Manatowc bd0152a

[HvacStudentWTI]

im working on a manatowc ice machiene model bd0152a i cant find the service valves, im thinking about brazeing my discharge side service valves on,i have also looked for manuels everywhere for this model and have not came across any. anybody know where to find either?

[HvacStudentWTI]

this is a combination bin + ice maker unit built in i have leads from a maintinence man that their is a leak in the line, but they didint want to take the foam off the tubeing to leak check - free ice machines :)

[VTP99]

There should be two service valves Hi & Lo follow your piping from the compressor.

[HvacStudentWTI]

There should be to service valves Hi & Lo follow your piping from the compressor.

ive looked the whole system over and nothing, i know the locations their susposed 2 be in and i also know that some of these manatowc's dont have service valves im in class rite now so im keeping these msges brief, are u certain of this exact model that their are service valves?

[VTP99]

ive looked the whole system over and nothing, i know the locations their susposed 2 be in and i also know that some of these manatowc's dont have service valves im in class rite now so im keeping these msges brief, are u certain of this exact model that their are service valves?

I personally have never seen one without service valves. Of course i have not seen them all. I looked up that model on Manitowics web site. It says there are service valves for your model.

[icemeister]

The Owner's manual show the service valves as being located up front between the compressor and the condenser. See page 7.

http://www.manitowocice.com/docs/uploaded/mii/Installation_Use_and_Care_Manuals/B_Model/B%20Model%20UC/B0150_B0250_uc.pdf

Here's the service manual for the B-Series machines:

http://www.manitowocice.com/docs/uploaded/mii/Service%20Manuals/B_Model_Single_Evaporator_sm.pdf

[VTP99]

Icemiester your links did not come up. Maybe it's me having a bad computer day but i did finally get into Emersons OPI :)

[HvacStudentWTI]

The Owner's manual show the service valves as being located up front between the compressor and the condenser. See page 7.

http://www.manitowocice.com/docs/uploaded/mii/Installation_Use_and_Care_Manuals/B_Model/B%20Model%20UC/B0150_B0250_uc.pdf

Here's the service manual for the B-Series machines:

http://www.manitowocice.com/docs/uploaded/mii/Service%20Manuals/B_Model_Single_Evaporator_sm.pdf

thanks, ill have to take a side panel off and search their though ill have to reseal my insulation links working for me

[HvacStudentWTI]

this could be a situation where for some god forsaken reason the tech before me removed the service valves because their are none lol

[pdrake65]

Keep looking! On that model # it should be located between the compressor and the condensor ,elevated on a bracket. Let me see if I have that parts manual....

[pdrake65]

Hear you go. Page 4 ,Item 10 :

[HvacStudentWTI]

alright finnally found them their behind the condenser thx

[HvacStudentWTI]

is their any drop in or substitute with manipulateing ratios for R402-B im out and its 200$ for 13 lbs if u have any and want to donate contact withlacoochie technical institute HVAC department

[pdrake65]

is their any drop in or substitute with manipulateing ratios for R402-B im out and its 200$ for 13 lbs if u have any and want to donate contact withlacoochie technical institute HVAC department

HP81 (R402B) IS the drop-in replacement for R502. Used in ice machines of that time for the higher discharge temp. to achieve the harvest. Maybe someone in your area has some to donate.Are you saying you are low on refrigerant? How did you come to that conclusion?

[HvacStudentWTI]

theirs 0 charge in the unit , when i was opening the service valve i noticed some refridgerant leaked out the true service valve it was not on tight enough and had no cap on it for 3 years, still i hooked my gauges up 0 psi, then hooked vacume pump up , after 20-30 min it held a vaccume at 540 and stayed their after i closed gages turned off pump waited 5 min turned pump on and opened gauges i also pumped with nitrogen and bubble leak checked to be shure, im not on the job so im not in a hurry, but we used the last of our 402-b on other ice machienes im ready to charge the unit and move onto some more trouble shooting , cleaning ect

i am looking for the 402-b localy and mite have someone wanting to donate but its not cheap

[HvacStudentWTI]

Does anybody know if i can use 414-B hotshot as a replacement?

[twosticks]

Does anybody know if i can use 414-B hotshot as a replacement?

Hot Shot is a replacement for R-12. Can't use for R-502.

[VTP99]

Does anybody know if i can use 414-B hotshot as a replacement?

If your going to use Icor's brand i would suggest using One Shot (R422c) there R502 replacement.

[HvacStudentWTI]

hot shot is a drop-in for many different types of refridgerant their still figureing it out it even says on new pt charts it can be swapped with, i actually just watched a video on hot shot u can swap it with MOST refridgerants but im wondering if they can be used as a replacement for 402-B i know all of the known drop ins for hotshot except i have never herd of anybody useing it on 402-B systems, dont mean it will not work theirs people here that swear u can use it as a drop in for 402-B but i need 2 be certain.

