Blower door test and energy audit question

[kirbinster]

I've had some problems with not being able to fully cool the third level in my home. Many here commented that a blower door test should have been run. I just got a letter in the mail offering an energy audit which includes a blower door test and ifrared camera scans of the house. It sounds fairly thorough as they said it takes between 3 to 4 hours to do the entire study. They normally charge $149 to do this, but with the coupon they send me the cost is only $49 bucks. Seems to good to be true. Obviously they want me to use them to do any improvements they think are needed, but I am under no obligation and get to keep the full report no matter what I decide to do or not do. The outfit is Wellhome.com.

I would appreciate if anyone could offer any advice on things I should make sure they do so that I get maximum value out of this exercise.

[Shophound]

It's been my experience that when my "it seems too good to be true" alarm goes off, to not ignore it.

Getting into energy auditing work is not cheap. Cost of blower door, duct blaster, IR camera, training, certification, etc...it all adds up! So I'm gonna go around after that level of investment and practically give away my knowledge and tool wear and tear for 50 bucks a pop? I don't think so.

I think it is as you suspect...a loss-leader to get their foot in the door to sell you much more expensive (and possibly overpriced to recover the audit cost...provided it's worth anything at all) stuff that you may or may not need.

IMO, the best audit is from someone who has no more at stake than giving you the best factual report on your home's condition, period. He/she doesn't have rolls of insulation next to the blower door in the truck, in other words.

[beenthere]

Old saying.

If it seems to good to be true. Probably is.

You'll probably get a hard core sales pitch for them to do improvements. And then you'll get hit with the high price of their work.

[kirbinster]

I agree it is a loss leader and their work is probably very expensive. But they are a national outfit that does this in huge volume. When I called the other day the earliest they could do it was Sept 8th. So, my thought it that they do a huge volume in the hopes of getting work that is probably very expensive. But if they do so much I think they probably know what they are doing and if they say they will take 3 to 4 hours it has to be a fair amount of work. They said they will send me the report and then sit down with me to present (sell) their suggestions.

[beenthere]

Well. For 50 bucks and 6 to 9 hours of your time. Go ahead, and see what they say.

But have yourself prepared for a good closing salesmen to give you the results and recommendations.

[kirbinster]

Well. For 50 bucks and 6 to 9 hours of your time. Go ahead, and see what they say.

But have yourself prepared for a good closing salesmen to give you the results and recommendations.

There big selling point will undoubtedly be the eligibility for upto $1,500 in Federal tax credits - I will easily shoot that down when I explain I can't get that as I already got the max on my HVAC system.

All of that not withstanding, what if anything should I be certain they measure. I am not familiar with this test at all.

[Mr Bill]

It sounds fairly thorough as they said it takes between 3 to 4 hours to do the entire study. They normally charge $149 to do this, but with the coupon they send me the cost is only $49 bucks. Seems to good to be true. Obviously they want me to use them to do any improvements they think are needed, but I am under no obligation and get to keep the full report no matter what I decide to do or not do. The outfit is Wellhome.com.

O that $49.00 bucks is to get across your threshold, trust me they are making money, read this maybe it will shed a little more light.

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/training/qa-with-larry-laseter-of-wellhome.aspx

[classical]

There big selling point will undoubtedly be the eligibility for upto $1,500 in Federal tax credits - I will easily shoot that down when I explain I can't get that as I already got the max on my HVAC system.

All of that not withstanding, what if anything should I be certain they measure. I am not familiar with this test at all.

Since none of you know anything about Wellhome let me enlighten you as I am the License holder and production manager in Houston for Wellhome.

The offer is an introductory offer and yes we do a full hour’s long assessment of your home and provide a very detailed evaluation and recommendations package. We perform all repairs and have full control of the process, we do not simply charge a large fee then let you find contractors (that do not understand the problems) to perform the needed repairs.

All Wellhome advisors, managers and production managers are very well trained in building science and are fully BPI certified. We have a small fortune invested in each person that comes to your home in training and equipment as all tools are state of art. Yes repairs are expensive as is anything worthwhile, you will be offered several packages that will address the varying issues found in your home and you will be given a written guarantee of energy of energy savings for each package.

