Furnace choice - Amana, Carrier, Lennox

[so-cool]

I am a homeowner and I need to replace my 15 year old Armstrong 100,000 BTU furnace. I have a two story home ~ 2700 sq ft. plus ~ 900 sq ft finished basement in central Indiana. I received quotes on the following systems:

1) Amana AMV91155 115,000 BTU, 10 years parts and labor warranty (although I thought the rep told me 20 years but he wrote 10 years on the quote), lifetime warranty heat exchanger, 2 stage, variable speed.

2) Lennox G61V 110,000 BTU, 10 years parts 5 years labor warranty, lifetime warranty heat exchanger, 2 stage, variable speed.

3) Carrier 58UVB 100,000 BTU, 10 years parts and labor warranty, lifetime warranty heat exchanger, 2 stage, variable speed.

4) Carrier 58MVC100 100,000 BTU, 10 years parts and labor warranty, lifetime warranty heat exchanger, 2 stage, variable speed.


Two of the companies – the one for Amana and the Carrier 58MVC - did load calculations. Once the Amana dealer did the load calculation he said I could get by with a 90,000 BTU instead of 115,000. The Carrier 58UVB dealer said he could get a Payne (which I guess is made by Carrier) furnace to match my A/C unit. I am not sure if having the furnace be the same brand as the A/C is that important. Also, the Payne’s labor warranty was not as good as the Carrier’s labor warranty.

From what I have read so far is that how the system is installed is just as important as the brand name. But I want to know is there a significant difference in the quality/performance of the systems I described above? The dealer for the Carrier 58MVC100 included a Honeywell VisionPro thermostat which I thought was important since I read that you need/want a thermostat that takes advantage of the 2 stage furnaces. Cost wise the Amana was the most expensive with the Carrier 58UVB the least expensive, with the Carrier 58MVC and Lennox in the middle. I was told each of the systems qualified for the tax credit. I believe each of the companies would do a good of installing the system. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[mwjhvac]

Throw out anyone who did not do a load calc, It is all about the install.

[seuadr]

i really don't know what advantage there would be to having your furnace matching your ac unit would be, so long as the coil is dimensionally going to fit the furnace.

[beenthere]

Is your old furnace an 80% or 90% efficient furnace?

[BaldLoonie]

So the Amana dealer says his 90K will do but quoted the 115? That's a lot of furnace! If your existing furnace is not a 90%, then probably all of the 100K+ bids are too big. We see so many oversized furnaces and that is not efficient.

The MVC is the 3 stage and should have an Infinity control only for proper control.

The UVB is 2 stage, it would great with a VP IAQ.

Any labor warranty is not standard. Ask the dealer who is covering it? The manufacturers own extended warranty? Their warranty? What happens if they sell out which has been happening a lot lately?

Payne doesn't have a 2 stage variable speed furnace last I knew so you'd really be going down a level if you go that route.

[so-cool]

Is your old furnace an 80% or 90% efficient furnace?

The old furnace is 90%.

[so-cool]

So the Amana dealer says his 90K will do but quoted the 115? That's a lot of furnace! If your existing furnace is not a 90%, then probably all of the 100K+ bids are too big. We see so many oversized furnaces and that is not efficient.

The MVC is the 3 stage and should have an Infinity control only for proper control.

The UVB is 2 stage, it would great with a VP IAQ.

Any labor warranty is not standard. Ask the dealer who is covering it? The manufacturers own extended warranty? Their warranty? What happens if they sell out which has been happening a lot lately?

Payne doesn't have a 2 stage variable speed furnace last I knew so you'd really be going down a level if you go that route.

The old furnace is 90%.

The dealers were covering the warranty. So will ask them what happens if they are purchased by another company.

Does the 3-stage MVC provide any better heating than the 2 stage furnaces? In other words will a typical homeowner notice any difference?

[acadiantech]

Hi,
I would go for a Carrier, if properly installed. Your old furnace was giving you 90000btu output(100000btu@90%), the carrier would give you 95000btu(95%), I would stay away from 110000btus and above. If the heat loss is right at 90000btu output you were bang on!

