can you really be that arrogant/demanding?

[pacnw]

I work for a company and today is my day on call, this is emergency after hours service and it is said that way on the machine and by the answering service.

Lady calls and says "... can you come out and check my furnace? last week another company said it has a bad heat chamber thingy and the home warranty company wants a second opinion."

I said " no problem, our weekend rate is $$ and it is travel plus time on site and since you are a new customer it will be payment upon completion. If the heat exchanger is bad, there is nothing I can do for you until at least Monday."

Lady " well you have to call the warranty company while here and tell them or they won't authorize repairs and I need you to guarantee me that you will install a new furnace TODAY."

I repeated that there is no way to install a new unit today, we have an install dept and I do not know their schedule, but Tuesday would probably be doable. I also said that any time on site is chargeable, so if I am on hold with the warranty company you/she is responsible for the charges.

Lady " well I guess that you don't want the job, I don't want to pay you if there is no way to install a unit today and I guess you don't care that my toddlers are cold."

If the other company shut it down last week, why are you waiting until Saturday to do something?

Do you not understand the concept of emergency service?

Do you not realize it is a weekend and the parts houses are closed?

So many other things I wanted to say to her, but kept it clean and professional.

Wished her good luck in her quest to find someone COMPETENT to install a unit today.

It is mid to upper 40's, go to Wal-Mart, Target or someplace, buy a couple space heaters and "camp" out in the same room until Monday and then any number of companies will be at your becon call.

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes it is just amazing what people do/think!!

[SBKold]

Its 95° here......send her down!

[genduct]

and the home warranty company wants a second opinion."
Could you have called the warranty Company from your location? It is clear that the first company may have been the "chosen one" so your job was just to provide a "second opinion"
Once you were in contact with the people who were going to pay the bill, perhaps you could have gotten on the bid list. Your contact with the warranty company would have also give you the model size of the furnace.
A quick call to your salesman, he does have a cell, might have given you some pricing guidance, so when you were at the job giving the second opinion you might have closed the deal and had her back in operation on Monday.
You could have gotten the old unit out and preped for the install guys for a head start. Still remember how to "push and pull"?

Really the only thing she understood about this is that she and her children were cold for a couple of days when some "insurance" company was getting her to do their work and the idea of not understanding what they wanted might mean she was not going to be reimbursed, and she is not a business person just a civilian who figures that this straight forward situation is already getting too complicated.

I can see why your first reaction would be she is arrogant/demanding
But upon reflection, do you still think that. Think you could have handled it differently, and maybe made a sale?

Just wondering if you might do it differently next time?

[genduct]

PS, do you have combustion test equipment, maybe it wasn't a bad heat exchanger and she just need an honest tech.

[REP]

Don't feel too bad,you did all you could do.Unfortunately there are people like that all over the place that think the world revolves around them.
It reminds me of when I was a dispatcher for a large heating,a/c co..It was a particuliarly bad day with temps below zero.I was getting no heat calls all over the place and then I got THE call.
It was from a woman located in the upper priced area of our city.She said her humidifier was leaking and demanded that I send someone right away as she was having a "tea" that morning and the rug was getting wet.I tried to tell her how to shut off the water but she told me in some other words that that was beneath her.
I ended up giving her 5 phone numbers.When she asked what the numbers were for ,I told her that those numbers belonged to people in her area that had no heat and if she could convince any one of them that her problem was more important than theirs I would then send someone to her instead of that persons house.The next sound I heard weas "click".LOL

[pacnw]

PS, do you have combustion test equipment, maybe it wasn't a bad heat exchanger and she just need an honest tech.

yes, I do.

another of our interactions was the fact that the "other" company is know to do this as a sales ploy. We have gone back on several occasions to dispute their claims and they have backed of each time.

[bmathews]

Blah, blah, blah. Call your boss, tell him what happened and move on. It's a loser that will be a pain in your arse. I want to know where you live that you need a furnace? Or is this an old post?

[pacnw]

Could you have called the warranty Company from your location? It is clear that the first company may have been the "chosen one" so your job was just to provide a "second opinion"
Once you were in contact with the people who were going to pay the bill, perhaps you could have gotten on the bid list. Your contact with the warranty company would have also give you the model size of the furnace.
A quick call to your salesman, he does have a cell, might have given you some pricing guidance, so when you were at the job giving the second opinion you might have closed the deal and had her back in operation on Monday.
service is on call after hours not the salespeople, installers or schedulers.

You could have gotten the old unit out and preped for the install guys for a head start. Still remember how to "push and pull"?
still remember, but that is not what we are supposed to do!!!

Really the only thing she understood about this is that she and her children were cold for a couple of days when some "insurance" company was getting her to do their work and the idea of not understanding what they wanted might mean she was not going to be reimbursed,she knew she would be reimbursed, she said she would be. and she is not a business person just a civilian who figures that this straight forward situation is already getting too complicated.

I can see why your first reaction would be she is arrogant/demanding
But upon reflection, do you still think that. Think you could have handled it differently, and maybe made a sale?
NO

Just wondering if you might do it differently next time?

you get a sense of customers over the phone or in person, usually. this one was as described, arrogant/ignorant.

there is one company that is regular rate on Saturday, but even they do NOT install on the weekend unless it is set up in advance.

come dead of winter we have an additional install crew available for emergencies. if it had been this time a guarantee of install on Monday would be possible.

you may be correct in that the insurance company is to blame, but if they are dragging their feet, how am I going to make it happen faster?

[genduct]

Sounds like you could have helped this lady and her children get back to warm.
You only needed to call the Warranty Company so there wouldn't be a dispute.

You didn't respond the the first post, still interested in what you will do in the future.

Still think this lady didn't deserve your attention?

[pacnw]

Blah, blah, blah. Call your boss, tell him what happened and move on. It's a loser that will be a pain in your arse. I want to know where you live that you need a furnace? Or is this an old post?

not an old post, happened today 9/11/10.

as I said, mid to upper 40's so "need" is an opinion.

this was more for the average homeowner not the pros, or I would have posted it in the PRO section, to respond to although that is fine.

[beenthere]

PS, do you have combustion test equipment, maybe it wasn't a bad heat exchanger and she just need an honest tech.

Do you realize that many home warranty company doesn't pay a service company its regular rates during normal hours. So they aren't going to pay a companies time and a half rates on a weekend.

Next, they don't pay travel time.

And there is no way they would have paid for a furnace install on a Saturday.

Next, Most, if not all home warranty companies, provide the furnace. So he/his company would have sold a furnace. They would get to install a furnace sent to them by the home warranty company.

Does ant of that change your mind.

[big sky hvac]

After reading all the posts, I'm with you pacnw. If it was an issue a week ago, it should have been addressed during the week, not on the weekend. Some people think that we because we have after hours/emergency service that we should work at the same rate as during the week. Our company policy is that we collect on every residential service call unless the customer has filled out a credit app. and has established an account with us. My approach with customers on after hours calls is the exact same as what you did. Let them know how much and that you have to collect when you're finished. Anytime there is a home warranty company involved, I collect the full amount from the customer for repairs that were made and let the customer deal with getting their money back from the home warranty company. There was only so much you could do, and you were honest with her that you wouldn't be able to do anything until Monday anyway. I'm guessing it was in the 40's at night, not during the day? I personally don't see how you could have done it any differently.

