Trane 16i installation questions

[13brv3]

Greetings,

I just had a 4 ton 16i, and variable speed air handler installed, but unfortunately, the people who installed it are not inspiring me with confidence that it's set up properly. For example, they installed the air handler with the default switch settings, which don't allow the enhanced mode to work. They only changed this when I called them back because my variable speed airhandler wasn't doing anything but turning on full blast. They would have left it that way forever if I hadn't caught it, so I have to wonder what else they did wrong.

I've tried to confirm the way they wired it up, but it doesn't seem to conform to any of the options in the installation book. I could post the wiring at the air handler if needed, but I haven't checked the other end of the wiring at the thermostat, or outside unit.

My first, most basic question is about the 16i's two stage compressor. I was under the impression that it can run at two different speeds, or capacities, almost like a true dual compressor unit. Is the switching for this two stage feature done internally to the 16i, or does it have to be treated by the thermostat as a dual compressor unit? There's a setting on the XT500C thermostat that has the option of "one cooling cyle, and 2 heating cycles", or "two cooling cycles, and 3 heating cycles". Mine is set to the first choice, but I wonder if the two stage compresser means it should be set to the second.

The next question is whether the air handler fan should run slower when the 16i is in it's lower "stage" mode? At the moment, mine seems to do just what the book says for enhanced mode, where it ramps up to 50%, then 80%, then 100%. This moves a lot more air than our previous unit did, and can get pretty noisy. My hope was that this variable speed air handler was going to be very quiet most of the time, but that hasn't been the case so far.

Any answers to the staging question would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Rusty

[siltout]

First of all, Rusty, you don't want to be opening things up and messin with wires to begin with. You may end up voiding warranties with the manufacturer. The correct diagram to use for the low voltage wiring would be "one stage cool, two stage heat". Also the speed of the outdoor compressor will not effect the speed of the indoor variable speed motor. That ramps up according the the dipswitch settings your mentioned before. If you really think the installers didn't do a good job with setting the system up, call the owner of the company or the supervisor, if your not satisfied with either of them, call Trane.

[BaldLoonie]

That stat can handle the 2 stage outdoor unit but comes factory set for std outdoor unit only. If they weren't smart enough to set up the VS indoor unit, they probably couldn't figure out how to use the keypad to set up the stat correctly.

If wired right, the air handler should move less air on stage 1 and ramp up to normal speed when stage 2 of the compressor calls. Electric heat has its own CFM setting. Y1 which is 1st stage comp would go to Ylo on the air handler telling the AH that the comp isn't running at 100%. This is 2 stage wiring to match the 2 stage outdoor unit you have!

[13brv3]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the comments. I only opened the unit up to verify the settings, and wiring. If I find any (further) reason to believe it's not set up properly, I'll certainly have them change it rather than doing it myself and voiding the warranty. As far as I can tell, it isn't set up like any of the 3 examples in the installers guide, so I'm not sure where that leaves me.

Another question is about a noise that the air handler makes as the heat starts to come on. It sounds just like a hard drive thrashing away for about 20 seconds. I'll ask them about that when they come back out to fix some other issues with the installation, but I already know what they'll say.

I guess I'd like to know more about just what the two stage compressor does. Can anyone recommend a site that will explain this?

I'm sorry to hear that the air handler fan won't run slower during normal operations. I've got two co-workers who've had 19i units installed, and they both rave about how you can't hear the air handler, and how it almost never goes into high speed mode. I'm now starting to worry that this is perhaps something that only works that way on the true two compressor unit. If I had known that, I'd have bought the 19i.

BTW, the last time they were out, it was their best two techs (who really did seem to know how the unit worked), and their manager. If you've got a phone number for Trane, I'd like to have it. Hopefully, it won't come to that though. I'd like to think they have everything right now, but for the money I paid for this thing, I expect it to 100% correct. Unfortunately, there were a number of things they promised and didn't deliver (yet), so they lost my trust from the very beginning.

Thanks for your time.
Rusty

[13brv3]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
If wired right, the air handler should move less air on stage 1 and ramp up to normal speed when stage 2 of the compressor calls.

This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Is there any way for me to tell when stage one is one, versus stage two? Can I hear the diff in the outdoor unit?

The biggest question is how do I, as a homeowner, convince the local compay's best techs, and manager that they don't have it set up properly?

Thank you very much!
Rusty

[mark beiser]

Your thermostat should be set up for 2 cool/3 heat. In the installer setup in the thermostat it needs to be told it is controlling 2 compressors for cooling and for heating. I know the system only has 1 compressor, but it does have 2 stages. If the thermostat is set for a 1 compressor system, it will never call Y2 for 2nd stage of the compressor for cooling or heating.

If your installer didn't know to set up the thermostat properly, I would question the control wiring too. Did they set the dip switches on the varriable speed controller for the correct indoor and outdoor unit sizes?


When everything is set up correctly, the airflow will be lower for first stage than it is for 2nd stage. Your first stage cooling/heating output will be higher than your friends XL19i system, but otherwise should operate in a similar fassion.

[Edited by mark beiser on 01-24-2005 at 08:00 PM]

[golan37]

You need to get your installer back out there and pose the same questions to him. If the ductwork is capable of supporting 4 tons of airflow that system should be extremely quiet. Make sure they check it out completely in both speeds with gages on it.

[13brv3]

Thanks for the additional excellent info.

Mark, I suspected that it needed to be 2 cool/3 heat, but I asked the last tech if anything in the thermostat needed to be programmed, and he said no. Sigh....

I'm also willing to bet a reasonable sum of money that the control wiring is wrong as well. The dip switches seem reasonable (now) to me. 1,5,6, and 8 are on.

From the additional searching that I've done here, it seems that stage one is 67% capacity, and the AH can't match that capacity exactly. It sounds like it takes the next higher setting of 80%. If I read all the posts correctly, stage one will run at 80%, and stage two at 100%. Not as much difference as I'd like, but better than nothing.

Golan37, our ducting was originally set up for a 3.5 ton unit, but I don't know what CFM the old AH ran. I'm sure it was far less than this one is running though. So far, I haven't seen any instruments to measure airflow.

Again, I really appreciate the info and advice. My plan for tomorrow is to call the closest Trane office (Mobile AL), and have a chat with them. There are also issues of promised rebates that don't seem to exist, so before it's all over with, I might end up calling the giant home improvement store that sold me this unit, and telling them to have their folks come get it. Hopefully, it won't come to that.

Thanks again,
Rusty

[BaldLoonie]

I was looking at the instruction page. Low speed airflow is supposed to be 80% and high airflow is 100% of rated capacity.

