Help in Texas Please!

[JPW1]

We moved in to a house built in 1981 about 3 years ago. The furnace in it is now over 20 years old and requires enough work to keep it going that it makes more sense to replace it. The coils and blower are of the same age and I feel if I'm going to replace the furnace I should replcae this equipment as well. Furthermore, the compressor is only 4 years old and works well, but the A/C companies have told me that with the new refrigerant it makes more sense to just replace everything. Evidently with the new refrigerant there is a complementary relationship between all the equipment utilizing the new refrigerant which makes some sense to me.

The irony is the heater definetly needs replacing, but I'm more concerned about the air conditioning since here in Houston it is brutally hot the majority of the year. Fortunately, I've spoken to a few contractors that I like and I feel as though they will do good work. What I'm faced with now is choosing the right equipment and options. I don't mind spending money on options if I gain something from it, but for some of this I don't have any reference point and I'm looking for advice from others.

After talking this through a bit I have settled on a few things I know that I want. First, the best units we have been recommended are 16 seer (5 ton) for our house. Also, I'm sold on having one with variable speed.

1. Also, I've just about settled on American Standard or Carrier (Infinity). Is there any reason to choose one over the other?

2. The current unit we have is mounted vertically in a closet. One company is recommending that we spend the money for a horizontal unit and put it in the attic. I'm a little conflcted here since I love the thought of removing the unit more to lessen noise and I also like the idea of easily being able to get to the coils in a horizontal unit, however, our attic gets extremelyhot and something tells me having the unit in the closet vertically has helped with keeping the air colder since it is somewhat insulated by the second floor rather than the attic. Does that make sense at all? If the additional money isn't a concern is it always better to have a horizontal unit in the attic opposed to a vertical unit in the closet?

3. One company is recommending the addition of a U/V light to help clean the air and the coils. The cost isn't that much when compared to the complete cost so it makes sense to just have it installed if it does anything. Do these really work? Any reason not to have one installed?

4. This same company has additionally given us the option of adding Electronic Air Purification System. This is a significant cost and adds about 20% to the whole job. Do these really work? My wife does have some allergies and if I thought this might help then it may be worth it. I just don't have any frame of reference to know whether they really work.

[keeplearnin]

Jpw1 I think the best location would be in the closet for your unit as long as everything fits w/out major remodeling. With the hot summers you will lose some capacity in the hot attic same with winter.I personally don't like electronic air cleaners however the filter media say like aprilaire work very well for lower cost. Aprilaire uses 4 inch pleated filters so they have to be changed approximately every year. The UV light is also a good idea but my experience is the bulbs need replacing occasionally. American Standard is excellent equipment Just get a well backed company who will back the warranty, and do a quality install. Always ask for references.

[martin&sonsa/c]

let me add a few things to what is mentioned above as iam a contractor here in texas i would go with the honeywell 4in. media filter base or aprilaire and depending on what type of ducts you have should determine wether you use uv lights if you have flex duct i would strongly recomend no uv light as they will eat up the inner lining of the duct work at the plenum if you have metal duct than its ok but i think they are really overated. i dont know how many times ive gone to houses that have uv lights installed in the plenums and the ducts are falling off some contractors have tried to get around this by adding a 3ft extension of metal duct out of the plenum but i dont think they make that much of a differance and then there might be some who disagree but do remember they are bulbs and will have to be changed out and this is going to be something your contractor will have to do and more than likely they will charge you a service charge for this i would say that my customers that have had them have said its more of a head ache than what its worth. also did the contractor do a load calc when they came outto make sure proper sizing of equipment make sure they do that.

[furnace_guy]

We moved in to a house built in 1981 about 3 years ago. The furnace in it is now over 20 years old and requires enough work to keep it going that it makes more sense to replace it. The coils and blower are of the same age and I feel if I'm going to replace the furnace I should replcae this equipment as well. Furthermore, the compressor is only 4 years old and works well, but the A/C companies have told me that with the new refrigerant it makes more sense to just replace everything. Evidently with the new refrigerant there is a complementary relationship between all the equipment utilizing the new refrigerant which makes some sense to me.

