ice machine question again.....

[smokin68]

Same old Manitowic QD 212 A......

I have a flooding evap problem, as i only get to 45 psig suction pressure throughout the freeze cycle. Machine now has a new compressor,fan cycle switch and txv. I pinched off the hot gas line for the harvest cycle to see if that was leaking but made no difference. Machine works better in low ambient. Everything was cleaned. I insulated the txv bulb with suction line insulation instead of cork tape, no difference. This machine is driving me crazy...it goes off of long freeze cycle time safety #1. I've read the manual provided(thanks) and still don't get it. All advice welcome. TIA.

[Hedgroz]

Is there a strainer in the water inlet?

[smokin68]

Is there a strainer in the water inlet?

Yes. Took apart and cleaned that. Good water flow...

[IceDoctorII]

Did you use all OEM parts? (Compressor, TXV, Fan Cycle and LL drier)

[itsiceman]

Is it making any ice?
Does it run a full 60 min. to make ice when you are there?
I always check the water level being a problem at the siphon. You could let it run with out the cap to see if the siphon level is the problem. Clogged drain will do the same thing. Found a dime under the tube once causing a intermittent #1

[smokin68]

Did you use all OEM parts? (Compressor, TXV, Fan Cycle and LL drier)

Compressor was a Techcumseh, so purchased another with the numbers off original, just not from mani, txv is OEM, Fan cycle is OEM, Drier isn't, but is same size as OEM.

[smokin68]

Is it making any ice?
Does it run a full 60 min. to make ice when you are there?
I always check the water level being a problem at the siphon. You could let it run with out the cap to see if the siphon level is the problem. Clogged drain will do the same thing. Found a dime under the tube once causing a intermittent #1

Yes it was running the full 60 min. Will have to look better at the siphoning....figured good water flow over the evap should produce ice quicker no matter what the siphon action is. thanks.

[itsamine]

Never mind brain fart.

[icemeister]

Same old Manitowic QD 212 A......

I have a flooding evap problem, as i only get to 45 psig suction pressure throughout the freeze cycle. Machine now has a new compressor,fan cycle switch and txv. I pinched off the hot gas line for the harvest cycle to see if that was leaking but made no difference. Machine works better in low ambient. Everything was cleaned. I insulated the txv bulb with suction line insulation instead of cork tape, no difference. This machine is driving me crazy...it goes off of long freeze cycle time safety #1. I've read the manual provided(thanks) and still don't get it. All advice welcome. TIA.

In spite of the fact you have replaced the expansion valve, it appears the new one isn't controlling at all if you're still flooding. I suggest replacing the valve again.

[itsamine]

What is the head psi? Could be slightly over charged.

[smokin68]

What is the head psi? Could be slightly over charged.

It was in the 285 psig range, I'll re-check it.....but how would an overcharge prevent the txv from closing more? This txv has only a sensing bulb....no pressure line.

[smokin68]

In spite of the fact you have replaced the expansion valve, it appears the new one isn't controlling at all if you're still flooding. I suggest replacing the valve again.

Damn...was hoping not to hear that....

[pecmsg]

How’s the ice look as its forming? Even thickness top to bottom, left to right?

[itsamine]

http://www.manitowocice.com/?xhtml=xhtml/mii/us/en/general/productdownloads_service.html&xsl=productdownloads.xsl

[pdrake65]

What are the inlet and outlet temps of the evap?

[smokin68]

What are the inlet and outlet temps of the evap?

Inlet temp 7-11; outlet temp 10-14, both are fluctuating

[jackintheboxtec]

In spite of the fact you have replaced the expansion valve, it appears the new one isn't controlling at all if you're still flooding. I suggest replacing the valve again.

:ditto:
Maybe new TXV is bad (Happens). Maybe overheated when installing? Wrap valve with wet towel when brazing (I'm just sayin).