[Stamas]

Did they do a new duct system or are you using the old duct system? Did they do a load calc for you. It just sounds like it is too big, too much air for the system. Found several V/S, 2-stg systems that were added onto smaller duct systems, thinking maybe boost the equipment size and not the ducts. For whatever reason. And you'll hear it, epsecially when the Aux. heat kicks on.
If they didn't bother to wire it right, I'd have to think they didn't do to well with the ductwork either.
BTW, was it a HD contractor?

[pstu]

I question what was the justification for going to a 4.0 ton air handler. From what I have heard it is far more likely the previous system was oversized rather than undersized. Had they downsized the system rather than upsizing it, perhaps there would be no duct problem.

It sounds as if they did not do any load calculation nor duct design. Possibly you might make this the central point of your discussion with the big-box store, and compel them to back up and reconsider their sizing decision. From all that I have heard, if they didn't do a Manual J load calculation or some calculation corresponding to that, then they just threw some crap at the wall to see if it would stick. Demand to see their load calculations.

I am a homeowner. Got a 4.0 ton American Standard variable speed air handler to "match" a 2-year-old 3.5 ton Trane AC, when there was previously a decrepit old 3-ton air handler. It was what the AC company recommended, I thought it was innocent and conservative enough at the time. However the default 1400 CFM airflow revealed what was an inadequate duct design. Some of the ducts got above 700 ft/min airspeed and became noisy until I scaled down the air flow to 350 CFM/ton, around 1225 CFM. So I am speaking from experience of how to do some things wrong. My longer term hope is to justify a downsizing of AC, and then perhaps there will be no problem with the capacity of existing ductwork.

At this point in time, it would be well worth getting HVAC-CALC and spending a couple hours measuring walls and getting your own load calculation. If your required tonnage is way different from what was installed, you can proceed arguing with the big-box store knowing that you are right and they were wrong. Build your case solidly and you should better off in every way.

Because of the amount of money involved and the cost of being wrong, I would still work toward getting a pro to do his load calc as well. Then compare it with yours and see where the two differ, and discuss that.

Best of luck -- P.Student

[Edited by perpetual_student on 01-25-2005 at 10:43 AM]

[13brv3]

Thanks for the additional comments.

Our house was built 13 years ago, and was part of a Gulf Power Good Cents Home program that was supposed to insure energy efficiency. The ducting is all 1.5" board, rather than the 1" that you see in many houses, and it all appears to be in excellent shape, and well constructed.

The old unit was a 3.5 ton Rheem (that caused me years of grief). The big box store, to their credit, spent quite a bit of time measuring windows, rooms, phases of the moon, etc, and also calculated the load requirement to be 3.5 ton. Their original recommendation was the 14i system, which is available in 3.5 ton, but but I wanted one of the higher efficiency models. The 16i and 19i only come in whole number ton units, so the choice is 3 or 4. As I understand it, the staged compressor (if installed correctly), and variable speed AH should make 4 ton the preferred choice. This is Florida BTW.

No one has measured any airflow in the ducting, and I don't know what the previous Rheem unit was capable of flowing, but it's obvious that the current AH can produce considerably more flow. That's certainly the noise issue, and I'm hoping that can be limited by getting the unit to operate on a lower speed most of the time as I believe it's inteded to do.

I'll be calling Trane in a few minutes, so stay tuned.

Thanks,
Rusty

[pstu]

I am heartened that the big box store's AC contractor has tried to size the system correctly. In all probability they did not err there. The Florida climate is not terribly different from some parts of S. Texas so we have something in common there. We had some Good Cents home programs here also, in our locale there were some problems with implementation -- the concept was sound but sloppy construction could still spoil things. Texans do *not* tend to be fastidious when it comes to home construction, hope Floridans are better.

To me it seems there are likely issues purely with installation, just as you originally said. Maybe your problems will go away when you find and fix those.

Trane/A-S must have their good reasons for going in 1-ton increments with VS systems. I don't know why but would like to. In your climate there is plenty of reason to pursue high efficiency, as many hours as your system must run during the year.

In the event your duct system is inadequate, I think it is probably something you would want fixed with either system. Return sizing is commonly too small, it was fixed in my house by adding some additional return ducts. Supply duct sizing *can* be too small (as it is in my case) but perhaps there is an obvious way to add capacity without tearing out and rebuilding the whole system.

Manual D is the pro's tool for duct design, it seems this is somewhat more sophisticated than Manual J. I suggest trying to get your contractor to do a Manual D calculation as a possible solution to your problems. Dash works in your state and seems to be an expert and huge advocate of using Manual D, is it possible you could call on him?

Best of luck -- P.Student

[13brv3]

Not much news to update.

I spoke with the big box store, and explained my position on this. They are supposed to be having a Trane rep call me to set up a time where they can come out and inspect the unit themselves. Hopefully, this will be without the local contractor present, but I'm not sure how it will work. About 6 hours later, and no call so far.

I emailed the manager of the local contractor, and explained my position to them as well. Basically, they owe me the promised rebate, and Trane will have to demonstrate that the unit is working properly. Unless both of those things happen, I will demand that they remove the unit, and refund my money. It's their choice.

For the record, even if it gets pulled out, which probably isn't likely, I'd go back with the same unit, or maybe a 19i. Certainly it would be a Trane.

Thanks, and stay tuned.
Rusty

[jrbenny]

1.) Installing contractor will be present with Trane rep. It's standard policy.

2.) If you have the Trane pulled, you will most likely not be doing business with Trane in the future. In the past when a system was I saw a system pulled, the consumer signed a waiver with some language indicating that no further equipment would be sold to them. So, if you want a Trane, you better let them get this system straight.

3.) Let the Trane rep get things straight. Most of those guys are pretty good. Give him space when he's there. He doesn't need your help reading wiring diagrams and comparing to what the contractor has done.

[dash]

Originally posted by jrbenny
1.) Installing contractor will be present with Trane rep. It's standard policy.

2.) If you have the Trane pulled, you will most likely not be doing business with Trane in the future. In the past when a system was I saw a system pulled, the consumer signed a waiver with some language indicating that no further equipment would be sold to them. So, if you want a Trane, you better let them get this system straight.

3.) Let the Trane rep get things straight. Most of those guys are pretty good. Give him space when he's there. He doesn't need your help reading wiring diagrams and comparing to what the contractor has done.

Great advice.
It may be a pain to go thru,but will likely be handled and no reason to expect further problems.Two stage equipment is what you want in Florida.They probably haven't installed very many,I know we messed up ,a little on the first few,training is required to get them set up correctly.