The irony is the heater definetly needs replacing, but I'm more concerned about the air conditioning since here in Houston it is brutally hot the majority of the year. Fortunately, I've spoken to a few contractors that I like and I feel as though they will do good work. What I'm faced with now is choosing the right equipment and options. I don't mind spending money on options if I gain something from it, but for some of this I don't have any reference point and I'm looking for advice from others.

After talking this through a bit I have settled on a few things I know that I want. First, the best units we have been recommended are 16 seer (5 ton) for our house. Also, I'm sold on having one with variable speed.

1. Also, I've just about settled on American Standard or Carrier (Infinity). Is there any reason to choose one over the other?

2. The current unit we have is mounted vertically in a closet. One company is recommending that we spend the money for a horizontal unit and put it in the attic. I'm a little conflcted here since I love the thought of removing the unit more to lessen noise and I also like the idea of easily being able to get to the coils in a horizontal unit, however, our attic gets extremelyhot and something tells me having the unit in the closet vertically has helped with keeping the air colder since it is somewhat insulated by the second floor rather than the attic. Does that make sense at all? If the additional money isn't a concern is it always better to have a horizontal unit in the attic opposed to a vertical unit in the closet?

3. One company is recommending the addition of a U/V light to help clean the air and the coils. The cost isn't that much when compared to the complete cost so it makes sense to just have it installed if it does anything. Do these really work? Any reason not to have one installed?

4. This same company has additionally given us the option of adding Electronic Air Purification System. This is a significant cost and adds about 20% to the whole job. Do these really work? My wife does have some allergies and if I thought this might help then it may be worth it. I just don't have any frame of reference to know whether they really work.

these things are nice, Electronic Air Purification System and U/V light but sounds like hvac contractor is also a salesman. when they sell you these additional, yes they are nic, but are they needed. also the hvac contractor when you buy these things they mark them UP at least 48% then also charge you to install them. I would not reccomend putting the furnace in the attic. where do you have to go every time you want or need to change the filter? keeping a clean is VERy important for the effeciency and live of the furnace.

[keeplearnin]

Whoa too much coffee dude, take a breath between sentences.

[keeplearnin]

It's best to stay away from electronic air cleaner too fragile. just my opinion.

[classical]

We moved in to a house built in 1981 about 3 years ago. The furnace in it is now over 20 years old and requires enough work to keep it going that it makes more sense to replace it. The coils and blower are of the same age and I feel if I'm going to replace the furnace I should replcae this equipment as well. Furthermore, the compressor is only 4 years old and works well, but the A/C companies have told me that with the new refrigerant it makes more sense to just replace everything. Evidently with the new refrigerant there is a complementary relationship between all the equipment utilizing the new refrigerant which makes some sense to me.

The irony is the heater definetly needs replacing, but I'm more concerned about the air conditioning since here in Houston it is brutally hot the majority of the year. Fortunately, I've spoken to a few contractors that I like and I feel as though they will do good work. What I'm faced with now is choosing the right equipment and options. I don't mind spending money on options if I gain something from it, but for some of this I don't have any reference point and I'm looking for advice from others.

After talking this through a bit I have settled on a few things I know that I want. First, the best units we have been recommended are 16 seer (5 ton) for our house. Also, I'm sold on having one with variable speed.

1. Also, I've just about settled on American Standard or Carrier (Infinity). Is there any reason to choose one over the other?

2. The current unit we have is mounted vertically in a closet. One company is recommending that we spend the money for a horizontal unit and put it in the attic. I'm a little conflcted here since I love the thought of removing the unit more to lessen noise and I also like the idea of easily being able to get to the coils in a horizontal unit, however, our attic gets extremelyhot and something tells me having the unit in the closet vertically has helped with keeping the air colder since it is somewhat insulated by the second floor rather than the attic. Does that make sense at all? If the additional money isn't a concern is it always better to have a horizontal unit in the attic opposed to a vertical unit in the closet?

3. One company is recommending the addition of a U/V light to help clean the air and the coils. The cost isn't that much when compared to the complete cost so it makes sense to just have it installed if it does anything. Do these really work? Any reason not to have one installed?

