Large competitor wants to fire but wants non-compete

[fishintime]

Ran into one of the big wigs from a large local outfit at lunch the other day. He asked how things are going and told him well when it cooled off so did my phone. He calls this evening and tosses out a respectable offer but with a big stipulation. They want me to sign a 2 year non-compete that is in force while I'm working plus the 2 years after I would leave or they would let me go.
Now I don't have any problem with not doing any side work the issue I would have is he could hire me for 5 minutes then let me go and I'm in a bad spot. I've been told they aren't any good in court but they have deep pockets and my experience is he who has the money wins. I wouldn't even consider going back to work for someone again but having a constant flow of work would be easier on my blood pressure.
I have heard that this company is good to work for by a few guys and bad, surprise. I'm not getting any younger and have a low tolerance for getting shovels full tossed at me. With new construction being where it is at this point we are having to do service and of course that takes a big base to stay consistent. Anyone else signed one or require guys coming in to sign?

[TxTurbo]

Non-compete clauses are pretty common in this industry. You may consider asking to amend it with a 90 day trial clause, making it ineffective if they fire you or you decide to leave in the first 90 days. Just to give you both time to see if things work out.

Also, see if the clause is location-dependent. It should only be effective in their service area (make sure it's in writing). Worst case scenario, you work for a few years and leave town to work in another area.

[dandyme]

check with an attorney

[midhvac]

Reading between the lines, it looks like you're self employed, and getting older (both apply to me too). Be very careful what you're getting into and giving up. You might want to consider kicking the bushes to pick up more service accounts.

The big companies have a lot of empty trucks sitting in their parking lot when things get slow. And they'll throw BIG shovels full at you the rest of the time. So it isn't totally unlike what bugs you now.

And you're probably pretty much set in your ways at this point. They also might be eyeing YOUR accounts too.

[Adnshel]

Also think about the work you are bringing to the Big company. Who is getting the better deal if you go to work for them?

[fishintime]

Ya my accounts would roll over to them. The wife says change really isn't my strong suit. I didn't sleep a minute last night. The contract covers our entire metro area as that is what they service. We couldn't move at this point due to our son in High School and JROTC. I did get a few things out of the way. They GPS the trucks, which is fine with me. The last thing I want to do at the end of the day is drive it some more. I told them with the GPS I didn't want to call on site or call when job is done, period. No after 8pm calls either. They have kids that can do that and still get up in the morning,ha.
I think by signing I give up a key bargaining tool down the road for raises and other things that may come up. Frankly the customers they normally get and I get are two different types of people. They get the guy that saw a yellow pages ad and called the biggest ad and mine are the guy that heard about me from someone at work or neighbor... I frankly don't know how many of my folks they could hang onto as they like knowing who is coming and they would get next available with them. All that being said it makes me not understand the importance of a non-compete with the situation we have.
I did tell him I would be more inclined if at least the non-compete ended 6 months after I left or that it would sunset if they let me go. He said it is mandatory for anyone that has been self employed. The only thing they are really offering when I break it down is constant work. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. I'm competing against them now so what changes that down the road? Just seems like buying your competition away. Which as stated I really don't think we at least typically draw the same crowd.

[knewguy]

The grass isn't always greener.

[the dangling wrangler]

Do a search. This subject has been covered in great detail.

[midhvac]

Sounds like a big mistake to me - one you could end up regretting for the rest of your life, and having a lot more stress than you currently have.

I used to go through the pros and cons of having my own business and considered numerous times hanging it up. But one of the pros I finally thought of put an end to all of that.

It's all MINE. I built it from SCRATCH. If something's wrong with it - just work on FIXING it.

[wahoo]

All of us "Older guys" see where you are, and for my 2c worth I'd recommend you develop a business plan. About 20 yrs. ago I hired a "helper" and trained him and then hired HIM a helper etc etc...now we have about 10 employees. I'm not twisting wrenches anymore (which I miss somewhat) and if I need a day off for something, then the Dispatcher is in the office taking care of things. I do about 60% of the sales, and the lead technicians (3 of them) take up the rest of the sales slack. It's not perfect but it works pretty well. You need to "plan" for the day you no longer have to run every call! I'd recommend that before working for "the other guy", you'll be happier. IMO

[craig1]

I didn't sleep a minute last night.