[13brv3]

I'll be happy to let the Trane rep work undisturbed, as I have every reason to expect that he/she will be able to straighten this out. The problem I have is with the local contractor, who I'll be stuck with for 10 years. Fortunately, once the system is set up properly, I should go a very long time without having to deal with the local contractor again.

I'm somewhat disturbed to hear that Trane would try to force me to stay with the current contractor, regardless of my reasons for being unhappy.

Thanks,
Rusty

[classicrock4you]

You are not stuck with the installing company for the extended warranty. You can transfer the warranty to any authorized Trane dealer for $20.

Nobody has mentioned this, but the 16i is not really a 2 speed unit as such. As I understand it, It uses the "offloading" principle found in commercial units

[pstu]

Classicrock, it would be nice if you could find the time to explain how the Trane 16i works. I thought it was a two speed unit too, until your post.

Thank you -- P.Student

[jrbenny]

The compressor has a constant speed motor. Unloading valve allows refrigerant to bypass portion of the scroll compression cycle. Thus, only 67% refrigerant capacity in first stage.

Indoor unit changes speeds based upon thermostat signal for first or second stage. Outdoor unit unloading valve opens and closes with respect to same thermostat signal.

If you can get it to load, there's a nice explanation on Copeland's website. My computer's not wanting to load it this morning. http://www.copeland-corp.com/cp_ac/cp_ac_1_.htm

[13brv3]

Thanks for the info. I couldn't get to the two-stage page either, but it's the first time I've ever seen how a scroll type compressor works. Very cool. Who thinks of these things :-)

BTW- 24 hours with no contact from Trane, the local installer, or the big box store. I've sent all the messages I'm going to, and made all the calls I intend to make. It's up to them now. If they don't contact me with a plan to resolve this by the end of the week, I'm telling them to take it out Monday morning. I'm still hoping it doesn't come to that, but Friday will be 3 weeks, and I think that's long enough to finish the inital installation.

Cheers,
Rusty

[pstu]

Were you the person who earlier had a Rheem that gave no end of troubles? Or maybe I am thinking of someone else?

[Edited by perpetual_student on 01-26-2005 at 03:42 PM]

[13brv3]

I'm sure it wasn't the worst unit on the planet, but it wasn't what I'd hope for. In 13 years, it probably generated about 20 service calls. The first few years were mysterious low freon calls, where no one could ever find the cause, and said it was normal. Eventually, the AH coil sprung a (detectable <g>) leak, and was replaced. The AH fan control board went out next. The outdoor unit lost an accumulator (?) to rust, which was as much my fault as any, since I let it get plugged up and collect water. The outdoor fan motor went. The unit started getting low on freon again for another several trips, and I was told the outdoor coil was leaking. A second opinion found a leaky valve, and said the coil was OK. About a year and a half later, the outdoor coil sprang an impressive leak, and that was the end of it.

As a humorous update, a guy drove up a few minutes ago, and said he was here to take a look at the unit. I asked if he was with Trane, and he said "no, I'm the county inspector". Needless to say, the unit failed the mechanical inspection on 4 counts. These are such basic items as the outdoor unit not being bolted down. This is one of the items I've been complaining about for 3 weeks, as well as the stand being far from level. I'm starting to wonder if this if the first unit these guys have ever installed... sheesh. Are you starting so see what I'm dealing with ?

Stay tuned for the seemingly never ending saga.

Rusty

[Stamas]

Damn

[gatorguy]

I just came across this post. I'll add my $.02.

The taystat500c should be set to 3 heat/2 cool as already mentioned.

The first stage compressor circuit, Y1, should be hooked to "Y" (NOT Ylo!) in the air handler, and then to the yellow pigtail in the condenser. The second stage compressor circuit, Y2, should be hooked to the "BK" terminal in the air handler, and then to the yellow/red pigtail in the condenser.

It is correct, the compressor has an unloading solenoid (24vac, but they apply DC current to energize it) which drops the capacity to about 70%. Trane wants the compressor to run unloaded 70-80% of the time.

When the "BK" terminal in any Trane air handler is not energized with 24VAC, the CFMs will be at 80% of the total. (Normally the enhanced mode is 50% of total CFM for 1 minute, 80% for 7.5 minutes, 100% for duration. If BK is not energized, EVERYTHING is 80% of what I just wrote. i.e. 80% of 50%, 80% of 80% and 80% of 100%)

So for this application, on first stage cooling BK will not be energized (Y1 is hooked to "Y") and the airflow will be 40% of total cooling CFM for 1 minute, then 60% for 7.5 minutes, then 80% of total for the duration of the call.

When the thermostat calls for second stage, Y2, the BK terminal is energized as the signal heads to the condenser and the blower speed is at full cooling CFMs. The compressor "loads" and is at full capacity.

If the unit is not wired like I described, the Trane guy will pick up on it right away (or should if he likes his job!).

So as you mentioned, the airflow does not exactly match the compressor capacity. On first stage, you have 70% compressor capacity and 80% of total cooling CFM. On second stage, obviously it matches at 100% and 100%.

Where do you live in Florida? I'm in Lake County, Central Florida. If you're around here, Ron Miller is the Trane guy you'll see.

[13brv3]

Wow, what an awesome first post!!! Thanks very much for the detailed info Gatorguy. With any luck, I won't have to print it out and give it to the local contractor as instructions.

I'm actually close to Pensacola, so I'm guessing there's a closer Trane rep in the area. I'm still hoping this all gets straightened out, but I'm starting to have my doubts if I'll have the unit that long.

Thanks again for a great post!

Rusty

[gatorguy]

Glad to be able to help.

You ought to do what you can to keep the unit. It seems to be a good design. It hasn't been out long enough for the final ruling to come down.

I know Jax has an office. I'm not sure who would be closest to you. Definitely not Trane Orlando which is who I deal with.

The "UltraTech" is basically what you have. The link is down now, but you can see a picture at this page: http://www.copeland-corp.com/cp_ac/cp_ac_1_1_3_.htm

Let us know how it turns out.

[13brv3]

I've been trying to get to that link about the UltraTech, and I'll be interested to see it when it comes back online.

Another question- how long does it usually take to get Trane scheduled to come in? I was told Tuesday morning that I'd be getting a call from Trane, but two days later, I've heard nothing. Even if they can't get here right away, it seems like someone could call to set up a time.

Maybe it's just a conspiracy to piss me off :-)

Thanks,
Rusty

[gatorguy]

Generally, in my experience, the Trane guys are more than willing to go to a job site of a homeowner that has not been satisfied by the contractor alone. They are usually very on the ball. I do not know exactly what is going on with your situation, but usually the delay is the contractor getting in touch with the FSR (Field Service Rep).

