What the?

[infwsdm]

I’m stunned, I cannot even believe it happened, but it did!

Have you ever had the daughter of an elderly lady call you at 8:30 on a Wednesday evening and tell you that you are a liar?

And have you ever had the husband of this said daughter ask you point blank if you performed a particular procedure? and when you answer in the affirmative and explain, he immediately says he is an engineer and could tell 'if a burner assembly has been taken out of the furnace blah, blah' [Coleman MH furnace 13 years old].

I have!
Tonight I was under attack!

I wasted my time explaining heat exchangers and furnaces for him to come back and call me a liar. (he first asked “how did you inspect the heat exchanger?”)

This one's a walker!

I mean have you ever felt like you were talking to the dumbest people in the world?

I thought I could talk to the husband but he was dumber than the daughter.
I had to finally tell him that I was going to talk to [the mother] and the park manager in the morning and inform them both on the condition of the furnace (because these idiots didn’t believe there was anything wrong with the furnace), and I don’t want to ever see or hear from you again! Hand wipe!!


Perspective: Retirement manufactured home park in town, age range 55 and up, and there are many in the ups. I do 80% of work for the residents and the 100% for management.
The mother is, I’m guessing in her eighties. She called me to have her furnace checked; she seemed like a nice lady. Bad heat exchanger, 13 year old Coleman. Explained to her about fix or replace and she said; “just replace it”. Ok fine, good decision.

[Senior Tech]

Been thru this...morons thought we were trying to steal from their mother, no, I told them, were trying to save her life! After 3 visits, 3 techs, the mother finally put her daughter in her place and said your not inheriting the money, I'm spending it on a furnace! Mother still loves us, daughter on the other hand probably doesn't...

[otto]

A hazard of the trade. Some people see a 60 Minutes episode and think all contractors are CONtractors. There is probably nothing you can say to convince them other than going out and showing the damage to them first hand. Then they'll probably say it's not damaged that bad!

[mattm]

The kids are trying to get rid of her and you ruined it. Sounds like the makings of one of those comedies where they keep trying to kill somebody off but destiny wont let it happen.

Like "Lets throw momma from a train"

[R12rules]

Wisdom, ya do your best and that's about all you can do for these types of people.
They are just not reasonable!

They dont recognise the truth when it confronts them face to face!


I meet folks like that alot.

[sysint]

Tell the stinkin' guy you are going to fill out a police report as your'e serious.

Tell him you think it's very suspicious that he would deny a cracked heat-x on his own mother's furnace. Did he get a second opinion? If so, then you bear no liability.

See what he says after that.

[Diceman]

Forget the park manager, call the park ranger, he knows how to handle Yogi........probably stealing picnic baskets again too.

After the initial anger wears off, forget it and move on.
Think if you were that couples kid, how bad would that suck?
We have all had stuff like that happen.
By the way, doncha just love engineers????

[htg guy]

Did he mention he was a sanitation engineer?

I hope you disabled the furnace before you left.
The guys an ass! I would still expect payment! Tell him to get a second opinion and then call you to apoligize.

I'm not an engineer, do you think he can explain the procedure for telling when a burner has been removed so that we can all learn.

[infwsdm]

That phone call definately caught me off guard.

About 45 minutes earlier I had to get 'firm' with another customer who is a realitor and is building his own house. I have done other work for him before. Anyway the job started last february, I have been done with my end except for registers, grills and stat for a while now. He supplied the furnace and all I did was the ductwork.

The gas meter bracket was just recently put on so I hook up the gas pipe so consumers energy can put on the gas meter. I put up with changes and all that.

He called to get the furnace fired up so his mud can dry for the drywall. I told him I would be out friday afternoon and for him to bring his checkbook. (for the third time)

He gives me the line about his policy not to pay unitil the job is inspected. I told him it is my policy to get paid when I do work and my end has been done and I can call the inspector tomorrow, just make sure your drywall is up so I can install the registers and grills.

Then I went on to tell him how I have done work for him in the past and that this can only be one of two things, either you don't trust me or you are being a tight ass, and if you don't trust me then you can't trust anybody!

So he kinda put his tail between his legs and we'll see what happens on friday.

Then I get the phone call from hell 45 minutes later from a broad questioning my integrity.

