Goodman Heat Pump

[oakhurstair]

A friend at another company installed a GPH1549M41AA last summer. Cooling worked fine, but they've had problems all winter with the heat side (it heats the home, but seems to blow cold too long on startup. Factory rep had been out, checked system- refrigerant, superheat all okay, duct has been tested and could find no problems.
First, let me say, I've been in HVACR trade for 38 years. I deal with gas/electrics more than HP's. I am not familiar with this unit (don't really care for Goodmans, their tech support or HP's). Friend has contacted local dealer, factory reps and then wanted me to take a look at it. I wasn't much use; he had no paperwork on unit (sequence of op, what does what, ect), but I said I'd look into it further and thats why I'm here.
Friend, has connected 1st and 2nd stage (solenoid) of compressor circuit. How does that work? We're getting a 24d temp rise across unit. (That seems way low to me). I'm leaning towards EM motor blowing too much air. I'm ol school and haven't dealt with many EM variable speed motors. System is wired from factory yellow to 2, white to 3. Tried (per wiring diagram) moving wires to 4&5; drew more amps thus blowing harder. On the Goodmans, what controls the variable speed? static pressure or temp diff?
I'm still learning and want to help the kid- any ideas?
Appreciate any help!
Shep

[sammy37]

I see your name Oakhurstair, I grew up in a town called Oakhurst in California.
Sounds like he didnt wire the compressor for two seperate stages, the way it's wired, is running on high stage.
Depending on outside temperature and indoor temp, 24 degree split sounds fine, if the unit is running without auxillary heat.
As far as the fan motor goes, is it a true ECM motor, or an x-13?
Does this unit even have an auxillary heat kit installed in it? If so, what size is it?

[Hunter844]

I see your name Oakhurstair, I grew up in a town called Oakhurst in California.
Sounds like he didnt wire the compressor for two seperate stages, the way it's wired, is running on high stage.
Depending on outside temperature and indoor temp, 24 degree split sounds fine, if the unit is running without auxillary heat.
As far as the fan motor goes, is it a true ECM motor, or an x-13?
Does this unit even have an auxillary heat kit installed in it? If so, what size is it?

It's an EEM motor not ECM.

[sammy37]

Ok, so it has an x-13 motor. I know Goodman uses an ECM in the Whirlpool line of package units, just wasnt sure about the 15 seer Goodman line.

[chuckcrj]

Just to clear up a couple things; X13 motor IS an ECM.(Electronically Commutated Motor) How does it control airflow? It is a constant torque motor, not constant airflow like a GE ECM 2.3 VS Motor. When the filter starts loading for example the squirrel cage blower spins easier taking less torque. The motor sees this and speeds up until it is at the torque required by the speed tap it is on. It doesn't hold as close to a set CFM like the VS motor but it does compensate somewhat for various static pressures.

Oakhurstair, what was the temp outside when you measured 24° temp rise? If it was quite cold this may be correct.

This unit needs to be charged in the cooling mode per manufacturer specs.

I would get the blower performance chart for the A/H and with that and static pressure you will be able to determine if it has the correct airflow.

[oakhurstair]

Sammy, only Oakhurst in Calif ,that I know of, bout 40 miles north of Fresno.
OK, so its not a ECM motor, but a EEM motor, is it still a variable speed?
According to wiring diagram on panel, the compressor is a single stage; second stage energizes a solenoid and does what?
It does have heat strips, I beleive 2 for 10KW?
I'm not a dumby; I've worked on enough heat pumps. I understand 1st stage and 2nd stage (compressor and strips); what I don't understand is what the solenoid has to do with the second stage of 3???
Appreciate any response, Thanks
Shep

[oakhurstair]

Ambient temp was 52d

[Hunter844]

Sammy, only Oakhurst in Calif ,that I know of, bout 40 miles north of Fresno.
OK, so its not a ECM motor, but a EEM motor, is it still a variable speed?
According to wiring diagram on panel, the compressor is a single stage; second stage energizes a solenoid and does what?
It does have heat strips, I beleive 2 for 10KW?
I'm not a dumby; I've worked on enough heat pumps. I understand 1st stage and 2nd stage (compressor and strips); what I don't understand is what the solenoid has to do with the second stage of 3???
Appreciate any response, Thanks
Shep

It should be a 2-stage heat/2-stage cool since it's a 4 ton unit

the blower is fixed-speed eem or ecm whatever you want to call it...it's a DC motor non-variable speed.

