I smell a rat.

[msslc]

I think the rat I finally poisoned crawled into the HVAC return to die. There is an awful smell that disappears completely when I turn on the HVAC fan. This is a tribute to the Aprilaire 5000 air filter with the new retrofit kit.

First, does the lack of smell suggest that the rat is indeed in the return? If so, how do I get it out? I thought of the guys who advertise vacuuming your air ducts, but I'm not sure this is the way to go.

Second, if the rat is where I think he is, there must be a hole or several somewhere in the almost new ducts. What's the best way to locate and fix the problem so I don't have my high efficiency furnace heating the whole world? Can a camera gizmo travel through the ducts to find the hole - and maybe the rat if we don't find him before that?

[airmechanix]

unless a rat actually has eaten through the duct.A visual inspection of the return duct should reveal if that is the case. It could be an improperly installed P-trap causing this problem.

[the dangling wrangler]

If the smell goes away when you turn on the fan, thenit's most likely not a dead animal.Seems like the smell would get worse.Could be condensate water blowing on the insulation,I think I'd look for drain problems first.

[msslc]

We had a rat. For a while. We put out poison. Now we don't hear the rat. We smell a decaying rat smell. I'm pretty sure that we now have a dead rat somewhere.

We have flexible ducts, not metal ones. I think it is likely that the rat ate through the duct somewhere - not necessarily the return - and crawled through the system to die.

The ducts are under the house in a crawl space. The return is in the attic, probably covered with insulation. A visual inspection of the whole system is difficult. I was hoping for a good alternative to find the hole.

[tundra]

You may have to get creative. Try your digital camera and a strong light. Remove the grate from the supply and return ducts, stick the camera and light down as far as you can and take a picture. They do make cameras and fiber optic viewers, you may have to do some looking to find someone with one.

[tpa-fl]

You'd definitely know the smell if it was a dead rat... or dead anything for that matter. If the smell disappears when you run the blower, it might just be near the ductwork somewhere and you've got leaky ductwork. Otherwise, the smell would be far stronger with the air running. Not sure about out there, but there are duct cleaning services which have cameras on the end of fiber optics here, and there are also plumbing leak detector cos out here which also have the same fiber optic cams. This probably is a good time to check for leaks & seal up the ductwork...along with eliminating the dead Mickey.

[tinner73]

this is why you should not have flex duct in a crawlspace. i would imagine that this will be an ongoing problem. replace duct with metal.

[markco]

Where does your condensate drain to? If you used D-Con, it is made out of Warfarin, a blood thinner.(Same as Coumidin, used for people.) Makes the critter pretty thirsty. If it died near water, i.e. your condensate drain, the fumes could be traveling up the condensate hose into your system. When you turn the system on, positive pressure forces the smell back down the hose. Just an idea...

[hittman]

I would look for insolation coming out of one of your supply grills, if a rat ate through the flex duct then there is a good chance the insolation would show up in the grill.
P.S. replace the flex with metal, Flex shouldn't be used under a house for this very reason.

[Edited by hittman on 04-25-2005 at 11:49 PM]

[airmechanix]

...amazed that mechanical code would allow flex underneath a crawlspace, it simply makes no sense at all.

IMO

[skorch]

worked on same situation once. Took ductwork apart and found nothing. Yes, flex duct in attic. Chem cleaned evap and problem solved. Suspect animal scratch itself on coil fins, which was suported by blood marks on coil.

[jfs1138]

I had a dead rat in the attic this winter just a month or so before I first turned the AC on. We were running the heat during the couple of days the rat was really stinking before I was able to get it cleaned up. The smell collected on the AC coils. While running heat, there was no smell, but as soon as I clicked on the AC and the water began to collect on the coils, OH BOY did they remember the smell!

Had my regular service a week later, a few minutes with a spray bottle of coil cleaner and the tech had completely solved my problem.

The coil will remember the smell until you clean it ;)

[msslc]

Thanks for your suggestions. What I finally did was call my HVAC company, which installed the system a few years ago. They sent a guy with a much more compact build than mine to crawl under the house and take a look. Sure enough, there was a dead rat. It was not in the ducts, it was lying on some insulation scrap on the ground.

The flex ducts were fine. The rat didn't get in. The service guy was nice enough to fix the screen that the deck contractor had messed up, so no new rats can get in.

Since $130 seemed a little high for a crawl under the house, I also had the service guy rebalance the dampers to even the flow of air through the house. That had been bothering me for a while, and it turns out that one damper was completely closed. Kinda explains why that bathroom was getting moldy despite a ceiling fan.

If anyone is interested in a new air cleaner, I am more impresssed than ever by the Aprilaire 5000. Even removes the smell of dead rats!

[MadeinUSA]

Originally posted by msslc
Thanks for your suggestions. What I finally did was call my HVAC company, which installed the system a few years ago. They sent a guy with a much more compact build than mine to crawl under the house and take a look. Sure enough, there was a dead rat. It was not in the ducts, it was lying on some insulation scrap on the ground.

The flex ducts were fine. The rat didn't get in. The service guy was nice enough to fix the screen that the deck contractor had messed up, so no new rats can get in.

Since $130 seemed a little high for a crawl under the house, I also had the service guy rebalance the dampers to even the flow of air through the house. That had been bothering me for a while, and it turns out that one damper was completely closed. Kinda explains why that bathroom was getting moldy despite a ceiling fan.

If anyone is interested in a new air cleaner, I am more impresssed than ever by the Aprilaire 5000. Even removes the smell of dead rats! You got FREE advice here, and when you’re A/C man drove across town, crawled under your house and solved your problem AND, AND, AND repaired your screen so no more rodents could enter your crawl space you have the audacity to feel you were being charged to much, so you had to use him some more to get some FREE work out of him.

You must have 100% GYPSY blood running through your veins.

Bud, $130.00 was cheap for just the service call, solving your problem and repairing your screen. If you were a decent man, you’d pull out your checkbook and cut the company another $100.00 for spending the time to balance out your system if they spent 30 minutes performing this task.

[tpa-fl]

If the ducts are "fine", then how did the aroma de rat make its way inside the structure, esp. from the air ducts. Methinks you have some air leakage somewhere, either in the ducts or floor.

[msslc]

Originally posted by madeinusa You got FREE advice here, and when you’re A/C man drove across town, crawled under your house and solved your problem AND, AND, AND repaired your screen so no more rodents could enter your crawl space you have the audacity to feel you were being charged to much, so you had to use him some more to get some FREE work out of him.

You must have 100% GYPSY blood running through your veins.

Bud, $130.00 was cheap for just the service call, solving your problem and repairing your screen. If you were a decent man, you’d pull out your checkbook and cut the company another $100.00 for spending the time to balance out your system if they spent 30 minutes performing this task.
[/B]

1. The guy took 10 or 15 minutes under the house to get the rat and fix the screen.

2. He didn't "balance" the system; he just opened a damper that his company's installers had put in fully closed. There was no airflow to the bathroom at all. I would have expected the company to fix this mistake without charge. I understand that when a HVAC company balances a system, they use test equipment to measure the air flow. He didn't do that.

3. I pay for an annual "service plan" with this company. The $130 was in addition to the cost of the plan. They give me a discount on service calls. I paid the full amount charged for the service provided.

4. I do appreciate the free advice here. I don't appreciate racist comments. Cool it.

[the dangling wrangler]

You sir, are a nincompoop!

[MadeinUSA]

Originally posted by msslc

2. He didn't "balance" the system; he just opened a damper that his company's installers had put in fully closed. There was no airflow to the bathroom at all. I would have expected the company to fix this mistake without charge. Here is your original statement concerning balancing your air ducts.


Originally posted by msslc

I also had the service guy rebalance the dampers to even the flow of air through the house. That had been bothering me for a while, and it turns out that one damper was completely closed. Kinda explains why that bathroom was getting moldy despite a ceiling fan.

You stated you had the man rebalance the dampers to even the flow through the house, NOT just open one closed damper.

Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Sir, you simply have no respect for good service any trades person would provide you with. Have a nice life.

[the dangling wrangler]

How'd you like to have a customer like this one? I didn't
think Gypsy was racist at all. I think this guy is nothing
more than a cheap SOB. Try and get me to crawl under any
house for less than $100.00. A service call is 75.00, soon
to be 100.00. I guess that A/C men don't have to eat or
have a place to sleep at night, let alone drive to the
jobs.

[msslc]

Originally posted by madeinusa You must have 100% GYPSY blood running through your veins.

If that isn't a racist remark, I don't know what is. In addition to the 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust, Hitler and his Nazis killed about 250,000 gypsies, or Roma as they prefer to be called. What you said didn't insult me, but it desecrated their memory.

I'm sorry if I confused you by saying "rebalance." That's what the serviceman originally said he would do. But when he fixed the damper, that solved the problem. I paid the full amount charged and I paid it promptly. If you don't want customers like that, you don't have to accept them.

[the dangling wrangler]

And we don't!

[steve potvin]

msslc,
You better remember that all the groups you mentioned would have been wiped out if brave american young men hadn't fought, suffered and died. I grew up around many of those European survivers, mostly men, crying how their wives and children were taken from them and as a kid realized what chicken **** cowards most european men are. I knew for sure my american parents would die for me and now in turn, I for my children and grandchildren.
Then there is the fact that in our american slang the word gypsy is not a racial slur hence "irish gypsy"and the parental favorite You cute little gypsy.
To my fellow tradespeople, go see the tread 'Goodman.... posted by woofer last week. People we had better wake up to the busines realities .
Remember your family first! Join a union or real good trade organization and let your family prosper from the fruits of your labor. Steve

[thehumid1]

Originally posted by airmechanix
...amazed that mechanical code would allow flex underneath a crawlspace, it simply makes no sense at all.

IMO

I see you never played in trailer park HVAC yet.

