what do you think

[dairyman]

we did a job for a customer--new 80 gallon water heater--in moving it to the basement(sled it down the steps,unit still in cardboard shipper)the T/P valve pushed through the side of the box resulting in 7 scratched threshholds on the steps. Told the customer what had happened and that we would pay for the repair. Customer got an estimate for $800 to fix it. Today the boss told me that $100 would be withheld from my check for the next two months.
I ain't too happy a camper to say the least. So what do you guys think--am I wrong to feel this way????

[wolfdog]

I'm having a hard time being too sympathetic.
One step maybe.....but seven?

[dairyman]

Well didn't really see it as it was the underside of the carton and at the bottom of the steps it was too late

[hi-tork]

Those are light enough, you could have taken it out of the box and carried on your shoulder...ok, maybe this one not on a shoulder, but especially if there were two of ya's like you indicate, one on either end...I'm with Wolfdog, why didn't you stop after 1 step?

[dairyman]

I brought the heater down the steps by myself as the other guy was at the end of the house pulling the old on out. I was try to be efficient (no kidding) and not standing around waiting for him to finish up. I guess its two guys from now on---thanks

[spotts]

You would have [and should have] never had a problem if you had a decent cart! Don't you install furnaces too? How the hell do you work without a cart? Who ever heard of sliding a W/H down the stairs?????? WQork smarter.... not harder! Tell him you'll cover 25% of the damage only if he'll buy one of these. http://www.yeats.net/
Get a model 16. bottom strap goes low enough to handle boilers too.

[hi-tork]

It sounds like lesson learned, but I have to hand it to you, you sound like you still have a great attitude and thats appreciated. I understand if you have a boss like that, "always pushin" to get things done and you think you're doing something right, then it backfires and he's right there to collect from you. Spotts has a good idea, also, don't sacrifice your back or any other part of you to "get it done", it isn't worth it, and a real boss will be able to tell the difference; wait for your partner or call for more resources...

[cehs]

Spots, I have slid many a furnace and water heaters down stairs by MYSELF when I was a one man shop.

One man, has to be smarter to do something that could take two men...

I never had a problem...

[Dowadudda]

The boss is breaking the law for starters. Number two. 800 bones my a$$. Number three, where was the appliance dolly at? Number four. Mistakes happen. We all make them to inlcude this boss. I was not done in jest, it was a dumb move, but you live and learn and move on. I think taking money out of your pocket is stupid and dumb and cheap. I already said it was against the law too.

[frozensolid]

I agree with Dow. Your boss assumed liability for you when he hired you. If you become to big a liability, he should fire you. You can't charge your employees for the damage.

Everyone has made dumb mistakes! Do it everyday and you won't work much. A friend of mine always told me, if you don't ever make a mistake, you ain't doing nothing.

Show me a man, who never made a mistake, and I'll show you a fool, or a liar.

[hvac45]

I agree with Dow.

[operator]

Old boss used to do this to the guys.
Found alot of them taking a little longer on jobs(not just time for safety), longer lunches, more travel time.

Attitude was "F me, no no sir, F YOU"

Boss didn't really recover his money now did he, just created ill will with the employees

[Green Mountain]

Originally posted by hvac45
I agree with Dow.

ditto.

This sounds like a claim for the company's public liability insurance. What happens if one of the men burns down a shopping center. What would the boss do? Take out 2 million dollars over the next 20 years.

[Edited by benncool on 09-21-2004 at 01:17 PM]

[thehumid1]

I am split on this one...I think employees should have some kind of personal responsibility. Years ago when I was a otr driver moving furniture their policy was the first $1,000 of damage came out of my pocket and then the rest their insurance covered so you better believe I was careful.

The only time I had something like this happen was when I had two techs changing a condensing unit on the roof of an apartment building somehow they got confused between them and changed the wrong unit and tossed the old one off the roof...OOps! thank god the apt mgr agreed to pay the cost of the extra new condensor minus the labor when I explained what happened. I brought the new condensor to the site told both of the guys they were getting paid for the hours of the original install and the second one was off the clock if they still wanted a job or they could go home and I would install myself. They installed it. I am not sure what I would of done if the apt mgr did not pay for the new unit which they didn't have too but I certainly would have thought about charging them for it.

