View Full Version : Johnson to Tridium
03-08-2005, 05:45 AM
Anyone working with Tridium? What is involved with bringing a Johnson system into the big T? Would I replace the N2 with JACE's?
03-08-2005, 10:17 AM
The N2 controllers stay right where they are - Tridium does not yet have unitary-type controllers with any real level of I/O (although that's rumored to be right around the corner). BACnet is the key to getting JCI stuff into Tridium - an N30 programmed to broadcast each needed point will be easily detected by the JACE, and it's Tridium programming from there...
Alternatively, without an N30, a clever person could configure Tridium's Configurable Serial Driver to emulate the N2 protocol (since you can't buy an N2 driver from Tridium anymore), then you'd wire the N2 trunk straight into the JACE's RS-485 port. But such a person would have to be mighty clever, and then I'd want to know exactly how he did it...
03-08-2005, 10:50 AM
Tridium rep here just finished of N1 driver to bring in a very large JCI installation.
03-08-2005, 12:20 PM
Now that would be handy!! Mind you, PMI has some fairly decent scheduling, trending, alarming, etc., etc., but M-Web is fairly expensive, and Tridium has some fairly advanced Web features, so I could see the potential for a Tridium addition to an N1 installation. I wonder if this will actually give Johnson's extended architecture (NIE, NAE) a run for its money.
03-26-2005, 08:42 AM
is the N1 driver for tridium commercially available? We we be installing an enflex g-100 web server on top of an old 5 slot ncm next week utilizing their N1 driver.
rumor has it that JCI will be licensing the tridium platform for their ABCS channel. It will have the N2 driver and of course LON.
03-28-2005, 07:07 PM
It is rumored that the new Johnson front end is a Tridium JACE controller. You definitely can bring the n2 bus in through the configurable serial driver or as suggested use a n30 to a Tridium front end using BACnet ip.
03-30-2005, 11:39 AM
A Company called Field Server makes a nice interface that converts N2 to just about any protocol that Triduim can read, LON, BACnet/IP, etc. http://www.fieldserver.com
03-30-2005, 02:59 PM
Field Server provides a "Gateway" Only. Tridium integrates just about anything into a common object model. http://www.Tridium.com
03-30-2005, 04:57 PM
So does Plexus or Inet Supervisor at a much lower price.
I think you will see more non-proprietary solutions in the near future than the proprietary Niagra Framework.
03-30-2005, 08:45 PM
Tridium uses a JAVA/XML protocol to program with a thin client web server. Every protocol BACnet, Lon, ModBus etc.. requires "propritary" configuration software to set up the controllers. And if you are just talking about a web server then Tridium is more expensive. But if you are integrating a variety of different protocols to the web, Tridium is more cost effective than a Plexus front end which uses a Field Server gateway. Nothing in the controls industry today is cheap. And Tridium isn't the easiest product to use.
03-31-2005, 06:57 AM
If I am setting up my LON network I can take my pick of network tools. I can also take my pick or use a combination of front ends. The only sticking points are OEM's like Trane that use their own style of plugin and vendors like H-well that don't put the programming software into a plugin. If I would stick to companies like Circon, Douglas, and Echelon I don't need any extra software or proprietary software for programmables. You know, NONE.
....and I don't need a proprietary framework to throw in web servers at a very low cost.
Can't do that with BACnet or Modbus. They require proprietary network tools.
Maybe you want to clarify your LON position. And, the ilon100 is very cheap $/point.
03-31-2005, 09:44 PM
Look I integrate all types of control systems. Reguardless of the brand of controls you have to buy software to integrate. Don't you have to pay for credits to bind LNS networks? Don't you have to pay for Lon Maker Software? Proprietary just means they want you to buy their software and training. The good news is that the availability for integrating systems is getting better everyday. The companies that were the worst offenders have had to go to the standard protocols like Lon & BACnet (mainly due to sales in the European Union) leaving themselves open to creative individuals that don't necessarily have to be at their mercy.
03-31-2005, 10:44 PM
I pay for credits. I pay for Lonmaker, or Circon NI, or Distech. I interchange the universal database between the softwares. I can use Distech software to completely setup Circon devices or vice-versa. One software package. Pick one.
-not nearly as much as you pay for Tridium's Niagra Framework. You don't pay for credits, but you pay dearly elsewhere.
Also, my web servers aren't tied to some proprietary framework. Easily interchanged. Once you are in the framework your options are zero.
04-01-2005, 02:06 PM
You have to make choices on every job. Distech (which I have installed) and Circon are fine companies with good products. The Databases are "universal" if its made LNS. But that's only part of the equation. What if you have to integrate to a BACnet Chiller. You have to buy a Fieldserver gateway and your $ advantage disappears. Now, what if you have to bring the job to the web (Plexus, TAC,iLon, etc.. you have even more costs. What if you have integrate an existing Johnson, or Trane or B.C. even more costs than the others. The universal database is a myth, any job with any level of integration will require a "custom" database. You should get used to the idea that there will be more than one protocol being used. However I do believe the power of the internet is changing perceptions, and in the near future we may see something like TCP/IP with XML as the universal language.
04-01-2005, 04:52 PM
I can buy an iLon or fieldserver or a whack of other multiplatform gateways, buy picking up the phone and ordering them.
If I want to buy a jace I got to cough up 15K to become certified. Beg/pay for a license for every module I want to load into it. Next guy that comes along to work on it needs the license changed to their name, on and on, and on.
Big T is good for locking down the customer. Hmmm..., tell me again why is that big boys like Siemens, Invensys are promoting it.
But again if you like it, go for it.
04-01-2005, 06:45 PM
Anyway, it's called oBIX and it's coming soon to you.
When an ilon is about $0.50/point I can buy alot of fieldservers for all the proprietary BACnet systems out there.
You are too used to BACnet where everyone is doing their own thing. Why would an owner want to use it?
Tridium is laughing all the way to the bank because of BACnet.
Anyway, if oBIX gets kicked into high gear look for a change in Tridium pricing. With the way they license and lockdown, I'm surprised more owners don't pass on it.
There is no reason in todays market to have a mixed system.
04-16-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by steves4
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