Mechanical Engineers

[dave r]

Are there any mechanical engineers that visit this site? I just started my third year/junior year at a university and was thinking about changing my major to mechanical engineering. I haven't done much research on the field yet, so I was hoping some of you could give me some insight on the field.

[hi-tork]

Nah, any that were here weren't for long, they were run off like it was the 'Ponderosa'(they usually had a bad attitude) :D
LMTD gave one a lashing a while back that was quite entertaining...kind of felt bad for him though ;)

[Edited by hi-tork on 10-22-2004 at 09:58 PM]

[cem-bsee]

which univ?
what are your tough courses this yr?

what is your interest after the mech degree?
truthly, you will probably make more as a tradesman unless you get lucky.

However, design engr not too hazardous, unless you fall out of the chair or get killed driving to | from work. & benefits may be better--

good in math? can you take apart an engine & put it back together?

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by hi-tork
Nah, any that were here weren't for long, they were run off like it was the 'Ponderosa'(they usually had a bad attitude) :D
LMTD gave one a lashing a while back that was quite entertaining...kind of felt bad for him though ;)

[Edited by hi-tork on 10-22-2004 at 09:58 PM]

Really?

Bamacracker has about 6000 posts here. A mechanical engineer.

Carnak has over 1200. Another mechanical engineer.

Try posting this in General Discussion, as it will get more exposure. BC hasn't been around much, but Carnak is on this site daily...

[hi-tork]

Originally posted by condenseddave
Really?

Bamacracker has about 6000 posts here. A mechanical engineer.

Carnak has over 1200. Another mechanical engineer.

Try posting this in General Discussion, as it will get more exposure. BC hasn't been around much, but Carnak is on this site daily... [/B]

Sorry, no offense Bama & Carnak, I was thinking more along the lines of this though...
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=52049
guys who swooped in real quick and often swooped right back out...a lot of it is attitude, see, I didn't know about Bama and Carnak, they have good attitudes :D

[condenseddave]

Both good men. Bama is a busy dude, and doesn't get around here much anymore.

The one in the link you listed, well, there's one or two of them a year, and they're mainly here for our personal entertainment,

[engineerguy]

Take something apart, then put it back together. If you look at it and say "I got it together exactly right", then you're cut out to be a technician. If you look at it and say "I could have designed it better", then think engineer.

If you have never taken something apart and put it together, you are probably not cut out to be a technician. You should also rethink going into engineering.

Get a summer job working with your hands. If the thought of going back to classrooms in the fall makes you kind of sick, then keep the job. It should not be a money decision.

[smertz]

I am a Chemical Engineer and if this field is your interest I found my education to be an excellent starting point for developing an understanding of super heat/subcooling fluid mechanics of air and refrigerants and then applying them in a trouble shooting and design manner. Without a doubt I have been humbled (and grown) when applying theory to actual problems.

Money is going to be better for an experienced tech being paid by the hour vs. a salaried engineer working 70 hours/week. You will be far better off adding your education to your experience.

I don't know what Mechanical engineering will teach you past strength of material/statics and dynamics.

Chem E you will get:
Heat Transfer (convection, conduction, radiation)
Fluid Mechanics (duct calculations, friction losses)
Electrical Network theory (that is how three phase works)
Circuits (that solenoid is open)amps, watts, volts
Process Control, (tstats, thermocouples, PID loops)
Unit operations (chillers, cooling towers, filtration, humidification, purification...)

In short, working in this field you are already a huge leg up on your classmates as you have seen all this in application.

Good Luck

[dave r]

Originally posted by engineerguy
Take something apart, then put it back together. If you look at it and say "I got it together exactly right", then you're cut out to be a technician. If you look at it and say "I could have designed it better", then think engineer.

If you have never taken something apart and put it together, you are probably not cut out to be a technician. You should also rethink going into engineering.

Get a summer job working with your hands. If the thought of going back to classrooms in the fall makes you kind of sick, then keep the job. It should not be a money decision.



I have been an HVAC technician for about 5 years now, so I'm not a conventional student. I do get ideas about how it could have been done better or how something could have been designed better to make my life easier. I have wrote down some of these ideas some of which include safety devices and alternative designs for HVAC equipment. I'm chose finance as my major mostly because I was still undecided at the time.

