talk me down off the ledge!

[smittyii]

refrigeration customers are making me want to go full time a/c. had a first time customer in my small town, with true reach in cooler. compressor shuts down on overload two or three times a day. starts fine when it cools down. suggested comp change out, they say ok. the tecumseh i pick up has a rotolock suction whereas the old one is sweat. get it changed out and started up, get paid. i always tell reefer customers to keep a close watch on unit for next 24 hrs. this morning(sunday) phone starts ringing off the hook at 7am, not cooling or coming on. when i get there the first thing out their mouth "it didn't need a compressor did it". i just say hows about you let me have a look before you decide i'm rippin you off. you guessed it the rotolock had developed a small leak overnight. tightened it up,charged it, let it run a few hours no problems. i'm tired of refrigeration customers. at least these people paid when the work was done. most want it fixed yesterday and pay you when they get around to it in a few months. why bust your buns for people who don't know you, don't like you, and don't trust you.:gah:

[MwTechInc]

been there.............

Not being a butt here, but I don't see this as the customers problem.

Jumping ship to A/c just closes one door and opens another.

Walk into a "name your customer here" and find the inside of the place 82
deg with 95% humidity.

Then, face the manager who's red in the head, along with possible customers(at least the ones who stayed) and work out the problem, gets better when you tell him it will be two days to get parts.

Most refrigeration customers have more than one cooler, yea they might have to move stuff around, but that's about it.

No backup for down A/C

[james122964]

refrigeration customers are making me want to go full time a/c. had a first time customer in my small town, with true reach in cooler. compressor shuts down on overload two or three times a day. starts fine when it cools down. suggested comp change out, they say ok. the tecumseh i pick up has a rotolock suction whereas the old one is sweat. get it changed out and started up, get paid. i always tell reefer customers to keep a close watch on unit for next 24 hrs. this morning(sunday) phone starts ringing off the hook at 7am, not cooling or coming on. when i get there the first thing out their mouth "it didn't need a compressor did it". i just say hows about you let me have a look before you decide i'm rippin you off. you guessed it the rotolock had developed a small leak overnight. tightened it up,charged it, let it run a few hours no problems. i'm tired of refrigeration customers. at least these people paid when the work was done. most want it fixed yesterday and pay you when they get around to it in a few months. why bust your buns for people who don't know you, don't like you, and don't trust you.:gah:

Had a restaurant call the company I work for because the normal guy was, get this, in jail.

I get there find no gas showing in the site glass, so I hook up gauges, 380 on the high side with my high gauge vibrating. Low side 8 inches vacuum.
Immediately turn the system off.
Go get my recovery cylinder hook it up to the high side and drain off 6lb of refrigerant, then valve off the receiver and recover the left over gas from the low side.
The filter was a 52 flare so I change that find it was 100 percent blocked.
Put my new filter in and pull vacuum. Open the receiver and start the system up. let it run 15 mins the small 2 door built in under counter makes temp in about 20 minutes, check the sub cool 9 degrees, check the super heat 8 degrees.
Finish the job, all is good, people pay, they are very happy.

2 weeks later they call, about a walk in cooler, complain that its a call back because I was just there, I call and explain that I worked on the under counter, all good again.

I get there start to check the cooler, owner comes down and says shes not paying (they are COD) that I will bill them. I politely tell her that is not my decision, she starts screaming all types of crap at me.

I grab my tool bag and start to leave, she says were you going, I said next call, your not paying, I am not working, have a nice day. She calls her husband down and they tell me I am not going anywhere, this is getting a little scary, I reach in my tool bag and lay my hands on the biggest crescent wrench, just in case. Tell them to call the office, I am leaving, which I do with them screaming who is gonna fix this f+++en cooler. I said your guy when he gets out of jail.

called the office and warned them of what went down and they may be calling to complain, they never did, or I was never told of it.

Needless to say, the customers that are horrible are fairly far in-between but sometimes you get a couple in a row.

I am sure the same type of stuff happens with a/c & heating, I had that when I was working for myself. People in a mobile home, bad disconnect out on the pole. Had the furnace apart when I got there, put it back together and found 1 leg of the incoming line was only 45 volts, told them, they said ok.
Then the call me again, said they had electrician there and it was not the disconnect. I went back down. Got there you guessed it, furnace all apart again, put it back together and told them the same thing. Well, the ELECTRICIAN was there and told me I was wrong. I got PO'd at him and told him that he had better show me his license because I am calling the fire marshal, he shut his mouth and left. I ask the home owner to turn on the electric range, reply it does not work, the lights were dim, ask them why they use such low wattage bulbs, they say the bulbs are 75 watt, ask if the TV works, well sometimes but it goes out alot when the furnace would come on.