Well, forget the whole discussion even happened and you'll sleep better tonight :) The deal doesn't even seem worth considering since it seems like any way you slice it you're getting the short end of the stick. The really, really, short and probably rotten end.

I agree with Wahoo's post

[MwTechInc]

RUN Fishintime, RUN...............as fast as you can the other way.

Classic case of you being used.

Suck you in , get what he can, spit you back out, all for his gain.

[Dowadudda]

he's after your work. It's as plain as day.

[woodsman]

Sounds like a scenario the union shops run around here. Give you what you think is a good deal to get your customer base and hires you. Now you are low man on the totem pole so when times get lean, you are first to go.

[Dowadudda]

so your willing to sign a contract willingly, for this security you think he can offer you, and if things go south, he holds power over you to dictate you stand down and not participate in the trade, the only thing you perhaps know how to do for 2 years. Where would you work for those 2 years? Walmart? McDonalds?

Let me tell you something. I know. I have been there. And back. Read my posts using the search button.

Your no better off there than you are right now. You have the ability right now to change the course of your life, with all you need already in place. But your willing to give that up to go to work for him for what reason? Maybe Security of a steady check? Yeagh right. There is no more security for you working for someone else than working for yourself. Your just blind to it right now because your frame of mind is such.

Let me ask you something? Why do you think the phone stopped ringing? What caused this? I seriously need to know.

If your were busy, would you even entertain this idea?

Would you like to be that guy one day, like a hawk flying high looking for prey? Would you like to be the guy who tries to hire younger talent like yourself?

This guy thinks you are weak but smart. Are you weak? Or Are you just smart? If your weak but smart, you will give into the notion that there is security in this man's offer. If your strong, and smart, you will realize you need to regroup and re arm yourself.

[otto]

He wants your customers. Then you will be miserable and will ot be able to do anything about it. Turn him down respectfully and thank him for the offer.

[John Markl]

Ran into one of the big wigs from a large local outfit at lunch the other day. He asked how things are going and told him well when it cooled off so did my phone. He calls this evening and tosses out a respectable offer but with a big stipulation. They want me to sign a 2 year non-compete that is in force while I'm working plus the 2 years after I would leave or they would let me go.
Now I don't have any problem with not doing any side work the issue I would have is he could hire me for 5 minutes then let me go and I'm in a bad spot. I've been told they aren't any good in court but they have deep pockets and my experience is he who has the money wins. I wouldn't even consider going back to work for someone again but having a constant flow of work would be easier on my blood pressure.
I have heard that this company is good to work for by a few guys and bad, surprise. I'm not getting any younger and have a low tolerance for getting shovels full tossed at me. With new construction being where it is at this point we are having to do service and of course that takes a big base to stay consistent. Anyone else signed one or require guys coming in to sign?

My experience has been, that for a non-compete to be binding, you MUST be specifically compensated (apart from any other compensation) for sigining the agreement.

[midhvac]

Sign up for membership here. After x number of posts, you'll be granted access to other areas where you can get lots of valuable tips from others like yourself about running your own business. As somebody said, thank them for their "kind" offer and let it go. Then work on fine-tuning your operation. You can turn it into something with a nice cash value then and be able to sell it for a good price when you get older. You're in a big area with lots of potential customers.

[jhallinstaller]

im young not dumb and i say give yourself 6 months. youll sleep easier and will laugh as you pass those guys van.

pop says " pick it up or put it down you cant do both"!


i grew up in a boiler shop wanting nothing more than to get out of this life sucking industry , im 23 now and running a very successful "small" company .
not every day is payday ,but i go fishing and find alt. to my game plan evolve or die but dont give up.

[supertek65]

do not do it


they do hold up in court

no

no

no

[supertek65]

good for you

you do not have to be old to be succesful

i would think small shops would thrive in this economy??:playing:


im young not dumb and i say give yourself 6 months. youll sleep easier and will laugh as you pass those guys van.


great quote!!!!!!!!

pop says " pick it up or put it down you cant do both"!


i grew up in a boiler shop wanting nothing more than to get out of this life sucking industry , im 23 now and running a very successful "small" company .
not every day is payday ,but i go fishing and find alt. to my game plan evolve or die but dont give up.