[Edited by dave r on 10-23-2004 at 06:39 PM]

[Carnak]

A guy with hands on and the degree would have no problem getting work.

The hands on sure helped me, I worked for an OEM right out of school. The Cracker was worked for a couple OEMs.

Too bad you are not a tin basher.

[jborden]

Hey

I just graduated with an ME degree. Its a great degree to have because all engineers "spouted" from here. Its hard to do but I love it. I was on a team with a guy that was 48 years old and he is doing it to get his degree this january and he was at the top of the class. I would get the ME degree again in an instant. My favorites classes were thermodynamics, (I took three of those and got A's in all) and then heat transfer. But if you want a ME degree get ahold of me, just reply to this message. I would gladly speak to you about it.

Jon

[pstu]

I think a degree in ME might enable you to make a good career in the field of "Building Science". I believe there are a lot of problems needing to be solved, that are ill-served by traditional trades in that the problem has aspects of two or more trades. A degree in ME plus some experience would allow you to become a serious Mr. Wizard who can pull together a big picture of building needs, including all of HVAC.

Do some Google searching and reading on "Lstiburek" and I think you will find out what I mean. You will find lots of things to study.

Being able to tell people where their energy bill goes, could be worth a lot of money in consulting fees to you. Already there are companies growing profits in the "Energy Services" field, frequently they promise a certain amount of energy savings and claim a proportion of that as their payment. With an ME degree you can be their local expert.
With energy prices seemingly destined to be higher this will be more important, and probably a good concept to base a career on. Oil prices will continue to go up and down, but in my opinion all energy prices will average higher for the next several generations.

Hope this helps -- P. Student

[Edited by perpetual_student on 10-24-2004 at 11:44 AM]

[hockey]

I am a former cubicle-dwelling engineer who got frustrated because I prefer hands-on field work. The current facts are that there is a GREATER need for talented technicians than there are for engineers. Don't believe your college counselors and their statistics. Engineers are considererd "Overhead" (like a tool) by accountants and there is alot of incentive to outsource these jobs (India, Asia, others). A technician who can troubleshoot is more valuable (and has better job security) than ANY engineer.
My experience allows me to offer this advice: If you've completed some college classes, go to a tech school (you can get the basics in HVAC in a 6 month program; no need to go more than that), and become a tech. Continue your education by signing up for one-two day seminars.

[beatnavy89]

Go for the ME degree. AND take the EIT (engineering-in-training) exam!!! Get good experience for 4 years then take your respective Professional Engineer exam. This will open losts of doors for you. It will be tough road and you cannot go wrong. An engineer with "hands-on" experience is a hot commodity. Learn and practice working on teams. Get to know and understand technicians.

I am a Civil Engineer by education but work as a Patent Examiner at the US Patent and Trademark Office in the Electrical Engineering Arts, specifically examing dynamic information storage (disk drives, magnetic heads, etc).

An engineering degree will allow you to approach problems and issues in a systematic way. And with the hands-on experience, you can tackle the most problems. When designing, you will most likely understand what a technician will need or have to go through to provide maintenance. I know lots of engineers who do not know how to replace a simple fuse in their car. Don't be like that.

Good luck and study hard. hahaahaa

[hockey]

Getting back to your question: Since you are entering junior year... I suggest you finish and get your degree. Electrical Engineers are more 'in demand' than mechanical. Many manufacturers feel that a degree isn't necessary for mechanical/assembly work. They are more interested in CAD expertise. Electrical engineers get higher pay and more job offers. If you are planning on entering HVAC field, I would STILL go electrical because of building controls. You can pick up the mechanical portion on your own.
I also agree with the EIT/P.E. license. It will open up many more doors and more money. I passed E.I.T. but never went back for P.E> My biggest career regret.
While I'm giving advice and reflecting...Don't get married!

[beatnavy89]

I totally agree with "hockey". Folks with EE degrees are in high demand. Get controls experience since the way of the future includes software programs running/handling most systems.