I worked for a Carrier dealer for 8 yrs, but we were also selling ICP(Keeprite, Heil) as our entry level models and dropped Carrier a year before I left the company to sell Trane instead.
I have serviced most major brands including Lennox, York, Coleman, Luxair, keeprite, Amana, Goodman, Miller and more and have to say that we had very little Warranty claims for Carrier, Their heat exchanger seems to last very well overtime. I had myself a 58mvb for 6 yrs with the Infinity stat and had zero problems. I will install another Carrier in my new house next spring!
If you like tight control on humidity with your AC in the summer and heating in winter, go for the MVC with Infinity Stat.(it might be extra for the Stat). If Efficiency is your priority I would suggest the 58mvb which has the infinity capacity but is close to 97% instead of 95% from the other two. It has 2 stages instead of 3.
I havent worked much in residential for the last 7 years so am not up to speed in the newer products, but can tell you that carrier hasn't change their design much since the 90s, which is a good thing. The 58Mvc is new to me!
Stay away from ICP products has they have terrible reputation, especially for their secondary heat exchangers.

Hopefully this is helpful!
Good Luck.

[acadiantech]

Btw the difference between 2 or 3 stages is that when the furnace runs on low fire (mild weather) it will be quieter has the induced fan and indoor blower will run at a lower Rpm, so it will be barely noticeable. The furnace will only run on the highest stage on cold days or when the program from the stat calls for a few degrees. So having 3 stages reduce the amount of time the furnace has to run on the highest stage. This is probably why Carrier claims it to be their most quiet furnace. Also reduce the amount of cycles which helps on how long the moving parts will last.

[beenthere]

Stay away from ICP products has they have terrible reputation, especially for their secondary heat exchangers.



Strange. Since ICP is owned by Carrier.

[hvacvegas]

Strange. Since ICP is owned by Carrier.

Truely.

That amana warranty isn't 20 years. Sounds like he's confusing the 10 year parts and labor with the goodman HX warranty, which I believe is 20 years.
Amana is 10 year parts + labor, lifetime on Heat exchanger.

I don't know the carrier model numbers, nor their warranty. If the carrier warranty is the same as the amana warranty, I would go carrier. Especially if it's an Infinity.
I put an amana in my house for a few reasons. One of them was my pricing.

The main part was warranty.

[RandomNick]

Strange. Since ICP is owned by Carrier.

Some companies acquire other companies but allow the acquired organization to remain fairly independent (it continues to pursue its own designs, choose its own parts, etc) so the parent and acquired subdivision products remain substantially different. I can't tell, but just superficially perusing the Carrier and ICP lines I get the impression that they are more dissimilar than similar. Would you or someone else care to point out the error in this impression of mine?

[beenthere]

Some companies acquire other companies but allow the acquired organization to remain fairly independent (it continues to pursue its own designs, choose its own parts, etc) so the parent and acquired subdivision products remain substantially different. I can't tell, but just superficially perusing the Carrier and ICP lines I get the impression that they are more dissimilar than similar. Would you or someone else care to point out the error in this impression of mine?

You have no background in the ICP units.

I know what models he is talking about. Carrier changed the design of the ICP units shortly after they bought them back in 96 or so.

[RandomNick]

You have no background in the ICP units.

In any of this stuff!


I know what models he is talking about. Carrier changed the design of the ICP units shortly after they bought them back in 96 or so.

So would you feel as comfortable purchasing (for yourself) a Carrier brand system as an ICP brand system?

[beenthere]

I used to sell and Install Tempstar. Tempstar is an ICP brand. So yes, I would feel comfortable installing one in my place. If I decided not to use a York.

[acadiantech]

I was actually installing/servicing both Icp and Carrier in 2000 when the merger happened, Icp did change their designed then and we had a huge amount of warranty claims at the time, and Icp was terrible at keeping stock of parts and paying for our claims. We ended up selling entry level Carriers to our customers on a budget until we got goodman as our budget line with Carrier as our flagship. Carrier is still completely different from Icp as far as design and configuration. Being out of residential for the last couple yrs I dont know how well they are now.