Liebert control...

[ecrabb]

Hey, guys -

I'm not in the HVAC trade, but I have an HVAC question if you don't mind...

We have a Liebert Mini-Mate 2 cooling unit in the ceiling of our small data room, and the wall-mount digital control (thermostat, humidistat, control panel) started beeping randomly. No actual errors - it's just randomly beeping and annoying the crap out of the people in the nearby offices.

The HVAC installer says our cost on the part is apparently $800... Eight hundred bucks... For a tiny wall-mount control about the size of a couple of packs of smokes.

My question is, does anybody know any sources for a used/surplus control? I am NOT trying to cut out our installer... I have no issue with his markup or the price of his services at all! On the contrary, I really like working with him. What I do have a problem with is the price of the part from the mfr - especially if it's not reliable for more than a few years.

Honestly, it looks like something that should be $300-400, even accounting for the specialized/low-volume/commercial/technical nature of the product.

Thanks for any insight you might have. Cheers!

[flange]

ever own a boat? parts for boats cost two times that of a car for very similiar parts. Why, cause your car doesnt float away if you break down on a street, but in the ocean, it will float right up until a big wave hits, then say goodbye.

Ever own a plane? yup, even worse, if a part fails on a plane, you may fall out of the sky.

Ever own a Liebert? wel,,,its mission critical server room air conditioning. Liebert IS VERY PROUD of their equipment. Even in slow times they do quite well. Why? you may ask, well they break down and sell really expensive parts.

Do you think for a second that we. as contractors, like buying liebert parts? Nope, because then we get guys like you who think we are ripping them off. We are not. By the way, the older thee unit, the more costly the parts as they become "legacy units", meaning parts are no longer stock items. As far as spare parts, I am sure someone has one around.

[ecrabb]

Thanks for the reply, flange.

I do find it interesting that you chose to close with the "guys like you who think we are ripping them off" comment when indeed I went well out of my way to point out that I had no issue at all with our contractor or his markup, but rather with the price of the part itself. To reiterate, I have no issue whatsoever with my HVAC contractor or the price of his expertise or services, nor do I think he's trying to rip us off.

Of course, I also find it pathetic that the $800 "mission critical" commercial control won't last four years without having a failure... To go back to your airplane example, it's usually more expensive because it's actually better-engineered, isn't it? Don't those parts usually last longer than their consumer-grade mass-market brethren?

Just sayin'...

[Control Man]

Just do what 99% of the rest of the world does , look on EBAY , lots of LIEBERT parts listed on there both new and used , might find what your looking for.

[ecrabb]

Yeah, good idea... I tried that before I decided to bug you guys by posting here. I didn't find the part I needed, but I was really surprised at both the sheer amount of Liebert equipment, and the amount of huge industrial Liebert pieces on fleabay... Giant equipment I can only assume that gets installed on rooftops by crane... on fleabay. I don't know, but huge commercial/industrial equipment that ships on a semi and gets installed by crane - on ebay - strikes me as funny.

Thanks!

[coolperfect]

So that's why my Emerson stock is up over 100%

[ecrabb]

Ahh, so it's like an Apple, Inc. thing... I get it, now. :grin2:

[coolperfect]

I got that one too,plus put the A/C in a store of theirs

[flange]

i would find out why its beeping first, but thats just me..sometimes they beep and are just fine.

[Phisher]

Do you have an installer checking your unit or an experienced service co.?

[Randy S.]

Go find your closest Liebert distributor and see if they will sell you the stat.

You should be able to buy the stat for considerably less that the price quoted, but you are stuck using the Liebert stat. The random beeping is a typical failure, seen it several times.

[basshound71]

Just remember if yours only lasted 4 years, if it's really bad, the one you buy probably won't be new. How long you think it's going to last. By the way typically they last longer than that.

[ecrabb]

Flange, yes the control is working - other than that the random beeping is annoying the crap out of people in adjacent offices. We disabled the beeper with a dip switch, but of course now we have no audible warning if something is actually wrong.

Phisher, we have the technician who originally installed the system when our space was built out. He recommended replacing the control and gave me the price. I also have some electronics troubleshooting experience, and agree with his assessment. Unless somebody wants to do component-level troubleshooting and surface-mount component repair, replacing the control is the only option.

Randy, thanks for the feedback - good to know it's a common failure mode.

Basshound - agreed. I considered that. It would have to be cheap to make sense to buy a used or surplus unit.

Thanks for the assistance, guys. I'll make a couple of calls and see what I can find out.

Thanks again!!!

[hvac-tech-lane]

You could leave the beeper disabled and monitor the alarm contacts, it may be alarming and clearing before you see what is causing the alarm.

[Phisher]

If you have an energy managment system on site you could drop a temp/hum sensor in the space and setup a space temp/hum alarm at the work station.

[macmec]

Anyone out there have any experience controlling multiple pieces of 20 - 15 ton Liebert equipment using a common sensor serving the same environmental zone?
This systems has a very shallow raised floor supply with common plenum.......interior loads are changing as network/communication equipment is upgraded. There are concerns about actually supply air control ........and then of course the supply air temp and how it responds to the actual heat loads.

I have an interest or questions about possibility of controlling Liebert equipment in sets or pairs versus having each piece of equipment running independently without respect to communication between each other. Presently we have noted the individual systems operating in somewhat of a conflicting manner, some are not on at all and others are at 25% load which doesn't seem to be very effective nor efficient.

Suspect that this constant operation with compressors unloaded cause oil return problems.

Any thoughts on this??? Thank you for your consideration.

[Lambo]

One thing that always seems to get overlooked is the location of the floor vents. These data centers are ever changing with new racks going in, coming out, and getting moved. Some of the older racks would draw air in from around them. Many newer racks like to be directly overtop the vents. If nobody ever changes the vent locations, then it's easy to fall into a short cycling scenario. It can also lead to cold and hot spots.
Liebert does make a controller that will help multiple units run together. We used one to keep the units on one site from fighting each other. It kept them from trying to humidify and dehumidify while sitting next to each other. I would look into that solution as well as a review of your rack vs vent locations.

[anytech]

Lambo is correct. If you upgrade your equipment to Liebert iCOM controls, you can network them together in groups. Your local rep would be able to help you with options and pricing.