4. This same company has additionally given us the option of adding Electronic Air Purification System. This is a significant cost and adds about 20% to the whole job. Do these really work? My wife does have some allergies and if I thought this might help then it may be worth it. I just don't have any frame of reference to know whether they really work.

First off has anyone done a load calculation to determine the actual size system required. In Houston most systems are grossly oversized and so poorly installed that they do not function to their actual BTU rating.

There are many things that can be done to a home to reduce the systems actual load thus reducing the system capacity requirement and this equates to real energy savings and comfort.

It appears you are being sold on gimmicks and gee ga's and not the real nuts and bolts of efficiency and comfort.

Do yourself a favor and keep looking, the temps are going up you have time.

I will give you a for instance, had a customer that had new windows, improved attic insulation and a company had just replaced his ductwork. All of the companies wanted to go back with a five ton system to replace his system. We find he had an actual load of just over 2.5-tons, would he have been comfortable with a system twice the size he needed. The leading contractor to get his work was the one that had just replaced his ductwork. We inspected and tested his ducts and found that they would only move 1241 CFM just enough for the 3-ton system he needed.

Oh he also had a media filter that was improperly sized and would not move enough air for a 5-ton even if his ducts would have.

He now has a new 3-ton 2-stage system with 70,000 BTU furnace and it works great.

As far as putting it in the attic instead of the closet, depends on several things. How much return air capacity do you have in its current configuration probably not enough. If additional return can be added no problem other than noise, if return cannot be added then put it in the attic because you are losing more capacity to inadequate airflow than you will by having the furnace and coil in the attic.

[ampulman]

Previously stated: "if you have flex duct i would strongly recomend no uv light as they will eat up the inner lining of the duct work at the plenum".

Do the U/V lights, or HV power supplies generate ozone, and is it the ozone which trashes the flex duct?

Amp

[dandyme]

a little read :bump:

[jtrammel]

Have a home energy audit performed on your house before buying!!! www.comfortinstitute.com contractor locator city zip. Chances are your duct system is leaky and or improperly sized

[REP]

I wasn't going to comment on this particular post but the more I think about it the more I get tired of the nay sayers of electronic air cleaners.
It is ture that years ago they were terrible to work on if they broke down and that homeowners would neglect to clean them.
Todays EACs are much differant.They are easy to repair and the collector cells are small enough to put in a dish washer every 2-3 months.
Yes you mustb be carefull not to drop them as this will put them out of round or bend the collector plates but normal care would prevent that.
The fact is they collect more types of particles and smaller particles than your average media types is a scientific fact.
Anyone that hasw a daughter or wife or any child with allergies would know the pain and suffering they endure and wouldn't be so quick to talk bad about them.
Having said all that,I have always told my customers that if they just want to address house dust a media is fine and a lot less expensive to install.I also let them knowe that they cannot break as there is no electronics to worry about.
UV lights on the other hand greatly enhance an EAC .They must be installed in metal ductwork and in just the right location and the expensive bulbs need to be changed every 2 years or so but in a bad health situation they provide additional relief.
If a media filter is used I would check and see where I could get replacement medias i.e. Lowes or HD.
As for EACs then the American Standard (Trane) unit is one of the best as is Aprilaire's EAC.even Honeywell's is good.
UV lights ,again I would check and see where I could get replacement bulbs.
I alswo see only a small problem with an attic install as long as vibro pads and canvas duct connectors are used and that it would would be easy to get to and work on.Proper duct wrap on metal duct is very effective.

[nvr2old]

If you still need a 5 ton after you've done the load calc, energy audit and duct inspection then I would install in attic. Sure its gonna be in a hot attic and you may lose some efficiency but the trade off is you're getting rid of alot of noise, you're options for filters will increase when the system is in the horizontal position and since most units in the upflow positions in closets around here are severely short on return you can add the needed duct for improved airflow. Your wife will also be happy to gain the closet space and if you closet is maybe 3 foot square you've gained 9 additional sellable square feet in your home.

