Basic Tools?

[snevois]

I'm a recent HVAC/R student graduate looking for a job. I have the basic tools I think I need: multi meter, clamp meter, swedging set, some nut drivers, small wrench set, basically small hand tools. My question is should I start investing in more tools and if so what would be the priority?
I really have my eye on a Turbo Torch start up kit.

Thanks for any help or wisdom!

[mdp]

Depends on what end of the trade you're planning on getting into, i.e. residential/commercial/refrigeration. Once you make that decision, union, non union, mom & pop shop, large corporation. We're a large corporation union shop, you provide the basic hand tools and we provide all the specialty stuff, meters, torches, drills, recovery machines and the like. A GOOD manifold set is always a wise choice regardless where you go.

[snevois]

OK, I've gauges too. Service wrench, allen wrenches, left, right and straight tin snips (aviaters). Learning material; I have the "big Blue book" lol, J manual and calculator, Boiler book, and duct calculator.
As far as the industry goes, I'm open, even willing to relocate. I figure I'll end up starting out in residential though.
As far has the Turbo Torch goes, I can get the start up for about $160, I like the idea of just lugging one tank around instead of the oxy/acetylene. I'm just wondering what you guys prefer?

[thehumid1]

Iprefer the one tank but there are times I wish I had the oxy/acetylene set up but overall i thing the trade off is worth it.

[dec]

I started out with a turbo-torch years ago, not the way to go,at least I dont think so.After using it for 2- 3 years and seeing others using a small oxy- accet outfit I broke down and bought one. No comparison, for what your going to pay put your money towards oxy-accet outfit,there are a lot more uses for it then turbo-torch unless your more into being a plumber

[boat racer]

Anything more than the basic tools is a question that depends on what you are doing and who you will work for as others have suggested. Many shops provide all the bigger more expensive tools.


A Turbo Torch is an OK (maybe even excellent) tool if you are doing installation, but for service, esp commercial refirgeration or AC you really need to lug both tanks. Oxy-acetylene is much more versital, having only the Turbo limits what you can do.

The first big tool I would buy after the basic hand tools is a vacuum pump. Next would be a micron gage. Then I would get a second gage set.

As far as starting out in residential, I'd reccommend against it. I think you will learn more and understand better if you do commercial refrigeration first. Most of the really good lead techs I know say that is what they started on and liked the most even if they ended up doing something else (usually for more money).

[The Penguin]

Wait till you get a job then buy the tools.
1 set of gauges will work for you regardless of commercial or resid so get gauges first.

then see what your employer supplies then fill in the holes as needed when you can afford to

[snevois]

Job market here is a bit tight. Everyone wants experience but if you are lucky enough to get hired on, you start out as a residential installer helper. Most other jobs here are for apartment maintenance.
By the way great website. I found it about a year ago and really enjoy the "Wall of Shame". It's a great learning tool. As I progressed through school I started understanding more and more what you guys are talking about.

Thanks

[R12rules]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=47442

Check this out before you buy anything. And do NOT buy anything big. A shop will provide that.

[R12rules]

I'm a fasterner man myself. I pride myself on being able to gain acess to any panel, any where at any time.

Most of your initial visits to a service call will involve troubleshooting what is wrong with the system.

This involves opening up a panel or two and seeing what is taking place.

The rule of thumb is it should take about twenty minutes to perform the initial diagnosis. So the tools you bring with you into the job are going to enable you to perform that first twenty minutes of work.
Those are your most crucial moments on any job.
These will either make you or break you.

Own and use the tools which will make you shine and be a hero!

Dont buy junk!

[R12rules]

Since 60% of service calls are electrical, you will need good meters in order to work with electrical measurements.
I recomend a Fluke 16 and a small digital clamp on amp meter.

The purchase of a clamp on thermometer probe is a worthy investment.

Do a search of this site and you will find the topic widely discussed.
Unless of course, you have money to burn. If you do, simply ignore the thread and purchase the Fluke pipe clamp probe. You cannot go wrong buying Fluke.

[R12rules]

Considering a single pair of Knipex lock joint pliers cost $30, you can see how a weighty tool bag can take hundreds of dollars from your wallet. In very short order!