[genduct]

Buddy, I don't know you and you don't know me, I think you are a younger guy, maybe 30's I would like to share with you that as you get older, some of us begin to get a different sense of the customers. We don't listen to their shrill, emotional voice, remember she and her kids are cold. We find out what the problem is, and then try to fix it.
still remember, but that is not what we are supposed to do!!!
IS not the policy that fits fixing the problem.

If you know this other company even a better reason to stick it to them!

I think you missed an opportunity by letting your pride get in your way.
You didn't like her talking to you like that so you founds a reason not to help her and so she and the kids deserve to be cold another coupla of nights. YEH, THAT WILL LEARN THEM GOOD
SHE SHOULD HAVE CALLED US FIRST, ON A REGULAR WORK DAY.
BESIDES I DON'T WANT TO GO OUT TONIGHT.

Just don't find myself agreeing with you. If you are going to make it in this business, you're going to need to filter out the emotion Maybe in a coupla years you'll be able to at least understand my point of view. But you probably think I also am also arrogant/demanding
Well you'ld be partly correct, I am demanding. I want people to step up and do what they are there to do.

[bigtime]

Could you have called the warranty Company from your location? It is clear that the first company may have been the "chosen one" so your job was just to provide a "second opinion"
Once you were in contact with the people who were going to pay the bill, perhaps you could have gotten on the bid list. Your contact with the warranty company would have also give you the model size of the furnace.
A quick call to your salesman, he does have a cell, might have given you some pricing guidance, so when you were at the job giving the second opinion you might have closed the deal and had her back in operation on Monday.
You could have gotten the old unit out and preped for the install guys for a head start. Still remember how to "push and pull"?

Really the only thing she understood about this is that she and her children were cold for a couple of days when some "insurance" company was getting her to do their work and the idea of not understanding what they wanted might mean she was not going to be reimbursed, and she is not a business person just a civilian who figures that this straight forward situation is already getting too complicated.

I can see why your first reaction would be she is arrogant/demanding
But upon reflection, do you still think that. Think you could have handled it differently, and maybe made a sale?

Just wondering if you might do it differently next time?

Are you smoking crack? Its the second Saturday in September, this aint no emercency. The guy handled it correctly.

[genduct]

Beenthere, did you noticed I suggested he call the Warranty person from his location BEFORE he went out there. I get it, and the women probably figured she was going to wind up holding the bag.
I think he either isn't mature enough to know what to do OR just found a reason NOt to go out on this call. Guess which way I am leaning on this.
Think his conscience is bothering him and that's why he needed to share this story?

[heating_seattle]

Thats where the big sweat shops do well, they would have a bunch of furnaces in their warehouse and they would have been able to get a furnace out there and make a several thousand dollar sale, and plus they could have named their price.

[beenthere]

Thats where the big sweat shops do well, they would have a bunch of furnaces in their warehouse and they would have been able to get a furnace out there and make a several thousand dollar sale, and plus they could have named their price.


No they couldn't. Home warranty companies don't work that way.

[genduct]

40 degrees, I have no idea where this guy is.
Couple of weeks ago after a week in Maine, we left Sunday AM in 50 degrees to get back to the city at 92. Right now, low temps in Philly.
Yeh we know the people weren't going to freeze to death, but what the hell is on call for?
I think he whimped out because he didn't feel like going out. Strap on a pair and do the job! If he thought the money was going to be a problem, he could have shown some business sense and called the Warranty Company. That's if he was interested in the business.
No, I'm not on CRACK You know there is a reason why they call that stuff DOPE

[jpsmith1cm]

[Or maybe this woman was just a nasty person who believes that pacnw and men like him exist solely to please them.


I deal with mentalities like this on a nearly daily basis.


Give a good example that happened to me earlier this week.

Scheduled a job in a customer's building. Scheduled it overnight so as to not affect their business at all.

Day of the job comes and my van breaks down. Won't start. So, I immediately call the guy and tell him what is happening. His reaction??

"Get another van and get down here."

"Bring your own truck and do it."

The second is what I actually wound up doing the next night simply because there were additional problems with my van and I didn't want to deal with the a-hole again.

I would also like to make it clear that the repairs that we were scheduled to make were NOT critical repairs. Nothing in his building was severely suffering when we started work.

[beenthere]

Beenthere, did you noticed I suggested he call the Warranty person from his location BEFORE he went out there. I get it, and the women probably figured she was going to wind up holding the bag.
I think he either isn't mature enough to know what to do OR just found a reason NOt to go out on this call. Guess which way I am leaning on this.
Think his conscience is bothering him and that's why he needed to share this story?

I've dealt with HW's. Calling them from your office/cell phone gets you a nice person to talk to.

Then you go out, and collect the customer's deductable. And wait 8 to 12 weeks for them to send you your check for half of what you normally charge.

HW companies don't pay all the cost of doing a furnace swap out. So the customer has to pay some of it.

Had he gone out. And found a bad heat exchanger. And by some stroke of luck. The HW company agree to pay him to provide the furnace. they would only pay him a little above his cost for the furnace(HWC's get their furnace's and A/C's for a lot less then we do).


Have you dealt with any HWC's.

[SBKold]

Plus it was a 2nd opinion so no deductible.

[genduct]

JP that is the real test, when in spite of the A-holes you remain the adult in the situation. Point is you did what you were supposed to do. Would have been better if they would have just gone along but who knows, did they have to get someone to stay with you while you were there or they can't handle change.
My policy is simple, demanding customers get to pay the premium that reflects their demands. The ones that are flexible pay less.
I have had customers try to bait me into saying something I would later regret. You just gotta be smarter than that.

[bigtime]

40 degrees, I have no idea where this guy is.
Couple of weeks ago after a week in Maine, we left Sunday AM in 50 degrees to get back to the city at 92. Right now, low temps in Philly.
Yeh we know the people weren't going to freeze to death, but what the hell is on call for?
I think he whimped out because he didn't feel like going out. Strap on a pair and do the job! If he thought the money was going to be a problem, he could have shown some business sense and called the Warranty Company. That's if he was interested in the business.
No, I'm not on CRACK You know there is a reason why they call that stuff DOPE

He handled it correctly. It would have cost someone $200 or so for him to go out and look at the furnace. Now, who do you think would pay this bill? The warranty co? The homeowner? Hahahaha.

I cant stand it when someone questions how a situation is handled, when they aint never been in the situation.

[bjones]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

[bigtime]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

Whos gonna be happy when the warranty company sends you a check in December for their "flat rate" fee of $1175 for a furnace install?

[genduct]

Beenthere , we typically deal with other contractors as a sub/supplier.
In my other life I have some investment/rental property and have had several interesting dealings with Insurance Companies. You make your deal up front and if they don't want to pay the price within your terms, you walk! From the HO point of view you tell them the situation and you suggest that they might want to call their State's Insurance Commissioner or the State Attorney General about their BAD FAITH. It has really been interesting, when as a customer, I have told the "adjuster" that very thing. I have also spoken with their supervisors and let them know that I was sending a certified letter outlining our conversation and the proposed solution their subordinate has chosen to reject for future reference, and magically had them reconsider. Their job is to collect premiums, not to pay out. They also don't want to have to send an attorney to defend their position in small claims court

[SBKold]

And then you woke up and realized it was all just a dream........