Did you contact Trane directly? Or are you waiting on the contractor to contact them? Trane really wants you to go through the contractor, so if it was your understanding that the contractor was going to be contacting Trane, you might want to call the contractor back and ask them what the status is. I know I have very quick access to our FSR if I really need it. We are a large Trane dealer, so I'm not sure if that effects things or not. YMMV.

Bottom line: Call the contractor and ask them when the appointment will be.

[centralflinstaller]

hate to say it but new construction in florida is pretty shady lowest bid, cheapest equip and if not using the cheapest bid means even if yoy payed for a infinity puron carrier the guys installing it don't know their head from a hole in the ground so you still don't get what you payed for..

[ckfga]

The answer on the 16i is yes the t-stat should be set up for 2 cooling and 3 heating.
It should also sound almost the same at the outdoor unit, the second stage is almost undectectable unless you are standing next to the unit.
These units are designed to run on low stage around 70 to 80% of the time.
I always use a pro 8000 TH8320 T-stat with unit and a c7089u outdoor temp sensor, This allows you to set many options as to how the unit performs depending on the outdoor temp.
As for the air-handler and the noise it sounds like the dip switches that control airflow may be set to high.
Hope this helps some with your question.

ckfga

[binford]

I don't have much time these days to cruise HVAC-talk, but this post is great, like watching T.V. can't wait for next week episode.

[dash]

Originally posted by gatorguy
I just came across this post. I'll add my $.02.

The taystat500c should be set to 3 heat/2 cool as already mentioned.

The first stage compressor circuit, Y1, should be hooked to "Y" (NOT Ylo!) in the air handler, and then to the yellow pigtail in the condenser. The second stage compressor circuit, Y2, should be hooked to the "BK" terminal in the air handler, and then to the yellow/red pigtail in the condenser.

It is correct, the compressor has an unloading solenoid (24vac, but they apply DC current to energize it) which drops the capacity to about 70%. Trane wants the compressor to run unloaded 70-80% of the time.

When the "BK" terminal in any Trane air handler is not energized with 24VAC, the CFMs will be at 80% of the total. (Normally the enhanced mode is 50% of total CFM for 1 minute, 80% for 7.5 minutes, 100% for duration. If BK is not energized, EVERYTHING is 80% of what I just wrote. i.e. 80% of 50%, 80% of 80% and 80% of 100%)

So for this application, on first stage cooling BK will not be energized (Y1 is hooked to "Y") and the airflow will be 40% of total cooling CFM for 1 minute, then 60% for 7.5 minutes, then 80% of total for the duration of the call.

When the thermostat calls for second stage, Y2, the BK terminal is energized as the signal heads to the condenser and the blower speed is at full cooling CFMs. The compressor "loads" and is at full capacity.

If the unit is not wired like I described, the Trane guy will pick up on it right away (or should if he likes his job!).

So as you mentioned, the airflow does not exactly match the compressor capacity. On first stage, you have 70% compressor capacity and 80% of total cooling CFM. On second stage, obviously it matches at 100% and 100%.

Where do you live in Florida? I'm in Lake County, Central Florida. If you're around here, Ron Miller is the Trane guy you'll see.


So how is the latent capacity,with the fan speed at 80% and capacity at 70% 0r less?I have heard it doesn't do a good job in humid climates,but matches up well with the 19I.

[gatorguy]

Here is a link to some information that may answer your question. I haven't heard any complaints about humidity levels yet. The variable speed blower is probably a big reason for that.

http://www.westernairsystems.com/downloads/guides/split_system_heatpump/4TWX6.pdf

[13brv3]

Thanks for all the additional info. So far, I still haven't heard from anyone, but it seems like the local contractor only works on Fridays, since they've been here the last three Fridays, and no other time. We'll see if they call today.

As for contacting Trane, I called Home Depot (there, I said it) Tuesday morning, and they were the ones who said I'd be getting a call from from Trane. I also emailed the local contractors (ARS Service Express), and told them of my conversation with Home Depot. So far, nothing, nada, zip.

If I continue to hear nothing, I'll be calling Home Depot Monday, to tell them that my new contractor will be leaving their unit next to the street. I'm sure that will get some renewed interest, and they might even get serious about fixing the problems. I'm not sure if I'm going to accept that at this point, though. It would be less hassle if they would actually fix everything, but at some point you have to draw the line. I'm just so angry, and frustrated at being treated like this, and I hate to reward their horrible workmanship and business practices by allowing the unit to stay. The ball's in their court until Monday morning.

Thanks,
Rusty

[41gasman]

Rusty,
I have been following this thread foe a while.
This kinda thing just really chaps my hide!
I don't know if I will ever be as "smart"
as some of the contractors out there.
I just can't grasp the concept of
spending the time and money to advertise.
Those booths at the big box stores are
not cheap.The big box gets their share.
Then after all that hard work and time
invested they get the lead.(that would be you)
You obviously stepped up to the plate
on this one.The 16I's aren't one of the
least spendy units out there.If you have
been reading many of the threads that
make up this forum. You would know that
you ARE the customer most of use love to
work for!!! You are able and willing
to spend Your hard earned money for a
Quality product with a high Quaity
installation.Not following though
with the problems that you have described
Just does not add up.You see I want
your business AND every one that you
know.And thoughs that they know!
THis is how I have succeeded.
P!ssing off customers because the
equipment apparently does not work
just BLOWS my mind.

Now when I was cutting my eye teeth
in this trade I was tought to check
and adjust all pressures,voltages
temperature rise,delta T's ext.
Anyone of us in here have missed
the boat a time or to.BUT there is
No excuse to not check the functions
of the equipment.IE,high and low fires,
on furnaces.High and low cooling cycles
And all the other cool stuff we
install.It is just to easy to get
distracted when you are programing
some of the t'stats.Or you have
fifteen + little wires hanging
out of the wall or air handeler.
It is not that hard to turn things
on and off.

Enough of me for now. I really
Hope all works out well for you
because you paid for it.And you have
come across as a pretty nice guy here.
And the Vs air handler with the 16I
Really does work well when all the
pretty little wires go to the right place.
Especially when all the little switchy
thingy are in their happy place:}

[13brv3]

Sad to say, but I never heard from Home Depot or ARS, and ARS didn't show up to fix the outside stand as promised. I've just sent a long email to Home Depot and ARS, and told them to schedule a day to come get it out, and refund my money. Stay tuned faithful readers.

Rusty

[dash]

ARS Service Express has a national website,did you send them a message as well?

[pstu]

In my opinion people lose about 20 IQ points when they sit down at a computer screen, so I do not expect the best behavior when I write an email. I would never rely on email for a matter of this importance. Here is what I think gets better results:

Get a name of someone a level higher up in the command chain, than the people you have previously spoken to. Get a FAX number thru which you can fax them a letter.