I guess if it is illegal to charge the employee for negligance and carelessness like Dow said I would suspend them w/o pay equal to the cost of the damage but it would depend on whether this was the first incident or a habitual pattern. I have done some thing with tardiness too.(come in late well thanks but when you weren't here at 8 a.m. I gave you the day off).

Accidents happen...but sliding a water heater down stairs is not what I would exactly call an accident but if it was the first time you showed poor judgement I would let it go with a little preaching about being more careful.


[Edited by thehumid1 on 09-21-2004 at 01:38 PM]

[spotts]

Originally posted by cehs
Spots, I have slid many a furnace and water heaters down stairs by MYSELF when I was a one man shop.

One man, has to be smarter to do something that could take two men...

I never had a problem...




I'm sorry Ches but wirking without a cart or appliance dolly is definately NOT working smarter in my book. Actually it makes a 2 man tug possible by 1 man, and much safer on the worker and the home. I wouldn't be surprised to see a "slide the water heater or furnace down the stairs" shot on Americas Funniest Home Videos. Do you just drag it up the driveway in the dirt and grease, then over the carpet and through the kitchen before you give'er the ol slide down the stairs? Paints a funny picture in my head.

[Dad]

Dow and Humid are all over this. Spotts too

Crap happens

Stay legal

Don't kill yourself

Work smart

$800.00 ? ? ? ? Need to get a volume discount.(seven stairs) All it could be is an oak bull nose and finish at best. It is not like you are rebuilding a staircase or remodeling the upstairs bath. Call this repair company and have a pow-wow. Ask for a professional courtesy discount. If they say no, replace their hot water heater! :D

[Dowadudda]

In addition to the other wise men on here like HVAC45, Beeny, and the rest who see this my way. Also would like to add to what the one guy said about bad feelings and ill will of the employees.

Listen. Mistakes will happen. Dumb bonehead idiotic stuff happens. Sometimes it happens and you mean for it to. But the majority of the time it's done innocently. I feel that if you were to reach down into the throat of each man every time they make a mistake, you have really shut down the open, imaginative and progressive atmosphere that we must as leaders nurture. Most men and women in this business as mechanics are humble, but dedicated proffesionals, and usually they know when the mistake happens how significant it is. It's a warm thought to them that there employer will understand, and they will strive to do better.

Here is where I see contractors pull the crap like this. They were idiot mechanics. They were always thinking they were better than every one else, even though they sucked. Often times, lazy. And look at employees as a way to feel himself esteemed that he is in business. Some people are just dicks. And some of them somehow find a way to own and operate a company.

If it were me and I could afford, I let him take this cash from me, And then, I'd call the Dept of Labor in your state and open up a can a whoop a$$ on him.

Meetings about saftey, comments each day to techs, "hey tie your ladder off" "make sure when you go hog wild on that grinder you wear some glasses" . It doesn't even have to be anything, just a simple reminder that there wife called wants them home in one peice after work.

[markwolf]

Tell the guy straight up-If you steal my pay I will turn you in.If you get fired SO WHAT!Go find a better employer & move on.

[wolfdog]

Maybe dairyman isn't the sharpest arrow in the quiver and this is not his first "boo boo".
Maybe the owner has paid out a lot of money or filed more than one claim because of hired help already.
Perhaps this is an alternative to firing this employee for a stupid mistake.
Perhaps this is an effort to make his employee(s) think a little harder when faced with challenges on the job.

Maybe none of the above.

You guys are quick to take sides when you have heard only one side.

[markwolf]

Originally posted by wolfdog
Maybe dairyman isn't the sharpest arrow in the quiver and this is not his first "boo boo".
Maybe the owner has paid out a lot of money or filed more than one claim because of hired help already.
Perhaps this is an alternative to firing this employee for a stupid mistake.
Perhaps this is an effort to make his employee(s) think a little harder when faced with challenges on the job.

Maybe none of the above.

You guys are quick to take sides when you have heard only one side. I would be quick to take sides if I saw a shoplifter stealing too.A thief is a thief is a thief.An employer using the threat of one's livlihood to steal from an employee is comparable to an armed robber.