United sells a brand of lock joint pliers which are as good as and maybe even superior to the Knipex button type lock join plier.
The pliers have a lever which you depress in order to adjust them.
Some guys may prefer the Channel lock style of adjustment ... no buttons or levers to mess with ...

They simply do NOT know what they are missing out on! :)




Another thing of personbal preferance is your gages.
What I use most if simply a simple set of gages. They have soft hoses five or six feet long.
This works out nice for medium to large systems.
For small appliances though, they hold a bit too much freon to my liking. So for small work, I prefer to use short hoses.
Then with evacuation work, sealed system service, I like to have heavy duty hoses and a four valve manifold. Brute or Imperial have served me well over the years. I have both.

None of my hoses have their valve core depressors inside the ends! They are removed imediately!

Anyone who attaches his gage manifold set using standard hoses, without blow back prevention devices, is making a mess and allowing freon to be wasted which upsets the charge in critical chrage systems!

A blow back device costs about eight dollars and they last for years.
I met a guy at the supply house one day and he chose to argue with me about how they fail so easily.

He sounded so good with hiw debate. Only trouble was, he was wrong.
I felt sorry for the poor guy and left him alone.

If a young guy wont listen to advice, ....he simply will not learn new things!

I use the brass screw on valves for blow back prevention plus I carry a tiny tool C&D makes for the purpose of depressing the schrader valve core.
These tools are worth their weight in gold! Just be sure to release the pressure at the hose end, before unscrewing them from the system. Otherwise the o-ring dissapears ...... bummer!


Always bleed your hi side over into your low side before disconnecting your gages.


If you would like the list I compiled form the tool bag post ... just let me know.

[snevois]

I'll take the tool list, if you want, email me at [site rules - no email addresses]
I do have a Fluke 16 multi meter with the temp probe, and a Fluke 322 clamp meter. My gauges are Yellow Jacket with 3 foot hoses. Regular channel locks, lineman pliers and needlenose pliers.
I think school set me up pretty good. Now I just got to get into the trade. I'll definately hand around this site because I really do learn from it.
Thanks again and send me the tool list and any other info you have, I appreciate it.

[Edited by BC1 on 10-21-2004 at 03:55 PM]

[R12rules]

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?postid=615702#post615702

Here's the link. It saves me copy and pasting all that I just wrote.


If your doing commercial refrig, as some here have recomended you begin your OJT ... you will want what is listed there.
Although yo may choose, in short order, to break this down into at least two bags.

One which will enable you to effeciently/ thuroughly troubleshoot a system and the other bag or bags ... to enable you to fix whats broken.
Usually .. that will mean changing parts. But sometimes it means sealed system work.

In my head, I can see a guy having one bag for the diagnosis.
The next one would be to enable him, or her, to change whatever electro-mechanical devices which are in need of replacement.
Then whatever has been left on the service truck would be for the purpose of dealing with the sealed system.

KISS. Keep it simple!


Your gages are like the doctor's stethescope. They go with the doctor wherever they go.
Next thing a medical professional does in diagnosing a patient is taking the vital signs. They take the pulse. Here is where your amp meter and multi meter come in.
Next the medical person will take the patient's temperature. And we are no different in this regard. We must find out what the temp is in order to diagnose what the system is doing RIGHT as well as WRONG.

[hvac student_4063]

Something to think about is how many trips you want to make to/from your truck once you are in the customers house. Here's what I carry when I leave the truck.

The first thing is a Stanley 6-in-1 tool. It's cheap ($3.49), so it's not a big deal if you lose or mangle it. It gives you a 1/4 and 5/16 nut driver as well as small and large phillips and straight screwdriver bits. That one tool gets me access to about 95% of where I need to be for initial diagnosis.

I also take my meter with me, and I carry 2 jumper wires with me in the case. I also carry a good flashlight, my cell phone and pager. Fortunately for me, there are several more senior guys who are just a phone call away...but don't call unless you're prepared to answer a lot of detailed questions.

I also think Carpenter pants are a great idea. I carry my cell phone in the left leg pocket, my 6-in-1 tool in one right leg pocket and whatever else in the other pockets.