Write the letter up in business format. Fax it. Give them enough time to read it, then telephone that person directly and discuss the issues in the letter. It is not unusual to find that manager very cooperative toward any reasonable requests.

It has been my experience that the managers who can get things done, often don't read email. They do however, read letters written on PAPER. Go traditional. A faxed letter gets there instantly and is in a form every manager is willing to read. I am convinced it gets better respect from most managers.

And if that runs into a dead end, which it seldom does for me, you are entitled to get the name of a higher level manager. Climb the chain of command one rung at a time. When one of those guys phones their subordinate and says "what are you doing to this guy???" it generally causes the subordinate to get busy to satisfy his boss.

You may or may not want to take this advice, but I am convinced it is the way to handle people in a big organization like Home Depot, or any place big enough that things can fall between the cracks.

Best of luck -- P.Student

[Edited by perpetual_student on 01-31-2005 at 05:49 PM]

[bentruler]

I'm with that idea. Its amazing the action a letter to the correct manager will get. I've found that Lowes managers become more responsive when their disrict boss gets involved. No one wants to explain to their boss why leaving a customer feeling angry is the right thing for the business as long as the customer is being reasonable. Rarely will I start at the top, but I'm not beyond mailing the COO of United Air when things really go south.

Now with that said, when you get a good response be sure to take that persons info and act accordingly with a letter to their boss. I've found bosses are very happy to hear about someone who turned a bad story around. And lets face it, if the good guys get the rewards, maybe the co-workers will get the idea. I've also taken the time to find someone's boss when the level of service I get is high, and make sure they know how I feel. You can't just be the squeaky wheel.

[13brv3]

I appreciate all the replies. The emails I sent today have certainly received attention, but I think the words "refund my money" have more to do with it than the actual format of the message.

If ARS is willing to make this right, including the $500 rebate that they promised when we made this deal, then I'll certainly let them proceed. At that point, I'll send Trane $20 to transfer my extended warranty to any other dealer in the area.

If they won't honor the original deal, then they can take it out.

I really wish they would just do what the said, and be done with it so I can get on with my life.

Stand by,
Rusty

[iceman143]

Rusty,

I live in your area and will soon need to replace most of my 13 year old HVAC system. I have been considering several brands and several contractors for the job. I have used Gulf Power's free service of home evaluation and load calculations. Humidity control is one of my biggest considerations or problems. We will be purchasing a 5 ton system.

In my research and evaluations I have found huge differences in contractors. Home Depot is a great place to buy many items but is not the place I have chosen to use to find my HVAC contractor.

Due to Hurricane Ivan these are not normal times in our area as so many homes were damaged or destroyed. My old and inefficient (compared to today's standards) 9 SEER Trane is still performing despite the outside unit being submerged in two feet of saltwater for a fairly long period of time following the hurricane.

I have budgeted up to $15,000 for my replacement system although I would prefer to pay less. I don't want to try to save a few dollars on the front end only to pay more later. I have found most contractors appreciate a knowledgeable homeowner who understands the contractor is the expert.

Since you are displeased with your service to date, I would suggest you begin documenting everything in writing to create a paper trail of each of your efforts. Becoming a letter writing machine confirming understandings and dates of promised service will show a newly involved person the reasonable efforts you have undertaken. Verbal communications are subject to the individual's memory or lack thereof. Telephone messages can be lost in the shuffle. Being understanding of hurricane complications but firm about your expectations will often yield better results than initial demands. Once the paper trail has been established of the contractor's failure to provide the purchased product and service then you are in position to make demands.

While I don't intend anything negative about the contractor you have been assigned by Home Depot, they are not on my short list. I want to be able to expect that two years after the installation should a problem occur, my contractor will respond timely and be knowledgeable of the system. I don't have the impression that thoughts of your contractor's company is producing any "warm, fuzzy" feelings for you now so I doubt that will change two years down the road.

I will continue to follow this thread with interest.

[iceman143]

Rusty,

Any update?

[13brv3]

Nothing real significant at this point. No one wants to even discuss removing the system. It's almost like they refuse to read that part of my messages. When asked, they all say that decision is up to (insert someone other than the person you're talking to).

They keep wanting Trane to come set the unit up properly, but they won't talk about the $500 that ARS promised as part of the deal. That used to be up to the general manager of ARS, and now Home Depot tells me I have to talk to Trane when they get here. Seems to me that they want to get the installation issues straightened out, so they can wash their hands of this.

Trane is tentatively schedule for Friday morning, and all the installation issues are supposed to be corrected then. At that point, once they've erased the evidence of their incompetence I firmly believe it's their intention to screw me over the rebate. If so, I'll just take my complaint to the next level. Maybe they will surprise me, but it would be a BIG surprise at this point.

Cheers,
Rusty

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Did you sign a binding contract with them for the install?

Was there any mention of a guarantee where they would refund your money and remove the equipment?

Was the $500 rebate in your contract or was this verbal?

I think you may be wasting your breath about the "remove this equipment" thing...
Let the Trane reps and HD do their job. You will have a nice system when all is done.
I can't recall how many homeowners 1st response when something went wrong was: I want my money back and remove this equipment...

Keep in contact every day with HD, Trane, and ARS.
This will get resolved.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

So how did this cluster turn out?

[13brv3]

As I mentioned in my last post, Trane was tentatively scheduled for tomorrow. ARS was supposed to confirm this when the Trane rep got back in town on yesterday. So far, no word from ARS, and no reply to my email. HD called yesterday to ask if we had this scheduled yet, and I told them the same story.

Maybe I'm just too impatient. They said they'd install it in a day, and tomorrow is 5 weeks and counting.

Rusty

[kcrossley]

Rusty,

Email me. I have a question I'd like to ask you.

Thanks,
Kelly

[Edited by kcrossley on 02-10-2005 at 10:25 PM]

[41gasman]

Kcrossly.Come on now no secrets.
You know we all want to know
the whole store now.:-}

[13brv3]

Just another non-update. I emailed ARS and HD this morning, and said to get this thing fixed this week. Naturally, they say the Trane rep will be out of town all week. The new schedule is set for Monday the 21st. I've already told ARS that I'm taking the day off work to make sure I'm here, so no changes are allowed in this schedule.

Wish me luck. I'm due for some.

Rusty

[iceman143]

Rusty,

The 21st seems like a holiday for some. I hope you aren't bumped again. Keep the paper trail of confirmations and failed follow through going. It may well be worth the time spent on documentation before your ordeal is over.

[mav]

I am new to this forum and in general have little knowledge of heat pumps. This thread was very helpful because of the details given for what to look for in an installation.