You will not be pressured to do anything that is the company policy, that does not mean you will not be asked to choose a package, but they have been asked into your home to find and address any issues you have so that should be expected.

We have been successful in Houston and what we do works and improve the homes efficiency and comfort. If what we do did not work I would not have closed down my company to join Wellhome. I am proud to be associated with them and proud to have my future tied to this company. The level of knowledge and commitment from the top to bottom of Wellhome is phenomenal as is the pure commitment to quality.

Where are you located?

[Mr Bill]

Al, I don't see were anyone said anything bad about Wellhome, why all the fuss? the OP was just inquiring about the program they offer is all I read, unless you read more into it that I did. Lots of things seem to good to be true, but that don't mean there not true.

[classical]

Double post!

[Mr Bill]

Every company on earth is "supposed" to make $$$$ if not they will not be in business long. My remark/link was to the OP, to let him know they are making $$$$ and I directed him to read how it works, just in case you read more into what "I" personally posted. I guess I could have left out the threshold buster, but I call any company that, even the vacuum cleaner salesman, when the normal price is $1000.00 and they have a 29.50 special, no harm intended. :D

[pstu]

I wonder if there is an opportunity for Wellhome to displace SRE as the business partner of Green Mountain Energy.

Best wishes -- Pstu

[udarrell]

I looked briefly at the HomeWell website, & I can imagine huge advantages for getting on the ground-floor in these energy saving initiatives.

The main thing is that these companies be totally honest & not take advantage of their customer/prospects... in that context, it can be a profitable equation for everyone.

If HomeStar & GoldStar pass, there will be up to $8,000 dollars on 50% of the energy reduction work & equipment - up to $16,000.

I heard the federal money in the above programs will, at the most, probably only last 2 years.

Unless those that are certified are in your area you will have no opportunity to get that money for energy saving improvements... - Darrell

[Mr Bill]

I heard the federal money in the above programs will, at the most, probably only last 2 years. Darrell

Well that blows, I was just thinking about getting into this business, but the Gove ment is good at starting intensives, and then closing the doors asap.:(

[classical]

I looked briefly at the HomeWell website, & I can imagine huge advantages for getting on the ground-floor in these energy saving initiatives.

The main thing is that these companies be totally honest & not take advantage of their customer/prospects... in that context, it can be a profitable equation for everyone.

If HomeStar & GoldStar pass, there will be up to $8,000 dollars on 50% of the energy reduction work & equipment - up to $16,000.

I heard the federal money in the above programs will, at the most, probably only last 2 years.

Unless those that are certified are in your area you will have no opportunity to get that money for energy saving improvements... - Darrell

Homestar and Goldstar are not separate programs; Homestar has two levels Silverstar and Goldstar. Silverstar money will be available to anyone and is limited to I think 2K and the work can be done by a HO or a contractor. Goldstar has an 8K limit and the work must be performed by a BPI certified contractor.

Regardless of government incentives or not the work and benefits of the work is still viable and stands by its self. We are selling jobs every day and there is no incentive program currently available and the tax credit program may or may not apply to a customer depending on what work they have already had performed.

If you have to rely on government subsidies to make your work attractive to your customer you are not understanding of the value of the work.

Aside from incentives from the feds if the Cap & Trade bill goes through much of what we are talking about will be mandated upgrades on a home before it can be sold. So the need for knowledgeable and qualified contractors will be needed.

[Mr Bill]

Aside from incentives from the feds if the Cap & Trade bill goes through much of what we are talking about will be mandated upgrades on a home before it can be sold. So the need for knowledgeable and qualified contractors will be needed.

And if this does happen, you think the Real Estate market is bad now, it will drop like a lead balloon, "most" folks will probably just keep their homes vs having to spend $$$$ to correct whats needed to sell. One thing I know for sure, people don't like Government pushing them around, and will rebel, it's bad enough what they have done to our schools, and etc. just wait until they get control over our homes and you being able to sell "your" home.