[jhallinstaller]

rode with pop when most guys were riding bikes also felt deprived of childhood.
take this tool and these parts.... cant blame him though i learned a lot about life in a service van "apprenticing". look at guys my age every day not working or not heading in any direction it makes me happy to be "out there".

also yes i am doing well its put up or shut up these days.

[supertek65]

it always has been in business!:tank:



rode with pop when most guys were riding bikes also felt deprived of childhood.
take this tool and these parts.... cant blame him though i learned a lot about life in a service van "apprenticing". look at guys my age every day not working or not heading in any direction it makes me happy to be "out there".

also yes i am doing well its put up or shut up these days.

[fishintime]

Ya thanks guys. Everyone really had some solid advice, some even some tough love. I think I got caught up in the moment more than anything. I would be in real trouble if things didn't work out well and don't know what else I would do. We went over everything books wise I I've been doing a lot better than I thought. Sick to see how much money we spend every month, that is going to stop.
After really taking a look at things here are a few thing that stick out that need to be fixed.

1. We have zero marketing plan. We just aren't doing anything to make the phone ring. We have referral program and don't have but one commercial contract that pays every month. I plan on starting a preventative maintenance program for all our residential customers. A real program that puts me on site twice a year and includes a free service call per year if needed. Referral program is still on the drawing board but thought we should just give dinner for 2 at a local restaurant as I don't think discounting is a good way to go. I've been going to find out what it costs to be in our welcome packet the Chamber sends out. We are also going to sponsor the local school news letter I guess. It has the lunch menu and activities for the week on it and would guess it is stuck to a lot of refrigerators in town that will have our name on it. This will not seem like much compared to some of you I'm sure but is big compared to doing nothing.

2. Another issue I have is a one man operation can't be selling to different folks while working. I help my wife with office stuff, diagnosis problem, buy parts, go get parts, install parts, maintain van and equipment... If I can get busy I think I'm going to get one of the kids at the tech school to help with at least running down parts, cleaning things up and at the same time get some of my customers used to seeing someone at least with me for now and as things progress someday maybe I could send someone out of a few calls without me. Leaving more time for me to work on getting more work.

3. This one is going to cause some upset times with the wife I bet... We need to control our spending. I guess I just didn't want to know what we are spending per month. We really don't have much of a money coming in problem after looking at things we have a money going out problem. While I was out replacing a 3ton system today she was out shopping and took the two little neighbor boys to get a few things as well ::DD:. See why I put get more work first. I think that is just going to be easier.

Long story short I'm going to respectfully decline as advised. I have a few other ideas but will post something new about that. Thank you all for your advise and wisdom this was my first post and I'm glad I did.

[supertek65]

fishintime

looks like we live kinda close

my email address is in my profile

give me a shout!!!!!!!!!!!

frank:playing:








Ya thanks guys. Everyone really had some solid advice, some even some tough love. I think I got caught up in the moment more than anything. I would be in real trouble if things didn't work out well and don't know what else I would do. We went over everything books wise I I've been doing a lot better than I thought. Sick to see how much money we spend every month, that is going to stop.
After really taking a look at things here are a few thing that stick out that need to be fixed.

1. We have zero marketing plan. We just aren't doing anything to make the phone ring. We have referral program and don't have but one commercial contract that pays every month. I plan on starting a preventative maintenance program for all our residential customers. A real program that puts me on site twice a year and includes a free service call per year if needed. Referral program is still on the drawing board but thought we should just give dinner for 2 at a local restaurant as I don't think discounting is a good way to go. I've been going to find out what it costs to be in our welcome packet the Chamber sends out. We are also going to sponsor the local school news letter I guess. It has the lunch menu and activities for the week on it and would guess it is stuck to a lot of refrigerators in town that will have our name on it. This will not seem like much compared to some of you I'm sure but is big compared to doing nothing.

2. Another issue I have is a one man operation can't be selling to different folks while working. I help my wife with office stuff, diagnosis problem, buy parts, go get parts, install parts, maintain van and equipment... If I can get busy I think I'm going to get one of the kids at the tech school to help with at least running down parts, cleaning things up and at the same time get some of my customers used to seeing someone at least with me for now and as things progress someday maybe I could send someone out of a few calls without me. Leaving more time for me to work on getting more work.