Replaces R-12, R-134a, R-401A, R-401B, R-409A, R-416A, R-420A, and R-500.
Hot Shot is the best R-12 replacement on the market—period. Here’s why.

all drop ins for hotshot strait off the ICOR site but their is other refridgerants they are finding out it can be swapped out for usually adding more because of the low discharge pressure of hotshot

[icemeister]

I have used HP80 (R402A) and FX-10 (R408A), both with good results in the B-Series HP81 machines. They're less money than HP81 and more readily available.

Also, you may want to look into DuPont's Isceon MO79 (R422A) which is an HFC replacement for R502, R402A and R408A. Here's a past thread which discusses using it as a replacement for HP81 as well:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=267242

[HvacStudentWTI]

If your going to use Icor's brand i would suggest using One Shot there R502 replacement.

thanks i vertified that with icor it is the drop in

[HvacStudentWTI]

I have used HP80 (R402A) and FX-10 (R408A), both with good results in the B-Series HP81 machines. They're less money than HP81 and more readily available.

Also, you may want to look into DuPont's Isceon MO79 (R422A) which is an HFC replacement for R502, R402A and R408A. Here's a past thread which discusses using it as a replacement for HP81 as well:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=267242

i have plenty of 402-A ill give that a shot and check out R422A on future ice machienes i want to get into commercial refridgeration but im still learning

[VTP99]

I think your going to make a great tech. Learn as much as you can and never stop learning.;)

[pdrake65]

I have used HP80 (R402A) and FX-10 (R408A), both with good results in the B-Series HP81 machines. They're less money than HP81 and more readily available.

Also, you may want to look into DuPont's Isceon MO79 (R422A) which is an HFC replacement for R502, R402A and R408A. Here's a past thread which discusses using it as a replacement for HP81 as well:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=267242

How is the harvest with the HP80? I believe the disharge temp is a bit lower than HP81.

[icemeister]

How is the harvest with the HP80? I believe the disharge temp is a bit lower than HP81.

I tried it in a couple of B-Machines at the shop and found the harvest wasn't quite as fast as with the HP81, but still well within limits...all else being equal.

I recovered the existing HP81, evacuated and recharged with HP80. As I recall the harvest went from like 75 seconds to about 100 seconds.

I haven't done a similar comparison using R408A, but I would guess it would fall somewhere in between because R408A has a slightly higher discharge temperature than HP80.

Actually, I'd really like to try some of that Iseceon MO79 (R422A) that M&H Leasing has been using in his old Manitowocs.

[VTP99]

I tried it in a couple of B-Machines at the shop and found the harvest wasn't quite as fast as with the HP81, but still well within limits...all else being equal.

I recovered the existing HP81, evacuated and recharged with HP80. As I recall the harvest went from like 75 seconds to about 100 seconds.

I haven't done a similar comparison using R408A, but I would guess it would fall somewhere in between because R408A has a slightly higher discharge temperature than HP80.

Actually, I'd really like to try some of that Iseceon MO79 (R422A) that M&H Leasing has been using in his old Manitowocs.
Did not Icor have the only R422 back whenever and now there is a b & c. If i remember correctly they made R422a and no one else did. I believe one of Icor's salesmen told me Dupont jumped on board and started making it. After that there designation went from a to c .:whistle:

[pdrake65]

I tried it in a couple of B-Machines at the shop and found the harvest wasn't quite as fast as with the HP81, but still well within limits...all else being equal.

I recovered the existing HP81, evacuated and recharged with HP80. As I recall the harvest went from like 75 seconds to about 100 seconds.

I haven't done a similar comparison using R408A, but I would guess it would fall somewhere in between because R408A has a slightly higher discharge temperature than HP80.

Actually, I'd really like to try some of that Iseceon MO79 (R422A) that M&H Leasing has been using in his old Manitowocs.

Still well within range....the reason why I asked is because we are running low on HP81 and have only 4 ice machines to deal with that use this....plenty of HP80 because of walk-ins. I still have half a jug of 502.:whistle:

[HvacStudentWTI]

I think your going to make a great tech. Learn as much as you can and never stop learning.;)

thanks man, i try 2 keep my humility about me and not get overconfident always going 2 be things out their i dont know , so ill always be learning i love this trade so far and dont think thats going to change

[pdrake65]

theirs 0 charge in the unit , when i was opening the service valve i noticed some refridgerant leaked out the true service valve it was not on tight enough and had no cap on it for 3 years, still i hooked my gauges up 0 psi, then hooked vacume pump up , after 20-30 min it held a vaccume at 540 and stayed their after i closed gages turned off pump waited 5 min turned pump on and opened gauges i also pumped with nitrogen and bubble leak checked to be shure, im not on the job so im not in a hurry, but we used the last of our 402-b on other ice machienes im ready to charge the unit and move onto some more trouble shooting , cleaning ect

i am looking for the 402-b localy and mite have someone wanting to donate but its not cheap

Just a quick question...did you do your bubble check with your guages off to check the service valves for leaks?