[Gunnery Sergeant Hartman]

Sounds like the OP is interested in getting his $49 audit and working these guys over with no intentions of having them do any of the work.

[kirbinster]

Not true, if they can provide the service (if needed) at a comptetive price then I have no problem working with them. But I will check around to make sure they are competitive. I am not going to work with them if their prices turn out to be way over market price.

[Mr Bill]

Not true, if they can provide the service (if needed) at a comptetive price then I have no problem working with them. But I will check around to make sure they are competitive. I am not going to work with them if their prices turn out to be way over market price.

And you know what? that's fair enough in my world. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/yes.gif

[dan sw fl]

O that $49.00 bucks is to get across your threshold, trust me they are making money, read this maybe it will shed a little more light.

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/training/qa-with-larry-laseter-of-wellhome.aspx

Was Wellhome established about the time ObamaCare came along?

x

:eek2:

x

[Mr Bill]

Was Wellhome established about the time ObamaCare came along?

x

:eek2:

x

O man, you done started something now. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l286/mrbillpro/watchdrama8jm.gif

[energy_rater_La]

I am not going to work with them if their prices turn out to be way over market price.


fair enough, but who will you use to compare their prices to?
the hvac installer's bid..if you can get one..to mastic seal ductwork?
joe down the street with no expertiese, no insurance and not a clue
as to how to address the house issues?
understand that sealing ductwork and building envelope openings
is often a labor intensive job in a hot cramped dirty attic. it isn't
a $15 and hour job. Not for anyone who has a clue as to where and how
to do the sealing.

the reduction on the price of the audit is based on getting the job.
nothing wrong with that. too bad the state program I work with doesn't
allow us to do the work...but who better to know where the problems
are, how to seal them long term and then..hey test again to make sure
that the leakage is sealed?
some one once wrote on this fourm.
who takes their car to one mechanic and another to fix it?

if I do a diagnostic on a home (which in essence is the same service offered in
your post) I usually bid the job. and get it because I know where and how to
do the sealing work.
I've been down the road of showing the homeowner or their 'repair' person
but when I come back and test..the homeowner has usually wasted their time
or money. let the folks who know how do..

this is pretty impressive (from posted link)
You guarantee energy savings for the first year. Isn’t that a little risky? Is anyone else doing that?

how do y'all do that classical?
energy savings based on Remrate software of house prior and post repairs?

best of luck op

[classical]

I am not going to work with them if their prices turn out to be way over market price.


fair enough, but who will you use to compare their prices to?
the hvac installer's bid..if you can get one..to mastic seal ductwork?
joe down the street with no expertiese, no insurance and not a clue
as to how to address the house issues?
understand that sealing ductwork and building envelope openings
is often a labor intensive job in a hot cramped dirty attic. it isn't
a $15 and hour job. Not for anyone who has a clue as to where and how
to do the sealing.

the reduction on the price of the audit is based on getting the job.
nothing wrong with that. too bad the state program I work with doesn't
allow us to do the work...but who better to know where the problems
are, how to seal them long term and then..hey test again to make sure
that the leakage is sealed?
some one once wrote on this fourm.
who takes their car to one mechanic and another to fix it?

if I do a diagnostic on a home (which in essence is the same service offered in
your post) I usually bid the job. and get it because I know where and how to
do the sealing work.
I've been down the road of showing the homeowner or their 'repair' person
but when I come back and test..the homeowner has usually wasted their time
or money. let the folks who know how do..

this is pretty impressive (from posted link)
You guarantee energy savings for the first year. Isn’t that a little risky? Is anyone else doing that?

how do y'all do that classical?
energy savings based on Remrate software of house prior and post repairs?

best of luck op

Very well stated Rater and yes we do use a software program and savings are based on past utility useage and expected savings based on the level of work performed and validation of work performed.

[energy_rater_La]

so..when will y'all open up in La??
hint hint....

[Shophound]

Well, I learned some stuff about Wellhome, and now think my earlier marks may have been premature.