Then come to find out there was an article in the local rag about a paving company being under investigation for taking advantage of senior citizens. And I learned that the daughter was at a church meeting where all the members were disscussing such things because of the article and furnace guys came up.

Then she goes to visit momma.

It was a no win situation from the start

ya see how circumstances bring stuff about?

[davidr]

We can all thank the media for fueling this type of nonsense by stereotyping all of us together with hacks

Wis, sorry you had such a crappy day.

[Diceman]

It ain't the media. There are loads of companies who drum up work in such a manner, like air time 500, air serve and etc.
Anyway, now ya know why beer is our favorite pastime.
At the next convention we will discuss handling such a-hole customers........don't miss it.

[swat]

I know this situation. Been there a time or 2. I would get a buddy who had a company and see if he could do a 2nd opinion and you buy him a steak later or something.

[midhvac]

I've been running into bad heat exchangers almost every day this week. One lady asked me if I could put tape over the crack.

Gave the last rights to a 1960 Carrier 300,000 btu overhead heater in an auto repair shop today. Heat exchanger rotted out.

He said they had an identical one like it there before, but the heat exchangers rotted out on it, so they removed an identical unit from across the shop and put it in the other ones place, and so now that one is rotted out too. Can you imagine that???

[i_got_ideas]

I know what you mean. I have a court date for a duma$$ customer in January. I put a furnace in his rental property and he never paid, never paid. Finally(5 months later) I get this nasty letter from him that he is never going to pay! WTF!

He says I am responsible for all this water damage to his house. Says he ran out of LP in his tank and the new furnace wouldn't come on after he had it filled....yeah, it was in lockout after 3 failed tries to light. Since he had the tank filled and left without bothering to see if the furnace fired up the pipes froze and burst that night. Who's damn responsibility is it to watch the tank so he don't run out.....NOT MINE!!!!

So, after I'm done he's going to be paying for his water damage, the installation, AND my legal fees. He said if I win he'll just call the BBB. Fine, do it I told him, I don't give a s**t, you're an ass. He then said he'll never call us again, GOOD I thought :D .

Some people :rolleyes:

[Diceman]

Like if he did call you again you would actually go through all that again? Wow he is a classic, get one of his phone calls on your answering machine and send it to me, we all need to hear this guy....:D

[infwsdm]

So today was supposed to be the install. I informed the park manager I would be stopping by the 'mothers' home to give the check back (she paid in full).

When I get there, another heating guy is getting ready to go in, we chatted for a minute and I asked him if he minded that I came in and watched. He didn't mind at all. We both got to the door at the same time where the 'mother' opened the door and I told her I was here to return the check she wrote and if she minded that I come in and watch the inspection.

Of course he found exactly what I found (and documented). We chatted for a minute, and he said her son was coming to meet him. I commented that I hope it's not the same guy I talked to on the phone and then I was on my way out.

As I was at the door saying goodbye to the 'mother', the son walks in and starts attacking me in the same tone as the daughter did. I told him I was hear returning a check and that I was just leaving.

He kept at me with this tone and threatening me that he called the state and was going to get my license 'revoked' and that I was 'toast' and to never come on this property again or he would put me in jail.

Although I wanted to break his jaw, I refrained. I told him "I came here to return a check and you will not talk to me like that and you better watch yourself"

I left and went and did a maintenance call (to calm down, the HO wasn't home and left the door open for me).

Then I went to the main office and talked to the manager about what happened. The manager went to the home and had words with the 'son' (who, incedently is a relative of the manager). I was happy that the manager stuck up for me.

Now, the guy who lives across the street of the 'mother'(we checked his furnace a month ago) called the manager and now he is questioning what we had to say about his furnace. So the manager told him he would arrange with me for all of us to be there to 're-inspect' his furnace.

At this point, that guy can kiss my ass too!

[midhvac]

Once in a while I run into a customer from hell, but after reading your post, I feel truly fortunate to have never entered THE PARK FROM HELL.

You should've just gone through the park, knocked on every door and broke all of their jaws.

They'd all be walking around with their jaws wired shut telling the next hvac co:

"Aw, I don't know what happened. The last hvac man went postal on us!!"

