Tech support charge

[service guy]

I was talking to a guy in supply house today somehow we started talking about tech support Problems, To make a long story short he told me GE tech support charges you 20 bucks for help???????? I was wondering if anyone else came across this problem with other companys. I wonder if more people will catch on and start charging for help.

[midhvac]

No, but I think it would be a dandy idea here :D

[htg guy]

The day I get charged from the company for helping me to figure out a problem with their piece of equipment is the day I switch to another brand!

[Noel Murdough]

Honeywell had a 1-900 number for tech support once, and charged by the minute. It was for tradesmen only, and you paid them to argue whether you were a tradesman or not.

It didn't last long....

Noel

[lowtemp]

if a manufacturer needs to charge for help support then guess what. It means too many of their employees are spending too much time on the phone dealing with defects in their product.

[i_got_ideas]

Originally posted by htg guy
The day I get charged from the company for helping me to figure out a problem with their piece of equipment is the day I switch to another brand!

ME too :D

[Dowadudda]

Wait a second.

You guys get paid for what you know. So why is that a problem that they do? I think the level of expertise of most tech support would improve greatly myself. There would be more money for the salary of those types. They don't make much. Most guys working in the feild for independant contractors make more money than these desk guys. And often they suck. So if they got the pay up there due to charging you, then there would be better value for it because of the level of technical expertise person you nede for that. I'd like to do it when I am older.

[htg guy]

Sorry! If tech support people want more money, then tell them to go out and get a better job. The manufacturer will always need to have knowledgable people who are able to help anyone that may need it. Just because we are installing and repairing their stuff does'nt mean we know all there is to know about it. Are you saying that out of all the equipment you service and install you never have a problem that you need help with? Even though I've been college trained and in the field for 18 years I will admit that there are times when I need help on a manufacturers piece of equipment. As for knowing everything there is to know about everything I work on; I'll be dead and gone before that happens. The line of work that we do is such that from the day we begin to the day we die we will most likely learn something new every day and put it to use from that day on.

We already get charged by these companies. Its reflected in the price we pay for that piece of equipment. Which with most of these companies is already excessive.

Just like in the field there are also alot of these tech reps that have'nt a clue when it comes to the piece of equipment they try to help with. I've run across a few that just made me shake my head and wonder how they got their jobs.

[Edited by htg guy on 09-23-2004 at 08:03 PM]

[Dowadudda]

Jeez Lo Pete's,

Calm Down. I aint trying to start a fight. I never meant to mean that I never call on them. Of course I do. But I do beleive that if you pay for it, you should get a better person at the other end. I use tech support now to frustration sometimes.

Let me just say this. And again I don't mean to start nothing. There is a guy in my area who is the tyler factory dude. He's a great guy, before he is an even better technical guru. He's young. He's well versed and very proffesional. A guy you would always have faith in. And he's humble. Has a hell of a reputation. I asked him what he makes. I was floored. Not squat.

[midhvac]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
Wait a second.

You guys get paid for what you know. So why is that a problem that they do?

I believe the tech support people should be adequately paid for their knowledge. Yes, it's an extra expense to their company to provide this, but the amount of money spent may prove to be an incentive to improve the product.

It's bad enough when we have to make a long distance call to their tech support number and are passed around to 3 levels of support people before an answer is given, and it turns out to be the incorrect answer. I had this happen once with White Rodgers.

[NormChris]

About 75% of the calls HVAC tech support gets from technicians are so basic in nature that any real technician should have been able to solve the problem without calling the manufacturer!!!!!!

This is no streach whatsoever! You should hear what they are asked on a daily basis from people who work full-time as HVAC service technicians. It is amazing!

[cynic]

Anyone care to imagine what the vast majority of calls to GE tech support are ? Hotel ptacs and who looks at them first ? Then again if they wanted to pay for my time on hold..... :)

[NormChris]

We get regular calls from technicians who do not know how to measure superheat or subcooling and can't tell us what the temperatures and pressures are. Some do not even have a clamp-on-ammeter. Calls about how to charge a system are standard.