10kw may be a little light for a 4 ton blower (I assume this would technically be 3rd stage)

Might need to check to see if the thermostat is a multistage capable and is wired correctly.
Kind of information that should be shared in the pro area. If you haven't, please apply.

[sammy37]

Sammy, only Oakhurst in Calif ,that I know of, bout 40 miles north of Fresno.
OK, so its not a ECM motor, but a EEM motor, is it still a variable speed?
According to wiring diagram on panel, the compressor is a single stage; second stage energizes a solenoid and does what?
It does have heat strips, I beleive 2 for 10KW?
I'm not a dumby; I've worked on enough heat pumps. I understand 1st stage and 2nd stage (compressor and strips); what I don't understand is what the solenoid has to do with the second stage of 3???
Appreciate any response, Thanks
Shep

Yep, thats the Oakhurst I lived in, beautiful country.
Like Hunter says, 2 stage heat, 2 stage cool, through the compressor. You need a thermostat that is capable of 2 stages of cooling and 3 stages of heat, your heat strip would be the third stage. Going on what you said in the original post, both stages of the compressor right now are wired together. They are losing the advantage of a 2 stage unit with it being like that.

[oakhurstair]

Sammy and Hunter, appreciate the responses. Understand this should be under the Pro Forums. I don't have enough posts and haven't mailed the form in, so I appreciate the help, but Dustins on his own
Thanks, Shep

[beenthere]

That is a 2 stage compressor. Needs to be checked out slightly differently then a single stage.

But a 24° delta is close to spec in first stage at 52° outdoor temp.

[rickboggs]

I think I would turn my focus to duct design and register selection.

[Cool_Air]

Sammy, only Oakhurst in Calif ,that I know of, bout 40 miles north of Fresno.
OK, so its not a ECM motor, but a EEM motor, is it still a variable speed?
According to wiring diagram on panel, the compressor is a single stage; second stage energizes a solenoid and does what?
It does have heat strips, I beleive 2 for 10KW?
I'm not a dumby; I've worked on enough heat pumps. I understand 1st stage and 2nd stage (compressor and strips); what I don't understand is what the solenoid has to do with the second stage of 3???
Appreciate any response, Thanks
Shep The EEM is more eff. than the psc motor but nothing like a ecm. When the solenoid closes it opens two ports in the scroll letting the ref. unload in the compressor and I think the trane unit has two contactors for two different windings.

[rickboggs]

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related/RS6300008R7%20GPC%20GPH%20M%20R-410A%20Service%20Manual.pdf

[chuckcrj]

The EEM is more eff. than the psc motor but nothing like a ecm. When the solenoid closes it opens two ports in the scroll letting the ref. unload in the compressor and I think the trane unit has two contactors for two different windings.

The words in bold are mostly true, the rest is not.

[oakhurstair]

To all above, appreciate the info, esp Rickboggs! I now have something to go on. As per above; ambient was about 50-52, Dustin said he jumped 1st and 2nd stage, and we were getting a 24d TD. Maybe he didn't or there's a problem with the 2nd stage solenoid.
To the moderators, I'm downloading your paperwork and will get it off to you. Like this forum! An old dog can learn new tricks!
Thanks, Shep

[beenthere]

To the moderators, I'm downloading your paperwork and will get it off to you. Like this forum! An old dog can learn new tricks!
Thanks, Shep


Must have 15 post before you apply. Or the membership committee won't approve you.

[oakhurstair]

beenthere, I saw that, but appreciate you pointing it out to me. I've been looking at other posts to reply to, and what I might add has already been added- so I move on. I'm the same way on the gold forums!
I'm not really an introvert, just don't want to waste too many words; unless I've had a cocktail or two, then get carried away. Would rather speak fewer words.
Shep
Thanks

[beenthere]

Your welcome.

From my understanding. The membership committee gets a fair number of apps that the applicant only has a few post, but applies anyway. And of course, they can't process it then. I try to forewarn people before they wonder why their app is taking 3 months.