NOTE: If you happen to get married--don't marry an engineer. haahaa. It just may end up as a "design problem". Shoot for a lawyer or nurse. Business types will want to "control" your hard earned money. All this is from experience. I am married to a tax attorney which is even better. haahaa. Tax refund checks are a nice thing to receive, especially when they are BIG ones..hahaaa

No matter what decision you make--be flexible and most important--STAY HAPPY. :>)

[zzyzzx]

Originally posted by hockey
The current facts are that there is a GREATER need for talented technicians than there are for engineers. Don't believe your college counselors and their statistics. Engineers are considererd "Overhead" (like a tool) by accountants and there is alot of incentive to outsource these jobs (India, Asia, others). A technician who can troubleshoot is more valuable (and has better job security) than ANY engineer.

I used to be an engineer and I agree with the above statement. All lot of the jobs for engineers moved overseas a long time ago, well before it became popular to do it to programmers.

[zzyzzx]

Originally posted by beatnavy89
Folks with EE degrees are in high demand.

Yeah, in Taiwan and China.

[pstu]

There's a lot to be said for becoming a technician instead of an engineer, too. The job market will not have as drastic highs and lows for a technician, it certainly does for an engineer.

Technician jobs are a lot less exportable than engineering jobs. You might prefer to learn Spanish rather than Chinese Mandarin <g> if you acquire a 2nd language.

You can graduate with a whole lot less debt, can sooner get married if you feel like it, can start your IRA and savings sooner. Because of an earlier start, you just might have a better shot at becoming a millionaire by retirement age (it can be done and isn't that hard in theory).

And sometimes it is possible to gain experience as a technician, then go back to college with a wiser, more mature idea of your goals. But if you support a family that will still be hard.

Tough choices. Best of luck -- P.Student

[hockey]

If you do technician work for awhile then go to engineering school you may see that it's a colassal waste of time. I was in engineering jobs for 20 years and got fed up with dopey bosses, decided I needed a trade. I wouldn't return to cubicles EVER again, and I am making more money and have greater satisfaction with a skill/trade.
Greater satisfaction = priceless!
hockey

[Carnak]

Do what ever makes you happy, just don't blame outsourcing for your life's problem.

More to engineering than sitting in a cubicle. We aren't all Dilberts.

[golf junkie]

I worked in engineering for 12 years before I got myself fired when I told my boss to "piss off" when he wanted me to spend my Easter weekend at work rather than with my family.

I've been working in the trades as an electrician for the past 10 years. I do miss some aspects of engineering but I don't miss the stress and the impossible deadlines.

[MadeinUSA]

There is more to engineering than just sitting in a cubicle designing. Performing consulting work and getting into the sales side of the industry is very challenging and constantly motivating you as well as meeting different people all the time to break the monotony.

I would suggest you get your engineer degree in whatever you want and then get a minor in finance, because if you climb the ladder or ever decide to go into business yourself, either way you will need to know the number side of the business. Cash flow is king, and you will need to understand how all the financials work.

[hockey]

I agree with "Do what makes you happy". I also agree with "Engineering and Finance" comment. My original point is that alot of engineering is now outsourced to India and Asia. MANY of my engineer friends are unemployed as a result. I am lucky because I can do a trade. I am still learning, too. Having been in both careers, I prefer the (apparent) security of the trades. It's a better choice. Times have changed. The advice I got from my parents was, "Get a college education and get a good job in a big company. They'll take care of you (i.e. benefits...)".

[huckmeat]

I'm an ME, (by training, but I do rocket stuff by day). I did lots of calcs for my house, but my HVAC guys know their stuff (Really, my calcs were just to see if I had a ballpark, so I could tell when a prospective contractor was oversizing stuff or guessing.). However, it probably took me 3 weeks to figure out what my (sharp) HVAC guy did in an afternoon.

In a typical ME curriculum, you get:

Materials
Statics (think bridge strength) and Dynamics (think car suspension)
A ton of thermodynamics and heat transfer (5-7 semesters)
Fluid dynamics (laminar, turbulent flows, pressure drop, etc).
You'll get basic electronics, a couple of semesters of chemistry,
a course or two on programming, a lot of really crazy math, a lot of physics.
A couple of courses on controls
A course on instrumentation.

And after all that, you get into the real world, and pretty much just use an off the shelf program or two (depending on the nature of your job) and the right angle trig you learned in high school. And you will probably make more as a tech... That is, until your boss figures out that the guy in India will do your job for 1/10th the pay. :) It happens.

