oxy/ace or Mapp/pro for soft silver solder

[freezer_man]

(Not intending to debate, brazing vs soldering, that's been beat to death...)

But for soft silver soldering around txv's and other heat sensitive areas (i..e stay-brite #8) what are folks using that works best for them. Mapp/pro or oxy/ace (with a gentle touch)?

I think Mapp/pro is probably hot enough, but even for normal water plumbing sometimes it a chore to get enough heat into the joint.

Gonna try oxy/ace anyway, but is oxy/ace to hot for this? Worried about vaporizing the flux.

Looking for experiances or tips...

[Rickrod3]

For soft soldering (under 500 degrees F under 1-1/2") I use air/ace.
I have different tips that I use for smaller and larger diameters.

Brazing Oxy/Ace also different tips for smaller to larger diameters.
when water is an issue I try to stop the water jet sweat or open the lines.
If I cannot solder within a few seconds I do not feel comfortable with the joint.
That's just me.
Rick

[Airmechanical]

Gonna try oxy/ace anyway, but is oxy/ace to hot for this? Worried about vaporizing the flux.


if your oxy acc flame is too hot

you know them 2 little knobs on the handle of the torch, turn them down



.

[freezer_man]

if your oxy acc flame is too hot

you know them 2 little knobs on the handle of the torch, turn them down



.

Silly me, never thought of that. You think if I turn them down enough I can use oxy/ace to toast bread or maybe use as a hairdryer?

[Airmechanical]

Silly me, never thought of that. You think if I turn them down enough I can use oxy/ace to toast bread or maybe use as a hairdryer?

if you decide to do the hair dryer thing we could pay you for the video:pop:



.

[freezer_man]

:eek2:
if you decide to do the hair dryer thing we could pay you for the video:pop:



.


Hmmm... how much? Times are tough and business has been slow...

[Paul Bee]

Jewelers use oxy-acetylene the advantage is heat control. I find if I adjust the flame to have a long feather and quiet flame it wraps around the work and heats pretty evenly. You could buy some smaller tips, turbotorch victor makes a 000 size tip that only brazes up to 1/2 inch.

[monkeyspanners]

For txv's i use oxy/ace with a 6 hole pepper pot tip and 15% silver brazing rods. As far as i know we don't get stay brite in the uk. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing :D

We don't get those compact oxy/ace kits you guys get either, heres a link to the smallest available here with refillable bottles.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/shop/gas-weld-braze-set.htm

Believe me, it needs the wheels :LOL:

[-MAKE-]

Don't you have those oxy/turbogas disposable things? I've never tried one but seems nice one to carry to awkward sites. Couple of times i've walked by the set and allmost grabbed it with me.

[monkeyspanners]

Don't you have those oxy/turbogas disposable things? I've never tried one but seems nice one to carry to awkward sites. Couple of times i've walked by the set and allmost grabbed it with me.

Yeah, i won a set in a competition at the wholesalers a few years back, i put it all together but the hoses leaked on the check valves so i never bothered with it again! I think the bottles are quite expensive too.

I like the fact that the bottles are refillable on the set i have, just don't like having to carry it up ladders etc :p

My business partner has just got a oxy/mapp set, it uses a refillable oxygen cylinder with a disposable mapp gas. Many sites have banned acetylene here so i may end up getting a mapp adaptor to go with my existing set.

[udarrell]

Yeah, i won a set in a competition at the wholesalers a few years back, i put it all together but the hoses leaked on the check valves so i never bothered with it again! I think the bottles are quite expensive too.

I like the fact that the bottles are refillable on the set i have, just don't like having to carry it up ladders etc :p

My business partner has just got a oxy/mapp set, it uses a refillable oxygen cylinder with a disposable mapp gas. Many sites have banned acetylene here so i may end up getting a mapp adaptor to go with my existing set.
Why are they banning acetylene?