[jtrammel]

I wasn't going to comment on this particular post but the more I think about it the more I get tired of the nay sayers of electronic air cleaners.
It is ture that years ago they were terrible to work on if they broke down and that homeowners would neglect to clean them.
Todays EACs are much differant.They are easy to repair and the collector cells are small enough to put in a dish washer every 2-3 months.
Yes you mustb be carefull not to drop them as this will put them out of round or bend the collector plates but normal care would prevent that.
The fact is they collect more types of particles and smaller particles than your average media types is a scientific fact.
Anyone that hasw a daughter or wife or any child with allergies would know the pain and suffering they endure and wouldn't be so quick to talk bad about them.
Having said all that,I have always told my customers that if they just want to address house dust a media is fine and a lot less expensive to install.I also let them knowe that they cannot break as there is no electronics to worry about.
UV lights on the other hand greatly enhance an EAC .They must be installed in metal ductwork and in just the right location and the expensive bulbs need to be changed every 2 years or so but in a bad health situation they provide additional relief.
If a media filter is used I would check and see where I could get replacement medias i.e. Lowes or HD.
As for EACs then the American Standard (Trane) unit is one of the best as is Aprilaire's EAC.even Honeywell's is good.
UV lights ,again I would check and see where I could get replacement bulbs.
I alswo see only a small problem with an attic install as long as vibro pads and canvas duct connectors are used and that it would would be easy to get to and work on.Proper duct wrap on metal duct is very effective.

I agree all these accesseries are nice but even the best EAC or filter media won't fix the dust caused by a leaky thermal envelope and or leaky duct system. You will have to change/ clean filter 4 times as much and still have dust problems. I would test system (blower door test;duct blast) then have equipment and sealed duct installed then have them test again when finished then try it out and if you still want/need these accessaries go from there. Make sure a load calc is done and make sure they test in and out. Don't take their word that its sealed

[JPW1]

Thanks so much for the responses. This is helping me a great deal. Let me see if I can respond based on some of the questions.

1. No, no one has done a load calculation. This house was built in the early 80's so it isn't all that old. The unit it currently has is the same one that was installed when the house was built so keeping the same size made sense to me. Also, the house is just over 2600 sq. feet which makes me feel like a 5-ton is probably the right fit.

2. I appreciate all the comments around leaky ducts, ventilation, potential for a poor installation, etc.. I have been giving this some thought as well. Currently, there is a large powered fan in our attic that comes on when the temperature reaches a certain level. Many have said the whirlybirds can do just as good a job. I've given some thought to installing an additional opening in the attic for a whirlybird, but I really need an expert to tell me whether it is neccesary or not. What I do know is the attic gets very hot in the summer, but it may be the same temperature as others. I've also given some though to installing a radiant barrier, but without proper ventilation I know this won't do much good so I really need to get ventilation resolved first. I guess I should ask, who is best to ask to install a whirlybird if I do find a need it?

3. In regards to the EAC I've been looking at two configurations from two different local HVAC companies: 1) Carrier (Infinity) for all the equipment: Compressor, Blower, Furnace, EAC, U/V Lights OR 2) EAC by Aprilaire and the rest from Standard Air. Both seem to have good reputations and from what I've read specifically around EAC's the Aprilaire and Carrier are fairly close. If there is any chance the EAC might help with my wife's allergies then it is probably worth at least trying. I'm assuming both configurations above are fine or does anyone believe that one is significantly better than other?

[JPW1]

2. Something I forgot to mention in the previous post that others might ask, that is, there are (thank goodness) a ton of soffitts around the perimeter of the roof. I think this is very good because it allows air to come in to the attic from the outside. However, what I can't figure out is whether the single powered vent fan is enough to pull out air for the whole attic. There aren't any gables and I wish I had a roof vent, but I don't. I just wonder whether a lot of this hot air in the summer is just getting bundled in the attic too much or whether the vent is really doing its job and pulling out an ample amount of air. The darn powered fan is relatively new too and it is still very loud. I bought basically the best one I could find but, if someone said a whirlybird would do just as much as good I would be inclined to quickly replace it.

[classical]

If you have not had a load calculation performed you will never know if the system is correctly sized and just because the original unit was sized 5-tons means nothing period.

You need to be careful on reducing the attic temp too much especially if you are going to be installing a multistage unit. The ductwork installed in the 80's is R-4 and if you lower the attic temp too much your ducts will sweat.