[HvacStudentWTI]

Just a quick question...did you do your bubble check with your guages off to check the service valves for leaks?

yes i closed gauges, but i found the leak earlier when i opened the true service i put a cap down hard (their was none their when i got it) stopped the leak

now i have 2 of these units working i got some 402-B after i recovered 20 lbs of R-22 for the class today :) im still trying 2 get the times dead nuts on them im shooting for at least 2 dumps an hour i think that its only capable of that because i havent had a full ice cycle under 22 ,min thats where i am on both units, charge everything is good, what they both really needed more than anything was a good cleaning because i got almost full sediment on the condensate line (white sticky liquid) on the discharge did 2 cleaning cycles on both units then my times started going down and i began working on the ice thickness sensor which im still playing around with but getting closer to desired results.

thanks for all the help guys ill probably have more down the line when the instructor is busy :)

:payattention:

[pdrake65]

yes i closed gauges, but i found the leak earlier when i opened the true service i put a cap down hard (their was none their when i got it) stopped the leak

now i have 2 of these units working i got some 402-B after i recovered 20 lbs of R-22 for the class today :) im still trying 2 get the times dead nuts on them im shooting for at least 2 dumps an hour i think that its only capable of that because i havent had a full ice cycle under 22 ,min thats where i am on both units, charge everything is good, what they both really needed more than anything was a good cleaning because i got almost full sediment on the condensate line (white sticky liquid) on the discharge did 2 cleaning cycles on both units then my times started going down and i began working on the ice thickness sensor which im still playing around with but getting closer to desired results.

thanks for all the help guys ill probably have more down the line when the instructor is busy :)

:payattention:

So the service valve is still leaking. You merely capped it to stop the leak. It would be the proper method to repair or replace the valve. Another tech that works on that machine might not be aware of this and not tighten down the cap well enough. Your ice production is low. Do you know how to do an ice production check?

[pdrake65]

Correction...missed the 22 minutes part of your post. Seems okay.

[HvacStudentWTI]

ive pulled a vaccume 6 times on unit held at 450! ill be monitoring unit to check for leaks i dont have a true-service valve to replace it with and the ice makers are mine im selling one the one w/o leaking true service and giveing away other which is in better condition for my step dad, the units seem 2 not be leaking if their are any leaks they are really small it took years for them 2 lose their charge and im pretty certain it was the lack of a cap on a service valve and the service valve was not closed tightly but i could be wrong only time will tell, and im really just developing my "tech sense" i dont have 100% confidence on anything yet because of lack of experience so i make shure im positive before i make any actions that way i learn it right the first time.

[pdrake65]

ive pulled a vaccume 6 times on unit held at 450! ill be monitoring unit to check for leaks i dont have a true-service valve to replace it with and the ice makers are mine im selling one the one w/o leaking true service and giveing away other which is in better condition for my step dad, the units seem 2 not be leaking if their are any leaks they are really small it took years for them 2 lose their charge and im pretty certain it was the lack of a cap on a service valve and the service valve was not closed tightly but i could be wrong only time will tell, and im really just developing my "tech sense" i dont have 100% confidence on anything yet because of lack of experience so i make shure im positive before i make any actions that way i learn it right the first time.

First off, I'm not trying to give you a hard time ,just trying to teach you something. I think with your passion you will be a great tech and I can tell that you take pride in your work. Service valve caps are meant to keep stuff out of the valve, not keep the refrigerant from escaping. Schrader valve caps do this as well as keep the valve from being depresssed. That is the way they are meant to work. If you keep the valve as is I would suggest putting some thread lock on it and mark the valve as a leaker....just in case someone else ends up with it. :yes:

[VTP99]

First off, I'm not trying to give you a hard time ,just trying to teach you something. I think with your passion you will be a great tech and I can tell that you take pride in your work. Service valve caps are meant to keep stuff out of the valve, not keep the refrigerant from escaping. Schrader valve caps do this as well as keep the valve from being depresssed. That is the way they are meant to work. If you keep the valve as is I would suggest putting some thread lock on it and mark the valve as a leaker....just in case someone else ends up with it. :yes:

I agree 100% and i can not tell you how many times i have read on here were tech's think otherwise. I like to think of them as dust caps. Also very necessary on suction service valves with the stem pointing down.

[HvacStudentWTI]

i decided 2 keep the units myself im not shure but i think the refridgerant leaked because the true service was not totaly closed but not certain i know if i have more problems i will replace it, if it was a service job i already would have

but its still a mystery to me really if their is a leak somewhere its a small one