My current situation is that I have a 80% single stage natural gas furnace, which was originally not properly sized, and it is approaching the end of it's life.

I have had a number of suggestions: Bryant, Carrier and Trane. The one I'm leaning towards is XL16i and natural gas 80%VS AH, because of the efficiency numbers. But at this point, I could be swayed in almost any direction.

I live in Seattle and I think the average temperature in the winter is moderate; so I think I can still benefit from a heat pump.

I would greatly appreciate anyone's suggestion on how to come to the best possible conclusion before I dump a bunch of cash on a hvac system that won't deliver.

Thanks,

Mark

[13brv3]

I haven't got a confirmation from ARS about Trane's visit Monday, but HD made the mistake of calling me. Long story short, HD called the Trane rep themselves, and confirmed a 10:00am appt for Monday. They said the Trane rep didn't know anything about any previous dates that were supposed to have been arranged, which doesn't surprise me. It's likely that ARS never requested them to be here.

Rusty

[pstu]

It appears there is potential for a whole lot of confusion and non-communication. Probably all is proceeding *now* but...
I suggest taking a couple minutes to scribble a letter stating your understanding of the appointment, and fax it to a contact at Trane and one at HD. For example,

"Dear Sir,
This is to confirm that you will visit at my house 2/21/05 to address some problems I have been having with my new installation of Trane AC equipment."

If you have any issue which is particularly grieving you, this would be a good place to say it again. By putting it in writing, they will be less likely to be stupid and at a later time if you need, you can attach a copy of a previous letter and I believe it will be seen as important.

Lots of people gripe but I do believe the ones that put their demands in plain black and white, will be more likely to see them met.

Best of luck -- P.Student

[gatorguy]

I personally tend to believe that the Trane guy didn't know anything about previous appointments. I have never known a situation (we are a very big Trane dealer) where the Trane rep dragged his heels on any situation like this, much less, ignored it all together. I have been keeping track of this thread and not believing that Trane knew about this and were not doing anything about it. I think you will be very satisfied when the Trane guy makes it there. I could be wrong, though. Time will tell.

Keep the updates coming. You are getting a rather large following now, it seems!

[iceman143]

Rusty,

I agree with perpetual student as my post two weeks ago indicates. It may also be likely the Trane rep in Mobile has not been in the loop. I would begin sending the Trane rep and Home Depot copies of your correspondences with your contractor. I have seen some contracts made through the Lowe's and Home Depot's of the world require written notice of defects within a set time period to trigger warranty claims through them. Most people never read the small print in their contract and when someone acts according to it's requirements, a response through Lowe's or HD's contract sales department is very quick to follow.

I know it may be a pain but the documentation and confirmation letters now should help save you much grief in the future. Home Depot, Trane and your contractor want to make money on the deal and have a satisfied customer. They certainly don't want to have to deal with an unhappy customer who has a paper trail of documentation and correspondences showing their failure to correct legitimate problems - it costs them much more time, effort and potential sales to someone like me considering purchasing their product.

[13brv3]

Most of my dealings with ARS have been in the form of email, and I have all the messages saved. I also copy them to the HD folks. I know that a lot of folks believe paper is better than email, but a message is a message.

I also don't believe that the Trane unit, or their rep is at fault. I will certainly speak to them about their expectations for an authorized Trane dealer though.

My local branch of ARS is the problem, and if I ever get all this mess straightened out, I'll be having my extended warranty transferred to ANY OTHER dealer in this area. I feel confident that no one can be as bad as ARS has been. It still irritates me that they got paid for such incompetence.

Rusty

[iceman143]

Rusty,

You might wish to talk to a contractor in Gulf Breeze - you'll find his name listed under Bubba..... Heating and AC (no kidding his name really is Bubba but he looks about as far away from a Bubba as you could imagine)

[13brv3]

Thanks. Since Gulf Breeze is so close, I had already planned to use Bubba for anything else I need, so it's good to have a recommendation. Now if I could just turn back time and use him instead of ARS. Eventually, I'll learn.

Rusty

[mestopin]

I would locate the Trane dealer and call them directly especially with no help from the contractor.

http://trane.com/AboutTrane/Contact/SalesOffices.asp

[13brv3]

Greetings,

As expected, Trane had no difficulty making the 16i run as designed. It's MUCH quieter now that it's properly set up to run in stage one most of the time. I can say that I'm now happy with the unit.

Unfortunately, ARS still shows no sign of improvement. They were supposed to take care of everything yesterday, so this would all finally be over. Did they, noooooooo. They showed up with no intention of fixing the rest of their mess.

As it turns out, there's a kit to quiet a rattling check valve in the unit that Trane is sending ARS, so I'm committed to at least one more visit anyway. I'll be sooooooo glad to be done with these guys.

Rusty

[gatorguy]

I'm very glad that Trane corporate came through for you. I would have been very surprised and disappointed if they had failed at that.

There is a metal ball inside the check valve that will rattle (indoors) in heat mode since is it sort of "floating" around. The "kit" is a magnet and a clip to put over top of the check valve which will hold the ball still against the copper pipe during heat mode. The force of the refrigerant flow in the opposite direction in cooling will seat the ball tightly (to close the refrigerant path through it) and it will not rattle in cooling because of this.

I'm glad this is starting to come together for you. All but ARS, that is...

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by 13brv3
As it turns out, there's a kit to quiet a rattling check valve in the unit that Trane is sending ARS, so I'm committed to at least one more visit anyway. I'll be sooooooo glad to be done with these guys.

Hey Rusty,

I'm glad Trane came through for you. I'm curious about this kit you're referring to. As you know, I recently had a 16i installed and I've noticed the same ratttling noise, but I thought it was coming from the vent diverters. Where is the check valve located and what exactly does the kit do?

Thanks,
Kelly

[13brv3]

Gatorguy just described it in the previous post. This is in the indoor unit. The Trane guy told me it was just a magnet, which I thought was pretty funny, but whatever works :-)

Still happy with the way the unit is working, if I can ever get ARS to finish their part. I swear, it's almost like they're trying intentionally to piss me off. If so, it's the only thing they've done well :-)

Rusty

[kcrossley]

Originally posted by 13brv3
Gatorguy just described it in the previous post. This is in the indoor unit. The Trane guy told me it was just a magnet, which I thought was pretty funny, but whatever works :-)

Good thing his post wasn't a snake. I need to pay attention better. How do I know if I have the magnet or not? Where does it install?

Thanks,
Kelly

[gatorguy]

It's a little hard to describe it if you don't know what you are looking for.