[hockey]

I worked at 6 Engineering jobs that consisted of transitioning work to Asia and India. Alot of the canned programs (heat transfer, thermo, etc) were written in India. I now have friends in those countries. Mexico is now doing drafting work for governement contract jobs. Romania is going to be building jet engines. China already does. China also mass-produces medical devices for the major providers. Castings are overseas and in Canada. Even phone support is in Bombaii.
As the Boston Globe news said: Anything that involves a computer can be shipped overseas. That's why all the new jobs created were in retail and the trades (home building/renovations).
My BSME openeed alot of doors for me, but it's not enough anymore.

[Carnak]

The internet makes the world small.

Computer programming, designing a part etc can easily be done via the internet, so can designing mechanical, plumbing and electrical systems for buildings.

I am down on an island where the cost of living and the cost of doing business is easily double that of Miami. My main competition is 'outsourced' work, done by South Florida Engineering companies WHO are always cheaper than I am. Some architects virtually use these firms exclusively.

But it is difficult to do things from far away, it is almost like trying to solve a HO's heating system problem by what they describe to you over the internet. If a job is really challenging such as a major rennovation or addition to a commercial building, I will pick up the normally outsourced work as it gets too expensive for them to start flying in people multiple times and putting them up in hotels.

I do not make my living picking up the tough crumbs that cannot be outsourced. I have my own customer base as well.

There are a lot of jobs out there that cannot be outsourced and there is a shortage of engineers. You need to get your time in and follow through and get your PE or PEng designation. Use the Dilbert jobs to get your time in. Also remember that when you get your degree, it just gets your foot in the door. 95% of what you need to know will be learned through experience.

Hands on experience and the degree can make you quite valuable. Working the trade can also give you more satisfaction and more pay if you are good. Myself, I got tired of threading gas pipe outside when it was -30C.

Contractors will argue with engineers when there are a problem on the job. I don't see them flying in some one from Punjab or Karachi every time a duct conflicts with a beam.

[hockey]

No, but the local project manager will note the changes and email them to the Draftsman for revision. The "shortage" of engineers has been met via outsourcing. There is no longer a shortage.
The PATs are getting creamed!

[Carnak]

But the Red Sox won, you guys are good for a few season with out the Pats, Sox , Celtics or the BRUINS every winning again.

[du mech eng]

i've read most of these posts and they all make good points. it all depends on what you are looking for. one thing i would like to recommend is try posting this question in an engineering forum as well. this forum is very technician bias, especially the residential section. a lot of the people on here try to make engineers look like dilberts that sit behind a desk all day. i'm sure there are jobs like that in the engineering industry, but working in the hvac industry as a consultant is not one of them. check out http://www.eng-tips.com, they have an hvac engineering section over there, also some sections that deal specifically with career oriented questions rather than technical questions.

[Carnak]

Originally posted by hockey
No, but the local project manager will note the changes and email them to the Draftsman for revision. The "shortage" of engineers has been met via outsourcing. There is no longer a shortage.
The PATs are getting creamed!

The project manager must be an engineer then.

[hockey]

Not necessarily. It could be a foreman with an A.S. degree too.

[Carnak]

Then the original PE who designed it is off the hook. He can't be held liable for the change to his design.

[hockey]

Just like in manufacturing where engineers have been replaced with outsourced talent (proficient in software tools), there may only be one engineer involved in a project now, where there used to be an entire building. The engineering trade began to shrink when the slide rule was replaced with the calculator. This is another example where proficency in a trade is more valuable than a degree. Of course, having both should be even more valuable.
I had a government-contract job where I rounded up and shipped papers, drawings, parts, etc to India and then spoke to them every morning (it was 11 PM there). I was told that for every USA engineer this defense contractor could hire 12 from India.

[Carnak]

Hockey

It sounds like the engineering work you did was not heavily into HVAC or construction.

[hockey]

Yes, That's correct. Like I said, manufacturing. A degree opens the door to many fields. I don't see alot of HVAC engineering jobs on Monster.com or elsewhere. In fact, I am rubbing elbows with unemployed/laid off HVAC engineers.

[Carnak]

I give up then, I guess I am just lucky to have a job.

The ratio of tech jobs to mech engineering jobs at another site not supported by this one was 166 to 37.



[Edited by Carnak on 11-02-2004 at 12:11 PM]

[hockey]

So the ratio speaks for itself. There are alot more technician jobs than engineering jobs.