Making assumptions is going to cost you in the long run better to have a proper evaluation of your home to know for sure.

As far as allergies are concerned a simple extended media filter will do everything the EAC's will for most people and if your ductwork leaks neither will help much. Most allergies start with or are exacerbated by dust mites and filtration alone will not stop them. Humidity control is the key and that starts with a properly sized system.

BTW I have 4000 sq.ft. homes built in the 70's in Houston that only have four tons of A/C; rule of thumb does not work.

[Roadhouse]

BTW I have 4000 sq.ft. homes built in the 70's in Houston that only have four tons of A/C; rule of thumb does not work.

Can I ask where in Houston, classical, as in what side of town? Obviously these homes were renovated with new insulation as in spray foam in the roof joists and new double pane windows and what not, right? Zoned system?

[Roadhouse]

Btw classical, I am in no way questioning you or anything remotely close to that, I was only wondering the specifics of how it can and does work as such as in tighter "envelope" and if it is 4 tons of cooling of the entire home at all times or is it zoned off so in actuality it's only 2000 sq feet at a time or what, so on and so forth.

[universaltech]

We moved in to a house built in 1981 about 3 years ago. The furnace in it is now over 20 years old and requires enough work to keep it going that it makes more sense to replace it. The coils and blower are of the same age and I feel if I'm going to replace the furnace I should replcae this equipment as well. Furthermore, the compressor is only 4 years old and works well, but the A/C companies have told me that with the new refrigerant it makes more sense to just replace everything. Evidently with the new refrigerant there is a complementary relationship between all the equipment utilizing the new refrigerant which makes some sense to me.

The irony is the heater definetly needs replacing, but I'm more concerned about the air conditioning since here in Houston it is brutally hot the majority of the year. Fortunately, I've spoken to a few contractors that I like and I feel as though they will do good work. What I'm faced with now is choosing the right equipment and options. I don't mind spending money on options if I gain something from it, but for some of this I don't have any reference point and I'm looking for advice from others.

After talking this through a bit I have settled on a few things I know that I want. First, the best units we have been recommended are 16 seer (5 ton) for our house. Also, I'm sold on having one with variable speed.

1. Also, I've just about settled on American Standard or Carrier (Infinity). Is there any reason to choose one over the other?


American Standard is what I would recommend. It's hard to stop a Trane!


2. The current unit we have is mounted vertically in a closet. One company is recommending that we spend the money for a horizontal unit and put it in the attic. I'm a little conflcted here since I love the thought of removing the unit more to lessen noise and I also like the idea of easily being able to get to the coils in a horizontal unit, however, our attic gets extremelyhot and something tells me having the unit in the closet vertically has helped with keeping the air colder since it is somewhat insulated by the second floor rather than the attic. Does that make sense at all? If the additional money isn't a concern is it always better to have a horizontal unit in the attic opposed to a vertical unit in the closet?



Units in your closet mean easier access for service techs which mean quicker service turnarounds.


3. One company is recommending the addition of a U/V light to help clean the air and the coils. The cost isn't that much when compared to the complete cost so it makes sense to just have it installed if it does anything. Do these really work? Any reason not to have one installed?


U/V lights will benefit every occupant!


4. This same company has additionally given us the option of adding Electronic Air Purification System. This is a significant cost and adds about 20% to the whole job. Do these really work? My wife does have some allergies and if I thought this might help then it may be worth it. I just don't have any frame of reference to know whether they really work.


Electronic Air Purification Systems do what they were made to do very well. Benefits from EAC's is that you won't have to spend $50-60 dollars on 4" pleaded filter ever 3-6 months depending on how much dust your home picks up. That's $100-$200 every year/$500-$1000 every five/$1000-$5000 every 10 years.





That should help.

[classical]

That should help.

Brand has very little to do with the ultimate end result just building science and proper installation commissioning procedures.

Already been over the pros and cons of closet system in Houston there are no absolutes.

Why will everyone benefit from a UV light; I say not true mostly snake oil.

Even with an EAC filters are needed and most homeowners do not want to pull and cleaner their cells every few months and they should be cleaned at least every thirty days. As the cells build up dirt they lose their efficiency to the point of being ineffective.