These things have worked for me...your mileage may vary. Good luck!

[snevois]

The bag I have is a BucketBoss. I really like it with all the outside pockets but it is rather large. I keep my tinning tools in a seperate smaller bag. I like the carpenters pants idea especially because I usually end up putting my tools in my pocket any way (including my scribe, ouch). I don't think I could use a bucket because of the temptation of sitting on it and I don't think that would look good to a customer.

By the way, Go Cards!

[bmf]

Originally posted by R12rules
I'm a fasterner man myself. I pride myself on being able to gain acess to any panel, any where at any time.



im in that boat man i have some nice tools to get to what i need to look at quickly

i even have some of those craftsman bits that take out stripped head skeewrs

they've saved my ass more then a few times

[sline-dawg]

You're tool buying has just begun.... you can't do the work without the right tool.

[frozensolid]

I bring my pouch slung on my shoulder, and a manifold set in my hand. Most of the time, I will need to make at least one trip to my truck for parts. If there are any additional tools necessary, I will throw them in an empty tool bag with the parts, and off I go. If you only make one trip to the truck, your thinking, thinking is good.

It may take more than one trip if, your changing a thirty horse semi-hermetic, though.:)

[R12rules]

Forget the torch.
The vac pump, recovery unit with tanks ... PLURAL.
Dont buy ladders or garden hoses or fire extinguishers or first aid kits.


Knee pads? Yes
Safety glasses? Yes
Gloves? Yes
Tool bags? Yes
Socket set; 1/4" & 3/8"? Yes
All sorts of pliers? Yes
All sorts of screw drivers? Yes
Wide Opening spanner wrenches? Yes
Gages? Yes
The brass adapters for your hoses? Yes
PDA? Yes

Buy the book entitled; "How to win friends and influence people".
Read the stories here about safety.
Read the posts here dealing with teamwork.
Look over the threads here for tips on making the most of your carreer.


And when they put you in a truck, watch your speed! Your driving record follows you for years! And a good employer wont put up with a bad driving record.

Your not doing anybody any good by speeding to your next call!

[davidr]

snevois,
you posted Go Cards,are you in the St.Louis or Louisville area?
If in Louisville I may be able to help get you hooked up for some interviews.

[boat racer]

Ah, yes. Saftey tools.

Add this to your list, your boss probably doesn't even know about them yet:

A pair of Kevlar cut resistant gloves. Wear them anytime you have sheetmetal apart or are handling a knife or razor. $12 saves a lot of trips to the emergency room or just back to the truck for a Bandaid.

How many customers are going to have faith in a tech who can't even avoid injuring him/herself?

[R12rules]

Safety is truly an overlooked facet of this trade!
Boat mentioned Kevlar gloves.

I want me some!

Someday.

Most guys dont tie off their extension ladders as they arrive on the roof for a service call.
Most guys own cheap ropes. They are nothing to brag about.
I have a rope that I could write a page about! Really!


Most shops send out a guy to do a five ton pot change out and if the guy dont like the thought of hefting the unit up onto the roof by his lonesome ... he is simply laughed at and told to suck it up!

I've even heard grumbles from the office manager when I wanted a PO to buy safety glasses.

And how many trucks today have any kind of first aid kit onboard?


My personal belief about welding rigs is they should all have THREE bottle holders on them.
Oxy, accet ...... AND a fire extinguisher!

The best I've ever seen on a company truck was a single extinguisher up front.

I think every truck/ van whatever... should have one up front, one in the rear and one with your welding rig. Whether you choose to carry that extinguisher with you or not. But it's there.


The last shop I worked for provided me with an aluminum extension ladder.
The rope was shot.
It was old.
And once you got up onto the roof and peered down ... you could see the bow in the ladder!!!

It was BENT!!!

bad enough it was aluminum.... but it wasnt even straight anymore!

[boat racer]

Our boss pays us a $20 cash bonus (EACH!) on the spot every time he shows up on a jobsite and finds no saftey violations. You never saw so many guys worried about setting their ladder at the right angle and tieing it off!