[HVAC Pro]

Makes me feel good. I have never had a tech support person answer a question for me or at least give me an answer that I didn't already know. We rehash what I already knew before calling. They give me moral support and I guess that's worth something. :D

[htg guy]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
Jeez Lo Pete's,

Calm Down. I aint trying to start a fight.

And again I don't mean to start nothing.




LOL! Nor am I!!!! And whats wrong with this picture? Your posts are gettin shorter and mine are gettin longer.


How bout them packers eh!

[fatboy]

when you call into tech support

and play the phone tag game to get to the answer man

you better have the info available that they want

like NormC said, show you know what your attempting to repair

have the system pressures/sh/sc/amps/volts/etc on your
notepad-

once the factory service support knows your on your game- they will help

example

measuring True RMS volts on a vfd pm this week, I carry 3 Fluke meters claim they read true rms (#32,#26,#337)

the 32 reads 330v at 48hz at 7.2 vdc sig to drive
the 26 reads 440v
the 337 reads 370v

I got $800+ in meters and nothing agreeing, what the F???

I call Fluke tech suport- they explain that the HZ and band width are not in sync with the 48hz reading at my drive and thus inaccurate for my #32 and #26 meters, only the #337 is accurate

My response is you buy a true RMS meter and still don't get a true reading of the onsite readings.

The Fluke tech support clarified this , wasn't to happy that my meters are not accurate in certain HZ ranges. but I did get the correct answer (I hope)


Really pissed me off that you spend that kind of $$$ on a meter and its not really the proper meter for in my case vfd measurements. Know way a counter guy has a clue on this tech data

fatboy

[hvac45]

We have a company in our area that charges the customer $ 50.00 when they call tech support. I could not believe it. The customer showed me the invoice.

[Dowadudda]

I re read the thread. Okay, here is my take on this more explicitly explained.

Okay this guy said GE. So I am thinking like washers and dryers and refrigerators. That kind of tech support is no good anyway. I mean that is where the techs call in and don't have the neccesary education or experience to perform their job and think the guy at GE will help. In the world I live in, of large industrial equipment, often times your phone call is on a level that should wash out these types of technicians. When I call and have a question it's because I have used all my experience and knowledge up and don't get why the machines computer is making the machine do this instead of that. The sort of questions these sorts of guys feild from guys like myself are like on a level 10 stories above the GE dude.

[Green Mountain]

You know I had to start something in this company of mine to let me and my staff know who we are dealing with.

We sell the time that knowledgeable technicians spend at people's homes and businesses. It is becoming increasing important to know who you are servicing and their ability to pay for the service.

We have 24 hour service and anybody used to be able to call us up and we would go. No more. If you don't have a customer account number then we don't go. If you call our company during business hours then we will set up an account and give you a customer number WHEN your credit is approved. When you buy a new piece of equipment from us we give you a customer number. If it is an emgency call and you have a customer number then we roll.

Frigidaire has a very good technicial service department. But I have to convince them first that I am a legitimate contractor or else they will try to blow me off. This pisses me off somewhat because I am thrown in with the inquisitive home owners. Why not just give me a contractor number so you know who you are dealing with?

[lowtemp]

if manufacturers were smart they build the price of 'tech support' into the pricing of their equipment. They would just have to determine average number of calls per day and how long a tech is on the phone dealing with them.

[sysint]

I had to use the local Trane branch for tech support on a control installation they did.

The guy charged me 4 times the amount of time - (during overtime). I passed the bill to the customer (national account)along with my cell phone record because they wouldn't adjust the bill... Entertaining!

[midhvac]

Originally posted by HVAC Pro
Makes me feel good. I have never had a tech support person answer a question for me or at least give me an answer that I didn't already know.

This is absolutely true for me also. On the very few occasions I've called them, it became quickly apparent that they knew *less* than me about *THEIR* product. As you said, it makes you feel good..... sorta. But unfortunately it does leave you with a lower opinion of their company. I guess it does cut their work load down though, because you'll never call them with another question again.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by lowtemp
if manufacturers were smart they build the price of 'tech support' into the pricing of their equipment. They would just have to determine average number of calls per day and how long a tech is on the phone dealing with them.