Explain, that they have a bad disconnect out on the pole, take them out and show them the arcing in the disconnect. They ask me to fix it, (which I normally do) but I tell them not in my scope of work. I do not deal with people like that. Lifes to short and there is lots of customers that will treat you at least normally.

Jim

[Airmechanical]

take it in stride man

there are gonne be some problematic systems out there

we make mistakes we fix them

refrigeration is not a bad carreer if you can stay away from the small stuff

i made some good money on small equipment, but man the leaning over and hard to access stuff just gets tiresome



.

[jpsmith1cm]

refrigeration is not a bad carreer if you can stay away from the small stuff




.

I'll second that notion.

I LOVE refer work, but the little stuff rarely fails to pi$$ me off.

The big stuff practically tells you what is wrong with it.

[creeker66]

I feel your pain lol. I have been doing commercial kitchens now for 6 years.
I have had a few customers B@tch and complain. I just tell them YOU called me I did not call you...if you want me to leave just let me know...They usually leave me alone after that...I do find that the Good customers out number the bad ones though...I hate COD customers,i make sure the office phones them ahead of time and they have a check ready when i'm done.I have no tolerance for screaming customers though, they don't get a chance to try and talk me into staying, i just leave....let the office deal with it..cheers:bsing:

[ga-hvac-tech]

People are people... you will get screaming HO's also. At commercial accounts, they will fuss about the stock in the cooler... A HO will fuss about their dog, their baby (which you cannot hear crying), their MIL/FIL that nobody can see, etc...etc...etc...

Some folks just fuss... in our business, we do better if we learn to handle them and go on.

I like the posts above about folks just picking up their tools and go... or you treat me with respect... your choice. Oh, and this is COD; will you be paying with cash or check? (I do not take CC's).

[HvacStudentWTI]

i would rather work refridgeration anyday, point being in my area i cant speak for the rest of the world or ,much because i have no feild experience only knowledge from others and business ethics.

anyway to the point most a/c companies expecially residential give incentives for u 2 sell change outs and install change outs, this makes u lean towards bad ethics like diagnoseing as compressor failure when it is something else like a contactor or a capacitor.Or the classic "that recovery cylinder better be empty before you get to the next job" ine u get from your boss...

and i would probably lose alot of sleep at night riping off old ladies and ppl that couldent afford it when i know im doin em wrong

id rather work refridgeration anyday :)

[76olds]

take it in stride man

there are gonne be some problematic systems out there

we make mistakes we fix them

refrigeration is not a bad carreer if you can stay away from the small stuff

i made some good money on small equipment, but man the leaning over and hard to access stuff just gets tiresome



.
:ditto:I kind of disagree with staying away from the small stuff. Sure, it can drive you up a wall ,and bending and twisting to work on something gets old real fast, but personally, I am more comfortable with the small stuff because I am more famillar with it. Two things to remember: 1) people are either a-holes or they are not a-holes. 2): Any section of this field, either resi or commercial, refer, or havc, has it's pro's and con's. Just pick the area you are the most comfortable in and roll with it. You will have good days or bad days-period. Personally, I would rather go to a dive bar, find out I am the 6th person to look at the ice machine (the first 4 are at the bar, drunk, and ready to help) than do a/c work. Just pick the area that you are happy doing.



.[/QUOTE]

[bjones]

i would rather work refridgeration anyday, point being in my area i cant speak for the rest of the world or ,much because i have no feild experience only knowledge from others and business ethics.

anyway to the point most a/c companies expecially residential give incentives for u 2 sell change outs and install change outs, this makes u lean towards bad ethics like diagnoseing as compressor failure when it is something else like a contactor or a capacitor.Or the classic "that recovery cylinder better be empty before you get to the next job" ine u get from your boss...

and i would probably lose alot of sleep at night riping off old ladies and ppl that couldent afford it when i know im doin em wrong

id rather work refridgeration anyday :)

So, given the opportunity, you'll rip off old ladies. Good decision, stay in refrigeration. :rolleyes:

[Dowadudda]

Did the microns hold at 250 when you evacuated the system?