3. This one is going to cause some upset times with the wife I bet... We need to control our spending. I guess I just didn't want to know what we are spending per month. We really don't have much of a money coming in problem after looking at things we have a money going out problem. While I was out replacing a 3ton system today she was out shopping and took the two little neighbor boys to get a few things as well ::DD:. See why I put get more work first. I think that is just going to be easier.

Long story short I'm going to respectfully decline as advised. I have a few other ideas but will post something new about that. Thank you all for your advise and wisdom this was my first post and I'm glad I did.

[Adnshel]

Fishin, sounds like you have always done pretty well for yourself. Don't be too hard on her...she has probably been that generous for years and needs to tighten the purse strings while times are tough.

[supertek65]

if she is hot and puts out

buy her whatever she wants!!!!!!!!:bsing:














Fishin, sounds like you have always done pretty well for yourself. Don't be too hard on her...she has probably been that generous for years and needs to tighten the purse strings while times are tough.

[fishintime]

Well what do you do... Gripping about spending money earned me a trip to the mother-in laws bright and early in the morning. Guess I better just sit in the corner and shut my mouth before it gets worse. I'll put 100 dollar bill on the table that one of her family has something broke around the house and she has already volunteered me. Time before last I get there and see bundles of singles on her uncles(lives right down the street from her mother) roof and say looks like they are getting a new roof. She looks over with that look and I knew the deal. I guess it's a small price to pay for someone to put up with me on a regular basis.

[Dowadudda]

I don't want to be the jerk to you, but you have to take control of your life, and it sounds like it starts with making your wife understand that spending money more conservatively is now the rule of the land.

You go out and bust your but. She goes and blows it. That is a real team right there. NOT.

Marketing is number one. Any money left, after your basic needs are met should go to marketing to get the phone ringing.

If you had taken that job and not fixed your spending habits, you'd be bankrupt quick.

It's not rocket science stuff here.

This last post entry by you says to me that your weak in the mind. You have to start working on that side of your brain and getting it stronger.

Your not in control of your future at this moment thats for sure. Your wife is not helping matters. Shes bullying you. At least that is what it sounds like based on your posts.

[Twilly]

Twilli's expierince are that they are hard to enforce in the courts, but you would possibly be prevented from contacting your old customers.

Twilli says seek legal advice from an attorney that is expierinced with employment contracts.

[midhvac]

Fishin - We might not have come over in the same boat, but we're in the same boat now in more ways than one.

Somebody stole the wife's credit card, but I didn't report it, because the statement came and they were spending less than her. :rolleyes:

[supertek65]

dowadudda,
you usually give sound advice and are obviously a very smart guy,I am sure your life is in order and you are financially sound.
that being said!

The correct answer depends on the hottness and put out factor spending equasion!!

for example if she is a 10 and gives it up 7 times a week then she can spend 70% of your net profit after taxes

if she is only a 5 and gives it up once a week then she is entitled to 6% of net profit after taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!



I don't want to be the jerk to you, but you have to take control of your life, and it sounds like it starts with making your wife understand that spending money more conservatively is now the rule of the land.

You go out and bust your but. She goes and blows it. That is a real team right there. NOT.

Marketing is number one. Any money left, after your basic needs are met should go to marketing to get the phone ringing.

If you had taken that job and not fixed your spending habits, you'd be bankrupt quick.

It's not rocket science stuff here.

This last post entry by you says to me that your weak in the mind. You have to start working on that side of your brain and getting it stronger.

Your not in control of your future at this moment thats for sure. Your wife is not helping matters. Shes bullying you. At least that is what it sounds like based on your posts.

[John Markl]

Having just celebrated 20 years with the missus, there is more to it, than "hotness" and "putting out".....:rules:

[supertek65]

WHAT???????????????

:payattention:












Having just celebrated 20 years with the missus, there is more to it, than "hotness" and "putting out".....:rules:

[supertek65]

you can still love her if she is not hot and does not put out

you just pay her less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!