They already do build those costs into the cost of the equipment.

[jrbenny]

I haven't charged...however, there are those job site visits that make you want to charge a LOT! Especially when the installer/tech/owner have beat the manufacturer into the ground....and it's an installation/setup issue all along.

However, it's usually more productive to do some OJT and get the guys in your classes. Once you show them they don't know as much as they think (and do it in a positive way), they are quick to get registered for your next equipment training session.

[lowtemp]

Originally posted by NormChris

Originally posted by lowtemp
if manufacturers were smart they build the price of 'tech support' into the pricing of their equipment. They would just have to determine average number of calls per day and how long a tech is on the phone dealing with them.

They already do build those costs into the cost of the equipment.

so they are just ripping us off then

[Noel Murdough]

What should they do? Stop providing free service on the phone and jobsite?

[tinman]

Originally posted by NormChris

About 75% of the calls HVAC tech support gets from technicians are so basic in nature that any real technician should have been able to solve the problem without calling the manufacturer!!!!!!

This is no streach whatsoever! You should hear what they are asked on a daily basis from people who work full-time as HVAC service technicians. It is amazing!



I agree, when I first started in the trade I would call tech support and they would want info. Info like temp rise, gas pressure, voltage, etc. I said sure no problem by the time I gathered all this info the problem showed it's self. I wouldn't need to call back. Now days I seldom call tech support. I would like to see manufactures put more tech bullitins out on the street. This would help out with oem problems. Like those pesky burners goodman had upgraded to beckett burners. Just a minor example.

[tinman]

And why doesn't the manufacture post more info on the furnace tag? We have gas pressure and temp rise on the tag, how about make and break points on the pressure switches. This is the info I spend the most time hunting down.

[Noel Murdough]

I'll work on that.

Noel

[hvac r us 2]

I dont even know where to start with this thread...it's all wrong.

AAhhh forget it, I dont have time to even get into it.

[The Penguin]

Is lennox still giving tech support on DMS3's I coulda used it last week geez I was pulling my hair out hell that uint is most likely off their radar by now. I have realised that on theway home that building is short of air cause the units are and have always been too small.
ha I had a bad week.
As for tech support I don't use it much but when the chips are down it sure helps to have wizard on the other end of the line. I am leary about paying for it though particulary as I have always found I can get by but it does help to have someone to bounce ideas off too. ENG air tech support has been good but now I know as much or more than the average tech support guy knows most of the time.

I would suggest any one to try being the tech support by phone its not easy thats for sure

[HVAC Pro]

The major reason I call tech support is when I see a repeated component failure with a given model. It's nice to know whether there are any technical bulletins that I don't know about. Usually this is covered if the part is under warranty and sometimes in the instructions with the new part. (I always read anything that is shipped in the box with the part.) Too bad this industry isn't more like the automotive industry where any repair shop can access bulletins from any of the manufacturers from one source.

[hvac r us 2]

I really didn’t want to get involved with this thread...but I can’t help it, it has content that is near and dear to my heart.

Okay where do I start…expertise eh?

Well, I can’t speak for every distributor, but we are well known for our technical excellence. That is probably why our department takes an average of 60 phone calls a day (those are recorded numbers) from anybody and everybody. We have also been know to help dealers out with products that are not our own.

To believe that a tech rep is someone with a 10th grade education looking up material from his desk is a mistake. I know most of the Carrier reps; although there are some that are mediocre at best…most are very sharp. Actually, some of them are the best I have ever seen.

Try troubleshooting over the phone; it’s an art to say the least. Don’t forget about the jobsite visits. I cover 25 counties, 148 dealers and more than 2,000 technicians. When I make a jobsite visit (about a 100 jobs a year) it is after a dealer has been there several times and or multiple dealers have been present with no resolution. Problem is when I get involved I get one shot at it, no such thing as a callback for me. By this time there may be lawyers involved and it is an ugly situation. As far as a tech rep not being sharp on the product they represent… what can I say, try me!

