Leaky York; What Would You Do?

[man from trane]

I have a customer with a YCAS 200 ton that keeps getting small leaks in the U-Bends of the air-cooled condenser. Every time I fix one another pops up. It's a salt-air environment, and the machine is 11 years old. The original chiller for the building lasted 9 years. Right now I know of three small leaks, and it's losing around 32 lbs. of R-22 per month.

I've been telling the customer to replace this machine for the last year and a half, I've given him proposals for a new chiller, or to install all DX splits throughout (it's an indoor shopping mall) and several other options but he keeps stalling. The CW pump has bad motor bearings, burnt wiring at the peckerhead, and a leaky seal. The system could go at any minute and there's no backup. Of course if that happened the mall would probably be down at least a month and he would expect me to work around the clock until it's fixed.

My question: I don't think I can repair the largest of the three leaks due to the corroded copper. I seem to recall from my EPA class years ago that it's illegal to add refrigerant to a machine with a known leak. Can I use this to force him to move on a new system? It's getting ridiculous.

[klove]

Illegal if over 15% of the total charge in one years time on commercial equipment. I'd say that you meet that criteria on this machine.

You could get some new coils that are coated to resist salt-air environment, but those are pretty much just a gimmick from my experience. Either idea you mentioned is viable. Not a lot of other directions to go.

Most of the time you can just cut out and bypass circuits in the air-cooled condensers and it won't really effect operation. I've done 3 or 4 in a single condenser with no adverse effects when leaks were in places that they were resistant to repairing. Might work for you in this case....

[cperk]

Have you told the customer about these problems? Is he not wanting to get things fixed before it crashes? If so, I would let it crash like a plane into the himalayus and hit the bi@%ch be gone button when he called me. Let him panic enough to come of the wallet to replace or repair some of this stuff.

[supertek65]

send me to the carribean and i will fix it on my own time!

[man from trane]

Have you told the customer about these problems? Is he not wanting to get things fixed before it crashes? If so, I would let it crash like a plane into the himalayus and hit the bi@%ch be gone button when he called me. Let him panic enough to come of the wallet to replace or repair some of this stuff.

Love it! :yes: I'm not sure if he's cheap, broke, or just plain stupid. Problem is, on my island I'm pretty much the only guy who will touch a machine this size (we have a lot of small mini splits around) so he will be blowing up my phone with texts and voice mails if this thing dies and I will get no rest until it's fixed. I've bypassed various parts of the condenser already, and we've actually re-piped the #1 compressor to the circuit #2 condenser because the other compressor shorted to ground and the other condenser leaks like a collander. So it's only doing 100 tons, but that's ok because the mall is mostly empty. Anyone want to open a store in St. Croix? It's under the US Flag! :patriot:

This machine is SHOT, and I've told him that. It's 85 Degrees and 65% RH on a nice day and he is playing Russian Roulet with this thing. I'm thinking I'll explain that I could lose my EPA card by adding any more R-22 to this thing.

[man from trane]

send me to the carribean and i will fix it on my own time!

I think we could keep you busy for a while. I'd probably have over 50% of the business on the island by now if I could find a decent tech who could pass an FBI background check! :gah:

[supertek65]

ooh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:gah:

you did not say anything about FBI check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:gah::gah:





I think we could keep you busy for a while. I'd probably have over 50% of the business on the island by now if I could find a decent tech who could pass an FBI background check! :gah:

[man from trane]

ooh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:gah:

you did not say anything about FBI check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:gah::gah:

We could probably work around that. Do you like to party? Rum is cheaper than milk so finding someone who can get to work before noon without a hangover is difficult, too. :bsing:

[supertek65]

i will soak my fingers in acid and be right there!:munching:




We could probably work around that. Do you like to party? Rum is cheaper than milk so finding someone who can get to work before noon without a hangover is difficult, too. :bsing:

[supertek65]

Federal Booze Inspector

[man from trane]

Federal Booze Inspector

LOL...I know an electrician who starts drinking Corona at 7:00 am. I'll bet he drinks a case a day.

[supertek65]

i love that guy!



LOL...I know an electrician who starts drinking Corona at 7:00 am. I'll bet he drinks a case a day.

[cperk]

I think we could keep you busy for a while. I'd probably have over 50% of the business on the island by now if I could find a decent tech who could pass an FBI background check! :gah:

I can! I can! Pick me! Pick me!:putergreet::LOL:

[codgy]

Can't you install a couple of remote fan condensers next to unit and repipe for proper operation? No wonder owner balks at $xxxxxxxx replacement cost for entire chiller 8yrs omg.

[man from trane]

Can't you install a couple of remote fan condensers next to unit and repipe for proper operation? No wonder owner balks at $xxxxxxxx replacement cost for entire chiller 8yrs omg.

:eek2: You must be from here, that totally sounds like something I would find, lol. It's actually 11 years young, but still young. Air cooled condensers last 5-7 years here on average if not treated with Herocite. This was treated with Herocite but after a couple hurricanes dumped salt spray on it and no one bothered to rinse it off it's pretty bad.

But that just might work! Are you thinking something like a Bohn condenser you'd see on a supermarket rack? I can get those. But if not Bohn, where would I get one made for a 100 ton A/C application? A true hack would buy 20 5-ton condensing units, remove the compressors, and pipe all 20 condensers in parallel.

[man from trane]

Just did the calcs, Bohn doesn't make a large enough condenser. It's going to have to be for A/C applications.

Or maybe a closed-loop fluid cooler....wouldn't that be impervious to salt air since it's always wet with fresh water? Water consumption could be an issue since we pay 6 cents/gallon.

[york56]

Trane makes a remote condenser application large enough.