Having just celebrated 20 years with the missus, there is more to it, than "hotness" and "putting out".....:rules:

[timebuilder]

Ran into one of the big wigs from a large local outfit at lunch the other day. He asked how things are going and told him well when it cooled off so did my phone. He calls this evening and tosses out a respectable offer but with a big stipulation. They want me to sign a 2 year non-compete that is in force while I'm working plus the 2 years after I would leave or they would let me go.
Now I don't have any problem with not doing any side work the issue I would have is he could hire me for 5 minutes then let me go and I'm in a bad spot. I've been told they aren't any good in court but they have deep pockets and my experience is he who has the money wins. I wouldn't even consider going back to work for someone again but having a constant flow of work would be easier on my blood pressure.
I have heard that this company is good to work for by a few guys and bad, surprise. I'm not getting any younger and have a low tolerance for getting shovels full tossed at me. With new construction being where it is at this point we are having to do service and of course that takes a big base to stay consistent. Anyone else signed one or require guys coming in to sign?

I would

1) search this topic, as we have had discussions about his. Not all of them might be available to you based on the forums you can access.

2) ask a legal expert in your area. If you are asked to sign an agreement that is not legal in your state, and your attorney tells them so, they may not require you to sign it, as asking someone to sign an illegal agreement is against the statute of frauds in some states. Most of the time, you must be offered "something of value" in return for signing, other than simply "employment" in a non-compete agreement.

[jhallinstaller]

i have a uniqe marketing plan i use ... when the phone rings i answer.
...do whatever the voice on the other side tells me and make the best of it everyday i try to be excited to meet every customer.

and... i keep my wife out of the office ooooops!

[fishintime]

I used to run a tight ship but as more and more money came along I just stopped worrying about what was being spent. I used to be able to make more than she spent but today is a different day. I don't mean to throw her under the bus. Just as much my fault for not paying attention. Just in case she would read this,ha for the record she works at the school for a few hours in the morning and works at a local restaurant some evenings. She has been beside me in very good times and very low. She is nice to me when both of us can stay awake long enough as well :D. I have really just been on auto pilot for awhile. Back when the economy was rolling I was making enough money day after day that at the time not much really was a problem. Well I would guess most of us have had to pull the strings in a bit. I'm really glad that this whole thing happened really. Forced me to look at some things I should have been looking at and also showed me where I need to put some more attention.
Even though I had to go work my but off at the Mother-in-laws I really had a good day. Just glad to put the job offer behind me.

[tipsrfine]

Blast from the past! "A penny saved, is a penny earned".

[midhvac]

I used to run a tight ship but as more and more money came along I just stopped worrying about what was being spent. I used to be able to make more than she spent but today is a different day. I don't mean to throw her under the bus. Just as much my fault for not paying attention. Just in case she would read this,ha for the record she works at the school for a few hours in the morning and works at a local restaurant some evenings. She has been beside me in very good times and very low. She is nice to me when both of us can stay awake long enough as well :D. I have really just been on auto pilot for awhile. Back when the economy was rolling I was making enough money day after day that at the time not much really was a problem. Well I would guess most of us have had to pull the strings in a bit. I'm really glad that this whole thing happened really. Forced me to look at some things I should have been looking at and also showed me where I need to put some more attention.
Even though I had to go work my but off at the Mother-in-laws I really had a good day. Just glad to put the job offer behind me.

Great post. That's pretty much how things are here too with the business and the wife. Used to make a lot more money than her, then it turned around the other way. Now we're about even. It's really hard to keep her from spending too much. But I know I can't just turn my head the other way or we'll get in over our head in debt. So I keep dropping *polite* reminders and asking questions, just to let her know that I'm concerned. Years ago, I stuck my head in the sand, and didn't know that she'd run up 50k in credit card debt mostly for cologne, jewelry, the Imelda Marcos shoe collection, etc. (I finally asked her if she was a centipede.) "How many pairs of feet to you HAVE?". And why do you need 200 purses?

[supertek65]

LOL!!!!!!!!!


Great post. That's pretty much how things are here too with the business and the wife. Used to make a lot more money than her, then it turned around the other way. Now we're about even. It's really hard to keep her from spending too much. But I know I can't just turn my head the other way or we'll get in over our head in debt. So I keep dropping *polite* reminders and asking questions, just to let her know that I'm concerned. Years ago, I stuck my head in the sand, and didn't know that she'd run up 50k in credit card debt mostly for cologne, jewelry, the Imelda Marcos shoe collection, etc. (I finally asked her if she was a centipede.) "How many pairs of feet to you HAVE?". And why do you need 200 purses?