And that is about a third of what we are responsible for. Who do you think negotiates warranty claims? Don’t forget about training, as it takes about 10 hours of prep time for every hour of class time. One 4-hour class takes around 40 hours to prepare for. The stress is very high…

The pay is not good? I don’t know, what is considered good? I can tell you this, I was one of the highest paid guys in the field…and I make considerably more money in tech support than in the field.

As far as putting more info on the tag, I am not sure what more could be added. There is already BTUH, volts, amps, gas pressure, temp rise and so on…
All Carrier furnaces for about the last two years have make and break points of the pressure switches on the pressure switch. And if they don’t your local distributor (tech support) can provide a spreadsheet of all the make and break points of all model units.

Norm says that 75% of all tech support calls are basic questions…good guess. I have heard everything from “I have plenty of gas pressure, I can hear it” to “ I pulled a good vacuum, it was down to 30” vacuum” to “Where do I hook my leads on my meter”.

Most questions are basic and most techs cannot answer questions like Superheat, Subcooling and MicroAmp reading, it’s really sad. I have heard it all, I hate pone calls that start with “ I have been doing this 30 years” I guess that is supposed to mean “I have a major problem because I have been doing this a long time and cant figure it out” Usually something simple...

Tech rep “What is the model number”
Dealer “Carrier”
Tech rep “No I mean the model number”
Dealer “Weathermaker”

To

Tech rep “maybe the compressor is grounded”
Tech “it is I can see the wire”
Tech Rep “ what wire”
Tech “ the ground wire”
Tech rep “ No I mean maybe the compressor is shorted to ground”
Tech “ no its not grounded, it’s on the roof”

That could go on all day….

By the way, most jobsite visits that claim a “lemon” are install or application problems. Or just poor troubleshooting. I have been here 6 years and have not found more than a dozen “factory” problems.

Everybody claims they don’t use tech support, but where are all these phone calls coming from?

I have fought this issue of charging dealers for years. I feel our dealers are entitled to our services. But I must say, there are plenty of jobsite visits I would like to have charged the dealer for dragging me out! Just ridiculous! I didn’t realize just how low the skill level was of the average tech until I took this job years ago.

I have been working on a jobsite request form. You provide the info before I make a visit; you might even find your own problem. (That’s the best education) This way when I get there, I am sure it will be a “factory” problem, for which I would be glad to help out with.

If not, or you lied on the form…I wouldn’t feel bad about billing you. Kind of a tough love thing, the point is for the dealer to learn so they can be more accurate, efficient and profitable.

It's getting late, guess I will get off my soapbox now…

[HVAC Pro]

Hmmmm

[The Penguin]

Its good to hear from the other end of the phone line.
so to speak.

[fatboy]

hvacrus2

you whorersalesers at Carrier already rape us(contractors) for the cost of parts

sorry about your luck,,

when I call you factory guys, I expect answers

in my area we are referred up to Detroit wholesaler CGL which has provided satisfactory support

maybe you wholesalers need to usebetter judgement on who you sell to versus ripping on the quality/expertise of the other end.

fatboy

[hvac r us 2]

Hold on there fatboy, you miss understand me…

I want to be there for you, and want to make your experience dealing with tech support a good one. I love it when I get a good tech on the phone and he gets excited because he found out some information that solves his problem, that’s the best!

Here is my problem…

A dealer calls me out to a job that is 200 miles from the office. I loose an entire day helping this dealer out, to only find his problem is that he ran to many elbows on his vent pipe.

So while Mr. Good dealer calls and is on a jobsite with a no heat and need assistance, guess what he gets? You guessed it…Voice Mail.

When you’re on the road you can only help that dealer, in the office you may help 30 people in one day.

Although we have a policy to call everybody back the same day, sometimes when you’re in a bind waiting 2 hours for a return call it’s not very convenient.

The dealer does have some responsibility in the field right? I shouldn’t have to go out with a licensed professional dealer to hold there hand with things like venting, ductwork, checking gas pressure, units not grounded, wrong application, improper set up…the list goes on for ever.