Noone is installing furnaces in the middle of the night

[bigtime]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

I know your a smart guy, you write long thoughtful stuff and fly airplanes. You post stuff like this and I think I need to read more books... Maybe Ill figure it out one day.

[big sky hvac]

40 degrees, I have no idea where this guy is.
Couple of weeks ago after a week in Maine, we left Sunday AM in 50 degrees to get back to the city at 92. Right now, low temps in Philly.
Yeh we know the people weren't going to freeze to death, but what the hell is on call for?
I think he whimped out because he didn't feel like going out. Strap on a pair and do the job! If he thought the money was going to be a problem, he could have shown some business sense and called the Warranty Company. That's if he was interested in the business.
No, I'm not on CRACK You know there is a reason why they call that stuff DOPE

You might try taking a deep breath, count to 10 and rethink this situation. Lets say he goes out there and it does have a bad heat exchanger. It would be highly unlikely that the home warranty company is going to pay to have a new one(furnace) installed at overtime rates. If they're not willing to pay for, do you really think the homeowner is going to? It might be a different story if it was in the dead of winter and it's been below zero for a week, but it is September. And why is it his job to call the home warranty company? What are they going to be able to do for him? IMO, those home warranty companies are a scam and a complete waste of money. I think by not going out there, he saved the customer money. He goes out, finds a bad heat exchanger, can't repair the furnace, can't install a new furnace but she still has to pay the service call for essentially a wasted trip. He was looking out for her best interests.

[genduct]

Maybe Ill figure it out one day.
FROM YOUR LIPS TO GOD'S EARS

[SBKold]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

Hold on.....This sounds corporate.......do you by chance own a ONE HOUR franchise?

[bjones]

Whos gonna be happy when the warranty company sends you a check in December for their "flat rate" fee of $1175 for a furnace install?

Please, re-read my post. "She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW."

Why would anyone wait for the warranty company to send them a check? You don't work for the warranty company. You work for the customer.

The customer pays you for the furnace and they wait for the warranty company to send them a check.

Also, the warranty company does not set my prices. I don't care what the warranty company is going to pay. It has nothing to do with what I charge. I don't work for the warranty company.

We do it this way all the time. We advise the customer of this before we dispatch to the call. Rarely do we have a problem with a customer not wanting to pay us up front and never is it a problem they aren't paid the full amount from the warranty company.

Anyone who waits for the warranty company to pay them and accepts what they pay is a foolish business person.

[bjones]

Hold on.....This sounds corporate.......do you by chance own a ONE HOUR franchise?

No I'm not. www.1800jonesco.com

"Sounds corporate?" What does that mean? It's practicle, accepted, business practices.

[bjones]

And then you woke up and realized it was all just a dream........

Noone is installing furnaces in the middle of the night

Your not installing furnaces in the middle of the night.

We do, at least three or four times a heating season and that's not counting the Saturday & Sunday's we install them during the day.

[SBKold]

No I'm not. www.1800jonesco.com

"Sounds corporate?" What does that mean? It's practicle, accepted, business practices.

Ok so are you serious? You really took this call today?

And installed the new furnace?

[SBKold]

Your not installing furnaces in the middle of the night.

We do, at least three or four times a heating season and that's not counting the Saturday & Sunday's we install them during the day.

I am certainly not.

I can certainly see where someone would want to corner that part of the market and I will be the first to say looks like you did a good job.

I think ill just stick to working on them in the day.

I would like to compare and contrast some of your installs that were done day vs late nights.

Your website looks great.

[jim147]

I think you handled it just fine.

Some people here haven't spent years dealing with AHS ect. Or their customers.

The customer isn't going to pay you in full. They paid for a warranty. It's hard enough getting them to pay the deductible.

Where is he that it is 40? I'm not sure where he is. But my friend in big sky country told me it was 35 there two days ago.

jim

[pacnw]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

glad I could spread the wealth around, I was busy enough as it was.

[pacnw]

Think his conscience is bothering him and that's why he needed to share this story?


guess again!!!!!!

I will sleep tight and warm tonight.

[bjones]

Ok so are you serious? You really took this call today?

And installed the new furnace?

No, not this time. I was trying to make a point; but we do get these customers and we do install furnaces in the middle of the night from competitors that don't want to take care of the customer when they want to be taken care of.

What most here don't understand that it's about taking care of the customer. What is important is what the customer thinks important, not what the tech/owner thinks is important. It's not what the tech/owner thinks is an emergency, it's what the customer thinks is an emergency. It's not the tech/owner that decides when it gets installed, it’s the customer. If they think it's an emergency...it's an emergency and it our job to take of them; when they want it, not when we want it. Get it?

They are the customer, they are the ones with the problem and we are the ones that are supposed to have the solution. It's called customer service, it's called empathy, and it’s called good business.

They are the ones with the money...the money is what keeps us in business. Understand the business from an owner’s perspective.

The customer is revenue. You (the tech) are an expense. You want the best pay, benefits, steady year round work with a company with a stellar reputation and the best working conditions in the industry? Then take care of our customers. If you don't, I'll get someone who will. That's how we roll here.

Hopefully we can raise the bar in this industry if some of us will just get these concepts.

Peace!

[pacnw]

Buddy, I don't know you and you don't know me, I think you are a younger guy, maybe 30's I'm 41 and dealing with the public since I was 15 I would like to share with you that as you get older, some of us begin to get a different sense of the customers. We don't listen to their shrill, emotional voice, remember she and her kids are cold. We find out what the problem is, and then try to fix it.
still remember, but that is not what we are supposed to do!!!
IS not the policy that fits fixing the problem.
but it is the policy that keeps me employed

If you know this other company even a better reason to stick it to them!
which is why I told her of prior issues. Her main concern was to get a unit TODAY!!! and I just could not make that happen. So that honesty cost the call.

I think you missed an opportunity by letting your pride get in your way.
You didn't like her talking to you like that so you founds a reason not to help her and so she and the kids deserve to be cold another coupla of nights. YEH, THAT WILL LEARN THEM GOOD
SHE SHOULD HAVE CALLED US FIRST, ON A REGULAR WORK DAY.
BESIDES I DON'T WANT TO GO OUT TONIGHT.
I was already out.

Just don't find myself agreeing with you. If you are going to make it in this business, you're going to need to filter out the emotion emotion is filtered out by yelling and screaming in the van on the way to the call. Courteousness, honesty and a polite voice are used to gain a customer. Maybe in a coupla years you'll be able to at least understand my point of view. But you probably think I also am also arrogant/demanding
Well you'ld be partly correct, I am demanding. I want people to step up and do what they are there to do.

I am also demanding, of myself (thus posting here to get others prospective), my coworkers ( most of whom wish to do as little as possible) and the customer (who needs to realize they have a responsibility in all of this, too).

[bjones]

glad I could spread the wealth around, I was busy enough as it was.

We'll take all you got! :)

[SBKold]

I absolutely understand your perspective.

As I said you are doing a good job at cornering that part. You market it well.

In this case though I was suprised to see a HW customer ready to open up their wallet.

I mean we can post pricing but Im sure your services dont come cheap.

I would speculate she wouldnt have even recieved 1/4 of the cost from the HWC.

[pacnw]

Beenthere, did you noticed I suggested he call the Warranty person from his location BEFORE he went out there. and how would this help? I get it, and the women probably figured she was going to wind up holding the bag.no, she agreed to pay me, but wanted a new unit NOW!!!!
I think he either isn't mature enough to know what to do OR just found a reason NOt to go out on this call. Guess which way I am leaning on this.
Think his conscience is bothering him and that's why he needed to share this story?
.

[bigtime]

No, not this time. I was trying to make a point; but we do get these customers and we do install furnaces in the middle of the night from competitors that don't want to take care of the customer when they want to be taken care of.

What most here don't understand that it's about taking care of the customer. What is important is what the customer thinks important, not what the tech/owner thinks is important. It's not what the tech/owner thinks is an emergency, it's what the customer thinks is an emergency. It's not the tech/owner that decides when it gets installed, it’s the customer. If they think it's an emergency...it's an emergency and it our job to take of them; when they want it, not when we want it. Get it?

They are the customer, they are the ones with the problem and we are the ones that are supposed to have the solution. It's called customer service, it's called empathy, and it’s called good business.

They are the ones with the money...the money is what keeps us in business. Understand the business from an owner’s perspective.

The customer is revenue. You (the tech) are an expense. You want the best pay, benefits, steady year round work with a company with a stellar reputation and the best working conditions in the industry? Then take care of our customers. If you don't, I'll get someone who will. That's how we roll here.

Hopefully we can raise the bar in this industry if some of us will just get these concepts.

Peace!

Two questions:

1. If the opening poster was an employee of yours, what would you tell him he did wrong monday morning? He told the lady how much it would cost, she said hed have to call the warranty co, blah, blah, blah....

2. If this call came to your company and one of your techs went out, do you really think your guys would be out installing the furnace right now this September night? What are the odds between 100% and, no way it aint happening.

[bjones]

I am certainly not.

I can certainly see where someone would want to corner that part of the market and I will be the first to say looks like you did a good job.

I think ill just stick to working on them in the day.

I would like to compare and contrast some of your installs that were done day vs late nights.

Your website looks great.

Well, at least you see why someone would want to corner that market, even though it's not for you.

Please understand, this only happens a few times a year. Most of the time we leave them with heaters and they are fine until the next day.

Quality control is very important here. They have access to the sheet metal shop and have fully stocked installation trucks that help us maintain a consistant quality.

Thanks for the kind words on website.

[bjones]

Two questions:

1. If the opening poster was an employee of yours, what would you tell him he did wrong monday morning? He told the lady how much it would cost, she said hed have to call the warranty co, blah, blah, blah....

2. If this call came to your company and one of your techs went out, do you really think your guys would be out installing the furnace right now this September night? What are the odds between 100% and, no way it aint happening.

You decided to answer your question in #1 with your statement in #2, so I won't bother to waste our time telling you anything.

After all, according to you, "it aint happening".

[pacnw]

No, not this time. I was trying to make a point; but we do get these customers and we do install furnaces in the middle of the night from competitors that don't want to take care of the customer when they want to be taken care of.

What most here don't understand that it's about taking care of the customer. What is important is what the customer thinks important, not what the tech/owner thinks is important. It's not what the tech/owner thinks is an emergency, it's what the customer thinks is an emergency. It's not the tech/owner that decides when it gets installed, it’s the customer. If they think it's an emergency...it's an emergency and it our job to take of them; when they want it, not when we want it. Get it?

They are the customer, they are the ones with the problem and we are the ones that are supposed to have the solution. It's called customer service, it's called empathy, and it’s called good business.

They are the ones with the money...the money is what keeps us in business. Understand the business from an owner’s perspective.

The customer is revenue. You (the tech) are an expense. You want the best pay, benefits, steady year round work with a company with a stellar reputation and the best working conditions in the industry? Then take care of our customers. If you don't, I'll get someone who will. That's how we roll here.

Hopefully we can raise the bar in this industry if some of us will just get these concepts.

Peace!

I agree with this completely.

We don't offer those services and that is what cost us/me at this point.

I could have lied and said sure thing, but I did not and hopefully she found someone to do it for her.

she did say that I was the fourth or fifth company she called and the only one to call her back, including the original company!!

The issue in this situation, in my mind is;

1) if it were I in the Lady's position, come on out since you responded and let's get things started for early next week.

2) it is mid 40's-50's at night, couple space heaters from a local store and things are good until normal business.

3) you live in a place that gets below freezing constantly, you have 2 toddlers, a previous company shut off you heat and you have NO back up source of heat and no relative or friend to stay with?

4) this will make me sound arrogant, the old saying "... poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part...".

5)

[bigtime]

You decided to answer your question in #1 with your statement in #2, so I won't bother to waste our time telling you anything.

After all, according to you, "it aint happening".

Okay, Ill rephrase:

1. If the opening poster was one of your employees, what would you explain to him he should have done differently when he came in Monday am.

2. If 100 calls came in exactly like this to your co., how many of them would you expect to result in a furnace change out on the same september saturday night?

Its not wasting my time, Im really interested in your answer.

[pacnw]

here is the difference between bjones and me, he has a policy in place to do just what I could not.

No installers, no salesperson, no pricing, no sizing calc (sales does this) and the warranty company to deal with.

I am but an "expense"!!!

[pacnw]

double post- server issues!!

[bjones]

Okay, Ill rephrase:

1. If the opening poster was one of your employees, what would you explain to him he should have done differently when he came in Monday am.

2. If 100 calls came in exactly like this to your co., how many of them would you expect to result in a furnace change out on the same september saturday night?

Its not wasting my time, Im really interested in your answer.

Ans. #1 We have an entirely different culture here at Jones; so that call would have gone down completely different and we would not need to have a conversation on Monday morning. What happen on your call is not necessarilty your fault. It's a result of how you were trained to handle it.

Ans. #2 Every single one of them; but that does not necessarily mean that is how it would go down. We carry two electric heaters (the oil filled radiator type) on every one of our service trucks. We inspect the furnace, offer solutions and if it's in the best interest of the customer we sell them a new furnace. If the heat exchanger is cracked we send out another tech or a supervisor to confirm it. The customer signs for the heaters and we install the new furnace, in most cases, the next morning. We take care of the customer.

You have not been taught the importance, the value, of the customer. Your initial post clearly shows your contempt for the customer. They need to go to the store to get heaters and if they don't have relatives or friends it's their problem. Here, at Jones, we'll put you up in a hotel, at our expense, if that's what will make you more comfortable. We offer it all the time and on rare occation some take us up on it. Most want to stay in their home.

It's all about your perspective. You haven't been trained in customer service.

The fish stinks at the head.

[pacnw]

Ans. #1 We have an entirely different culture here at Jones; so that call would have gone down completely different and we would not need to have a conversation on Monday morning. What happen on your call is not necessarily your fault. It's a result of how you were trained to handle it.

less about training and more about options.

Ans. #2 Every single one of them; but that does not necessarily mean that is how it would go down. We carry two electric heaters (the oil filled radiator type) on every one of our service trucks. We inspect the furnace, offer solutions and if it's in the best interest of the customer we sell them a new furnace. If the heat exchanger is cracked we send out another tech or a supervisor to confirm it. The customer signs for the heaters and we install the new furnace, in most cases, the next morning. We take care of the customer.

our company would provide heaters during normal business hours. I have purchased a heater to have on my van during heating season, just felt it was not heating season yet.

You have not been taught the importance, the value, of the customer. Your initial post clearly shows your contempt for the customer. They need to go to the store to get heaters and if they don't have relatives or friends it's their problem. I would not call it a problem in most cases, but lack of planning and a sense of entitlement. Here, at Jones, we'll put you up in a hotel, at our expense, really, or is the cost just folded in? if that's what will make you more comfortable. We offer it all the time and on rare occasion some take us up on it. Most want to stay in their home.

It's all about your perspective. You haven't been trained in customer service.

The fish stinks at the head.

the "Boss" makes the company and it sounds like you do go the extra miles to provide total customer service as well as the ability for the field tech to provide it.

whether you believe it or not, I would excel in the environment you provide.

[kevinnn]

That's right. The customer is always right, except when they want to terminate a flue pipe inside a bedroom. That is when you have to be direct, stern and chance that they may not like you for saving their lives.

[tedkidd]

I agree with the space heater thing, and supply houses will open for emergencies, for a charge. But I may have missed something. When told about the cost of a service call the ho balked, right? So where do you go from there? She wanted a free service call, do you go? I think you can't, not unless you are willing to chase the war co.

So there are some contradictions here.

And Jones, why aren't you BPI Accredited?

[darctangent]

I've gotta say this turned into an interesting thread.

Almost everything that was purposed here by the forward thinkers is within my business model and abilities.

The only exceptions are

1) time to do a manual J. As per a discussion in B&M I am very detail oriented in assessment of the thermal envelope, and I always do a Manual J except in a rare circumstance that it's a condo or similar with a obviously small heat load. this kind of time frame just doesn't work.

2) The Hotel room. I'm not saying I couldn't, just that I never have. There have been a couple of jobs that I could have offered it, but they never would have gone for it.

I should note that #1 could be dealt with using a furnace temped in.

I also carry electric heaters on the truck - four of them. If I didn't have them, I'd run out and buy them. I guess that's just one of the perks with a 15' box truck.

By the way, why can't the service tech put in a furnace, or is that just beneath him?

The next time any employee feels like a job is beneath them, they might want to think about how it's going to go when their boss does it because nobody else did.- because that's what ends up happening. Don't get caught with your pants down.

Particularly when pipes could freeze, I'll do whatever it takes.

[beenthere]

Not to worry. She called my company and one of my friendly, customer service consious, the customer is always right, senior techs ran the call. She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW.

My service tech started to disconnect the old furnace while the install crew was on the way. He left two electric heaters for her to use to keep her kids warm and the installers will bring them back to the shop.

We have an install crew there now installing the new furnace. The service tech got a spiff and the install crew got a bonus + overtime to work tonight.

The customers happy, the tech is happy, the install crew is happy and I'm happy.

The service tech is home and available to satisfy the needs of the next customer.

Thanks for the business...

I keep forgetting how close Orange county is to Chicago. Only took your tech 7 or 8 hours to get there, right.

[beenthere]

I've gotta say this turned into an interesting thread.

Almost everything that was purposed here by the forward thinkers is within my business model and abilities.

The only exceptions are

1) time to do a manual J. As per a discussion in B&M I am very detail oriented in assessment of the thermal envelope, and I always do a Manual J except in a rare circumstance that it's a condo or similar with a obviously small heat load. this kind of time frame just doesn't work.

2) The Hotel room. I'm not saying I couldn't, just that I never have. There have been a couple of jobs that I could have offered it, but they never would have gone for it.

I should note that #1 could be dealt with using a furnace temped in.

I also carry electric heaters on the truck - four of them. If I didn't have them, I'd run out and buy them. I guess that's just one of the perks with a 15' box truck.

By the way, why can't the service tech put in a furnace, or is that just beneath him?

The next time any employee feels like a job is beneath them, they might want to think about how it's going to go when their boss does it because nobody else did.- because that's what ends up happening. Don't get caught with your pants down.

Particularly when pipes could freeze, I'll do whatever it takes.

A service tech that installs a furnace in the middle of the night for one customer. Can't take other calls while he is installing that furnace. And many companies are not set up that they have a back up call guy. To allow for such a thing.

ALL service trucks should have space heaters on them(sometimes can be hard to find/keep room for them in the middle of a hot bust summer).



How well the OP did, or didn't handle this call. We each have our own opinion.


While the customer didn't bring about the failure of her furnace intentionally. She is the one that waited to get a second opinion, until a Saturday. And brought about her own dilemma of no heat on a Saturday.

In reality. This sounds alot like a typical first one to get there, gets the work call. That probably all of us have had at one time or another.
Sorry, I don't race to service calls. To find 3 other trucks also there, and here someone say, " they got here first so they get the work, bye". I still charge them a service fee. Which really ticks them off(sometimes didn't get paid the fee, other times I did, and they will never call again).

[bjones]

I agree with the space heater thing, and supply houses will open for emergencies, for a charge. But I may have missed something. When told about the cost of a service call the ho balked, right? So where do you go from there? She wanted a free service call, do you go? I think you can't, not unless you are willing to chase the war co.

So there are some contradictions here.

And Jones, why aren't you BPI Accredited?

We are BPI accredited. We also belong to NCI and are in the process of putting all our techs through the training. Our techs are also NATE certified.

Yes, by your own admission, apparently you did miss something. If they don't want to pay the service call we don't go. We are not a charity (although we do donate to several charities). We have in the past worked out arrangements for existing customers with a hardship issue, so I don't want you think we are heartless.

There are no "contradictions", only your lack of understanding of what I wrote in my post regarding warranty companies. We don't change or wave our fees based on what a warranty company is willing to pay a customer. It has nothing to do with us. I has nothing to do with what we charge, when and how much we charge. Our pricing structure and payment terms are what we adhere to with all customers.

"ho"? Is it necessary to take it down to this level? Shame on you.

Peace...

[bjones]

I keep forgetting how close Orange county is to Chicago. Only took your tech 7 or 8 hours to get there, right.

Read post #40.

[beenthere]

Read post #40.


I read it.

But made my post anyway.

[darctangent]

"ho"? Is it necessary to take it down to this level? Shame on you.

Peace...
HO= home owner

[bjones]

I've gotta say this turned into an interesting thread.

Almost everything that was purposed here by the forward thinkers is within my business model and abilities.

The only exceptions are

1) time to do a manual J. As per a discussion in B&M I am very detail oriented in assessment of the thermal envelope, and I always do a Manual J except in a rare circumstance that it's a condo or similar with a obviously small heat load. this kind of time frame just doesn't work.

2) The Hotel room. I'm not saying I couldn't, just that I never have. There have been a couple of jobs that I could have offered it, but they never would have gone for it.

I should note that #1 could be dealt with using a furnace temped in.

I also carry electric heaters on the truck - four of them. If I didn't have them, I'd run out and buy them. I guess that's just one of the perks with a 15' box truck.

By the way, why can't the service tech put in a furnace, or is that just beneath him?

The next time any employee feels like a job is beneath them, they might want to think about how it's going to go when their boss does it because nobody else did.- because that's what ends up happening. Don't get caught with your pants down.

Particularly when pipes could freeze, I'll do whatever it takes.

#1 All of our techs know how to do a heat loss and heat gain. They also know system design. We won't put a furnace in if there is a problem with the duct work. They must be willing to do the repairs. When they don't want to address the other problems with the system because the last guy didn't mention it then on occasion we will lose the job. It happens, but we will not install a new furnace to inadequate duct work. And no, we do not have a customer "sign off" knowing it's wrong and install it anyway. That's just wrong and we won't do it.

#2 Most folks want to stay in their home no matter what. We offer it, but I don't think, over the past 15 years, we've had more than 3 or 4 people do it.

I suppose you could "temp" a furnace in, but we won't because of the liability issues.

Our service techs can, and on occasion will, install a furnace. It's just that we want him available to take other calls and usually have an install crew do it. Sometimes we send one guy to help get the old one out and the new one in and then cut the tech loose. Nothing is necessarily cast in stone; we do what makes sense under the circumstances.

It's definitely not "beneath them" to install a furnace.

Peace

[bjones]

HO= home owner

Ooops, sorry, my bad.

[darctangent]

A service tech that installs a furnace in the middle of the night for one customer. Can't take other calls while he is installing that furnace. And many companies are not set up that they have a back up call guy. To allow for such a thing.

ALL service trucks should have space heaters on them(sometimes can be hard to find/keep room for them in the middle of a hot bust summer).



How well the OP did, or didn't handle this call. We each have our own opinion.


While the customer didn't bring about the failure of her furnace intentionally. She is the one that waited to get a second opinion, until a Saturday. And brought about her own dilemma of no heat on a Saturday.

In reality. This sounds alot like a typical first one to get there, gets the work call. That probably all of us have had at one time or another.
Sorry, I don't race to service calls. To find 3 other trucks also there, and here someone say, " they got here first so they get the work, bye". I still charge them a service fee. Which really ticks them off(sometimes didn't get paid the fee, other times I did, and they will never call again).

I'm not trying to bash, thrash anybody. really. I hope you don't think that I am.

I get what you are saying about the HO creating their own circumstance. I get what you are saying the about the "capabilities" of the company.

but...

if it's even conceivable that a one (and a half) man band like me could pull this off, then others could too.

Hell, if I had a guy on call and this happened, I'd want him to call me and I would either shoot it down or go after it.

If somebody is willing to pay twice my normal price for a furnace install, than the answer is YES, I want that job. Now, you might say, Who the heck said anything about twice my normal price? Nobody. But... Who said they wouldn't? There are comanies that get something like twice my price all the time, i.e- a local company is reported to have charged a customer $xxxx (ooops, think crazy number here-I should know better) for two tank style water heaters. How could they possibly get that much for water heaters? I don't know. I've never tried. Maybe in right circumstance, I should ask the customer and let them choose, instead of me choosing for them.

I think that was bjones, and (?) genduct's point- if you handle this call in the right way then there's money to be made. a new (PITA) but new customer to be had.

The trouble of these things is being able to recognize it for what it is while it's happening and to be able to react to it.

once again, I'm not trying to pass judgment on the OP, or anybody else. All I"m saying is that if the HO calls me to dig them out of a whole, maybe I should ask for money that makes it all worth while. Then, if the HO wants to wait after they've had some sense knocked into them, so be it.

As to the service tech getting more calls, maybe he will, maybe he won't. after all it's mild weather. That's the crap shoot of the HVAC business.

[darctangent]

Ooops, sorry, my bad.

Well, If you want to get technical about it, he typed it in lower case, so it it was conceivable, especially since the HO was a woman, but yeah, you did sorta slip on the banana peel.

BTW, the service tech/install question wasn't directed at you specifically, but rather at anybody that thinks the trade that needs a "lower level" employee to install equipment. I might very well break from that model, and everybody is service tech, but at different "levels"


Most companies that I am aware of have knuckleheads that call themselves installers that I wouldn't want as employees. I'd far rather have a service tech that was ready to do installs when required.

If they don't know what a good service tech knows, they aren't good enough to install.

[bigtime]

I think a one-man company will handle a call like this differently than a big company. In a big co you have weekends your on call, and you just work that weekend. In a small company its the same guy getting called all the time.

When I worked in resi, I was by myself. There is no way I would have done a call like that on a Saturday afternoon. Sure, you can make money on these calls, but I was interested in making my money monday thru friday. Id go out on weekends and evenings during extreme weather, but only for existing customers. And I would try to talk them into waiting before I would go. For me, life is to short to make this work so important that you drop everything, day or night, when the call come in.

[bjones]

Well, If you want to get technical about it, he typed it in lower case, so it it was conceivable, especially since the HO was a woman, but yeah, you did sorta slip on the banana peel.

BTW, the service tech/install question wasn't directed at you specifically, but rather at anybody that thinks the trade that needs a "lower level" employee to install equipment. I might very well break from that model, and everybody is service tech, but at different "levels"


Most companies that I am aware of have knuckleheads that call themselves installers that I wouldn't want as employees. I'd far rather have a service tech that was ready to do installs when required.

If they don't know what a good service tech knows, they aren't good enough to install.

We have three install crews. We can go to four with our techs if necessary. We have two man (two person) installation crews. The "lead installer" and "installer". We do not use "helpers".

All "lead installers" can, and do, do service when needed. "Installers" (the second person on the crew) are up and coming in the field. They are tech school grads working their way up. They can not do service (yet) but some can, if called upon, do certain installation themselves with a quality control audit at the end of the job by the install manager.

Our "lead installers", three of them, choose to do installations because that's what they enjoy. As they get older and tire of the physical demands they'll have the opportunity to move in service if they desire.

"Installers" must become lead installers before we allow them to move into the service department and only after they have completed all the required training for NATE.

Peace

[bjones]

I think a one-man company will handle a call like this differently than a big company. In a big co you have weekends your on call, and you just work that weekend. In a small company its the same guy getting called all the time.

When I worked in resi, I was by myself. There is no way I would have done a call like that on a Saturday afternoon. Sure, you can make money on these calls, but I was interested in making my money monday thru friday. Id go out on weekends and evenings during extreme weather, but only for existing customers. And I would try to talk them into waiting before I would go. For me, life is to short to make this work so important that you drop everything, day or night, when the call come in.

Your right, there is only so much you can do as a one or two man shop. You have to have a life.

The business or your work as a technician is not your life. Your life should be your family, spiritual beliefs (if any), your hobies and things you enjoy in life other than work. Not that work shouldn't be fulfilling, it is for me.

Finding the balance is important and differnt for eveyone.

Peace

[darctangent]

We have three install crews. We can go to four with our techs if necessary. We have two man (two person) installation crews. The "lead installer" and "installer". We do not use "helpers".

All "lead installers" can, and do, do service when needed. "Installers" (the second person on the crew) are up and coming in the field. They are tech school grads working their way up. They can not do service (yet) but some can, if called upon, do certain installation themselves with a quality control audit at the end of the job by the install manager.

Our "lead installers", three of them, choose to do installations because that's what they enjoy. As they get older and tire of the physical demands they'll have the opportunity to move in service if they desire.

"Installers" must become lead installers before we allow them to move into the service department and only after they have completed all the required training for NATE.

Peace

That's a little more in line with what I'm talking about. Obviously there needs to be a progression for people to move through, and your setup provides that.

[DavidNJ]

An interesting topic. I liked genduct's first post.

Lot's of different things coming together.

1) The caller had no idea of how HVAC service worked.

2) The caller had paid, directly or indirectly, for a warranty, but had only a vague idea how that worked.

3) The caller didn't understand the magnitude of the problem. They may have had a bumper sticker 'Make War Illegal'.

4) The poster's company didn't have a procedure for this situation.

genduct probably got the procedure right: a call to the warranty company may have cleared up the situation. It could have established reimbursement policy for both service call, repair, and replacement. Most likely, the information from the caller was incorrect.

My mother used to say you need to sell the product, deliver the product, and collect the money. This was a new caller with no prior relationship who was probably expecting payment to be handled by a third party. Insuring payment in advance, either from the warranty company or the homeowner, is essential. If that can't be done, I don't see how this call can be taken.

[darctangent]

I think a one-man company will handle a call like this differently than a big company. In a big co you have weekends your on call, and you just work that weekend. In a small company its the same guy getting called all the time.

When I worked in resi, I was by myself. There is no way I would have done a call like that on a Saturday afternoon. Sure, you can make money on these calls, but I was interested in making my money monday thru friday. Id go out on weekends and evenings during extreme weather, but only for existing customers. And I would try to talk them into waiting before I would go. For me, life is to short to make this work so important that you drop everything, day or night, when the call come in.

Like I said, most all of this is doable for me, and if snatches a customer out of the grips of some of my lessor, but larger competitors, then that's ok with me.

[ga-hvac-tech]

This is an interesting thread, worth the read IMO. Here are a couple of thoughts:

1) We are in a 'soft economy', there is not as much work out there as years back. Thankfully in my area there are less players so prices are firming up a little from last year.
2) As has been noted repeatedly, large companies have different resources to handle this situation than small shops do.
3) Equipment availability is an issue. Personally I could not get my Ruud equipment after 4:00 PM Friday, however I could get an Air-Ease until noon or an Arco-Air until mid afternoon on Saturday.

Now getting to specifics of this situation:
1) The customer requested a 'second opinion'. I did not see any mention of the customer being willing nor agreeing to pay for the service call.
2) I have dealt with HW companies, BeenThere is correct about them. Some of you guys may have had better experiences than I; Most of the folks I talk to that have HW's think it is all free and the 'insurance' will pay me... They would literally LAUGH AT ME TO MY FACE if I said 'you pay me and collect your reimburcement from the HW co'.

My company policy on this is as follows:
1) If I were in the situation of the OP, I would request a guarantee of payment for the service call BEFORE going out. And yes, it would be the weekend rate because this is not an established customer.
2) If I did go out (after establishing payment would be made), and found a 'dead furnace' (HXE or other issue requiring a replacement), I would offer the HO options: New furnace now for $$$, elec heaters for the weekend (ONLY with a signed contract AND deposit on the replacement furance) and I will put in a new unit per agreed schedule.
3) Ticket would reflect heaters are on loan, they MUST be returned in the same condition, and I am not responsible for any liability from the elec heaters (remember folks; an elec heater could start an elec fire).

This policy will give the customer options to choose what they want...

Note that I do NOT bill HW companies. The customer pays me and seeks reimburcement on their own. Because of my billing policy with HW co's; I rarely get much HW work.

Story: Cute single blonde HO; put in a new system for her 2006 (no, not my type, but easy on the eyes). She was so impressed with me she referred me to her parents and her parents referred me to others.
She got married to this sales guy, who promptly put their house and his rental house on HW. He literally expected me to go out to his rental (no heat either system in January with highs in the 30's), and evaluate the needs for free... then call the warranty co to get an approval and payment details. This home had a single-mom family with 3 pre-school kids and grandma taking care of them. Owner could care less about the welfare of the renters... it was ALL about $$$. This is similar to the attitude I see in many HW folks.
BTW: I reported them to the county... charges were filed. Yeah, I lost referrals from the guy and his new wife... kept referrals from her parents and others.

[darctangent]

OK, this is going to sound totally off the wall, but...

did somebody try to call me a few minutes ago?

I won't go into detail but I have a suspicion somebody from the site just tried to call, I happened to be busy.

Thought it dovetailed neatly w/ this discussion, and here I missed a call on the business line. No caller ID came up, no message.

haha.

Feel free to ignore if this was irrelevant.

[beenthere]

LOL... If it was someone from this site. It wasn't me.

[pacnw]

in the company I work for there are dedicated installers, journeyman union sheet metal guys and their apprentices. they are NOT knuckleheads, but could not do service to save their lives.

our techs substitute for the apprentices when work load is low in service.

techs do not do sheet metal and have no training.

techs do not know ducts or sizing and that is the way Company wants it. (yes this leads to other issues that I am trying to get changed).

the Homeowner DID agree to pay, BUT only if I could guarantee an install later on Saturday as "... next week is too late..."

there is no job beneath me, not only seniority wise but I get paid the same no matter what I do.

[pacnw]

I've gotta say this turned into an interesting thread.

Almost everything that was purposed here by the forward thinkers is within my business model and abilities.

The only exceptions are

1) time to do a manual J. As per a discussion in B&M I am very detail oriented in assessment of the thermal envelope, and I always do a Manual J except in a rare circumstance that it's a condo or similar with a obviously small heat load. this kind of time frame just doesn't work.

2) The Hotel room. I'm not saying I couldn't, just that I never have. There have been a couple of jobs that I could have offered it, but they never would have gone for it.

I should note that #1 could be dealt with using a furnace temped in.

I also carry electric heaters on the truck - four of them. If I didn't have them, I'd run out and buy them. I guess that's just one of the perks with a 15' box truck.
they go in during winter, not 45°-55° night temps.

By the way, why can't the service tech put in a furnace, or is that just beneath him?
in no way beneath me, just no trained in or expected to do so.

The next time any employee feels like a job is beneath them, they might want to think about how it's going to go when their boss does it because nobody else did.- because that's what ends up happening. Don't get caught with your pants down.

Particularly when pipes could freeze, I'll do whatever it takes.as per above and prior posts, it is not even close to freezing!!!!

during dead of winter things may have been different, but I still do not think there would be a chance in he!! of an unscheduled Saturday install by our company!!!!!

[SBKold]

There will always be these customers out there...One cannot fault companies like JonesCo for catering to their demands.

We all have our limitations

Pacnw - dont feel bad that you couldnt meet her demands. This does not mean you failed as a tech or a person.

Your company (and neither mine) can cater to these customers and meet their irrational demands...justified by 2x$!

[Some Dude]

You did precisely the right thing.
Hoe warranty companies often try and supply their own furnace and imo are not to be trusted.
The only way you could have safely done any work for her was to have her take full financial responsibility for any service or work preformed , then let her deal with the warranty company.

I also dont think you could have explained any of this to her, she doesnt sound very reasonable, its HER warranty company, not yours or one you sold, again, i do not trust waranty companies.

[hvacvegas]

I don't see anything wrong with whatcha did pacnw. If anything, you did everything right. The only thing that would have happened is you opening a can of worms.

I'm surprised you guys don't require money in advance on new customers! The service techs in the company I work for have to get a credit card number before they leave the house for ON-CALL.

[darctangent]

There will always be these customers out there...One cannot fault companies like JonesCo for catering to their demands.

We all have our limitations

Pacnw - dont feel bad that you couldnt meet her demands. This does not mean you failed as a tech or a person.

Your company (and neither mine) can cater to these customers and meet their irrational demands...justified by 2x$!

Nothing in what I said was intended to diminish Pannw. The structure for a company is created by the owner and from there, his agents impowered to make choices like these. Additionally you have an at least a partially unionized work force, and while I don't know what influence that has on the choices spoken of here, I have no doubt that there is at least some. I think that the fact tat you are here reading, learning and posting speaks volumes.

Perhaps the only thing that I might have expected of you in this situation would be to call your supervisor/boss and say " so, what do you want to do with this one boss?" Now, if you've been told not to do that, then, well.. that's your bosses choice and he signs the checks as they say.

BTW, the 2x$ thing shouldn't be taken too literally, I just pulled that out of my butt. But the point still stands. If the customer starts making what might be irrational demands, then the only choices you have are to walk away or present what might be considered an irrational price in other circumstances, but is now simply what needs to be charged to make happen what the customer wants in the time frame that they want it in.


doing custom system design on short notice
Opening up one or more warehouses for equipment and supplies.
Mobilizing additional manpower at significantly higher than normal pay scale.
Working at odd hours and likely in poor lighting.

yes, ladies and gentlemen, if this is being done, it costs more money to do it. And in my mind, you had damn well better pay your employees well enough to make it worth it to them.


As to the knucklehead comment, I assure you that Colorado is littered with them.

As testimony to that, uncased coils are almost the rule in both new construction and many retrofit companies, including a top five Trane dealer I once worked for.

I wish I were more in the habit of taking pictures of this crap.

Pacnw, don't feel slighted by this thread, just take notes on it for when you are calling the shots, then you can make your own choice.

[tedkidd]

the Homeowner DID agree to pay, BUT only if I could guarantee an install later on Saturday as "... next week is too late..."



Jones, maybe I didn't miss as much as we thought. Given your comments to pacnw that he should have gone, and statement you don't run for free, guess you'd have said you could get it in that same day?

Also, with such a nice website I guess your bpi accreditation is brand new, or don't you do site updates? Seems a pretty big thing not have any mention of on your site.

[DanW13]

I've dealt with HW's. Calling them from your office/cell phone gets you a nice person to talk to.

Then you go out, and collect the customer's deductable. And wait 8 to 12 weeks for them to send you your check for half of what you normally charge.

HW companies don't pay all the cost of doing a furnace swap out. So the customer has to pay some of it.

Had he gone out. And found a bad heat exchanger. And by some stroke of luck. The HW company agree to pay him to provide the furnace. they would only pay him a little above his cost for the furnace(HWC's get their furnace's and A/C's for a lot less then we do).


Have you dealt with any HWC's.

From reading this string of post on this subject and others in the past, seems to me though I could be wrong but don't you think it's time the HVAC community starts to educate these HWC's to what the cost are and the unforeseeable issues that may or could arise when doing a install, especially n weekends or in the middle of the night ect..... Seems to be there unaware of the cost of doing business today and the main reason there in business which is to pay for a complete replacements regardless whos charging fro the work, everyone might have similar rates, but again I know and you pros know theres always the unforeseen that bites you in the ass every time.

I have HO insurance, I pay for full replacement of the contents of my house plus replacement on my home God forid a tornado wipes me out, these HWC's I'm sure operate in much the same way though I never used or needed them but I suspect if a customer is paying for full replacement they then should ante up don't ya think ?

[ga-hvac-tech]

HW co's are IMO not the same a HO insurance co's. Take a careful look at the business model and the track record of behavior... one will see a different pattern of doing business.

Most of the most difficult customers I have dealt with in over 30 years of running a small resi business (both home improvement and HVAC) come from folks that had a HW and expected a freebee (with the contractor getting paid directly from the HW co).

Then theh HO complained to no end about what they did not get (when the HW co paid way less than market rate for the work).

Not a place I am willing to work as long as there are other customers out there.

[Some Dude]

Please, re-read my post. "She paid in full and is going to wait to be reimbursed by the HW."

Why would anyone wait for the warranty company to send them a check? You don't work for the warranty company. You work for the customer.

The customer pays you for the furnace and they wait for the warranty company to send them a check.

Also, the warranty company does not set my prices. I don't care what the warranty company is going to pay. It has nothing to do with what I charge. I don't work for the warranty company.

We do it this way all the time. We advise the customer of this before we dispatch to the call. Rarely do we have a problem with a customer not wanting to pay us up front and never is it a problem they aren't paid the full amount from the warranty company.

Anyone who waits for the warranty company to pay them and accepts what they pay is a foolish business person.

This is the only way to do it, i would just be concerned that the customer will not (understand) exactly what the deal is , even if it is put in writing and repeatedly explained.

Have you ever had a customer call back and scream about the cost?

When i have dealt with these warranty companies in the past they wanted me to go to remichael and pick up their furnace,,,no dice.

On one job they offered the customer 800 dollars towards a new furnace if they went with another contractor other than the one they wanted to send.

I almost did sign up with one of these places but they ran at me kinda hard wanting me to run a call without any paperwork or etc. so i declined.

It made me wonder why they couldnt find someone to take care of them.

Ive also seen them try some imo crooked stuff, like claiming just about anything was a preexisting condition and not covered.

[big sky hvac]

I've personally never had any good experiences with Home Warranty Companies. After the last call I did earlier this summer, I refuse to do work for them anymore. From now on, if the customer has them, I explain to the customer that they will be paying me IN FULL for my services. They can in turn haggle with the HWC on getting their money back. You spend half of you time on site waiting on hold to speak to a "customer service represenative". These things a ploy to get people to feel comfortable about buying a new house and are a joke, IMO. There is a big difference between a Homeowners Insurance Policy and a Home Warranty Company.

[dk21]

Strictly from a consumer point of view of someone who has had a home warranty, I can't imagine that you'd want to be involved with doing work when one of those services is in the mix. I do believe that they are all pretty much crooks.

[trey3121]

The way we do is the home owner must pay all up front fees and then get the money back from the warranty company. I think that if she was willing to pay for the service call why not go. No matter what her adittude is she is still a customer and its still income for the company.

[beenthere]

From reading this string of post on this subject and others in the past, seems to me though I could be wrong but don't you think it's time the HVAC community starts to educate these HWC's to what the cost are and the unforeseeable issues that may or could arise when doing a install, especially n weekends or in the middle of the night ect..... Seems to be there unaware of the cost of doing business today and the main reason there in business which is to pay for a complete replacements regardless whos charging fro the work, everyone might have similar rates, but again I know and you pros know theres always the unforeseen that bites you in the ass every time.

I have HO insurance, I pay for full replacement of the contents of my house plus replacement on my home God forid a tornado wipes me out, these HWC's I'm sure operate in much the same way though I never used or needed them but I suspect if a customer is paying for full replacement they then should ante up don't ya think ?

They will always be able to find a company to do the work for the price they want to pay.

They don't make money by paying going rate.

If they charged 5 times what they do. Then they might be willing to pay going rate.