[smittyii]

Did the microns hold at 250 when you evacuated the system?

yeah it held vacuum, 28" of mercury though. i have been doing both hvac and refrigeration for 27 years now and i see the difference between reefer customers and a/c in black and white these days. a/c customers are glad to see you most of the time and pay upon completion. reefer customers are surly and always think you are ripping them off. oh and i won't miss chasing down $$$$ in my spare time, not to mention only two flavors of gas on the truck.:CU:

[Dowadudda]

hey I am just asking? cause. How do you really know with out doing so?

At 28 inches of mercury, you haven't even hit 760,000 microns.

I am just saying if you had pulled it down, to 250 to 500 microns, and it held, that you could be sure the rotolock fitting did indeed develop overnight.

The only true way to know your tight is using a micron gauge. And I do it almost every time so it's not like I don't practice what I preach cause I do.

[james122964]

Me, both the evaps in your 3 door undercounter are shot, leaking in multiple places on the end caps. I can replace both for X or you may want to consider getting a new unit. Manager, a new unit cost XXX, fix it for X, me okay, but the unit is old and other things may break at a unknown time period. Manager, heres the check, get er done. Me, parts ordered.

2 months later, Manager, I just spent X to get this thing fixed and now its broke again. Me, I warned you about that before you spent X. Manager, I thought you were kidding.
Compressor, needs replaced, it will be Z. Manager, if you add X and Z its only a little less than a new unit, me, thats what I said originally. Manager, well, I already got X into it may as well spend Z and get it fixed. Me, well the units still old and other stuff may break in a unknown time period, manager, heres the check, get er done, me OH Boy, here we go again.

Jim

[ga-hvac-tech]

I do not do refer work, however I use a micron gauge (YJ 69075) on every vacuum. After hundreds of resi change-outs, one notices a lot of subtle things n the micron gauge associated with the conditions of the install.

The ones I like are the ones that get down below 500 microns in 20-25 minutes, and are in the 250-275 range within an hour... and hold below 500 after the pump is off.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Me, both the evaps in your 3 door undercounter are shot, leaking in multiple places on the end caps. I can replace both for X or you may want to consider getting a new unit. Manager, a new unit cost XXX, fix it for X, me okay, but the unit is old and other things may break at a unknown time period. Manager, heres the check, get er done. Me, parts ordered.

2 months later, Manager, I just spent X to get this thing fixed and now its broke again. Me, I warned you about that before you spent X. Manager, I thought you were kidding.
Compressor, needs replaced, it will be Z. Manager, if you add X and Z its only a little less than a new unit, me, thats what I said originally. Manager, well, I already got X into it may as well spend Z and get it fixed. Me, well the units still old and other stuff may break in a unknown time period, manager, heres the check, get er done, me OH Boy, here we go again.

Jim

Some HO's treat their AC's like that... I try my best to get them to buy a new one... even whet their appetite with a tax credit system... but NooOOOooOOOooo... they want to nickle and dime themselves into the poor house. It is their $$$.

[VTP99]

Me, both the evaps in your 3 door undercounter are shot, leaking in multiple places on the end caps. I can replace both for X or you may want to consider getting a new unit. Manager, a new unit cost XXX, fix it for X, me okay, but the unit is old and other things may break at a unknown time period. Manager, heres the check, get er done. Me, parts ordered.

2 months later, Manager, I just spent X to get this thing fixed and now its broke again. Me, I warned you about that before you spent X. Manager, I thought you were kidding.
Compressor, needs replaced, it will be Z. Manager, if you add X and Z its only a little less than a new unit, me, thats what I said originally. Manager, well, I already got X into it may as well spend Z and get it fixed. Me, well the units still old and other stuff may break in a unknown time period, manager, heres the check, get er done, me OH Boy, here we go again.

Jim

That's a good one and so true.:yes:

[smittyii]

Me, both the evaps in your 3 door undercounter are shot, leaking in multiple places on the end caps. I can replace both for X or you may want to consider getting a new unit. Manager, a new unit cost XXX, fix it for X, me okay, but the unit is old and other things may break at a unknown time period. Manager, heres the check, get er done. Me, parts ordered.

2 months later, Manager, I just spent X to get this thing fixed and now its broke again. Me, I warned you about that before you spent X. Manager, I thought you were kidding.
Compressor, needs replaced, it will be Z. Manager, if you add X and Z its only a little less than a new unit, me, thats what I said originally. Manager, well, I already got X into it may as well spend Z and get it fixed. Me, well the units still old and other stuff may break in a unknown time period, manager, heres the check, get er done, me OH Boy, here we go again.

Jim
you got the check,thats awesome!