Do you know how many dealers just wash there hands of the situation and say “hey it’s your equipment” not my problem. Get them on the phone and they can’t tell you anything about the job. They just go “yeah, yeah everything is okay I checked it” of course they have no numbers or facts to back up there claim of “checking it” I can not tell you how many phone calls come in and the guy cant even tell you what the model is. They will say things like “it’s a Carrier 90 plus” then the guy gets mad because I keep asking what model it is…it does matter you know? Are we talking about a… SX,SXA,SXB,SXC,MVP,MXA,MCA,MTA… the list goes on and on. Hell, I have narrowed it down to model by having the guy describe vent termination, cabinet color, circuit board color…you name it. Should I just hang up and say call me back when you have the numbers? Then I am the prick right?

Do you know how many dealers will demand a jobsite visit that day and think nothing of leaving a homeowner with no heat until you can get there? Happens all the time…I think that is very disrespectful to all the other dealers that need my help also.

Don’t tell me a good dealer would be concerned about his customer and pride themselves in there work and all that good stuff…I am with you, your preaching to the choir. But I can tell you it is not the case. Most of the time the dealer will blame the equipment, not there in competency. The thing that makes me angry is they don’t want to know/learn what the problem is…they want somebody to fix it for them.

I know most good dealers will stand by there work and say “if I missed something stupid I deserve to get a bill” Is that the way it is? I know most people have a hard time with constructive criticism.

I get really upset that I get pulled all over the place and can’t be there as much as I want for our dealers. Guess that is why I answer the cell phone 6 days a week, 7 to 7. And answer e-mails 7 days a week and even while on vacation (that always goes over well with the wife) I spent a lot of years in the field, I understand the frustration. I have a close working relationship with my dealers and consider them friends, so I tend to help a friend out whenever I can.

It is very frustrating to sit on the phone for 40 minutes because a guy can’t read the fault code diagnostics…and again, the good tech sits on hold and waits.

I used tech support while in the field, I to found it to be helpful. It’s great to call up and get specific information, service bulletins, product application…or in my case I will tell you if I am seeing a particular problem in the field.

Don’t get the wrong idea, I want to see your problem jobs…but make it legit, do your part. If there is a problem with “my” equipment, I will help you find it. It’s my responsibility to find it, and I will. But if “my” equipment is responding to external problems I expect you to properly troubleshoot it. If you are having trouble finding the problem, I will assist you…but don’t just throw in the towel and claim it is my problem.

Sorry for the long post, I love what I do but find it very frustrating with the “it’s not my problem attitude”

I always had pride in what I did in the field, that seems to be lacking…

[docholiday]

I am not one that agrees with charging dealers for answering questions but its really not that bad of an idea. Dealers should attend training as often as possible especially when changes in design are made. AS HVAC R US and Norm and others have said, the majority of calls are ones that either lack information such as pressures, temps, voltages etc. Generally these calls yeild no solution since there are too many variables left. Yeah, you may get some things to check but most should have been checked prior to the call.

Most mfg's have a job site sheet they like filled out prior to support. I remember calling Becketts oil burn number years ago, and I didnt have the answer to a simple question that I now realize made a significant difference in the unit operation. Had I prepred myself, either the problem would have been obvious to me or it would have made it possible for the man at the other end to know what's wrong.

90% of us are sitting here on Windows based machines using internet explorer. Microsoft will charge you for tech support.

If it were done right, legitimate calls would not be charged. Calls (which are in the majority) where basic information is unavailble should be. Many of the calls are from cell phones with a tech on the job, generally he/she has been there for hours chasing their tail. The tech support asks for readings. The tech has to read them either again or most likely for the first time in a step by step means to an end. Yet the technican charges the homeowner for his time.

I still dont think there should be a charge but the caller should at least do his homework first. It's only fair.

[boat racer]

On a micro scale I do the same job within the company I work for. As one of the lead techs I am available to my coworkers 24/7 by Nextel. I get many calls that are resolved not be me giving answers, but by asking for basic information: superheat, PT conversion, amp rating vs draw, etc. Very often I do not get called back with the information because the tech finds the problem and solution when he collects the data.

If a manufacturer is charging for tech support, it probably isn't greed; it is to reduce nuisance calls.