[Edited by midhvac on 10-22-2004 at 10:19 PM]

[infwsdm]

Well, I'm on my third beer. All I need is 12 more and a valum and I'll be fine:D

[The Penguin]

must have been Sunny vale trailer park! :D

[TB]

I got tired of being second guessed all the time too, so I started showing them the problem. Found a gas valve leaking gas through the on - off - pilot manual valve, so I called the customer over and lit it right in front of him. He jumped back and stammerd, " you better change that I guess huh?" They're allways glad you find a problem when it don't work, but if its just a PM call, they can't believe you found aa problem. Go figger, why did they call me out then?

[infwsdm]

I usually show them too. Some of the older people 'don't bend like they used to' or 'see like they used to' for that matter.

I'm going to start taking pictures though. I just dusted off my digital camera;)

[midhvac]

Did a p.m. yesterday on a Lennox standing pilot furnace. Brand new shiny flue pipe with an 8' section of flue going downhill before going into the masonry chimney. Before firing it up, I showed it to the ho and told him he was eating flue gases. Then when I fired it up, it drafted beautifully :D

So I'm like WTF??? Then I went outside and saw the 35' tall chimney. That draft would suck a bird *out* of the chimney!!

[Diceman]

That pipe still has to go uphill.
So Infsw, you were right.......I mean they do need a new furnace, so now what does Yogi have to say????

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by Diceman
That pipe still has to go uphill.
So Infsw, you were right.......I mean they do need a new furnace, so now what does Yogi have to say????


'Yogi' told me that the son said that the other heating guy said that "yes, what I found was true" (at first they did not want to believe it and would not afford me the oportunity to show them). Then the son went on to say that there is no carbon monoxide so the furnace (or heat exchanger)is fine and doesn't need to be replaced. (we'll don't we want to 'fix' the 'issue' BEFORE carbon monoxide enters the picture?)

Now if the other heating dude actually told him that, I question his judgement. However, the son is a complete idiot so I think his interpretation is off.

Yogi really can't do anything besides telling them the situation and to get a second or third opinion.

However, it turns out that Yogi's soon to be ex-wife is a cousin of this family and Yogi has known these people for 25 years.

Yogi also told him that he (the son) better not come in here (the park) and treat his contractors that way and better not slam (my) reputation.

After hearing about the "I would just leave it" comment. I called the manufacturers tech rep and asked him what is the course of action that needs to take place. He told me exactly what I told the customer.

I am sooo happy I am right 'cuz that is the only thing I have going for me in this situation (besides yogi sticking up for me which I really appreciate)

So, since I was threatend, had the 'state' called on me, been called a liar, they want to 'sue' me an article in the paper about the elderly being taken advantage of, and the kids of this lady doing nothing (apparently) to resolve the furnace issue. I feel I should write a letter explaining the problem and the course of action that needs to take place, withe the phone number to the manufacturers rep. Then send a copy to the 'mother' the mechanical inspector, and the state mechanical division. That way I am not liable for anything and can wipe my hands of this fricken mess.

That is unless they want to spred rumors, then I will file suit against them.
I'm going to call a lawyer on Monday for advice

What would you do?

[infwsdm]

BTW, when I asked the other heating dude what action would he suggest he said: "Well, they need to think about doing something"

[Diceman]

I would forget about it and move on. Time has a way of getting even with people, justice will prevail in the end.
You explained it to everyone involved, you have enough witnesses in case. I learned a long time ago that very often if ya pursue things like this it tends to bring you down and eat you up......and quite frankly, those a-holes just ain't worth that are they?
Just keep keeping on and let the rest take care of itself.

[Chad711]

Lmao. Who here HASNT been in your shoes. Every year I find at least one like this. Usually it is with BiCap, the state fund that pays for all the work. For some reason, IMO, the people that get stuff for free are worse?

Oh well, like Dice said just be happy they arent in YOUR family :()

[Edited by Chad711 on 10-23-2004 at 12:22 PM]

[infwsdm]

not worth it at all.

except for the positive (learning experience that will make me 'stronger and wiser') that will come out of it.