[universaltech]

^No

[classical]

Btw classical, I am in no way questioning you or anything remotely close to that, I was only wondering the specifics of how it can and does work as such as in tighter "envelope" and if it is 4 tons of cooling of the entire home at all times or is it zoned off so in actuality it's only 2000 sq feet at a time or what, so on and so forth.

Preston as I have explained before most homes in Houston regardless of age have grossly oversized systems, it is just that they are so poorly installed that they underperform many times by as much 50 %. That means many homes with 5-tons are only getting 2.5-tons of cooling.

The homes I speak of are all over Houston and no they do not have foam in the walls or anything extreme just properly sized and installed that is all.

[classical]

^No

Yes you have nine years and I have 40 years experience I will go with my knowledge over yours.

[jtrammel]

2. Something I forgot to mention in the previous post that others might ask, that is, there are (thank goodness) a ton of soffitts around the perimeter of the roof. I think this is very good because it allows air to come in to the attic from the outside. However, what I can't figure out is whether the single powered vent fan is enough to pull out air for the whole attic. There aren't any gables and I wish I had a roof vent, but I don't. I just wonder whether a lot of this hot air in the summer is just getting bundled in the attic too much or whether the vent is really doing its job and pulling out an ample amount of air. The darn powered fan is relatively new too and it is still very loud. I bought basically the best one I could find but, if someone said a whirlybird would do just as much as good I would be inclined to quickly replace it.

IMHO powered attic ventilators are a bad choice in any situation the fan doesn't know where it pulls air from whether it comes from the soffit or through the attic floor which is air that you've paid to cool. I disconnect them when I come across them bc all they do is make your attic a neg pressure with reference to your house pulling cooled air out of your house and decreessing capacity/efficiency of AC. The PAV is prob why you may need a 5 ton. I hope for your own sake you would listen to us and get a load calculation and home energy audit before you buy IT WILL BENEFIT YOU NOT ME! You are asking for advice we have given it but you aren't listening!!!

[universaltech]

Yes you have nine years and I have 40 years experience I will go with my knowledge over yours.

Touché



40 years doesn't mean a thing. Old school needs to keep up with the new school grandpa.

[classical]

40 years doesn't mean a thing. Old school needs to keep up with the new school grandpa.

Son I assure you I am on the leading edge of technology and ten years is a rookie; sorry. And yes I am a Grandpa and proud of both my grand children.

You should read some empirical studies on "UV" lights and EAC filtration systems start with the ones by Purdue University.

The best "UV" light system for residential is made by Sanuvox and it only affects at best 30% of the airflow at any given time. There is not enough residence time for the air in the airstream to affectively reduce bacteria or viruses. "UV" lights are only good for cleaning coils and new properly installed coils they are cleaned prior to installation and have a good media filter DO NOT NEED A "UV" light. Since you are considering cost the lights will cost more than the filters ever will.

[Roadhouse]

Preston as I have explained before most homes in Houston regardless of age have grossly oversized systems, it is just that they are so poorly installed that they underperform many times by as much 50 %. That means many homes with 5-tons are only getting 2.5-tons of cooling.

The homes I speak of are all over Houston and no they do not have foam in the walls or anything extreme just properly sized and installed that is all.

Will you freakin' hire me already, just let me ride around with you and I'll pay you perhaps?

I know, I couldn't pay you enough. :)

[Mr Bill]

Touché
40 years doesn't mean a thing. Old school needs to keep up with the new school grandpa.


Why does anyone think just because were 58-59-60 etc. that we still do things the old school way. There are "new" school folks I see everyday, that are no more than salesmen, if "some" of them actually had to fix something, their brain would smoke, like a low voltage transformer hooked up backwards. Trust me, there are old and new folks, that keep up with all the new technology, and there are old and new folks, that still do it the old school way, that followed their Dad's footsteps. I ask questions, if I don't know something, not to much pride here to ask a question, the main thing is I am still willing to learn as much as possible..... :yes:

[JPW1]

IMHO powered attic ventilators are a bad choice in any situation the fan doesn't know where it pulls air from whether it comes from the soffit or through the attic floor which is air that you've paid to cool. I disconnect them when I come across them bc all they do is make your attic a neg pressure with reference to your house pulling cooled air out of your house and decreessing capacity/efficiency of AC. The PAV is prob why you may need a 5 ton. I hope for your own sake you would listen to us and get a load calculation and home energy audit before you buy IT WILL BENEFIT YOU NOT ME! You are asking for advice we have given it but you aren't listening!!!