[davidr]

Very well stated Rater and yes we do use a software program and savings are based on past utility useage and expected savings based on the level of work performed and validation of work performed.

What software are you guys using Al?

[kirbinster]

Well I got my report today from Wellhome, and I was not very impressed. It was loaded with factual errors about my house. They had the square footage wrong by a factor of about 25%. If they can't get that, how am I supposed to trust the more technical stuff? They presented me a whole bunch of suggestions for work they wanted to do, but they did not quantify and savings. Their sales pitch is that they will show you the payback on any recommendations and guarantee the first years savings. How can they do that if they don't calculate it. I sent them packing with instructions to fix the errors, quantify the savings and get back with me so I can evaluate if any of this makes economic sense.

[energy_rater_La]

kirbinster,
have you read the thread started by Cody?
same location as yours..same level of service.
new guys imo with the need to get some in the field experience.

one of our guys here is excellent at his investment in wellhome.

best of luck.

[kirbinster]

No I have not, could you give me a link, I could not find it on searching for user name Cody.

[commerce48]

No I have not, could you give me a link, I could not find it on searching for user name Cody.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=642001

[udarrell]

Homestar and Goldstar are not separate programs; Homestar has two levels Silverstar and Goldstar. Silverstar money will be available to anyone and is limited to I think 2K and the work can be done by a HO or a contractor. Goldstar has an 8K limit and the work must be performed by a BPI certified contractor.

Regardless of government incentives or not the work and benefits of the work is still viable and stands by its self. We are selling jobs every day and there is no incentive program currently available and the tax credit program may or may not apply to a customer depending on what work they have already had performed.

If you have to rely on government subsidies to make your work attractive to your customer you are not understanding of the value of the work.

Aside from incentives from the feds if the Cap & Trade bill goes through much of what we are talking about will be mandated upgrades on a home before it can be sold. So the need for knowledgeable and qualified contractors will be needed.
IMO, after further study of the Gold Star program, it may have very limited use due to the certification & training qualification conditions.

States may need to start programs like Florida & CA.

All those accreditation & certification conditions by one NE company, BPI, & the initial & annual renewal qualifying costs from $1,500 to $7,500 and up, will eliminate too many smaller H-VAC companies from participating.

You a a few others will profit from the program however, what about all those potential customers & contractors that want to participate but can't get over all the qualifying hurtles. Potential customers that cannot find any qualified local contractors will be very unhappy campers!

They should provide very low cost Training & Certification in all local communities.

Your viewpoint(s)...?

[classical]

IMO, after further study of the Gold Star program, it may have very limited use due to the certification & training qualification conditions.

States may need to start programs like Florida & CA.

All those accreditation & certification conditions by one NE company, BPI, & the initial & annual renewal qualifying costs from $1,500 to $7,500 and up, will eliminate too many smaller H-VAC companies from participating.

You a a few others will profit from the program however, what about all those potential customers & contractors that want to participate but can't get over all the qualifying hurtles. Potential customers that cannot find any qualified local contractors will be very unhappy campers!

They should provide very low cost Training & Certification in all local communities.

Your viewpoint(s)...?

I think they should make the testing and certification process more difficult and stringent not more less. For year we have all decried laxity of federal, state and local code enforcement that allows ill trained and low quality contractors to work in our industry. Anything that raises the bar I am in favors off so we can charge what we are worth which will allow us to afford the requisite training and tools to provide a superior product to our customers.

You should also understand BPI is not just or even primarily about HVAC but about the home as a system that also includes HVAC.
In Houston we have no rebate or incentive program except the federal tax credit and I think what we do is very viable.
If you want to get the training and acquire the skills and perform the repairs at lower cost more power to you.
One thing to remember about BPI certification is their ability to perform audits on any certified contractor, they can fly in to your town walk in your door pull any records on any home they wish go out and perform an evaluation and your better match their report or you will lose your accreditation. No other program offers that oversight and that set BPI apart from RESNET and other similar programs. This all cost money so hence the fees and frequent recertification will maintain the quality of those in the field performing the work.

BPI is in the process of strengthening the testing procedures and the quality of the qualification and training personnel.