If you take off the top panel of the air handler, the check valve is down on the left side of the A coil. If you follow the small copper tube from outside of the air handler through the black plastic in the door and keep following it, the tube will end up going to a TXV. (Here is a picture which is the first hit from a google 'TXV' search: http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/hvac/h/h.htm ). Anyway, just before you reach the TXV, there should be a copper "T". This will branch off and go to the check valve. This is the rattling source (only in heat mode). If you look at the copper, it is usually a tad larger than the 3/8" copper and you will see a crimp in it.

DISCLAIMER: You should be a professional technician to try this next paragraph.
If one were to have the unit running in heat mode with the panel off (blower will be running and will eat fingers, hair, neck ties, etc!) and could hear the rattling noise, one could use any half-way strong magnet (I use a screw pick up magnet on a telescoping rod) and run it up and down the check valve. When the magnet is over the metal ball described in the previous post, the rattling will stop. Remove the magnet, the rattling starts again.

The Trane magnet "kit" is simply a magnet that comes with a clip that is the right size to hold the magnet against the copper tubing.

Maybe this helps a little.

DON'T CUT OFF YOUR FINGERS.

[13brv3]

I called the Trane Consumer Relations dept today, since I haven't heard anything from anybody in a week. They were very friendly, and seemed to actually care. Unfortunately, I was able to confirm that I didn't get a real Trane extended warranty, but rather an ARS protection package of some type. Imagine how thrilled I am about that.

I followed up to Trane with a long email listing all the details. Amazingly, as if by coincidence <g>, I got an email from ARS saying they had the rattle kit from Trane, and wanted to schedule a time to install it. I replied that Wed would be fine, but only if they plan to fix all their other installation mistakes on the same trip. There hasn't been time for a reply yet, so we'll see.

I feel an email to corp ARS coming on as well.

Cheers,
Rusty

[dash]

13brv3,

You can get a refund on any "extended warranty" in Florida.
It's required in the law,and since it couldn't have taken effect yet,90% is the minimum refund,plus you can still buy Tranes Warranty.

In fact ARS is required to be licensed by the Florida Dept. of Insurance,to sell warrantys.Now they are exempt from some of the paperwork,as they are stock traded,and thus file SEC 10K report.


If they say it was "included" in the price,that's not legal ,to the best of my knowledge,though it goes on,as most don't complain to the Dept..

Since you "love' them(ARS),I'd start getting a copy,of what they "sold" you,and then contact the Dept., for info. on a refund,then go back to them(ARS).

The law,doesn't have any "fulltime" enforcement people,but a letter from the Dept. ,should get thier attention.

[13brv3]

Good info Dash, thanks. The ARS form says that you can cancel for any reason within 90 days, and receive the cost of the policy, minus discounts. Unfortunately, there's no price listed on the policy, so I expect they will say the entire price was discounted. Still an excellent question for the dept of insurance. They did confirm that they will fix everything on Wed morning.

If that actually happens, then I'll really start hammering them about this rebate they promised, and the warranty deal. I would even be happy if they cancelled the warranty, and gave me $500 for doing so. Since I would never use them again, the warranty is worth nothing to me. At some point, I'll email ARS, HD, and Trane a link to this post.

Thanks,
Rusty

[dash]

Florida law requires a price to be included on the extended warranties,for that very reason.You can't even say it's "free" with a purchase in advertising.

Mfrs. thought they could ignore this,but most if not all ,now comply.

[13brv3]

There is no breakdown of the price. The main proposal (written a week after the unit had been installed) has a check on the box that says "extended warranty", and on the line next to it is written "10 years".

There is another piece of paper that is the ARS home service plan, which has the serial numbers of the unit, but lists no effective dates. Those lines are blank. There is also no price. In the form letter writing that tells all the reasons you should feel proud to be a customer, it says that it includes free parts and labor for 12 months.

Bottom line is that I have no idea what they sold me, included in the overall price they quoted. If they manage to get the installation issues straightened out Wednesday, then perhaps I'll head over to their office to let them explain all this. That should be interesting.

Thanks again for the valuable info.

Rusty

[gatorguy]

Did you verify with Trane what factory warranty you DID have? I'm thinking the variable speed air handlers have more than one year. The 16i may also. I know my company almost always sells the 10 year parts and labor warranty with the equipment, so I may be wrong about this. Wouldn't hurt to verify if you aren't 100% sure already.


The Trane Extended Warranty can be purchased through a Trane dealer. The dealer sets the final price. Don't be totally surprised if the new dealer wants to inspect the unit (for a fee) before submitting it to Trane.

The nice thing about Trane's warranty is that it covers parts AND labor. You pay today's prices to be protected against 2015's labor costs. You can also transfer the warranty if you sell the house ($25 fee). It's not a bad selling point of the house when the A/C is 7-8 years old but it has 2-3 years of a factory parts and labor warranty left on it.

Bottom line: If you do get cash back from ARS, you might want to reinvest it in the Trane warranty with another company if you don't have the warranty already.

My $.02



[Edited by gatorguy on 02-28-2005 at 06:53 PM]

[13brv3]

Thanks for the info. ARS called again to confirm Wednesday's schedule (really dotting the i's and crossing the t's now). I asked them about the warranty, and they said they'd bring all the paperwork and explain it all when they come.

The 16i comes with a 10 year parts warranty, which extends to the AH if it's installed at the same time. Not sure what the standard laber is, but the extended labor I was looking at was for 10 years to match the parts warranty. I called Trane earlier, and they said they had no record of a warranty for my serial number. Now that I think about it, wouldn't they have to have a record that shows at least the parts warranty? Gotta call again and ask in the morning. Maybe the paperwork just hasn't gone through yet.

BTW, mentioning prices on the forum is one of the big no-no's. You might want to edit your post and nuke them. As helpful as you've been, I wouldn't want to see you get in any trouble for that.

Cheers,
Rusty

[gatorguy]

Whoops.

Didn't know that...

[13brv3]

ARS came out yesterday as planned, and did everything they came to do. The inside unit is now rattle free, and they took care of all the other installation problems.

I was told that the first year of labor was covered by ARS, but a real Trane extended warranty would kick in for year 2-10. I'll be keeping in touch with Trane to make sure they eventually get that paperwork, and verify the extended warranty.

The only remaining item is the $500 rebate, which I'm told they're working on. If I get an answer on this, I'll make a final update.

Until then, I'd sincerely like to thank everyone who helped me with this situation. I could never have been as well informed without your help.

Cheers,
Rusty

[vschlitz]

I have an xl19i 5 ton brand new house about 3000 square foot with EWC zone controler. Electric bills were running pretty consistent all through summer air conditioning around $75/month. Then came December's heat, the electric bill soared to $240, Jan $480, Feb $360. The house next to us approximatly the same square footage but has electric base board heat with significantly lower electric bill. Both are well insulated homes. I am only heating the first level, the other is two. So you can see my concern about the electric bills.