[smittyii]

dow you are a good hand, i started using micron testers on chillers back in the early 90's before they were small enough to tote in the tool bag. they are good tools. i think i am more concerned with the people i deal with on a daily basis. it seems to me over the years folks have become less enthused about our trade. that is why less people are interested in refrigeration as a career. i still get satisfaction in making machines hum like new, just no satisfaction in what it takes to satisfy people who don't want to be satisfied.usually they don't like to pay either. like i said earlier, they want it fixed yesterday,but pay you when they get around to it. sorta like property managers in a/c!

[Dowadudda]

smitty,

check this out for a second with an open mind.

I started out in this trade being a hack, cause of my own lack of internal focus. I think when were young and getting started, we all want that respect that we got our poop together. We want the world at large and our peers to think were one of them. Any prideful guy wants that. In this trade, we also want that seasoned appearance. It's how we measure each other up. Let's be honest.

I, like most, am motivated by money. And one thing in this business for is, if your good, you will make money. If the company you work for values you, and knows your good, they will pay.

But you know. I can tell you. There is a lot of guys, who want the respect, the pay and they are even ignorant to the fact they suck at this. And you can't tell them guys nothing. They think there hot to trot and if you were to call out their shortcomings, they become abrasive. We all know those guys.

It's so easy to get jaded in this business too.

So all that combined. Don't be so cocky that you did not do the job correctly. In my best guess with out the fact of a standing micron test on that little puppy of a cooler, you have no way of knowing whether it was an act of god, and the customer is simply being difficult or whether the day prior you did your job. Don't blame the customer for being upset about the fact he has dollars inside that cabinet, and now it's not working and he loses potential money.

So with out doing a micron test. You did not do that job right. So why blame the customer? It's not his fault. He paid you to fix it. And a micron test is an extremely important measurement for us guys.

I have been at this a long time, and I know how rotolock nylon seals can leak. But I also know, I can't guess and I have to either prove or disprove I am tight before I add gas and fire it up.

I don't preach what I don't practice. I have very few calls to go back due to a lack of refrigerant after I perform most repairs on the sealed system. That only improved when I began to do my microns test. And I have also found a bunch of times that had I not done the test, I would have surely been called back.

So just know, I aint raggin on ya to be a jagoff. I am trying to nudge ya to do it right. To help make you better, and more accurate and less bs. And you know what. It all become easier, and customers start to trust you and you start to develop a following. You start to distinguish yourself against the last 100 guys.

Customers in the refrigeration world, they scream for someone competent. Because for every one really sharp guy there is 100 jack legs who go in and profess they are the best and they always fall short. Customers are so apt to be negative and hesitant and are so sensitive because the 100 idiots before you.

That cooler is a pain in the ass to change out a pump. It's little. It's not a big deal for you. It's not a lot of coin. It's irrelevant in the grand picture of smitty's world. But you know what. It aint that to the customer. It's not a product cabinet to them even. To them, it's a box that makes money. And in their mind, it's important. Your skills are second. You represent to them a service that helps them make money. Don't forget that.

[Dowadudda]

if you had a problem with something at your home, say something structural in your child's second story bedroom. And it was a real brain teaser that has developed. Maybe the house was built wrong. I dunno. And you need to make the smart buying decision on how to address the situation. You have a few guys out to look at it. They all tell you how great they are. But their ideas on how to fix the problem are expensive. You decide to go with one of them you liked. And 2 days after he was finished. A heavy rain reveals he did not weather strip a seal on the window.

Well when he fixed the problem. He basically ripped the wall off your second story child's bedroom. Rebuilt it and it was a complicated job. But all he did was simply miss, by accident the weather strip on the window sill. Maybe it was one of his guys, who although he gets paid quite well, he missed it.

You'd be upset. Any one of us would. It's human nature. we would not think of how crazy and dynamic and magnificent he rebuilt the structure. We would focus on the 2 dollar rubber strip.

In refrigeration. They don't care how hard your job is. They figure if you say you can fix it, that you know what your doing. They expect nothing short of you have done this a long time and you know exactly what to do.

That is a given in their mind. They don't think about that so much. You'd darn well better know what to do.

The more important thing is. That customer is not making money because his machine is broken. He may have lost a cash investment in his product he had stored in their. He might be concerned that if someone bought product out of the box, and it's spoiled he could be sued for selling spoiled food which poisoned a person. He knows for every second, every day this thing is not working, he loses sales. His revenue is now gonna go down.