[snevois]

I'm in St. Louis. I hear Louisville is nice though.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by lmtd
[QUOTE][i] ...buy a meat cutter a cup of coffee and you might find a pair given to you. They can atleast turn you on to a CHEAP source of them, thats how I got mine.


Thanks for the advice.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by boat racer
You never saw so many guys worried about setting their ladder at the right angle and tieing it off!

Thats a wonderful motivator.
Ladder safety is serious business.


Glad to hear your outfit is right on.

[747ken]

Originally posted by R12rules


None of my hoses have their valve core depressors inside the ends! They are removed imediately!

Anyone who attaches his gage manifold set using standard hoses, without blow back prevention devices, is making a mess and allowing freon to be wasted which upsets the charge in critical chrage systems!

A blow back device costs about eight dollars and they last for years.


Hi R12,
I'm a HVAC student and found your post interesting. Hope you don't mind a few questions...

Why do you remove the core depressors? Is that for improved flow and reduced time to recover, evacuate, etc?

I'm trying to understand the blow back device. Is it the same thing as a check-valve on the end of the hoses? Who makes them, and where do they attach? Thanks for your help.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by 747ken

Originally posted by R12rules


None of my hoses have their valve core depressors inside the ends! They are removed imediately!

Hi R12,
I'm a HVAC student and found your post interesting. Hope you don't mind a few questions...

Why do you remove the core depressors? Is that for improved flow and reduced time to recover, evacuate, etc?

I'm trying to understand the blow back device. Is it the same thing as a check-valve on the end of the hoses? Who makes them, and where do they attach? Thanks for your help.



Two things really speed up the flow thru a 1/4" hose. One is the removal of the scrader valve core and the other is the removal of the valve core depressor inside your hose ends.

Imagine driving down the road at sixty miles an hour and all of a sudden .... there is traffic stalled up ahead.
All you see if brake lights for half a mile or more.

When you finally get your turn to drive up near the action ... you notice a baricade has been placed in the road!
And one by one, cars are having to single file navigate their way thru this device which has only served to slow them all down!

Then once past the device ... you are traveling fast once again!


That's what the valve core depressor does to refrigerant flow within your hose end.
That's what the scrader valve core does to refrigerant flow within the line your hose is attached to the system.


Another issue is losing freon when you go to remove your hi side hose from the pressurized system.
This has been a serious issue for techs for many years.
In the begining, there was little that could be done about it.
You simply had to do it fast and hope you didnt lose much.
Then someone invented a single valve core depressor device which screwed onto the scrader vale and depressed the core. It allowed the tech to attach his hi side hose to the system via this valve and read the pressure inside.
Once he or she ... or in Jack's case "it" ..... had completed their readings ... they simply turned the valve device and that relieved the pressure on the scrader vale core. Then the technician slowly opened his hi side service valve and allowed the freon to bleed over into the lo side of the refrigeration system he was servicing.
This enabled the tech to prevent loss of gas and preserve the freon charge on the smaller critically charged systems.

(you do know about "Jack".... don't you?)



Finally someone invented these little brass goodies which screw onto your hose ends and they are a bit fatter than your normal hose end.

They depress the scrader valve core so as to allow access to pressure readings inside the sealed system.

Also, they allow for easy removal of the hoses and the tech can bleed the hi side into the lo side, still preserving the integrity of the charge within the system.



Does that answer your question?

[747ken]

Thanks for you help, R12.

[R12rules]

Originally posted by 747ken
Thanks for you help, R12.

Yer Welcome Ken

[cobaltfjord]

My how times have changed. I showed-up at
Ace Air Conditioning twenty-five years ago,
and put on a pair of gloves. Everyone
laughed at me. They said real mechanics
don't wear gloves or googles. So, I worked
without gloves and routinely cut my hands to
shreds working on window units.

Ben Stein, the owner of Ace Air Conditioning,
worked hard for his retirement money. A few
years ago he was shot dead on a Miami Beach
public golf course by a couple of teenagers
trying to rob him. He fought back.

Ben Stein sold his business to his top mechanic.
The mechanic eventually gave it to his wife
(who had been running it for him) as part of a
divorce settlement, and went to work for another
company. A year or two later, she closed the
shop.