union or non-union?

[rlimon75]

im a 34 yr old male in south central texas. i am currently a student learning rhvac. my question is what are the advantages and disadvantages of working for the union?

[y7turbo]

I like the union I am in, the training is awesome and cant be beat, of coarse the pay is kick ass too.

[rlimon75]

yeah i heard the money is really good, and they have a apprentice program. would love to get some awesome training in commercial refridgeration.

[freezon]

There is a search function on this site. Up near the top of the page. If you search this topic, you will find many heated arguments on this very topic.

[RoBoTeq]

I like the union I am in, the training is awesome and cant be beat, of coarse the pay is kick ass too.
This is the key. You must foremost, "like" your work. In this cas, turbo likes the union. It is also good to like the company you are "working for" as well. Without the company, the union does not exist. That does not go the other way round.

From what I understand, Texas is staying busy. For union workers, that is good because the only way that better pay is really better is if it is steady.

Even though I am very much against the politics and economic impact of the existance of labor unions, if you can steadily make more money and don't mind the politics of the organization you must belong to, take the money and run. I've done it.

[RoBoTeq]

There is a search function on this site. Up near the top of the page. If you search this topic, you will find many heated arguments on this very topic.
It is a reasonable question that if we can keep our political passions out of it deserves a reasonable answer.

[Chuck65]

Work Hard !!

Work Good !!

Live Better !!

Work Union !!

These days this is somtimes easier said than done. Time are tough for just about everyone in the trade in my area. Union and non -union alike.

While I do enjoy the benefit of better pay and working conditions than some others in the trade,I also feel like I have earned them.

My five year apprenticeship was worth everything i put into it. I started out carrying a 10 in 1 and a set of guages (not using,just carrying)and now as a Journeyman Mechanic I can see why I was only allowed to to watch and learn while just starting out.

I also have the advantage of being able learn ,license and/or certify in plumbing , pipe fitting , and welding. All just for showing up for classes on my own time. The education is free. The testing and certifying are not. I was state certified as a medical gas installer/Brazer before I graduated.(for free)

Do your research, and make an INFORMED DECISION.

Best of Luck to you and your future.

[kirbinster]

Unions should be illegal! There is no difference between a union and OPEC. Its just a means of taking money away from one group and giving it to another. I bet all you union members hate OPEC. Sure it is good for you as you may make more money, but the company you work for just charges the customer more. Unions raise the cost of living for everyone. All people should be paid based on supply and demand and the quality of what they do. The worst of all are teachers unions, where you get a raise each year just because you failed to die. A teacher can be a total FUc#%#$ Off, and as long as they don't rape a kid they keep their job and get more money each year.

[y7turbo]

Sure it is good for you as you may make more money, but the company you work for just charges the customer more. Unions raise the cost of living for everyone. All people should be paid based on supply and demand and the quality of what they do. .

::DD:

I thought we could have made it past the first page before someone started with their crap.


Since you think we make too much money and the companies we work for charge too much, whats DO YOU think is a fair hourly rate for the mechanics and the company rate to the customers?

[kirbinster]

Its not crap, but you are entitled to your opinion. To address your question a fair rate is the average of what non-union operations charge for the same service. I don't know your area so I could not possibly give you a dollar number, but you know exactly what I am saying.

When a job is forced to use union contractors the price goes up and no additional value is received - just like what OPEC does to the price of oil!

[RoBoTeq]

Unions should be illegal! There is no difference between a union and OPEC. Its just a means of taking money away from one group and giving it to another. I bet all you union members hate OPEC. Sure it is good for you as you may make more money, but the company you work for just charges the customer more. Unions raise the cost of living for everyone. All people should be paid based on supply and demand and the quality of what they do. The worst of all are teachers unions, where you get a raise each year just because you failed to die. A teacher can be a total FUc#%#$ Off, and as long as they don't rape a kid they keep their job and get more money each year.
This would be the politics I was referring to. The OP did not ask for a political discussion, only if it was to his benefit to go union.

[freezon]

See Robo? What you are saying is right, but people are not going to let you have a civilized conversation.

Too much emotion, not enough information...

[heavymetaldad]

Well.................
My reply is biased.
I'm 597............. have health insurance, training, AND a pension.
Couldn't imagine myself as non union.
As far as company chargeout rates.......... there are non union entities that charge MORE per hour.
Some forget the labor struggles of the 1800's when the seeds of the middle class were established.

[timebuilder]

Having been a member of three unions, I am biased, as well.

For you, as an individual, being a union member has great benefits to YOU.

The larger discussion of whether small clusters of unionized workers raise costs for all of us is a worthy one. For example, in Pa, any work done on a government building is either union work, or must be PAID AS a union worker would earn. This is called "prevailing wage."

The problem raised by the poster a few spaces back is that this union/prevailing wage work means that all of this work costs more to the taxpayer. That taxpayer is most likely NOT a union or prevailing wage worker, so yes, it DOES raise taxes when the same work costs the highest amount of money as compared to a non-union worker.

Then, there is the much larger issue of whether public employees should be unionized, since we ALL pay the highest labor costs for their work, in which case, ALL of our taxes are higher.

As far as HVAC is concerned, you are unlikely to change the accepted structure of pay for those jobs that go to union contractors, and in that case, it IS better for YOU, as an individual, to train and work as a union member.

So, one can hoist oneself on their own petard and remain non-union as a point of righteous indignation, or you can take the opportunity you have to achieve a better life for yourself if you are not planning on eventually operating your own shop.

Now that wasn't so hard, was it?


.

[RoBoTeq]

See Robo? What you are saying is right, but people are not going to let you have a civilized conversation.

Too much emotion, not enough information...
I've been too guilty of just what you are stating to be judgemental.

I feel for everyone having to make decisions about work in this economy, so I am more sensitive to just helping people to work rather then bickering about what I think about organizations. There will be plenty of time for bickering once we get through our current crisis.

[beenthere]

The larger discussion of whether small clusters of unionized workers raise costs for all of us is a worthy one. For example, in Pa, any work done on a government building is either union work, or must be PAID AS a union worker would earn. This is called "prevailing wage."

Thats only if the work meets the current $25,000.00 minimum requirement.

Changing out a 5 ton RTU, is not prevailing wage.

Did some work at a school around 3 or 4 years ago. It was not prevailing wage. It was under the $25,000.00 requirement.



PENNSYLVANIA PREVAILING WAGE ACT
Construction projects (construction, reconstruction, demolition, alteration and or repair work other than maintenance work) financed by a public body where the estimated cost is at least $25,000 require Pennsylvania prevailing wages under the Pennsylvania Prevailing Wage Act (43 P.S. §§ 165-1 through 165-17). A municipality has the responsibility of obtaining Pennsylvania prevailing wage rates from the Commonwealth, Department of Labor & Industry for a project. The public body must also include Pennsylvania prevailing wage rates in the contracts, notice for bids and advertisements. 43 P.S. § 154-4; 34 Pa. Code § 9.104.

[classical]

UNion in Texas I do not hink so. That is a hanging offense.

[bigtime]

Seems like union workers do make more money. If you join up, dont complain about anyone else getting something they dont deserve, be it welfare or bank bailouts.

[RoBoTeq]

Seems like union workers do make more money. If you join up, dont complain about anyone else getting something they dont deserve, be it welfare or bank bailouts.
This is what I meant about the politics of belonging to a union. When I was given the oportunity to go union, with the advantage of having family in decisive positions in the union, I could not bring myself to accept the politics of the unions.