[spotts]

Any employer who expects his crew to install equipment without a moving dolly is setting them up for trouble. If he is that big of a dildo to not supply simple necessary tools like that.....

[wolfdog]

Who said he didn't have a dolly?

He had a second man and was in too big of a hurry to wait for help.

I quote:
I brought the heater down the steps by myself as the other guy was at the end of the house pulling the old on out. I was try to be efficient (no kidding) and not standing around waiting for him to finish up. I guess its two guys from now on---thanks

[spotts]

Does your shop own a dolly? I think this is IMPOTENT to know!

[Green Mountain]

Throwing a condensing unit off the roof!!???!!!

I would more upset with them throwing the unit off the roof then changing the wrong unit. What an unprofessional thing to do. Who knows what could happen when you throw a unit off the roof. A situation that would be out of control should be avoided. WOW!

[Roscoe]

80 gal water heater is a 2 man job in and out I've done 'em buy myself but I'm the owner and that was when I started out.

You should use common sense, 2 men and a hand truck.

I agree this is totally illegal to take money out of a mans check for an accident.

And your boss should have hired someone to do the stairs himself, were these basement stairs what were they something special $800 ???

[Roscoe]

Originally posted by benncool
Throwing a condensing unit off the roof!!???!!!

I would more upset with them throwing the unit off the roof then changing the wrong unit. What an unprofessional thing to do. Who knows what could happen when younit off the roof.u throw a A situation that would be out of control should be avoided. WOW!

"Who knows what could happen "

I've done that LOOK OUT BELOW!!!!!!!!

If you're good enough it'll land in the dumpster:D:D

[spotts]

really heavy crap off roofs. Awesome!



Honestly common sence stopped us from doing that 15 yrs ago but man did we toss some big stuff in the day!

[Diceman]

Me too, the higher the better...........smash, boom. The old days you could watch oil and freeezone explode in a ball of plastic, copper and steel. The fans on condensers would spin like whirly birds......right before impact......

[condenseddave]

Originally posted by Diceman
Me too, the higher the better...........smash, boom. The old days you could watch oil and freeezone explode in a ball of plastic, copper and steel. The fans on condensers would spin like whirly birds......right before impact......

Man, those WERE the days.;)

Heaved a 10 ton can off the side into an empty 40 yard dumpster just as the CEO of the grocery store was walking next to it once.

I had NO IDEA that a 65 year old man could do such a vertical leap!:D

[Green Mountain]

Well I'm glad all you David Letterman wantabes grew up and don't do that no more!! I suppose throwing crap off the roof is better than leaving the old compressors, cyclinders, condensing units etc. ON the roof! Just make sure you have spotters, hard hats, safety glasses, barrades and something to protect the parking lot.

[swat]

Torn to a point over the subject but here is a little different idea.

If I were paying for it I would shop for the cheapest price I could find for the repairs. No way would I be paying 800 for it.

Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick I guess but I would be miffed just a tad bit and I know I would be leaving before I had the full 800 taken outta my pay.

[Reliant Air]

I saw someone say it's against the law so I started looking and found a few links.

http://www.las-elc.org/deductpay.pdf (California)

http://www3.gov.ab.ca/hre/employmentstandards/publications/pdf/esfs26.pdf (Alberta)

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Deductions.html (California)

http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/publications/pdfs/DL_emp_rights_ENG.pdf (across the pond somewhere)

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/ui/lablaw/pdlsum.html (Texas)

It looks like what he is doing is illegal. You may even have some protection against retaliation. It depends on where you are at.

http://www.weblocator.com/attorney/mn/law/emplawind.html

Whistleblower Statutes
Minnesota and the federal government both forbid an employer from firing a worker in retaliation for reporting a violation of law or for refusing to participate in activity the employee believes to be illegal. If an employee acts in good faith and reports suspected illegal activities to the employer, any governmental agency, or law enforcement officer, the employee cannot be fired or be treated adversely. The employee need not go through internal employer sponsored channels to report suspected illegal activity.

If you do ask for your money back do it in writing.