So if you don't have a ridge vent in the roof what do you suggest to get the hot air out of the attic? Naturally, I could easily turn it off or replace it with a whirlybird, but I'm not sure I see a recommendation for what to do in place of a PAV. I'm assuming you need some way to have the hot air escape.

I'm not dismissing the load calculation and would be interested to see what the results might be, but I just checked the Comfort Institute web site and found that the one company within 25 miles of me that does this is actually 1 of the 2 companies I'm already discussing with and they never suggested a load calculation. I think they assumed as I did that since the house was built with a 5 ton A/C this is what was still required.

So if I don't have someone listed on the Comfort Institute web site and I still wish to get a load calculation done with a home energy audit what do I do? Do I just need to start randomly calling HVAC companies?

[classical]

So if you don't have a ridge vent in the roof what do you suggest to get the hot air out of the attic? Naturally, I could easily turn it off or replace it with a whirlybird, but I'm not sure I see a recommendation for what to do in place of a PAV. I'm assuming you need some way to have the hot air escape.

I'm not dismissing the load calculation and would be interested to see what the results might be, but I just checked the Comfort Institute web site and found that the one company within 25 miles of me that does this is actually 1 of the 2 companies I'm already discussing with and they never suggested a load calculation. I think they assumed as I did that since the house was built with a 5 ton A/C this is what was still required.

So if I don't have someone listed on the Comfort Institute web site and I still wish to get a load calculation done with a home energy audit what do I do? Do I just need to start randomly calling HVAC companies?

Give me a call we are BPI certified and we do energy audits which include load calculations, blower door test and evaluating the attic ventilation. Look in my profile and you can send me an E-mail or phone.

[jtrammel]

So if you don't have a ridge vent in the roof what do you suggest to get the hot air out of the attic? Naturally, I could easily turn it off or replace it with a whirlybird, but I'm not sure I see a recommendation for what to do in place of a PAV. I'm assuming you need some way to have the hot air escape.

I'm not dismissing the load calculation and would be interested to see what the results might be, but I just checked the Comfort Institute web site and found that the one company within 25 miles of me that does this is actually 1 of the 2 companies I'm already discussing with and they never suggested a load calculation. I think they assumed as I did that since the house was built with a 5 ton A/C this is what was still required.

So if I don't have someone listed on the Comfort Institute web site and I still wish to get a load calculation done with a home energy audit what do I do? Do I just need to start randomly calling HVAC companies?

I assume by whirlybird you mean a turbine type ventilator? If so they still have moving parts that could seize up therefore not work properly but yes i would definately recommend a turbine ventilator over a PAV. Non mechanical fixed low profile roof vents (turtle vents) would be a better solution than the turbine IMHO but even better would be a ridge vent mainly because of appearance rather than operational reasons, if installed correctly they both work as well as the other for removing the heat. If installing gable vents you have to make sure they are installed properly, usually they have to be one every 2 feet or so.
If they didn't do a load calculation then i wouldn't buy from them. Before dismissing them I would call and ask if they would perform a load calculation on your home. Lots of houses, when they are built, the builder hires the hvac contractor to do the hvac on the house or houses that he is building. Lots of times the builder will pay x amount of dollars per ton installed. Therefore the hvac contractor will install the largest piece of equipment possible to get paid top dollar. This is one reason most new homes are grossly oversized. Another reason is that there are lots of "hvac contractors" that don't know how to do a load calc or are too lazy to do one. Two houses of the same layout/size built by same builder right across the street from each other can have two totally different heat gain/loss loads simply because of the directions the walls of the house are facing. This is why there is absolutely no way that you can say this house needs X tons of AC without performing a load calc. Also with that said even doing a load calculation without performing a thermal envelope test (blower door test) there is no way to know the infiltration rate of the home (leaky, average, tight) without doing the test and having the computer software to generate an actual infiltration rate for that house. So even a load calc without a blower door test is still a guess but its an educated guess rather than a SWAG.
I assure you that if you inquire about load calculation/home energy audit with this company then they will gladly do a load calculation. They probably will charge a small fee for the home energy audit but i assure you it is well worth it and you will be enlightened to some things that you can fix on your own. Lots of companies will shy away from trying to sell the home energy audit on a replacement lead because lots of homeowners are scared away when we try to charge for an estimate when everyone else is giving free estimates. If they are not willing to perform a load calculation then i would suggest finding a reputable company that will.