I used the small bottles for going on roofs.
Also, bought 'two' oxygen & acetylene bottles, so wouldn't run out of either on a job.

Select the proper tip size for the particular application, use a neutral flame & move the flame rapidly enough 'around the pipe first' to get it hot enough, then go to the fitting then back back & forth from pipe to fitting, when hot enough apply brazing rod & finish the braze.

Proper adjustment of the oxy-acetylene flame along with first getting the pipe within the fitting & then the fitting, back-&-forth, to get the right temperature(s) - is critical to properly brazed, leak-proof fittings.

You can tell when you've done it right.
Always wrap with wet rag & protect the TXV from the heat in every way possible.The flame must always be 'pointing away from' & never toward - what needs protecting.

[Some Dude]

Every job is different, i use this http://watchmaking.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/7/9/1179986/staybright_solder_spec_sheet.pdf
And whatever i need to get it hot enough.

I have everything from torch sets, to b tanks to hand held becuase sooner or later,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ya need them all.

[Joker]

Any soldering job is best done quick to keep from over heating valves. I still perfer O/A setup because of the ablity to heat up fast and get out. Propane/Map gas might take to long and transfer too much overall heat.

Lots of wet blue paper towels with a water bottle to keep them soaked and any torch with enough heat will work.

Tips make the biggest difference that I have found.

[bmathews]

It really doesn't matter what sort of rig you use. The silver solder has a very defined melt point. The point of attack has to be that temperature for it to melt and seal properly. If the copper is not hot enough and you are simply melting the solder to seal. You will get a "cold joint" and has a very good chance of losing the seal and creating a leaker down the road. There is a skill and a proper way to use your torches. If you're worried about overheating a TXV or any other heat sensitive component you should and need to be wrapping a wet rag around it. They have some stuff at the supply house to spray on it. I've never tried it.

[joemach]

It really doesn't matter what sort of rig you use. The silver solder has a very defined melt point. The point of attack has to be that temperature for it to melt and seal properly. If the copper is not hot enough and you are simply melting the solder to seal. You will get a "cold joint" and has a very good chance of losing the seal and creating a leaker down the road. There is a skill and a proper way to use your torches. If you're worried about overheating a TXV or any other heat sensitive component you should and need to be wrapping a wet rag around it. They have some stuff at the supply house to spray on it. I've never tried it.

Good info on "cold joint". I see our installers do it all the time with B tank. That is why I like oxy/act. Can suck the braze into the joint without over heating.

The spray stuff at the supply house is heat sink. I use the Cool Gel. Once you use it you may never go back to wet rags. Although sometimes you need both. Give it a try, I think you will like it.

[monkeyspanners]

Why are they banning acetylene?


Its, not being banned as such, its just on some sites, generally the bigger companies. I think its because there have been a few cases of fires, and the fact that with acetylene cylinders they need to be hosed down with water for 24hrs after to ensure they don't just go bang, and have a 200m or so exclusion zone during those 24hrs, you could shut down a whole shopping mall for example if things went a little wrong.

Some friend of mine do work at airports here and they are not allowed acetylene on site and i believe it is the same on some other sites too. When i did my F Gas assesment last year the training centre wasn't alllowed to have any acetylene on site either, we had to use oxy propane which was a pain for my brazing assesment as it was only the second time i'd used it.

Our whole country is health and safety mad, though a lot of it seems to be to stop anyone being sued rather than keeping workers safe.

[Home&Marine]

I've been using a Turbo torch but I'll tell you I've been welding/brazing for 35 years and StayBrite 8 and a Turbo torch do not work for me. On a Turdbo you can only decrease the amount of heat a certain amount because the torch will get Rich and smoke the part. I bought the turbo because it's one tank but I think an Oxy/Ace rig is in the near future. The last RV I did was a PIA with the Turbo (and 15% Sil.). The Turbo would good on line sets but in a tight place it's tough. I might try one of the smallest tips and see if that helps.