[itsiceman]

Many guys overfeed the solder and it drips in and holds the valve internals open but
with all those number this thing should be makin ice :confused:

[pdrake65]

Inlet temp 7-11; outlet temp 10-14, both are fluctuating

Some crazy numbers going on! Assuming that the charge was weighed in with no non-condensables in the system , I would have to agree on the txv being the issue. I will look for the other thread you have on this as to why you had to change the compressor. I am also assuming that there is no leakage on the inlet or dump valve on the water side of this machine.
Here is the analysis chart for it:

[Joe Harper]

On those danfoss valves I always soft solder them in.

[pdrake65]

On those danfoss valves I always soft solder them in.

:ditto: Pretty much on anything with such small tubing I have begun doing this as well so I don't have to worry about brazing issues.

[icemeister]

This is the instruction sheet that comes with Manitowoc's Danfoss valve:

http://www.manitowocice.com/docs/uploaded/mii/instructions/8005583.pdf

They make it clear that these valves require a different brazing technique than what we're used to. Since the connections are copper clad stainless steel they can't tolerate excessive much heat so the majority of your heat must go to the tubing and not the valve.

I have only done about a dozen of these (sweating bullets every time), but so far so good.

Their directions lack info on how much heat is actually needed. I use a fairly small tip like a Uniweld #0 set for a soft flame which is hot enough to get the tubing cherry red within 15 seconds or so. Move the heat closer to the valve connection slowly until very edge of the slightly flared end of the connection starts to glow just a bit. Move the heat (sparingly) to the connection and lightly touch it with your 15% solder on one side then the other.

If the brazed joint looks like it doesn't have enough solder in it, it's good. :)

If you heated the connection until it's red, you've gone too far with your heat and likely burned off the copper cladding. :(

If you've filled the joint so it has a beautifully formed shoulder cap, you've likely plugged the connection with solder. :eek:

[itsamine]

I use the wire crap. It works good on the stainless to copper. Knock on wood haven't had any problems

[smokin68]

Update...machine is making ice. I read the brazing instructions before I brazed the valve in...I had heat sink putty and cool gel all over it. I'm still watching it 'cause i don't trust it.

[ckartson]

I was hoping to see his answer to this question. I have seen tubing separated from the evap. Little or no ice production. Also uneven.

[itsiceman]

Update...machine is making ice. I read the brazing instructions before I brazed the valve in...I had heat sink putty and cool gel all over it. I'm still watching it 'cause i don't trust it.Did you see it make ice in the correct time ?

[smokin68]

Did you see it make ice in the correct time ?

Its still slow(IMO) but we now have lower ambients....I haven't re-timed it, but I will. The safety hasn't gone off so its faster than it was.

[smokin68]

I was hoping to see his answer to this question. I have seen tubing separated from the evap. Little or no ice production. Also uneven.

The ice has been pretty even....and I called Mani about the tubing seperation when I first started working on this one. They said beings its a 2001, the problem was corrected and the tubing isnt seperated.

[itsamine]

By no means I saying this is what happening but I has seen moisture reak havoc on systems. I have seen where it will form a ball of ice in the txv and screw evrything up. Then after awhile it melts and everything is fine for a period of time. Then it happens all over again. Beat myself up over that.:whistle:

[smokin68]

By no means I saying this is what happening but I has seen moisture reak havoc on systems. I have seen where it will form a ball of ice in the txv and screw evrything up. Then after awhile it melts and everything is fine for a period of time. Then it happens all over again. Beat myself up over that.:whistle:

O.K.....I've heard of this also, just never experienced it. You put a lighter on the line in front of the txv and Whoosh...but mine is flooded not starved. I evacuated to 150 microns and let the pump run an extra hour, and a new drier. I don't think there's moisture, but anythings possible at this point.

[dirtyboy103us]

had a old hoshi do this after they moved the machine
plumber pipe to hot water line and it took awhile to find
did you check water temp on inlet

[Gleng]

Make sure water inlet valve is not leaking.