[Codyt]

udarrell, I suspect we will find out by analogy to the smaller contractors and the lead paint regs now in effect. I doubt we homeowners will be able to find contractors unless they are willing to risk major fines for smaller jobs.

[Codyt]

I think they should make the testing and certification process more difficult and stringent not more less. For year we have all decried laxity of federal, state and local code enforcement that allows ill trained and low quality contractors to work in our industry. Anything that raises the bar I am in favors off so we can charge what we are worth which will allow us to afford the requisite training and tools to provide a superior product to our customers.

You should also understand BPI is not just or even primarily about HVAC but about the home as a system that also includes HVAC.
In Houston we have no rebate or incentive program except the federal tax credit and I think what we do is very viable.
If you want to get the training and acquire the skills and perform the repairs at lower cost more power to you.
One thing to remember about BPI certification is their ability to perform audits on any certified contractor, they can fly in to your town walk in your door pull any records on any home they wish go out and perform an evaluation and your better match their report or you will lose your accreditation. No other program offers that oversight and that set BPI apart from RESNET and other similar programs. This all cost money so hence the fees and frequent recertification will maintain the quality of those in the field performing the work.

BPI is in the process of strengthening the testing procedures and the quality of the qualification and training personnel.

Someone, please, please tell me these monstrous posts are part of a nightmare!

Now we see where Wellhome is going. This is disgusting. And I may forever after be in a state data base based on this company's audits, subject to its gestapo raids! Who really started BPI certification? BP Oil?

[udarrell]

I think they should make the testing and certification process more difficult and stringent not more less. I Agree
For years we have all decried laxity of federal, state and local code enforcement that allows ill trained and low quality contractors to work in our industry.
Anything that raises the bar I am in favors off so we can charge what we are worth which will allow us to afford the requisite training and tools to provide a superior product to our customers.

You should also understand BPI is not just or even primarily about HVAC but about the home as a system that also includes HVAC. Right
In Houston we have no rebate or incentive program except the federal tax credit and I think what we do is very viable.
If you want to get the training and acquire the skills and perform the repairs at lower cost more power to you.
One thing to remember about BPI certification is their ability to perform audits on any certified contractor, they can fly in to your town walk in your door pull any records on any home they wish go out and perform an evaluation and your better match their report or you will lose your accreditation. No other program offers that oversight and that set BPI apart from RESNET and other similar programs. This all cost money so hence the fees and frequent recertification will maintain the quality of those in the field performing the work. IMO, H-VAC consumers don't have the money for increased costs.

BPI is in the process of strengthening the testing procedures and the quality of the qualification and training personnel. That's good, but IMO there needs to be many more sources.
Power companies & state government entities ought to step forward to help train & monitor the quality of the work.

The BPI fees, IMO, are too high. BPI also has a near monopoly on training, certification & monitoring, many community college ought to institute that certification training curriculum. There ought to be trained monitors in every community.

We must have high performance standards set, to be met, & monitored by perhaps local trained H-VAC permit inspectors. IMO, BPI doesn't have, & won't have, the personnel capacity to do sufficient amounts of monitoring.

IMO, We need to keep the costs of the new quality performance programs as low as possible. What you'll say... :anyone:

[classical]

Someone, please, please tell me these monstrous posts are part of a nightmare!

Now we see where Wellhome is going. This is disgusting. And I may forever after be in a state data base based on this company's audits, subject to its gestapo raids! Who really started BPI certification? BP Oil?

You have a very vivid imagination do you also believe in black helicopters coming in the night.
Wellhome is a business that provides a service we are not part of or affiliated with the government local, state or federal. We keep records first because all trade businesses must keep their service records for I believe three years.

BPI was formed years ago with the intention of providing a means for improving the quality comfort and efficiency of existing homes.

BPI is trying to improve the quality and oversight of contractors. The purpose of BPI being able to perform audits is to maintain a higher standard of quality of its accredited contractors, nothing sinister or conspiratorial.

I wonder cody are you an actual person that had a Wellhome assessment a disgruntled ex employee or something else.