[Carnak]

Always has and always will be.

[hockey]

Looks like we lost the originator, daver back on page one. Daver, change to EE (they are more valuable (they get more money and better job security). I hope you are going to a good school. My school started with over 300 freshman but I graduated with only 90. Even though I was in the bottom third at graduation I was in the top 1/10 as a frosh!

[ps]

Thought I would add my 2 cents. I'm an ME by education - got involved with HVAC controls right out of school (10 yrs now). My experience is (as far as controls go) - better to be an ME than EE. Better still - someone with trade experience in HVAC, too. Perfect world = HVAC tech w/ engineering degree. Easier to train HVAC guy (understands equipment) than electrician (knows code and how to wire). Almost any engineering degree will give you the basics (heat transfer, control theory, electrical, etc).

BTW - Many controls companies (Siemens, JCI, etc) want BSME grads for technician jobs (startup, commissioning, etc) - installation work subbed to electrical contractor. My advice to thread starter - if you like knowing how/why things work - ME is a good choice. Get your degree and get a job with a controls contractor - you will learn HVAC systems, soup-to-nuts, and job security is high for good controls guys. Trades can be tempting, especially union work, but you may not want to be in the field anymore when you are 50+. Your degree allows for upward mobility once you pay your dues. JMHO.

[supremehvac]

Even if you get a ME degree and have to take a job as a tech for awhile, you will have a bright fucture, just keep your eyes open for oppourtunity, it is out there.

[kim]

I have my ME. It seems like everything we studied in school, there is a canned program to do that job. There still has to be somebody to double check the computer output.

I started in the mechanical trades and could not wait to get out of school to put all that dirty work behind me. I found out that I did not like being a desk jockey either. AutoCAD was ruining my eyes. I got back into HVAC because I was doing closer to what I thought engineers do.

One thing about it. Nobody can ever take your education away from you. If you like fixing things or even breaking things, take an engineering class. You might just be about to find a more fun way to break stuff.


As far as jobs go, I am one of the most employable persons on this board. If one part of the industry heads south, I will be OK. If I mangle my body so I can't get on a roof anymore, I will be OK. I can just step right into a different job. I am looking at several different sides of this field to get into next.

[hockey]

Kim,
Good luck with your job search. I am a BSME, a HVAC Service Tech with Universal and Oil Heat License, AutoCAD ability, manufacturing background, proficient with several computer languages, etc... Its not that easy to get a job.

[BamaCracker]

Originally posted by hockey
I am a former cubicle-dwelling engineer who got frustrated because I prefer hands-on field work. The current facts are that there is a GREATER need for talented technicians than there are for engineers. Don't believe your college counselors and their statistics. Engineers are considererd "Overhead" (like a tool) by accountants and there is alot of incentive to outsource these jobs (India, Asia, others). A technician who can troubleshoot is more valuable (and has better job security) than ANY engineer.
My experience allows me to offer this advice: If you've completed some college classes, go to a tech school (you can get the basics in HVAC in a 6 month program; no need to go more than that), and become a tech. Continue your education by signing up for one-two day seminars.

To this, I cry BULL****!

Having been a service technician for 15 years, and now being an engnieer with almost 4 years experience, and desperately needing to hire 40 degreed engineers right now, I can tell you there is a MUCH greater need for degreed engineers than for competent service techs, and you make TONS more money being an engineer.

[Don Sleeth]

Originally posted by BamaCracker

To this, I cry BULL****!

Having been a service technician for 15 years, and now being an engnieer with almost 4 years experience, and desperately needing to hire 40 degreed engineers right now, I can tell you there is a MUCH greater need for degreed engineers than for competent service techs, and you make TONS more money being an engineer.

Hey, Mr. Cracker! :D Good to hear your voice! :D

don

[simpleman]

Well this is a good day indeed..A blast from the past.
Welcome back Bama.

[Advanced Response]

Welcome back Bama....

Since when did Purina require its dog food testers to have a degree...

Good to see you back..
I remember many of your posts from way back when... You have been gone way to long.. We need your help to clean up these newbies attitudes..

Great to see you post
J

[ps]

Bama - I know FLA is booming but how is it that you could have a need for 40 engineers all of a sudden? Is this a MEP engineering firm or strictly HVAC design? I have plenty of friends up here in Boston who would love a job (any job) in the HVAC engineering field?