[msslc]

Originally posted by steve potvin
msslc,
You better remember that all the groups you mentioned would have been wiped out if brave american young men hadn't fought, suffered and died. I grew up around many of those European survivers, mostly men, crying how their wives and children were taken from them and as a kid realized what chicken **** cowards most european men are. I knew for sure my american parents would die for me and now in turn, I for my children and grandchildren.
Then there is the fact that in our american slang the word gypsy is not a racial slur hence "irish gypsy"and the parental favorite You cute little gypsy.
To my fellow tradespeople, go see the tread 'Goodman.... posted by woofer last week. People we had better wake up to the busines realities .
Remember your family first! Join a union or real good trade organization and let your family prosper from the fruits of your labor. Steve


Most European men are chicken**** cowards? I hate to break it to you, bub, but about 27 million Russians died in World War II, compared to about 405,000 Americans. And it was not American pilots of whom Winston Churchill said, "Never was so much owed by so many to so few." Americans have no monopoly on courage. Even though the Germans were responsible for the Holocaust, very few people accused them of cowardice.

So you won't think I minimize the important role that American soldiers played, my own dad fought under General Patton with the tanks that relieved the American forces trapped at Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. I know he was brave. I respect what he did. But I think you are crazy to call most European men cowards.

And while "gypsy" may not by itself be a racial slur, using the term as an insult is unacceptable.

[docholiday]

It seems to me that a country founded just over 225 years ago, built from the ground up by stow aways, weak, desperate people who found a way to kick the living crap out of just about anyone who tried to stop them and then to become the single most financially, militarily and free-est nation in the world in its short history.

The few Americans didn't die from being cowards. The number was relatively small because they were smart enough not to stand in front of gunfire. The number was way too large when you condsider who they died for. It also seems to me that Russia, France, Germany, (the list goes on) have cried for help to this infant country, but fails to remember that when asked for assistance.

I wouldnt make a good president, I would pull all aid from every other country as long as they act the way they do. Just like I'd put a dog down for biting the hand that feeds it. (ok, thats a metaphore, I'm not into killing dogs).

BTW, gypsy is not racial, its merely a way of life.

[msslc]

Originally posted by docholiday
It seems to me that a country founded just over 225 years ago, built from the ground up by stow aways, weak, desperate people who found a way to kick the living crap out of just about anyone who tried to stop them and then to become the single most financially, militarily and free-est nation in the world in its short history.

The few Americans didn't die from being cowards. The number was relatively small because they were smart enough not to stand in front of gunfire. The number was way too large when you condsider who they died for. It also seems to me that Russia, France, Germany, (the list goes on) have cried for help to this infant country, but fails to remember that when asked for assistance.

I wouldnt make a good president, I would pull all aid from every other country as long as they act the way they do. Just like I'd put a dog down for biting the hand that feeds it. (ok, thats a metaphore, I'm not into killing dogs).

BTW, gypsy is not racial, its merely a way of life.

We wouldn't have our own country if it weren't for Europeans like Lafayette and Kosciusko who helped train the American army, Rochambeauand who led French troops at Yorktown and de Grasse whose French fleet kept the British navy away from Yorktown long enough for Washington to defeat the British army under Cornwallis. So when you talk about "help to this infant country," honor our European allies.

The lower American death toll in World War II did not come from our troops being smart enough not to stand in gunfire and others being stupid. Nobody is that stupid. Our lower losses came from the war being fought in Europe and Asia, not in our own country. The Germans occupied large parts of European Russia before winter and the Red Army turned them back. Also, the war in Europe started Sept. 1, 1939 but America stayed neutral until Pearl Harbor was attacked on Dec. 7, 1941; so the Europeans fought a lot longer.

When the Americans, British and Canadians invaded Normandy on D-Day, they faced 50 German divisions in France. At the same time the Red Army was fighting 200 German divisions in Russia. Russian losses were the result of hard fighting, not stupid soldiers.

As for "gypsy" not being a racial group, you are not correct. The word can refer to a way of life, but the primary definition is:

"A member of a people that arrived in Europe in migrations from northern India around the 14th century, now also living in North America and Australia. Many Gypsy groups have preserved elements of their traditional culture, including an itinerant existence and the Romany language."
See: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gypsy

[tpa-fl]

I figured I might as well add fuel to the fire:

Gypsies arrested in Tampa:
http://www.wtsp.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=14020

and from the 1913 Webster's dictionary:
Gypsy \Gyp"sy\ (j[i^]p"s[y^]), n.; pl. Gypsies
(j[i^]p"s[i^]z). [OE. Gypcyan, F. ['e]gyptien Egyptian,
gypsy, L. Aegyptius. See Egyptian.] [Also spelled gipsy
and gypsey.]
1. One of a vagabond race, whose tribes, coming originally
from India, entered Europe in the 14th or 15th century,
and are now scattered over Turkey, Russia, Hungary, Spain,
England, etc., living by theft, fortune telling,
horsejockeying, tinkering, etc. Cf. Bohemian, Romany.
[1913 Webster]

[the dangling wrangler]

Who in the world leaves a hundred -thousand in cash laying around?