[jtrammel]

Give me a call we are BPI certified and we do energy audits which include load calculations, blower door test and evaluating the attic ventilation. Look in my profile and you can send me an E-mail or phone.

Call classical, he's not gonna be the cheapest probably but if you want it done right then have him do it. This guy really knows his stuff.

[classical]

Call classical, he's not gonna be the cheapest probably but if you want it done right then have him do it. This guy really knows his stuff.

Thamk You!

[JPW1]

Thanks for all the input. I sincerely appreciate it. I've scheduled an energy audit with "classical" and looking forward to meeting him. I'm sure it will help answer many of the questions I have.

However, as I look to arm myself with more information I have some additional items I'm still curious about that I suspect the energy audit may not be able to answer:

1. I've been looking at options that may improve air quality and it is a slipperly slope. You can really move in to information overload quickly. Here is where I stand now. U/V lights seem to be sort of a no-brainer given their small cost when compared to the rest of the system. If they offer any improvement with any portion of the system then it probably makes sense to add them. However, the cost to add an Aprilaire 5000 is significant. Most of the data I have found around these seems somewhat dated (well before 2009). If I thought it would significantly improve air quality then I would probably use it, but I have read where others state it can restrict air flow too much and in many cases aren't offering much of an improvement. Many seem to think the media filter will offer just as much improvement. Does there happen to be a true consensus around this product (Aprilaire 5000)? Is it really worth the money?

2. I've also been reading some comments regarding single stage vs. variable HVAC's. Initially, it seemed to me the variable units were the way to go. They reflect high efficiency and what I like the most is how they are supposed to help more with humidity (i.e. they may run longer at low speed and pull more moisture out of the air). However, now that I read a little more some stress the variable units really aren't "delivering" as expected. Again, is there a consensus on this topic as well? Do variable units really help with humidity control or is just something that looks good on paper?

3. All my thoughts around humidity have now led to yet another product, whole-house dehumidifiers. None of the HVAC companies I've met with have mentioned these and I don't know anyone that has them installed in Houston (although I'm sure they are out there). What I'm wondering is whether this is a better solution with a single-stage system than perhaps a variable unit? I think the whole-house dehumidifiers give you complete control over humidity. Any thoughts here?

Thanks again for the help. As a consumer it can be difficult to gain expert unbiased information and I appreciate any guidance.

[commerce48]

1. I don't think you should purchase equipment based on cost. UV lights are not needed for most installations, especially ones that are installed correctly. They require changing frequently, and the electric cost to run them is not insignificant.

Unless you have health concerns, there is no reason to buy expensive air cleaners. Your HVAC will be no better off. Some say worse off in fact, because EAC's if not properly maintained, they do not perform as well as ordinary 4" media filters. Some are more restrictive. Some can make noise.

2. You may be mixing up terms here. Variable speed usually refers to more efficient "ECM" based blower motors (versus "PSC" ordinary motors). Two stage or better furnaces and AC's can better adapt to the usually low heating and cooling needs while still providing capacity for the hottest/coolest days. Two stage AC's can help with humidity removal, and variable speed motors allow for even more humidity removal.

3. The Houston environment and your particular house, if leaky, may well benefit from a whole house dehumidifier. However, even in Houston, a well designed HVAC system, not just the AC and air handler but in particular the duct design and implementation, may control the humidity in the comfort range. Your money may be better spent on sealing your home against outside infiltration - which is the source of excess humidity. No doubt classical, with his local experience, should be able to provide a better picture on your best options.