BTW - I can't dispute the $ disparity between engineer and tech, although a tech with years seniority can make more than your average engineer - it all depends where you are located and supply/demand. Hours are better for engineers - fact!

[Carnak]

Does it snow there Cracker?

[marauderx]

Originally posted by hockey
Yes, That's correct. Like I said, manufacturing. A degree opens the door to many fields. I don't see alot of HVAC engineering jobs on Monster.com or elsewhere. In fact, I am rubbing elbows with unemployed/laid off HVAC engineers.


Then let us hire them. There are headhunter companies that center around finding and placing MEP engineers. If they were unemployable/laid off, then they must have sucked at engineering. There have been a few that I know that should be kicked out of the profession for sloppy work, little follow up and/or no communication.

Stick with the ME degree. If you do EE you will get better pay but you won't be in the HVAC industry. Those higher paying EE jobs are with companies doing circuit boards and manufacturing, not MEP engineering.

As a Penn State AE with a degree specialized for the industry, I would have to say get your degree, your EIT, then do your 4 years and take the PE exam. That will be the last test you will ever have to take in your life, and it will make you permanently employable.

Avoid the talk about no jobs on 'Monster' or 'Hotjobs' or whatever. MEP design is a niche industry. You are not bound to find the job you want by sifting through the want ads or browsing the internet. What you will start to learn is who the major players are in the USA and beyond, and know the major architecture firms as well. If you stay in one area you will likely hear about and see the same people year to year. When you know this you will learn which companies you want to submit your resume to and which you want to pass on. If you don't know anything about them, an interview will likely tell you want you want to know.

As a side note, I have learned a lot from this site. I deal primarily with the commercial & government design industry, and reading feedback on everything from commissioning to controls has been helpful. Also it helps with the occasional question from an architect on residential, and the people here are a resource to be respected.

[hockey]

Talk is cheap. Contact us and "we'll" send you a resume.
hockey

[junkhound]

Amen to 'Bama's comments.

If your are both a competent technician and a degreed engineer and get in over 30 years experience, $100K a year is on the low end.

There are a lot of 30 year experienced engineers I know that would have no idea how often to change the oil on a vacuum pump -- thus, make only $60k a year - they get to write specifications and push only paper. The 55 YO+ engineers I am acquainted with that know how to hook everything up plus the theory are the $150K/year plus guys that got to design the space station.

[Carnak]

Hockey

Was your out-sourced engineering job HVAC related?

[BamaCracker]

Jobs that I know are begging to be filled in HVAC engineering:

Tampa Florida, design engineering for HVAC company (2 or more)
Aaon, four to six HVAC design engineers
Trane, 17 positions in design engineering across the U.S.


I hope it is OK to post this link, but go to http://www.hvacsearch.com and send them your resume. My friend Gary, who has helped me get every engineering job I ever had, has called me more than once recently telling me he is "dying" for HVAC engineers.

Even more than my last job, I am NOT allowed to admit where I work, so I can't tell you how or why we need 40 degreed engineers, but you can e-mail me and I can tell you, or you can contact Gary at the link above and he can tell you.

$70-120K annually is NOT out of the question. Many companies pay premium wages to an engineer with field experience.

A someone implied, BS walks. Send your resume and Gary will tell you why you got canned, or he'll find you a job.

Carnak, No, it has not snowed here in about 20 years, and then it was less than a measurable amount! Not like the Purina job, where 6 inches at a time was the norm, not the exception, and NEGATIVE digits actually got used on the thermometer!

[BamaCracker]

Originally posted by Don Sleeth
Hey, Mr. Cracker! :D Good to hear your voice! :D

don


It's great to be here. The place has changed a lot, gotten bigger, and changed formats, but still the same cocky upstarts needing to be upbraided here and there, huh?

How's things in the Great White North?

[NormChris]

So Bama, I believe I am now working for a company you once worked for. I think you even called me on the phone once. All is going very well for me and I hope the same is true for you.

Yes, there is a demand for good mechanical engineers who also know HVAC. Former technicians with experience actually troubleshooting and repairing equipment who then go on to obtain an ME degree have the most value.

Norm

[BamaCracker]

Yeah Norm, I saw your boss at ASHRAE, and asked about you. He said you were not there, although every other swinging _ick from your company was there. I told him to tell you I said "Hey!"

I loved working there, I just hated living there. Some of those former co-workers are still my best friends. In fact, if you would go around to the engineering area and find the bald headed guy named "Don" and give him a big hug from me, I'd appreciate it more than you know.

If you like What-A-Burger, they still go on Fridays, from what I hear. Wish I could be there with them.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by BamaCracker
Yeah Norm, I saw your boss at ASHRAE, and asked about you. He said you were not there, although every other swinging _ick from your company was there. I told him to tell you I said "Hey!"

I loved working there, I just hated living there. Some of those former co-workers are still my best friends. In fact, if you would go around to the engineering area and find the bald headed guy named "Don" and give him a big hug from me, I'd appreciate it more than you know.

If you like What-A-Burger, they still go on Fridays, from what I hear. Wish I could be there with them.


As much as I respect Don and the others I am not about to give hugs to any of them. Jack is a great guy to work for by the way. We have a great team here! Lots of cooperation.

Not aware of What A Burger. Where is that? I'll give it a try.

[hockey]

Thanks for the info. I got downsized from defense work, medical devices, and semiconductors (all manufacturing, all outsourced). I left 2 jobs due to integrity issues.

[maxair]

My boss is a electrical engineer.He runs the company his
dad started.He graduated top of his class so asked him
why didnt he pursue being an engineer full time?He gave
me a couple of simple answers he could be boss at the
shop stay in his home town but most of all he said that
he took trip to India been about 12 years ago and
was realy shocked with the unreal amount of ready to work
labor plus a social system that lets them work people all
hours for no money.He says that 10 -15 years from now nearly all engineering will be overseas.What do you think?
I got a nephew thinking engineer he is 17.Im thinking maybe not so good an idea as it used to be.

[hockey]

Max,
I think it depends on the discipline and the area of the country for your nephew. Engineers used to design with slide rules, then calculators. Now "canned" programs do all the design work. ALL manufacturers are going overseas for design (India) and cheap labor (S.E. Asia). Even military components are being made in Mexico, China (yes, Communist China), and elsewhere. Software is dead. Manufacturing is going elsewhere. Civil Engineering is slow.
By the way, I heard the same great advice about teaching (Math & science) as I did about engineering. I have BOTH credentials. Today's REAL technical need is in medical (nursing, etc.). I see that first-hand.
If you guys have read this far, New England is a little slow right now for HVAC engineers.
Where is your nephew, Max?
hockey

[Carnak]

I can see your sore spot hockey, but the bad taste in your mouth against engineering is not really hvac or construction based and you are only talking from an EIT point of view and not as a disgruntled PE.

So as long as there is construction there is a need.

If it is slow for HVAC engineers in NE right now then construction must be slowing down.

[hockey]

You are correct, Carnak. In fact, there's alot of vacant commercial property right now (in Boston). As far as jobs go, my philosophy has always been, "Apply where they are hiring." I will always have my BSME, my technician credentials and my teaching certification. That should be enough, huh? How about someone who is 17? What would be prudent advice for him? I certainly wouldn't recommend NASA, computer science, or retail. But I would recommend learning a trade while pursuing something else. It still depends on your location. Manufacturing is better in the south than the north. Here, medical and banking seem to be "in".

[Carnak]

With your BSME and your tech experience you already know that you are a natural to work for an HVAC OEM.

"Apply where they are hiring" will keep you fed and if you like the work all the better.

I think you are successful if you can earn a living doing something you like doing.

A 17 year old kid, hmmmm would do him a world of good to go out in the world and work for a living to see what it is like. Nothing wrong whatsoever with trades, I started in sheet metal.

I think a young kid out in the work force for a while would make a better college student than one straight from high school.

There is a thriving financial industry here, and what seems to be in demand is IT Guys.

But as long as there is construction there will be a demand for engineers.

[ps]

Another field that is currently "hot" right now is energy and commissioning. A BSME with some trade experience could find this very rewarding - and although this field has been cyclical in the past, owners and facility managers are beginning to come around. With energy costs going no where but up - people are starting to realize that reducing costs associated with energy consumption is one of the most effective ways of saving $ and improving processes, comfort, etc. Best thing is that ALL industrys and property owners have the need for these services. Have your nephew check it out.