[supertek65]

:toetap:
I can! I can! Pick me! Pick me!:putergreet::beat::LOL:

[man from trane]

:toetap:

Talk to your wife first. Women tend to not like it here. No shopping, clothes, shoes, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, fast food, smooth roads, etc. Pretty much just ocean, beach, palm trees and overpriced homes. Imagine Hawaii during the Great Depression.

[supertek65]

can i bring my playstation?:putergreet:




Talk to your wife first. Women tend to not like it here. No shopping, clothes, shoes, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, fast food, smooth roads, etc. Pretty much just ocean, beach, palm trees and overpriced homes. Imagine Hawaii during the Great Depression.

[ChillerWisperer]

Talk to your wife first. Women tend to not like it here. No shopping, clothes, shoes, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, fast food, smooth roads, etc. Pretty much just ocean, beach, palm trees and overpriced homes. Imagine Hawaii during the Great Depression.

The diving there is killer! I'd give my left nut to live there. Leave the wife at home.

[supertek65]

hey
my left nut is a little fd up from an old football accident!
i could use a new one!!!!!!!:playing:



The diving there is killer! I'd give my left nut to live there. Leave the wife at home.

[man from trane]

The diving there is killer! I'd give my left nut to live there. Leave the wife at home.

Yes, we do have some great dive spots, including "The Wall". It's a 10,000 foot drop. But who has time for it? I'm too busy working. Right now I'm giving work away.

[Randy S.]

Cover thy butt, first and foremost, show the guy the rules.

[man from trane]

Cover thy butt, first and foremost, show the guy the rules.

Absolutely. Where would I find the EPA rules? My book from class is long gone.

[supertek65]

EPA??????
dont they protect animals???



Absolutely. Where would I find the EPA rules? My book from class is long gone.

[Tassajara]

Why not change to water cooled condenser?

[Freezeking2000]

Just did the calcs, Bohn doesn't make a large enough condenser. It's going to have to be for A/C applications.

Or maybe a closed-loop fluid cooler....wouldn't that be impervious to salt air since it's always wet with fresh water? Water consumption could be an issue since we pay 6 cents/gallon.

Get (2) 50 ton bohn condensers and pipe them up!

[supertek65]

expensive water!!!!1:couch:


Why not change to water cooled condenser?

[ChillerWisperer]

Yes, we do have some great dive spots, including "The Wall". It's a 10,000 foot drop. But who has time for it? I'm too busy working. Right now I'm giving work away.

There's always time for diving. I dive after work a lot.

[supertek65]

muff

There's always time for diving. I dive after work a lot.

[man from trane]

Why not change to water cooled condenser?

You missed the part about water costing 6 cents per gallon. How would I calculate water usage? We have 88 degrees DB at 65% RH on a dry day, so maybe there wouldn't be that much evaporation.

[yorkman_gr]

i do remember the York factory in UK had repair kits for licking condenser coils it was a good kit but now JCI has close the factory for some time. In the past i do used this kits and where working very well and is very easy job, i used in YCAJ types of chillers

[cheelr]

I guess I might sell him the cheapest used 100 ton chiller I could find with a comfortable mark-up, a big deposit and an as is warranty. He surely isn't going to do any better.

Here's the EPA page that has the rules and enforcement info, MFT. It's really not that difficult to CYA as a mechanic, basically only add refrigerant to units containing more than 50 lbs when the owner signs a slip saying you just tested the unit leak free. No tickee, no shirtee. There's nothing to say the thing won't spring a new blower leak almost immediately, when it would be completely the owners responsibility to discover it and subsequently fix it within 30 days. Leak tight when I left, that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter what's on the video tape!

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/608fact.html

Oh and I seriously want to be your helper. I am checking out 38-45 foot sailboats coming out of charter service in the BVIs and surrounding areas, they are going pretty cheap. And I never drink on the job like your electrician buddy- I wait until happy hour before pouring some Cruzan Estate over ice. Do you think I could eke out a living down there?

[man from trane]

Of course you could make a living. All you need is a great attitude and the ability to overlook a lot of negative gossip that floats around. If I cam make it here, anyone can. Two years ago I was instructing high school kids about oil refinery process control. Now I don't even know how much money I make- I'm too busy to count it!

[supertek65]

too late!

i called dibbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





I guess I might sell him the cheapest used 100 ton chiller I could find with a comfortable mark-up, a big deposit and an as is warranty. He surely isn't going to do any better.

Here's the EPA page that has the rules and enforcement info, MFT. It's really not that difficult to CYA as a mechanic, basically only add refrigerant to units containing more than 50 lbs when the owner signs a slip saying you just tested the unit leak free. No tickee, no shirtee. There's nothing to say the thing won't spring a new blower leak almost immediately, when it would be completely the owners responsibility to discover it and subsequently fix it within 30 days. Leak tight when I left, that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter what's on the video tape!

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/608fact.html

Oh and I seriously want to be your helper. I am checking out 38-45 foot sailboats coming out of charter service in the BVIs and surrounding areas, they are going pretty cheap. And I never drink on the job like your electrician buddy- I wait until happy hour before pouring some Cruzan Estate over ice. Do you think I could eke out a living down there?

[cperk]

i do remember the York factory in UK had repair kits for licking condenser coils it was a good kit but now JCI has close the factory for some time. In the past i do used this kits and where working very well and is very easy job, i used in YCAJ types of chillers

Yeah, I licked a coil one time, and had to get a tongue repair kit.:LOL:

[pherman]

LOL...I know an electrician who starts drinking Corona at 7:00 am. I'll bet he drinks a case a day.

WOAH! I'd love to see that guys work.:eek2: