No WMDs, eh?

[RoBoTeq]

Can we really be comfy about where the chemical and biological weapons and facilities to build nuclear weapons went to when the Iraqi's were able to hide this much from us right under our noses?
http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/sandplanes.asp

[TB]

Let's remember too that it took 14 months for us to go into Iraq once the world knew we were going, plenty of time to hide/bury them, manufacturing plants for WMD's were found along with materials to build them with. Clinton knew they existed.

Thanks Robin

[bobby7388]

Also, don't forget where the Iraqi Air Force went during the 91 war, as soon as they saw that they would lose in the air they up and flew to Iran, thier... not to distant enemy. Doesn't make alot of sense, does it?

I believe they sent out.

[Edmund Forsthe]

no links to the pics?

[James 3528]

They have been around for a while, I have posted them here.

[johnl45]

As usual the right-wingers calling rusted out hulks of airplanes WMD. I guest if Bush and company preach this BS long enough the weak minded will believe anything.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by johnl45
As usual the right-wingers calling rusted out hulks of airplanes WMD. I guest if Bush and company preach this BS long enough the weak minded will believe anything.

I have never seen the President make a issue of these Migs. You are a A-hole as usual. Lefty wingers jump at the opportunity to minimalize weapons found in Iraq of any kind, yet they want Ted Kennedy Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to take your gun.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by johnl45
As usual the right-wingers calling rusted out hulks of airplanes WMD. I guest if Bush and company preach this BS long enough the weak minded will believe anything.

================================================== =========

I bet you are the most blissful person on the face of the earth. (Ignorance is bliss.)

Those aircraft were the latest Russian military aircraft loaded with the latest Russian electronics available.

[remember]

planes are conventional weapons.
there are no WMDS found.
what happened to all those chemical weapons we sold saddam?
we know he had them,we sold them to him.

but these rightist peeons,want to forget the myriad of weapons the bushies gaurenteed were there.said "we know where they are"(but wouldn't tell the inspectors,when they were there)and all the flip flopping from the administration constantly changing its story,everytime another thing they said turned into dust.

you guys would believe anything you were told.
and go so far as to rehash,something,anything even if it is just shadows on the wall.

the administration are a bunch of screw-ups.everything they touch turns to sh*t.and the loyal idiots in the boobie-hatch just parrot whatever .

nowadays,even saddam is a "WMD".

watch out !!!! HE's going to FAAARRRTTT!!!!!!

[bootlen]

Gag! That stink is spreading. Need air freshener again.

[air1]

W’s massive deception (WMD).

[market-tech]

Hey Remember,
I try to see everyones point of view. I tried to see yours but I can't get my head that far up my >>>.
Everyone in the world (apparently except you) knows that in 1988, Saddam gassed his own people in Halabja. Yea, I know, 1988 and 2004, two different times, blah blah blah. Check out this website, no, not a Bush site. A site put up by the Kurdistan Democratic Party.

http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

Regarding not finding WMD's. If I buried a 5 gallon bucket in California (approx same size as Iraq), and no one found it for a year or two years or three... you get the point, does that mean the bucket does not exist? How much destruction could 1 five gallon bucket of Anthrax cause?

Just curious, at what point during World War 2 would you have considered Hitler a threat?

And a final note, in a different thread you stated something to the effect of "no military person or endeavor has ever done anything for me" (paraphrased). Why do you think you have the freedoms you have, just because everyone in the world is so nice they wouldn't attack our country and turn it into, oh say "little Tokyo" (no offense intended to any ethnic group, just making a point). It's because men and women have answered the call of their country, fought and died so morons like you can get on your soapbox and spew your garbage hoping someone will buy it. I think you have picked the wrong forum.

[air1]

Market tech,

The inspectors have very sophisticated methods to determine if WMD are or were present. They take soil samples to detect minute traces of chemicals use in WMDs. It’s not that easy to hide them. I would refer to the experts to determine if WMDs exist. Last I heard they said there were none.

There are no WMDs. It’s a fact. Accept it. Deal with it. Get over it.

[air1]

Originally posted by bobby7388
Also, don't forget where the Iraqi Air Force went during the 91 war, as soon as they saw that they would lose in the air they up and flew to Iran, thier... not to distant enemy. Doesn't make alot of sense, does it?

I believe they sent out.

A little know fact. We sold Iraq their air defense system. But we put a bug in their system that would allow us to disable it. Befor we invaded we disable their air defense. They didn't stand a chance.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by air1

Originally posted by bobby7388
Also, don't forget where the Iraqi Air Force went during the 91 war, as soon as they saw that they would lose in the air they up and flew to Iran, thier... not to distant enemy. Doesn't make alot of sense, does it?

I believe they sent out.

A little know fact. We sold Iraq their air defense system. But we put a bug in their system that would allow us to disable it. Befor we invaded we disable their air defense. They didn't stand a chance.



================================================== =========

And that explains the Russian Migs buried in the desert? Look up the word "reality" in Webster's. You will find you are not in touch with it.

[RoBoTeq]

EARTH TO NOT SO BRIGHT LIBBIES!

No one stated that the aircraft were weapons of mass destruction. As usual, that is something you little girls wrongly assumed was stated.

The point is that if these aircraft can go undetected then so can the weapons of mass destruction that "not one entity in the world denied exist".

Why does being liberal cause the inability to do anything but *****?

[bootlen]

You could really consider an airliner an WMD. Remember 9-11?

Those Migs were possible delivery systems for WMDs.

[TB]

define WMD's.

shortly after the term was used in conjunction with Iraq, the libs were trying to define semi-auto pistols and rifles as WMD's, and now theyre denying they found anything like that.

They did find large caches of missils, grenades...

they been useing children wrapped in dynamite all along in crouded areas of society to inflict mass..uh.. what would that be....destruction?

[air1]

Once again for you guys with the thick skulls.

There are no WMDs. It’s a fact. Accept it. Deal with it. Get over it.

[johnl45]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
EARTH TO NOT SO BRIGHT LIBBIES!

No one stated that the aircraft were weapons of mass destruction. As usual, that is something you little girls wrongly assumed was stated.

The point is that if these aircraft can go undetected then so can the weapons of mass destruction that "not one entity in the world denied exist".

Why does being liberal cause the inability to do anything but *****? The sky is falling, The sky is falling, The sky is falling. Just like Bush/Cheney they don't state anything but that’s enough for right-wing Chicken Little.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by johnl45

Originally posted by RoBoTeq
EARTH TO NOT SO BRIGHT LIBBIES!

No one stated that the aircraft were weapons of mass destruction. As usual, that is something you little girls wrongly assumed was stated.

The point is that if these aircraft can go undetected then so can the weapons of mass destruction that "not one entity in the world denied exist".

Why does being liberal cause the inability to do anything but *****? The sky is falling, The sky is falling, The sky is falling. Just like Bush/Cheney they don't state anything but that’s enough for right-wing Chicken Little.

Like I have said before...you are the same kind of pecker wood that would say any weapon in Iraq that was or is later found is not relevant and trivialize it like you just did, but would side with John Kerry on taking away all Americans Remington auto shot gun.

[MechAcc]

July 2, 2004 — By Wojciech Moskwa
Polish Army Says Iraq Shells Had Deadly Cyclosarin
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters20040702_209.html

Polish Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said the discovery of the rockets showed Saddam had failed to account for banned munitions held by Iraq.

Polish Army in Iraq 'Mortified' That 'Terrorists Were Looking for These Warheads'

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/2/112615.shtml

NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, July 2, 2004
WARSAW, Poland – Terrorists may have been close to obtaining munitions containing the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin that Polish soldiers recovered last month in Iraq, the head of Poland's military intelligence said Friday.





[Edited by MechAcc on 09-12-2004 at 10:58 AM]

[Nevada]

Perhaps the WMD Bush is looking for is himself? He has cause more harm to America than any weapon ever constructed. This guy has some serious relationship issues with his Father and self esteem problems. He is sending others to die to show his bravery, but he was too cowardly to serve even in the safety of a cockpit.

Look at the facts and vote for a brighter future. The Dubya Report (http://www.thedubyareport.com/milserv.html)

[James 3528]

Originally posted by nevada
Perhaps the WMD Bush is looking for is himself? He has cause more harm to America than any weapon ever constructed. This guy has some serious relationship issues with his Father and self esteem problems. He is sending others to die to show his bravery, but he was too cowardly to serve even in the safety of a cockpit.

Look at the facts and vote for a brighter future. The Dubya Report (http://www.thedubyareport.com/milserv.html)



Blah blah blah

Oh please..get a life.

[Senior Tech]

Sadaam himself was a weapon of mass destruction...just by virtue of the orders he gave to murder thousands of innocent people...all weapons are not neccesarily mechanical or biological.

Nevada...get out of the desert heat...it's affecting your thinking....go hang with remember on the pros and cons of taking prozac website...

[Edited by senior tech on 09-12-2004 at 12:30 PM]

[rob10]

They will tell you about saddam's WMD's. The lib Bush haters will always be pu$$ies!!!

[bootlen]

Originally posted by nevada
Perhaps the WMD Bush is looking for is himself? He has cause more harm to America than any weapon ever constructed. This guy has some serious relationship issues with his Father and self esteem problems. He is sending others to die to show his bravery, but he was too cowardly to serve even in the safety of a cockpit.

Look at the facts and vote for a brighter future. The Dubya Report (http://www.thedubyareport.com/milserv.html)


================================================== =========

OKAY ALL YOU KNUCKLEHEAD DEMS/LIBS!! LISTEN UP! The United Nations accords called for, no DEMANDED, that Saddam Hussein be FORTHCOMING with documetation of the destruction of the WMD's that were already proven to have been in Iraq before the "91 Gulf War. HE NEVER COMPLIED! We were just in our attack on Iraq. Live with it.

We CANNOT depend on the namby-pamby U.N. to carry out their own edicts, unless it concerns disarming the U.S. and to hell with that.

[Edited by bootlen on 09-12-2004 at 03:03 PM]

[market-tech]

The left is not and will never be a part of the solution, unless it has to do with more social programs, more taxes, more government, less freedom for the american person, give the country away to illegal immigrants. Take away freedom of speech, unless it suits their needs (Kerry wanted swiftboat ads pulled and "Unfit for command" pulled, but never says a word about M. Moores movie or Moveon.org). They are part of the problem and will destroy this country if allowed in power.
I still don't know what Kerry stands for. First he's for the war, then against the war, he'll have us out of there in four months, 2 years, now I think it's up to 4 years. Can anyone honestly tell me what his platform is, less than 2 months from the election other that "I'm better than Bush, I went to Viet Nam, and oh yea, did I tell you, I got three Purple Hearts." And don't be a moron and generalize "Bush has ruined the coutry". State specific debateable (sp?) facts or don't state anything.
mark my words, when they do lose the election, they will either get a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers to take it to court or will scream for an impeachment because Bush didn't let them win or some such stuff!

[tab-tech]

.... that as the polls begin to swing away from the Dems, the frustrations and twists of fact gets more and more obvious in the written and spoken words.

Thank GOD the heart of American values is still strong.

There's too much important issues to take care than to waste valuable time chewing on old shoe.

[bb]

Every time that Kerry opens his mouth his poll points drop. I predict an overwhelming win for Bush.

http://ww2.imagewiz.net/images/hvac/125490_wabbitt.jpg

[TB]

Originally posted by nevada
He is sending others to die to show his bravery, but he was too cowardly to serve even in the safety of a cockpit.




...and Clinton was a better choice why???

Where is the wisdome in double standards? If military service was an issue, why elect a draft doger, if it wasnt an issue then, then why is it now? Did you learn from your mistake?

[James 3528]

safety of a cockpit

What better words define a Dolt?

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by James 3528

safety of a cockpit

What better words define a Dolt?

Agreed. Also, since we don't know where President was how do we know he wasn't in a cockpit somewhere we maybe weren't supposed to be? President Nixon was after all the Commander in Chief.

[johnl45]

Originally posted by rob10
Ask a Kurd They will tell you about saddam's WMD's. The lib Bush haters will always be pu$$ies!!! Why not ask daddy Bush he stood by and let it happen! Now junior is trying to show daddy up by killing more Iraqis. Bush/Cheney have absolutely nothing going but the so-called war on terror, what a joke.

[remember]

first,
there was no nerve agent found,just shells that "could have" contained it.and then again, maybe not.

second,no WMD of the kind stated by this administration specifically, before the invasion,has been found.
none.

to you people,..name one.

and the issue wasn't about a vial in some lab,the issue was about a program and production capability that was vast and massive and "ready for disbursement"at short notice,so as to make it a viable weapon.not just a pipe dream.

and when will you all stop bringing up what saddam did in the 70's and 80's.,because I really don't like this implication that when ghwbush was head of the CIA(77)and vice president(80's), and rumsfeld was special envoy to baghdad(84),they were in cahoots with saddam and enabling him to wreak the havoc he did.just because they gave him money and chemical/biological weapons and protected him in the UN,from censure(richard perle)......ok,ok,maybe those guys are as bad as saddam, but being that his son is president now,we shouldn't blame him for the sins of the father.after all we forgave GHWBush for his fathers trading and profiteering with the germans during WWII(union banking corporation),selling them steel and war materials and profiting from the slave labor they got from auschwitz(I.G.Farben).the shrub has a lot to live up to.after all not everyone can fund revolutions,like his great granddad(george herbert walker) did in 1917 and the bolsheveci revolution.with the "american international corporation,inc. 1915)
you know there is no reason to be suspicious about this "war on terror";just because iraq had nothing to do with 9-11,and the bin-ladens were saved and excused from the country and osama let go at torah borah(maybe).and just because the shrub made his first million from buisness ventures with jim bath being the partner and agent for salem bin laden with arbusto/harken energy and a sweetheart deal of oil rights for the gulf of bahrain while his daddy was pres and having just saved kuwait.(which he bungled due to incompetence.)at least he was able to secretly sell out and make some money ,before the stockholders found out their money was gone)at least afghanistan is the worlds leading producer of heroin again.and who said we didn't get anything for the 200 billion dollars we spent so far.at least the world is starting to hate us,and that just makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.heil bush.

[remember]

robo,
are you insinuating that the shrub was running drugs from south america?I thought his fathers friends started doing that later in the 70's until the 80's ,at least.but there were all those ZAPATA oil rigs in the gulf at the time,and dresser industries has always provided cover assignments for the CIA operations.maybe little george was a hero.maybe he was inventing crack when al gore was inventing the internet.nah..

but ,I guess he does own that twin engine cessna that used to belong to barry seal,the infamous drug runner from the air america/iran-contra days.but when barry was gunned down,it was the sr. bushs home phone # that was in his little black book.and besides ,barry was flying c-130's full of drugs in for the CIA.george isn't rated for that size plane is he?

but you know you may be right.he did have quite a habit ,from all the stories.go figure.

[Edited by remember on 09-12-2004 at 09:13 PM]

[rob10]

You 2 should hhokup and set up housekeeping in afghanistan!! Neither of you deserve the freedoms this country gives!! America, love it or get the hell out of it!!

[bootlen]

SOMEBODY GET A ROOM DEODORIZER...QUICK!

[bobby7388]

Remember; read your post very carefully, you'll see that you contradict yourself.