[hi-tork]

Originally posted by Diceman
I would forget about it and move on. Time has a way of getting even with people, justice will prevail in the end.
You explained it to everyone involved, you have enough witnesses in case. I learned a long time ago that very often if ya pursue things like this it tends to bring you down and eat you up......and quite frankly, those a-holes just ain't worth that are they?
Just keep keeping on and let the rest take care of itself.

Brilliantly stated...
So if they call you back with their tails between their legs and want you to change it afterall, what are you gonna do? :D

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by hi-tork

Originally posted by Diceman
I would forget about it and move on. Time has a way of getting even with people, justice will prevail in the end.
You explained it to everyone involved, you have enough witnesses in case. I learned a long time ago that very often if ya pursue things like this it tends to bring you down and eat you up......and quite frankly, those a-holes just ain't worth that are they?
Just keep keeping on and let the rest take care of itself.

Brilliantly stated...
So if they call you back with their tails between their legs and want you to change it afterall, what are you gonna do? :D

That'll never happen. They couldn't pay me enough.

[Diceman]

About 12 years ago I was refereeing a kids soccer game. I used to coach and was a certified ref for many years, no pay just to help the local organization mind you.
So this other coach who has a rep for being a cry baby and arguing calls, one of them guys who is OK till he gets on the sideline and then he changes into Frankenstein. And I seen plenty of them around. So his team is winning at first and all is well, but he coached them to be kinda nasty and I started making calls, very blatent stuff cause usually my motto was let em play. His team eventually loses and going off the field he makes a remark to them that the ref cost them the game......hmmmmmm I hear it and he probably wanted me to and I turned around and said "What??????" A rather rowdy argument ensues as I ain't taking crap off this jerk, pretty loud too. At one point I look over and see all the kids and parents looking at us.....and ya know what..... I look as bad as the jagoff coach. For all they know I am an a-hole too. I felt embarrassed.From that day on I never did that again. In time everyone in the league, a big league well run for many years I might add, talked and knew about this other guy and what a jerk he was on the field.
Enough said.

[Diceman]

And don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If the mom calls you, not the kid, change her furnace.
For all you know she don't like him much either.....:D

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by Diceman
About 12 years ago I was refereeing a <a href="kids%20soccer" onmouseover="window.status='kids soccer'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">kids soccer</a> game. I used to coach and was a certified ref for many years, no pay just to help the local organization mind you.
So this other coach who has a rep for being a cry baby and arguing calls, one of them guys who is OK till he gets on the sideline and then he changes into Frankenstein. And I seen plenty of them around. So his team is winning at first and all is well, but he coached them to be kinda nasty and I started making calls, very blatent stuff cause usually my motto was let em play. His team eventually loses and going off the field he makes a remark to them that the ref cost them the game......hmmmmmm I hear it and he probably wanted me to and I turned around and said "What??????" A rather rowdy argument ensues as I ain't taking crap off this jerk, pretty loud too. At one point I look over and see all the kids and parents looking at us.....and ya know what..... I look as bad as the jagoff coach. For all they know I am an a-hole too. I felt embarrassed.From that day on I never did that again. In time everyone in the league, a big league well run for many years I might add, talked and knew about this other guy and what a jerk he was on the field.
Enough said.

you know the old adage: Never argue with a fool, on lookers will not know the difference.;)

[hi-tork]

Originally posted by Diceman
And don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If the mom calls you, not the kid, change her furnace.
For all you know she don't like him much either.....:D

Ha Ha LOL my thoughts exactly...
Dice, when is your book coming out? :D

[hi-tork]

Originally posted by infwsdm
you know the old adage: Never argue with a fool, on lookers will not know the difference.;) [/B]

And kudos to you Infwsdm, it takes a big man to walk away like you did; shows a lot of self-control and insight as to your your character (sniffle) :D
Remember that "deep thoughts" skit on SNL? "It takes a big man to cry....It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man"...
:D

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by Diceman
Like if he did call you again you would actually go through all that again? Wow he is a classic, get one of his phone calls on your answering machine and send it to me, we all need to hear this guy....:D

LOL. You're really fishing for soundbites for askeddie dot com, now.:p

I think it's an excellent idea, but you're gonna need more bandwidth if igi and inf both start their recorders.:D

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by hi-tork

Originally posted by Diceman
And don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If the mom calls you, not the kid, change her furnace.
For all you know she don't like him much either.....:D

Ha Ha LOL my thoughts exactly...
Dice, when is your book coming out? :D

I'll third that emotion.

She, like many other people, probably just wants to be cozy and safe, and doesn't give a sh!t about politics and causing trouble. She would probably rather have a new furnace, and sleep soundly, knowing that everything is OK, but her idiotic know-it-all son-in-law would much rather save a buck and swing his miniscule little genitalia around to show how much he thinks he knows.

Take care of her, ignore him.

Good thing the management trusts you and has a sack.;)

[midhvac]

Ahhh, you're just jealous because the old woman has a 100% efficient furnace :D

[Diceman]

Originally posted by midhvac
Ahhh, you're just jealous because the old woman has a 100% efficient furnace :D

Don't be trying to steal my innovative design, my final drawing is going out Monday to the patent office.

[TB]

.

[Edited by TB on 10-24-2004 at 04:51 AM]

[TB]

Originally posted by infwsdm
I feel I should write a letter explaining the problem and the course of action that needs to take place, withe the phone number to the manufacturers rep. Then send a copy to the 'mother' the mechanical inspector, and the state mechanical division. That way I am not liable for anything and can wipe my hands of this fricken mess.


What would you do? [/B]

Cc. the letter to the fire marshall, and the newspaper / "letters to the editor" , with a thank you for all their help

...and keep a copy on file




[Edited by TB on 10-24-2004 at 05:07 AM]

[TB]

Originally posted by midhvac
Did a p.m. yesterday on a Lennox standing pilot furnace. Brand new shiny flue pipe with an 8' section of flue going downhill before going into the masonry chimney.


So whats gonna happen on a cold day, with an inversion?

I don't know how much of that stack is exposed to outside air temp, but outside chimneys exposed tend to backdraft into the house when they cool below indoor temp, or any other reason a neg. pressure inside might be developed. If its 'brand new shiney' it makes me wonder if its been condensating or something.

[Edited by TB on 10-24-2004 at 05:11 AM]

[infwsdm]

Ok.

Remember the guy that lives accross the street from the 'mother'?

Well I went there today with the park manager and showed them both the damage to his furnace, which is in worse condition than the 'mothers'.

Turns out he had another heating guy (who I've run into at the supply house on occasion. Well, the other heating guy who we will call Fred, because that's his name, told the HO that there was nothing wrong with the furnace.

He didn't even take the burner out to look. I can't wait until I see him again. Boy is he gonna get an ear full.

I have had to clean up some of his messes before too. He is a hack.

But now that I proved them all wrong they all can still kiss my a$$!

We'll see if the rumors stop.

[Diceman]

Tell the park ranger leave yogi and boo-boo alone.
I need a shipping address for your new units.

[tech]

To eliminate this situauion we have developed a kit that has a vcr and a wand type camera that we use to videotape the hole or crack along with the model and serial number. We leave the tape with the customer(cheap 3 minute kind). Since we started doing this customers have gotten a lot less on the defensive and have no doubt we are being honest. Sales have increased big time!

[frozensolid]

Originally posted by tech
To eliminate this situauion we have developed a kit that has a vcr and a wand type camera that we use to videotape the hole or crack along with the model and serial number. We leave the tape with the customer(cheap 3 minute kind). Since we started doing this customers have gotten a lot less on the defensive and have no doubt we are being honest. Sales have increased big time!

This a good Idea.

Infinite there are a lot of guys out there, with no itegrity at all. This is why they question you, they don't know you.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by tech
To eliminate this situauion we have developed a kit that has a vcr and a wand type camera that we use to videotape the hole or crack along with the model and <a href="serial%20number" onmouseover="window.status='serial number'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">serial number</a>. We leave the tape with the customer(cheap 3 minute kind). Since we started doing this customers have gotten a lot less on the defensive and have no doubt we are being honest. Sales have increased big time!

That's one of my new plans for these situations. I already have the equipment to do it. All I have to do is dust it off.

I need to get some of those 3 min tapes though.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by Diceman
Tell the park ranger leave yogi and boo-boo alone.
I need a shipping address for your new units.

ohh, the truck is in transit. I still need those units for the 'mothers' kids!

[Diceman]

I just finished painting them, you can hardly notice the brush marks.