I heard it from here type of proof that is not true. And I have never been employed by York. I am an independent contractor.

It is true, wake up.
I know guys who installed hundreds of coils that subsequently leaked, and have now found many of the furnaces have collector box and comb motor problems and the fact they did dump quality control and are now bringing it back.
York has had mgmt problems going way back, way back, if you have been in the biz for any lenght of time you would know that.:whistle:

[ga-hvac-tech]

I was trying to keep the story short but I'll get into it.
The unit is a 5ton Goodman heat pump, 9211 serial, bare bones. I'm trying to get across to my customer that trying to put a compressor in a unit that is 18+ yrs old, with a drier in the hot gas line is a total waste of time and money. This is a commercial site and they think they can get away on the cheap. He even said "can't I get an empty R-22 unit?" WTF?... the internet is truly a double edge sword folks.
He wants me to confirm contamination under a standard diagnostic fee...YEAH RIGHT!!!
BTW this is a big national auto parts retailer, they gotta be makin' money on that chinese junk they're selling. Or, maybe they're making money on the shamrocks... hint.
Anyway, I quoted them on an entire system change-out with new line set. hopefully the do it, if not, I hope my boss stays away from it like the plague! (we all know what happens next)

Big corps are driven by accounting rules that make no sense what-so-ever to anyone other than the bean counters...

I would find a generic muffler that can handle the load, R&R the compressor, be SURE I installed a LL drier in the LL, get my $$$ and go on to the next job.

[bagtek]

I heard from a York dealer on another site that their quality control dept was disbanded after JCI took em over. They have had loads of leaky evap coils and furnace issues with noisy combustion motors and leaking collector boxes.

My ears were ringing. :grin2:

I assume I would be that guy. So here it is first hand. I was a "York Guy" for a long time, even prior to going into business. For 7-8 years I sold York in my own business, I literally averaged 1 warranty service call a year on systems I installed. All minor stuff. Then JCI took over. That number is now in the hundreds. I haven't sold York in a year, but the problems still haunt me. And while it's nice that York closed the plant in Mexico, did they happen to tell you they were aware of the Mexican coils being defective and knowing continued to sell the bad coils until the new coil manufacturing was running and online? I got this info from a JCI employee I know. I installed 4 coils in 1 customers home. The first one I figured was a fluke and I just replaced it, when the second one leaked, York insisted the problem was fixed and the new coil (the third one) was good. It leaked. The fourth one was an Aspen. Problem solved. This all happened in just over a years time and on my dime. To date I have probably replaced 40 coils. I'm not going to go on and on, but trust me, the coils were just the beginning of the problems. :whistle:

[Ironman 1]

:gah:the facts are that the velocity of the gas and the rapid changes in temp of the core of that dryer will cause the breakdown and disintegration of the interior of that drier. with no other stops all the way to the TXV or what ever expansion device may be in that piece of equipment. Bye-Bye compressor in most cases. HIGH SUPERHEAT will take out the weak windings and thermal resets.:gah:

[Diceman]

My ears were ringing. :grin2:

I assume I would be that guy. So here it is first hand. I was a "York Guy" for a long time, even prior to going into business. For 7-8 years I sold York in my own business, I literally averaged 1 warranty service call a year on systems I installed. All minor stuff. Then JCI took over. That number is now in the hundreds. I haven't sold York in a year, but the problems still haunt me. And while it's nice that York closed the plant in Mexico, did they happen to tell you they were aware of the Mexican coils being defective and knowing continued to sell the bad coils until the new coil manufacturing was running and online? I got this info from a JCI employee I know. I installed 4 coils in 1 customers home. The first one I figured was a fluke and I just replaced it, when the second one leaked, York insisted the problem was fixed and the new coil (the third one) was good. It leaked. The fourth one was an Aspen. Problem solved. This all happened in just over a years time and on my dime. To date I have probably replaced 40 coils. I'm not going to go on and on, but trust me, the coils were just the beginning of the problems. :whistle:
And here I thought you were banned.:grin2:

[ALComfortmaker]

It is true, wake up.
I know guys who installed hundreds of coils that subsequently leaked, and have now found many of the furnaces have collector box and comb motor problems and the fact they did dump quality control and are now bringing it back.
York has had mgmt problems going way back, way back, if you have been in the biz for any lenght of time you would know that.:whistle:

Diceman --you did it again..you know guys--I am one of those guys who have installed York and had trouble..I don't need to wake up ...I know they had major problems and if you had read I posted "They fully admit they had problems but JCI has made major strides to improve the equipment."

On the other hand mr bagtek is giving credible testimony of his own personal experience. And this I respect.

I have been around this industry for many years and I have no intention of arguing with you about your hear say experience. And every manufacturer has had trouble with something over the years and hopefully learned from their mistakes.

[Diceman]

Diceman --you did it again..you know guys--I am one of those guys who have installed York and had trouble..I don't need to wake up ...I know they had major problems and if you had read I posted "They fully admit they had problems but JCI has made major strides to improve the equipment."

On the other hand mr bagtek is giving credible testimony of his own personal experience. And this I respect.

I have been around this industry for many years and I have no intention of arguing with you about your hear say experience. And every manufacturer has had trouble with something over the years and hopefully learned from their mistakes.

So its impossible to know/believe- something/everything without experiencing it firsthand?
Is that what you are saying?
I know there was an earthquake in Japan today, even though I wasn't there.

My issue with York goes way back, they have been badly mismanged for years besides their recent quality control fiasco.

[bagtek]

"They fully admit they had problems but JCI has made major strides to improve the equipment."

And every manufacturer has had trouble with something over the years and hopefully learned from their mistakes.

While I agree, it's not the actual problems I have the biggest problem with. Its the way they were handled. Everything is hush-hush until the numbers are so big it can't be hidden anymore. Then there is an admission. I can't count the number of times I was told, "You are the only contractor having this problem, so it must be something you are doing." Had they just owned up to the coil debacle early on, I would have continued selling York with aftermarket coils until it was straightened out. It would have saved everyone involved a lot of aggravation and money. There have been a lot of other problems, but had they owned the coil issue right away instead of denying it, I might still be selling the product. Now I can guarantee I will never sell a York product again. When I finally received acknowledgment from York that there was a coil issue, they already had the Norman plant up and running making the new coils. How long did that take? Because thats at least how long they knew there was a problem and were denying it. :gah:

[Diceman]

:

ummmmmmmmmmm

that sig line of yours......


ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

:whistle:

I dunno

:grin2:

[ALComfortmaker]

While I agree, it's not the actual problems I have the biggest problem with. Its the way they were handled. Everything is hush-hush until the numbers are so big it can't be hidden anymore. Then there is an admission. I can't count the number of times I was told, "You are the only contractor having this problem, so it must be something you are doing." Had they just owned up to the coil debacle early on, I would have continued selling York with aftermarket coils until it was straightened out. It would have saved everyone involved a lot of aggravation and money. There have been a lot of other problems, but had they owned the coil issue right away instead of denying it, I might still be selling the product. Now I can guarantee I will never sell a York product again. When I finally received acknowledgment from York that there was a coil issue, they already had the Norman plant up and running making the new coils. How long did that take? Because thats at least how long they knew there was a problem and were denying it. :gah:


I hate this line too--
"You are the only contractor having this problem, so it must be something you are doing."

Would rather you look me in the eye and tell me you have a problem as well.
Was the denial from York employees or was it from their distributor?

[jrbenny]

That line is used by all OEM. It's in the tech rep handbook.

[beenthere]

That line is used by all OEM. It's in the tech rep handbook.

But you never used it. :bump:

[ga-hvac-tech]

I hate this line too--
"You are the only contractor having this problem, so it must be something you are doing."

Would rather you look me in the eye and tell me you have a problem as well.
Was the denial from York employees or was it from their distributor?

From what I have learned in this business... brand of equipment is secondary to install... we all know that.

Seems to me that the distributor is more important than the brand also... A distributor that works WITH me; rather than trying to game me; is worth doing business with!

[timebuilder]

Last summer, I replaced my first Simplicity board. I thought it was just an anomaly.

In the past month, I found and replaced two Simplicity boards, both with a bad indoor fan output to the contactor.

Looks like these things might be going down the same road as the Carrier RTU boards....

[corny]

What Ive been told by a lot of managers and such of large companies and larger businesses is that its not so much that the business is cheap....its that they are just stupid.

We fix a lot of old 20 and 30 year old junker equipment because the plant or the business has money in the budget for repairs.....but not new equipment purchases.

Funny aint it.....these big businesses.......repair budgets with enough cash to replace the junker that is nickle and diming.....(actually 500.00 and 1000.00) them to death but they just dont have cash in the budget for new equipment replacement.

Thats it though......... pencil pusher in a corporate office....making decisions.....

[lynn comstock]

Coleman http://www.colemanac.com/dealers/ProductPage.asp?id=912&t=r
"Protected Compressor - The hermetic compressor is internally protected against high pressure and temperature by the simultaneous operation of a high pressure relief valve and temperature sensors which stop the compressor if operating temperatures go too high. Both protectors reset automatically. A discharge line solid core filter drier further protects the compressor."

Coleman has been doing this for maybe 20 years. Why? Idunno. When I first saw one I thought it might have been a drier shell used as a muffler. Wrong.

[flange]

As far as I know, the so called muffler is used on york heatpumps as protection in the event of compressor failure. I was told by the folks in norman that it is to prevent damage to the four way valve in the event the compressor munches itself.

As far as the coils, I have one building with over sixty coils in it, installed over the last four years, some badged as york, others luxaire. when they ran out of one they sent me the other. we bought ten to fourteen at a time. so far, zero leakers. we have seen several failed boards, but since adding phase loss protection to all units, that has gone away.

[berg2666]

I was trying to keep the story short but I'll get into it.
The unit is a 5ton Goodman heat pump, 9211 serial, bare bones. I'm trying to get across to my customer that trying to put a compressor in a unit that is 18+ yrs old, with a drier in the hot gas line is a total waste of time and money. This is a commercial site and they think they can get away on the cheap. He even said "can't I get an empty R-22 unit?" WTF?... the internet is truly a double edge sword folks.
He wants me to confirm contamination under a standard diagnostic fee...YEAH RIGHT!!!
BTW this is a big national auto parts retailer, they gotta be makin' money on that chinese junk they're selling. Or, maybe they're making money on the shamrocks... hint.
Anyway, I quoted them on an entire system change-out with new line set. hopefully the do it, if not, I hope my boss stays away from it like the plague! (we all know what happens next)



You said I hope my boss stays away from it...... I can bet that will not happene unless your boss has to go change it out himself. Rememebr behind the desk all they care about is how much money they can make and its all your fault if they dont make the right amount of money.

[Ironman 1]

Somebody please just send 'um their sign!!!!!!!!!!:censored: