Problems with ductwork?

[PLUCKYHD]

Hey all,

I have a new 2500 sq foot house in Oklahoma with a 5 ton system. I have a entire side of the house that is not heating and cooling properly. After calling the builds HVAC guys out 5 times I was ready to give up on them and called another highly recommended company out. The guys says my ductwork is the issue and is ran completely wrong. He claims my return airs and return ducts are only capable of returning 4 ton of air to a 5 ton system and that is why I get really bad sucking at all my returns and it sounds like it is sucking so hard at a couple of them. He also says the supply air is all wrong by going into to many distrubtion boxes. (which my return duct work does as well he says is wrong).

He also says my thermostat is located wrong (it is to one side of the house greatly instead of to the middle.) He also wants to install a thermostat that will run the fan something like 35% of the time to better keep the air balanced in the house.

The bottom line is the side of the house is noticably cooler than the rest. I have to burn us out in the master bedroom to cool my kid rooms.

Does what this guy is saying hold a candle of truth?

Thanks in advance

[classical]

Sounds very plausible but we are not there to see it. Ask them to provide you a quote and a performance guaranty.

The thermostat idea sounds good as long as the ductwork is sealed and the house is tight which it should be being new.

[rihvactech1]

I would sugest that you have it balenced. This will help with hot spots.after you are geting the right cfm in each room it shood heat even and cool even. If your t stat is near a retern it shood be ok as long as it is not on an outside wall good luck I would digest that you have a duct work guy come out and look at it good luck

[bradley1981]

That guy is def. on track, alot of people dont understand duct work an you can not throw any unit on a bad or wrong sized duct work. It sounds for sure your return is small an them dist boxes are the worse ever, USE A TRUNK! Also the best thing to do in your size of house, is to zone it, my company does tons of them an the customers cant believe it. You need good ductwork though, an its only 1 heater an a/c, the duct is zoned, an you can have as many tstats as you want. we took out a 2 units totaling up to 8 ton an did 1 system zoned with a total of 4 ton. If you want more info i can get you more, by the way we use arezel zoning

[PLUCKYHD]

His quote was **** for new ductwork, thermostat. Note this also included a another return air and Also a couple of supply registers in a couple of places.


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[Tom Campbell]

Keep in mind that the builder's installer might not have only been inexperienced, but he may have also laid things out a certain way because access was easier for him. The direction of beams and plumbing and all sorts of things may have made it difficult to lay things out without losing headroom or even creating soffits in some rooms or closets, or other things that the typical homeowner might raise fits over. Some walls may have already been closed in so he could not put returns where they should ideally be placed. In some cases he could have gotten around the problems with more expensive materials or accessories, but of course that would have added to the cost.

So regardless of the quote, be prepared for it to also include some layout or aesthetic compromises as well. In other words, it may take more than money to fix it.

[jtrammel]

sounds like he knows what hes talking about but can't be sure without seeing the job.

[sktn77a]

Why don't you check and adjust the dampers at the brach line takeoffs first. This should even out the air distribution to some extent. This should also be free from the builders HVAC guy. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, then start spending money on new ductwork. Has your bilder agreed top pay for this re-work of the HVAC system? He should but they rarely do.

[PLUCKYHD]

Keep in mind that the builder's installer might not have only been inexperienced, but he may have also laid things out a certain way because access was easier for him. The direction of beams and plumbing and all sorts of things may have made it difficult to lay things out without losing headroom or even creating soffits in some rooms or closets, or other things that the typical homeowner might raise fits over. Some walls may have already been closed in so he could not put returns where they should ideally be placed. In some cases he could have gotten around the problems with more expensive materials or accessories, but of course that would have added to the cost.

So regardless of the quote, be prepared for it to also include some layout or aesthetic compromises as well. In other words, it may take more than money to fix it.

Yeah this heat and air was put in when only studs existed they have no excuse. My attic is open and easy to reach all areas so I don't think there will be any comprises or I hope not.

sounds like he knows what hes talking about but can't be sure without seeing the job.

I will follow up with pictures in the morning hopefully that can help you guys see what I have now.


Why don't you check and adjust the dampers at the brach line takeoffs first. This should even out the air distribution to some extent. This should also be free from the builders HVAC guy. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, then start spending money on new ductwork. Has your bilder agreed top pay for this re-work of the HVAC system? He should but they rarely do.

Sorry over my head dampers where? They had me shut off some rooms that were too hot and that didn't do anything. The builder paying would be nice but he just sends his ac contractor out who hasn't fixed anything yet. At this point cost isn't the issue getting it fixed and right is

[PLUCKYHD]

Also is he correct in saying returns shouldn't suck so hard if I had enough? They are ceiling returns and have filters and the filters almost get sucked up into the duct it sucks so hard.

Thanks again I have no knowledge of this stuff and this guy seems knowledgable and is recommended but it is allot of money too spend.

[jtrammel]

sorry to say it but it sounds like the builder hired the cheapest hvac installer and they have no idea what they are doing. Happens a lot, its good for my buisiness though because i'm the guy you call when you need it done right... lol. hopefully its something that can easily be fixed and won't cost you too much.

[Roadhouse]

I've done a few hundred new construction resi hvac installs and NEVER once has anything been in the way. Everything else revolves around us.

Chases have been built to accomodate our placement, this just sounds like a slap stick job.

[Roadhouse]

Also is he correct in saying returns shouldn't suck so hard if I had enough? They are ceiling returns and have filters and the filters almost get sucked up into the duct it sucks so hard.

Thanks again I have no knowledge of this stuff and this guy seems knowledgable and is recommended but it is allot of money too spend.

You can never have too much return air but if it's restricted or too small it'll suck really hard and than the system can't deliver the designed amount of air. It's known as static pressure and it can be and should be checked both return and supply. Revolves directly around duct work.

[PLUCKYHD]

sorry to say it but it sounds like the builder hired the cheapest hvac installer and they have no idea what they are doing. Happens a lot, its good for my buisiness though because i'm the guy you call when you need it done right... lol. hopefully its something that can easily be fixed and won't cost you too much.

Now you sound like the contractor that quoted me ;) the price isn't too bad still sucks to spend money on a new house because of uneducated contractors or inexperienced. The last thing they did was change the duct work from 4" to 6" in the rooms having the issue this did nothing of course and was my last straw.

[jtrammel]

Now you sound like the contractor that quoted me ;) the price isn't too bad still sucks to spend money on a new house because of uneducated contractors or inexperienced. The last thing they did was change the duct work from 4" to 6" in the rooms having the issue this did nothing of course and was my last straw.

There are lots of folks in the industry that just don't believe that their is any science to installing ductwork. I tell my customers this, If you had a formula one race car which cost boo coos of money to build and perfect and is specifically built to race on a specific road track, would you take it out in a field and drive it around in the mud? Because that is basically what you are doing when you put a piece of hvac equipment on a poorly designed/installed duct system. Hope all goes well and your home becomes more comfortable.

[PLUCKYHD]

Here are some pictures of the current duct work. From what my contractor has told me it is terrible. Does it look that bad of course I know you can't see all of it I just snapped a couple of quick examples. Return is of course coming out of the bottom and supply out of the top (unit cannot be mounted horizontal new contractor wanted to do that but this model can't be). I put some text on some of them (I know you have to zoom to read it sorry about that

return air distribution box #1
http://babgvant.com/downloads/pluckyhd/Ductimage.jpeg
http://babgvant.com/downloads/pluckyhd/Ductimage4.jpeg
Furnace Unit
http://babgvant.com/downloads/pluckyhd/Ductimage2.jpeg
return air distibution box #2
http://babgvant.com/downloads/pluckyhd/Ductimage3.jpeg
supply air distribution box #1
http://babgvant.com/downloads/pluckyhd/Ductimage6.jpeg

[turner_mech]

The pictures of your install look terrible. By the pictures the install looks to be done by either a unskilled installer or one that does not care. I would be willing to bet by the quality of work that that the installer made little effert to size the ductwork correctly. The incorrect sizing creates high static pressure which make the entire system not fuction properly. The tipical situation leads to no heat/cooling available at the end to the duct system. You need to find someone experensed in duct design to evaluate what if any of the ductwork can be saved. It is unfortunate but some times you are just better of to almost start over with the duct system. do you live in a area with HVAC inspections preformed by the state/city or county. if so I would find out if this passed inspection. If this passed inspection i would express my disapointment with the inspector.

[PLUCKYHD]

The pictures of your install look terrible. By the pictures the install looks to be done by either a unskilled installer or one that does not care. I would be willing to bet by the quality of work that that the installer made little effert to size the ductwork correctly. The incorrect sizing creates high static pressure which make the entire system not fuction properly. The tipical situation leads to no heat/cooling available at the end to the duct system. You need to find someone experensed in duct design to evaluate what if any of the ductwork can be saved. It is unfortunate but some times you are just better of to almost start over with the duct system. do you live in a area with HVAC inspections preformed by the state/city or county. if so I would find out if this passed inspection. If this passed inspection i would express my disapointment with the inspector.

Thanks for verify what my contractor that I want to use told me. He said it was absolutely terrible and was best to just tear it out and start from scratch as trying to fix anything would just make it worse. He is pretty experienced from the reference I got and seems to know what he is talking about. I will probably get someone else out there just for arguments sake as well. He said he could maybe save 50% of the ductwork at best. Many rooms are oversized and many are undersized. The house heats and cools so different throughout it isn't funny.

We do have inspections and it did past but I think they only check the gas hookups and things of that nature.

I appreciate the validation that they shouldn't be doing this.

[PineKap]

The other posts have already addressed the fact that you have problems with the duct system. The one thing that i am curious about is the fact that with the poor design of the ducting i wonder how much effort was put into sizing your equipment right also.
I highly suggest whom ever you have bid to fix your system (notice i am not saying ductwork), you make sure they do a Room By Room load Calculation and show you the results. This will address the size of equipment, Duct sizing and the proper CFM needed to each room. Once this is done you can then use the balancing dampers that should be installed with your new duct system to make sure you are getting the proper heating and cooling to each room.

As far as the thermostat goes, The one the guy quoted to make the system run 33% of the time is a great Stat. It will not only help to make sure the air in the home is evenly temped, It will also allow your air to be filtered more often, Make sure the humidity is right if you have Humidifier/Dehumidifier and so on.

Kappl

[PLUCKYHD]

The other posts have already addressed the fact that you have problems with the duct system. The one thing that i am curious about is the fact that with the poor design of the ducting i wonder how much effort was put into sizing your equipment right also.
I highly suggest whom ever you have bid to fix your system (notice i am not saying ductwork), you make sure they do a Room By Room load Calculation and show you the results. This will address the size of equipment, Duct sizing and the proper CFM needed to each room. Once this is done you can then use the balancing dampers that should be installed with your new duct system to make sure you are getting the proper heating and cooling to each room.

As far as the thermostat goes, The one the guy quoted to make the system run 33% of the time is a great Stat. It will not only help to make sure the air in the home is evenly temped, It will also allow your air to be filtered more often, Make sure the humidity is right if you have Humidifier/Dehumidifier and so on.

Kappl

Yeah that is exactly what he did was a room by room measurement and that is how he came up with what was oversized and undersized. So that makes me feel better he did that. I don't think he was doing dampers what exactly does/is that and I will ask.

And thanks for the input on the thermostat that makes me feel even better.

[turner_mech]

Most good contractors use dampered take offs. The take off is what attaches to the trunk duct and the flex duct connects to. The damper allows for fine tuning the duct system. Most rooms do not fall exactly on one particalr flex duct size.