It's got nothing to do with you and whether your a good guy and how hard it was. One thing to always remember. If you do it right and fix it, the customer will vividly remember you. And now he has found "his guy". Your the guy that helps in get himself out of a bind. It's about money. It's not about fixing things. You are helping to make money. And so if you screw it up, it's just as important that you are now an evil to the customer. Your not worth it. As great as you were thought of when you fixed it, you can be though of even more so negative wise if you don't. It's about money.

[HvacStudentWTI]

So, given the opportunity, you'll rip off old ladies. Good decision, stay in refrigeration. :rolleyes:

lol, no i would lose my job before i did that:beat:

[james122964]

I do not do refer work, however I use a micron gauge (YJ 69075) on every vacuum. After hundreds of resi change-outs, one notices a lot of subtle things n the micron gauge associated with the conditions of the install.

The ones I like are the ones that get down below 500 microns in 20-25 minutes, and are in the 250-275 range within an hour... and hold below 500 after the pump is off.

I use the micron gauge check the moisture level, if it wont hold there is water evaporating. I use pressurized nitrogen for leak testing.

Jim

[Dowadudda]

I use the micron gauge check the moisture level, if it wont hold there is water evaporating. I use pressurized nitrogen for leak testing.

Jim

your serious or are you joking?

[james122964]

your serious or are you joking?

If you pull 250 microns and it keeps raising, you could have a leak, or you could have water in the system.

Now, you can have something that will leak, but is not leaking with only 14 psi from the atmosphere pushing on it. Now, if you put 100 psi nitrogen in there you have a much better chance of having it leak and your finding it, like a braze that has some flux clogging it.

Jim

[ga-hvac-tech]

If you pull 250 microns and it keeps raising, you could have a leak, or you could have water in the system.

Now, you can have something that will leak, but is not leaking with only 14 psi from the atmosphere pushing on it. Now, if you put 100 psi nitrogen in there you have a much better chance of having it leak and your finding it, like a braze that has some flux clogging it.

Jim

Just a couple of thoughts:

Can one get to 250 microns with a leak? You must have a really honcho pump... :) I tend to think if one gets well below 1000 microns and cannot hold it... there usually is refrigerant or water somewhere in the system that is evaporating off. Doing a triple evac (and maybe doing one stage with R-22 rather than N2) will get most of it out.

I generally use around 185-190 PSI N2 for leak testing. I have a Digi-Cool, which reads 1/10 of a PSI on the low side below 200. I will 'inflate' the system to pressure, and let it sit while I get the vacuum pump from the van and run a cord. If the pressure does not drop 1/10 of a PSI over the time it takes to get the pump AND run the cord... I think I am good to start the pump.

Thoughts?

[Dowadudda]

there is nothing wrong with nitrogen. Don't get me wrong. I use nitrogen. I like to use nitrogen on little pump changes out evap swaps on self contained stuff. I will blow it up to 150 psi, check my welds. I do this because. Even with a mirror and a flashlight and what may look like a good weld, you can have little bitty pinholes. If I am tight on my joints, I deflate and evacuate using amicron gauge to check. In the midst of using the nitrogen, your more or less sweeping the system and it helps with removal of moisture.

My whole point on this thread was to try and get guys to understand that if you start using best practices to make repairs, it's well worth it.

In this service call with a rotolock leaking. I myself would have like to have had the confidence that I was tight to start.

[VTP99]

I'm still trying to figure out how a new rotolock leaks unless the SAE nut was not tight. :rolleyes:

[cmclifton]

Just a couple of thoughts:

Can one get to 250 microns with a leak? You must have a really honcho pump... :) I tend to think if one gets well below 1000 microns and cannot hold it... there usually is refrigerant or water somewhere in the system that is evaporating off. Doing a triple evac (and maybe doing one stage with R-22 rather than N2) will get most of it out.

I generally use around 185-190 PSI N2 for leak testing. I have a Digi-Cool, which reads 1/10 of a PSI on the low side below 200. I will 'inflate' the system to pressure, and let it sit while I get the vacuum pump from the van and run a cord. If the pressure does not drop 1/10 of a PSI over the time it takes to get the pump AND run the cord... I think I am good to start the pump.

Thoughts?

I've seen 250 microns on a leaking system on a few occasions. In one case, it was the 10 cfm pump that allowed it to get all the way down there. This was a small -80c freezer with 1/3rd horse compressors. It had a fairly large leak and only got to the vacuum stage because I was new :playing:

In another case I was working on a larger -80 freezer and had a TINY pinhole in my silver braize joints on the oil separator. It would make it to under 50 microns, but wouldn't hold it. On a 150psi pressure test overnight, it lost about 2 psi. Took me a while to find that one.