[Brian GC]

If what we do did not work I would not have closed down my company to join Wellhome.

What is foremost “to work” with a new company is profit. It would be foolish not to suspect you also saw more profit with Wellhome than your previous business…profits that are acquired from government funds.

IMO, you should stick to responding to Cody’s points rather than gaffing her.

[classical]

Power companies & state government entities ought to step forward to help train & monitor the quality of the work.

The BPI fees, IMO, are too high. BPI also has a near monopoly on training, certification & monitoring, many community college ought to institute that certification training curriculum. There ought to be trained monitors in every community.

We must have high performance standards set, to be met, & monitored by perhaps local trained H-VAC permit inspectors. IMO, BPI doesn't have, & won't have, the personnel capacity to do sufficient amounts of monitoring.

IMO, We need to keep the costs of the new quality performance programs as low as possible. What you'll say... :anyone:

Why do you want the government involved in this, private business should stay private? BPI is not involved except to provide quality control and validation of work performed so the government does not waste its money on the Goldstar rebates.

Do you think that the government is getting its money’s worth with the current tax credits; there is no oversight or proof of performance required. You know as well as I do just because an HVAC system is rated 16 SEER 13 EER and is a 4-ton does not mean it performs to those levels. There are a few of us that install properly using correct procedures and verify delivered performance but most do not. You also know that that tax credit system installed poorly probably will underperform from the system it replaced.

Well the same is true of windows, insulation and sir tightening.

The government does not have the people or the wherewithal to provide the oversight protection necessary. Think about it, how good are city inspectors and how much real power do they have. BPI or another private certifier has much greater power to control their contractors. If they check on a contractor and find they have not performed their testing or work to required levels BPI can pull their accreditation on the spot, no review or trial necessary. That is a powerful incentive for a contractor to stay on top of their game.

Beside that there are government programs available for low income households that you can go a part of if that is what you want, I am not interested in them, however our parent company is involved with several different divisions.

[classical]

What is foremost “to work” with a new company is profit. It would be foolish not to suspect you also saw more profit with Wellhome than your previous business…profits that are acquired from government funds.

IMO, you should stick to responding to Cody’s points rather than gaffing her.

Actually so far I make less than I was from my company, but the opportunity to do better work is with Wellhome. As to our profit coming from the government you do not know what you are speaking to. The Homestar program has not passed and may never pass and personally I am fine with that. In Houston we have no government or industry rebates other than the $1,500.00 tax credits which do not amount to much.

I responded to cody male or female I do know or care, but when they think what we do is part of some grand scheme to track their home to prevent them from selling it that is just a little farfetched.

I answered the best I could about their concerns having not been on the job and seeing the report or talking to the principals involved. I can talk about procedures and protocols within the company. I have no authority or oversight over another branch. The best I could offer is contact the Branch Manager and voice their concern which is the same basic advice I would give in most situations. As with any thread on this site there are always two sides to the story and we are only hearing one side.

[Codyt]

A respected professional member here was nice enough to calculate an energy savings for me from the oil to gas conversion alone - at least 40%.

On the same information, Wellhome has informed me that it cannot calculate my energy savings for the conversion. Hmmm. Might that be because I want the work done by a BPI certified contractor who is NOT one of Wellhome's captives?

I'm sure for a pretty penny Wellhome will have a package I can buy from them to do air sealing/ducts/insulation, but won't be allowed to do certain of the work I am capable of. That is, I can do the work but should not expect to pass their retest percentages.

It's sales, supported by government limited competition of the HVAC/home energy contractor work.

Wellhome is the kudzu of the HVAC industry.

The professionals need to pay attention to udarrell.

[energy_rater_La]

two sides to every story
classical was very successful in his hvac business
saw that there was a whole house/house as a system
that provided a great service to ho's
instead of just throwing $$ for more tons of ac
fix the house
less tons of a/c, total house performance, improved comfort and IAQ.

"If you have to rely on government subsidies to make your work attractive to your customer you are not understanding of the value of the work."

true dat.

best of luck to all of you.