Climate Master Lock out question

[bpultra]

Here is what I have ..quick a dirty .. a new install that was running perfectly for about 2 months now... my geo field is 6 holes drilled 275 feet deep .. I have two systems one 5 ton w-A heat pump Carrier 50ydh072 two stage and a 3 ton GSW060 Climate master W-w heat pump... the CM is used for under slab heating only and is plumbed into two 50 gallon hot water holding tanks.(used as holding tanks only) then this is plumbed into a 4 zone under slab radiant floor system that covers about about 3000 square feet.. and the floor is 7" solid concrete.. I am using a Ranco ETC to monitoring the two holding tanks.. Hi set point was at 105 and low at 65 .. everything was working great up unlit a couple days ago.. air ambient Stat would start the recirculation pump ( RP) for the under slab .. then as per design when the lower set point would be hit the CM would kick in.. once the floor was up to temp RP would of course stop and the CM would continue on till the high 105 set point was hit and then shut down.. but here is my problem.. I went in the crawl space where the equipment is located and big ugly red light on the CM.. so had a lock out .. so after a hard reset .. the system works fine but as soon as the RP quits .. when the CM is still suppose to be running till the high set point it runs for about a few minutes then it sounds like some sort of pressure is building and building and then locks out after about 3 re-tries... The Carrier is working fine off the same geo field so that should be eliminated.. I shorted the FP1 and FP2 to eliminate the sensors and that is not the problem.. I get a slow flash on the led so that is a Fault retry .. so I have to think I either have some temp fault or pressure fault somewhere.. yet when the RP is working the CM works perfect.. it is only when the RP quits that after a few minutes the CM quits?

Can't see a low Freon charge causing this because runs perfect if the RP is working? I was wondering if anyone had any ideas where a guy could look?

BP

[tlb]

not to familiar with w2w i assume your RP is what circulates the water from holding tanks through loop under floor and back what is circulating the water between the holding tanks and the CM an internal pump in the CM sounds like when your RP stops that you are not getting any water flowing through your heat exchanger which would cause the high side pressure to climb rapidly

[bpultra]

not to familiar with w2w i assume your RP is what circulates the water from holding tanks through loop under floor and back what is circulating the water between the holding tanks and the CM an internal pump in the CM sounds like when your RP stops that you are not getting any water flowing through your heat exchanger which would cause the high side pressure to climb rapidly

yes you are correct on the RP.. there is a wilo RP between the tanks and the CM.. the thing is it worked perfect for 2 months .. how hot do the wilo rp's run.. it is very hot to touch .. maybe this is my problem?

[tlb]

never used wilo pump we usually use grundfoss or BG pumps some pumps we get are air cooled by a small fan on back end of motor shaft and some are not the pumps will get pretty warm but not extremely hot.i have only worked on w2a geos. but the way you describe it once your RP is shut down by your room tstat that you no longer have any water flowing from your holding tanks to your CM

[tlb]

forgot to ask did you check to make sure that your pump in CM is still running after the RP to under floor has cut off

[bpultra]

forgot to ask did you check to make sure that your pump in CM is still running after the RP to under floor has cut off

First thanks very much for taking the time to help... now this may seem like a stupid question but what is the best way to check the pump in the CM... the wilo pump is very very hot !!

[tlb]

clamp an amp meter on the high voltage feeds going to the pump see what the amp draw is this will let you know if the motor is running in spec but it will not tell you anything about the impellar.what is turning this pump on and off the Ranco ETC? what is an ETC?

[bpultra]

clamp an amp meter on the high voltage feeds going to the pump see what the amp draw is this will let you know if the motor is running in spec but it will not tell you anything about the impellar.what is turning this pump on and off the Ranco ETC? what is an ETC?

""The Ranco ETC is a microprocessor-based family of temperature controls designed to provide on/off control for commercial heating""

The Ranco monitors the two water tank temps and this tells the CM when to turn on and off ,, which would then turn the wlco on as well. There is a totally different RP and ciruite etc for the underslab.. may have to pull the wlco pump a part.. I do not see any other pump in the CM GSW060agcoocfcs

[bpultra]

""The Ranco ETC is a microprocessor-based family of temperature controls designed to provide on/off control for commercial heating""

The Ranco monitors the two water tank temps and this tells the CM when to turn on and off ,, which would then turn the wlco on as well. There is a totally different RP and ciruite etc for the underslab.. may have to pull the wlco pump a part.. I do not see any other pump in the CM GSW060agcoocfcs

that is wilo not wlco

[tlb]

does your CM have any pressure-temp ports in the water lines going to your tanks if it does your can take a pressure gauge and check the psi drop across your heat exchanger. on the w2a units there is a chart in the manual that will tell you the GPM flow for a given water temp and psi drop across heat exchanger not for sure if they have that on w2w versions

[bpultra]

does your CM have any pressure-temp ports in the water lines going to your tanks if it does your can take a pressure gauge and check the psi drop across your heat exchanger. on the w2a units there is a chart in the manual that will tell you the GPM flow for a given water temp and psi drop across heat exchanger not for sure if they have that on w2w versions

Yes there are some ports in the lines which I will take your advice and check

Once again thanks!! I will let you know I hope to get this figured out this week having to power down and up all the time is a pain in the butt!!

[tlb]

keep me posted like to know what you find out

[notquiteamish63]

You guys are right on track. You are not moving your load water from the geo to the storage tanks. The fact that the circ is hot tells me it is getting power so controls are not the problem. If it is too hot to touch for more than a second, it is probably locked up and cycling on thermal overload. I would replace with grundfos 2699 load circulator as I have had similar experiences with wilo circs. Good luck.

[bpultra]

You guys are right on track. You are not moving your load water from the geo to the storage tanks. The fact that the circ is hot tells me it is getting power so controls are not the problem. If it is too hot to touch for more than a second, it is probably locked up and cycling on thermal overload. I would replace with grundfos 2699 load circulator as I have had similar experiences with wilo circs. Good luck.

Yes the wilo failed and yes replaces with grunfos...

TLB want to thank you for taking the time to help!!

Also had the two tanks re-done they were plumbed in series.. now in parallel, also had them put one more air scrubber in .. I am down about 2 GPM from 100% as per manuals .. for the actaul 1650 feet of my geo field .. so some testing and balancing going on right now.. have to get all this heating figured out before we even start trying to figure out the radiat floor cooling that we are putting in..I am sure another whole bunch of issues

[tlb]

no thanks necessary i might get in bind sometime and need your help

[bpultra]

Is there a simple way to turn off or disengage the auxiliary electric heat ..a dip switch ? or ?

On a 5 ton w-A heat pump Carrier 50ydh072 two stage unit???.