Working with those ultra low temp freezers made me completely nutty about my pressure tests and evacuations. Everything gets pressurized to 150 for at least a half hour and everything needs to have the deepest vacuum I have time for. I don't even think about charging a unit at 500 microns. Usually I pull them down to under 300 and do a blank off test because I don't trust one leak check method. I want two.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I've seen 250 microns on a leaking system on a few occasions. In one case, it was the 10 cfm pump that allowed it to get all the way down there. This was a small -80c freezer with 1/3rd horse compressors. It had a fairly large leak and only got to the vacuum stage because I was new :playing:

In another case I was working on a larger -80 freezer and had a TINY pinhole in my silver braize joints on the oil separator. It would make it to under 50 microns, but wouldn't hold it. On a 150psi pressure test overnight, it lost about 2 psi. Took me a while to find that one.

Working with those ultra low temp freezers made me completely nutty about my pressure tests and evacuations. Everything gets pressurized to 150 for at least a half hour and everything needs to have the deepest vacuum I have time for. I don't even think about charging a unit at 500 microns. Usually I pull them down to under 300 and do a blank off test because I don't trust one leak check method. I want two.

This is interesting to me, I have not had the experience of pulling a really deep vacuum and still having a leak. But then resi equipment is not as sensitive I guess.

Questions:
What is the blank off test?
and
How does one find a pin-hole leak that small? The only thing I can think of is 'Big Blue'

[cmclifton]

This is interesting to me, I have not had the experience of pulling a really deep vacuum and still having a leak. But then resi equipment is not as sensitive I guess.

Questions:
What is the blank off test?
and
How does one find a pin-hole leak that small? The only thing I can think of is 'Big Blue'

Blank off test = pull your vacuum and then close off the vacuum hose on your manifold with your vacuum gauge on the system. Typical thermistor vacuum gauges will show the pressure rising for a short time after you close off the vac, but it should come back down. I close off my vacuum port and note what the gauge is reading, then walk away for 5 minutes. If it's still a nice deep vacuum when I come back, I'm confident that there's no leaks/moisture.

That pinhole was a real bastard to find. I grabbed a bottle of big blue and went over EVERY inch of piping in that system. It took several hours. I double and triple checked the fitting that was actually leaking, and it wasn't until I moved on that the big blue had been sitting on that fitting for long enough to bubble up. After that experience I started wire brushing every 56% silver joint after brazing and going over it with a magnifying glass looking for pinholes. I haven't had another one leak in 13 years. :cool:

[ga-hvac-tech]

Blank off test = pull your vacuum and then close off the vacuum hose on your manifold with your vacuum gauge on the system. Typical thermistor vacuum gauges will show the pressure rising for a short time after you close off the vac, but it should come back down. I close off my vacuum port and note what the gauge is reading, then walk away for 5 minutes. If it's still a nice deep vacuum when I come back, I'm confident that there's no leaks/moisture.

That pinhole was a real bastard to find. I grabbed a bottle of big blue and went over EVERY inch of piping in that system. It took several hours. I double and triple checked the fitting that was actually leaking, and it wasn't until I moved on that the big blue had been sitting on that fitting for long enough to bubble up. After that experience I started wire brushing every 56% silver joint after brazing and going over it with a magnifying glass looking for pinholes. I haven't had another one leak in 13 years. :cool:

THX for the reply. I usually do what you call 'blanking off' just to see what it does... and yes my YJ 69075 will go up a little and stabilize (sometimes come back down a little). I have generally written this off as a reaction to the system getting into 'balance' after the pump is removed. Might watch it more carefully in the future to see what I can learn.

Another question: I found that careful preparation of the joints to be brazed BEFORE brazing, reduced my leak issues to almost zero. Careful preparation generally means a tight fit, sand it bright, and wipe with a clean paper towel to get all the grit out. Brazing works a lot better for me with clean parts...

[Dowadudda]

I haven't had another one leak in 13 years. :cool:

so the point is using a micron gauge is pretty usefull

[jpsmith1cm]

so the point is using a micron gauge is pretty usefull

It's funny.

For many years, I never used a micron gauge. Was basically told that I didn't need one, they were too expensive, too delicate, too time consuming... All the BS excuses.

Now, I still haven't bought one for myself, but have a loaner that I'm using and they take no more time than trying to do it with your gauges and it's quite a rugged tool.

Don't have any 'save' stories from the micron gauge, yet, but it IS nice to know the system is clean and tight with a pressure test and a deep vacuum.