After looking through here I called the installer and voiced my concern. They came out and looked saying looks good. I have the Trane V/S air handler, and the Trane 500c stats. So I looked in the setup option #3 was set to 1 I changed it to 2, for 3/heat and 2/cool. I also had noticed prior to this change I only ever noticed two fan speeds. From what I've read here there is to be three speed.

Is there any thing else I should be looking for?

[mark beiser]

vschlitz,

Since your system is zoned with an EWC controller, changing those settings on the thermostat will probably do nothing since the thermostat doesn't control the equipment directly.
There may not even be control wiring tied to the thermostat to do 2 cool/3 heat since the thermostats for each zone only need to be 1 cool/1 heat with the EWC system.

Is your system a heat pump, or is it elecric heat?

What is the model number of your zone controler?


Really, you should start a new thread describing your problem and giving details, of your system.

[mav]

I'm looking to purchase Trane XV80 with a XL16i heat pump. Two different Trane dealers, working from the same Heat Lose Report, recommended two different furnace models and coil. One stated: TUD100R9V5 (52,000/79,000BTU) with coil TXC060C5HPC and use the existing lineset which was the larger size for R22...the other said TUD120R9V5 (62,400/97,000BTU) with coil TXH063P3HPA and replace the lineset for R-410A.

My BTU Heating is 88134 and CFM Heating is 1999.

I am a bit concerned that the lineset designed for R22 used on the new system with R-410A would result in inefficiency or possibly affect the longevity of the system.

Does anyone have a clue to which one is the correct one and whether or not the use of R22 lineset on R-410A cause problems?

Best regards,

[aircooled53]

Originally posted by 13brv3
Greetings,

I just had a 4 ton 16i, and variable speed air handler installed, but unfortunately, the people who installed it are not inspiring me with confidence that it's set up properly. For example, they installed the air handler with the default switch settings, which don't allow the enhanced mode to work. They only changed this when I called them back because my variable speed airhandler wasn't doing anything but turning on full blast. They would have left it that way forever if I hadn't caught it, so I have to wonder what else they did wrong.

I've tried to confirm the way they wired it up, but it doesn't seem to conform to any of the options in the installation book. I could post the wiring at the air handler if needed, but I haven't checked the other end of the wiring at the thermostat, or outside unit.

My first, most basic question is about the 16i's two stage compressor. I was under the impression that it can run at two different speeds, or capacities, almost like a true dual compressor unit. Is the switching for this two stage feature done internally to the 16i, or does it have to be treated by the thermostat as a dual compressor unit? There's a setting on the XT500C thermostat that has the option of "one cooling cyle, and 2 heating cycles", or "two cooling cycles, and 3 heating cycles". Mine is set to the first choice, but I wonder if the two stage compresser means it should be set to the second.

The next question is whether the air handler fan should run slower when the 16i is in it's lower "stage" mode? At the moment, mine seems to do just what the book says for enhanced mode, where it ramps up to 50%, then 80%, then 100%. This moves a lot more air than our previous unit did, and can get pretty noisy. My hope was that this variable speed air handler was going to be very quiet most of the time, but that hasn't been the case so far.

Any answers to the staging question would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Rusty

[gatorguy]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone were to read through SIX pages of posts before they give advice on the first post of the thread?!

[41gasman]

gatorguy.
Yes it would.But I am more humored by vschlitz and mav who tag so pretty good questions and problems they have on the back of a thread that has been going on for weeks!! I hopr they don't get tp peved when they don't get the responses they deserve.
41GASMAN

[vschlitz]

Yes it would. I followed your advice and started a new thread, and got the same old thing. No help, call Trane, and a smart remark.

Oh well, I asked for it..

Problem is fixed though, asked a neighbor..

[jowi51]

Had a Trane 16i installed last spring in Charlotte, NC area. Chose the 16i over the 14 at the advice of local Trane dealer that I would save $$. Boy, what a mistake! Cooling worked great HOWEVER, I noticed my Kw useage was higher, month after month, than in 2004 with my old Trane XL1400 which was 17 years old.
Now that winter has arrived, the problems have really surfaced. Not only does the Kw useage continue to be much higher than last year despite our mild winter, the unit blows COLD air on occasion.
A terse email to Trane Corp. produced some results in that the local dealer was contacted to investigate. Well, it turns out, like some in this thread have noted, that my unit is wired wrong and may have other issues. The wiring was corrected?? but, it still blows cold air on occasion to the tune of 64 degrees when it was about 25 degrees outside. In my opinion, this should never happen with a new heat pump. Since it's continued to be mild and one attempt to correct has been made, the local Trane rep now seems disinterested since he never even read my email after 2 weeks. I guess another email to Trane Corp is in order.
I'd be curious to know how many others out there have these problems and if a class-action lawsuit is not in order here?. I'd love to see some other posts on this unit and its problems.

[gatorguy]

I haven't had any design problems to speak of. Usually the problem lies in the installers/service techs not knowing about the new technology and how to set the equipment up correctly. I don't think you're going to find any class action lawsuits against the 16i. Get somebody who knows what they are doing over there.

[jowi51]

well, that's part of the problem, when a certified Trane dealer's personnel don't know what they're doing who do you turn to? I've been told by these folks and the local rep that almost every 16i installed in my area, by several dealers, is installed incorrectly. This has got to be a pretty widespread problem, nationally.
I spent a lot of money on this system that doesn't work right and costs more money to run than my old one. There should be some recourse?
If not fixed I'm going to look at having it replaced with a Carrier. I've heard Carrier's new systems are superior to Trane. Any comment on this? (Now you wonder, why did I buy Trane? Because, as I mentioned, I had a 17 year old 1400XL that worked fine. At the time I was shopping, no one could give me a reason to switch)
Thanks for the feedback..

[Swampfox]

Surely there is someone in Charlotte that knows how to set up a 16i, either way, dont blame Trane for the installers mistakes, Trane and Carrier are both quality equipment, and both perform poorly when not installed and set up properly, my advice, stop emailing Trane, get on the phone with the installing contractor and keep after them until it is right, or bite the bullet and get someone in there who knows what they are doing

[jacob perkins]

Originally posted by jowi51
I've heard XXXXXX's new systems are superior to OOOOOO's. )
Thanks for the feedback..

well after reading 7 pages , i now realise this is a year old thread.

maybe you could start your own new thread so that doesnt happen to anyone else. you even might get better answers





go goodman.... and forget all the fancy crap.