"and when will you all stop bringing up what saddam did in the 70's and 80's".

You are doing what you ask others not to.
I'd watch very cautiously, the Men in Black may be showing up soon.

[remember]

yeah bobby ,I know.
contradiction...

I'm just being facetious.
I'm sorry that went over your head.



and rob ,again,we love this country,that is why we hate the crimes committed by the bush family in the name of the USA.and why we bash him and his group of plotters,not the usa.
I'm sorry that complicated ideas are beyond your scope and ability to grasp.
maybe I'll try to keep it simple.
maybe not.

[rob10]

Your paranoia is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy outside the normal scope!! Schizophrenia can be treated with meds!!

[bb]

Originally posted by remember
first,
there was no nerve agent found,just shells that "could have" contained it.and then again, maybe not.

second,no WMD of the kind stated by this administration specifically, before the invasion,has been found.
none.

to you people,..name one.

and the issue wasn't about a vial in some lab,the issue was about a program and production capability that was vast and massive and "ready for disbursement"at short notice,so as to make it a viable weapon.not just a pipe dream.




So What Makes Kerry So Right ??? Some Quotable quotes........


Courtesy of the RNC, a plethora of quotes from John Kerry about Iraq's WMD situation. Notice the stark change as soon as the Massachussets liberal decided to embark for the White House.

June 2003

Kerry Said “It Would Be Irresponsible … To Draw Conclusions” That Suggest President Misled On WMD. ABC’S GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: “I know you said you’re agnostic about whether or not he misled the public on weapons of mass destruction. But do you have a hunch on whether you think they hyped the intelligence?” KERRY: “George, again, I think it would be irresponsible of me at this point to draw conclusions prior to all the evidence being on the table.” (ABC’s “This Week,” 6/15/03)

March 2003

As War Began, Kerry Said Saddam Chose “To Make Military Force The Ultimate Weapons Inspections Enforcement Mechanism.” “Senator John F. Kerry … had lambasted Bush’s diplomatic efforts, despite voting last fall in support of a congressional resolution authorizing military action to disarm Iraq of any weapons of mass destruction. ‘It appears that with the deadline for exile come and gone, Saddam Hussein has chosen to make military force the ultimate weapons inspections enforcement mechanism,’ Kerry said.” (Glen Johnson, “Critics Of Bush Voice Support For The Troops,” The Boston Globe, 3/20/03)

Kerry Said Saddam Hussein’s WMD “Are A Threat.” “I think Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction are a threat, and that’s why I voted to hold him accountable and to make certain that we disarm him. I think we need to …” (NPR’s “All Things Considered,” 3/19/03)

February 2003

Kerry Said Leaving Saddam Hussein “Unfettered With Nuclear Weapons Or Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Unacceptable.” (Jill Lawrence, “War Issue Challenges Democratic Candidates,” USA Today, 2/12/03)

Kerry Described Secretary Of State Colin Powell’s Evidence Of WMD In Iraq As “Real And Compelling.” “[Kerry] said the Bush administration has taken too long to make its case for military action, ‘but nonetheless I am glad we’ve reached this moment in our diplomacy.’ Kerry added: ‘Convincing evidence of Saddam Hussein’s possession of weapons of mass destruction should trigger, I believe, a final ultimatum from the United Nations for a full, complete, immediate disarmament of those weapons by Iraq. Over the next hours, I will work with my colleagues in the Senate to fully examine the evidence offered by the secretary for a complete and close reading. But, on its face, the evidence against Saddam Hussein appears real and compelling.’” (Wayne Washington, “Kennedy, Others Question Timing Of Attack But Presidential Hopefuls Back War With Iraq,” The Boston Globe, 2/6/03)

January 2003

Kerry Said, “If You Don’t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.” (Ronald Brownstein, “On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd,” Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)

Kerry Described Threat Of Saddam Hussein With WMD As Real, But Not New. “[W]e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America’s response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world’s response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Georgetown University, Washington, DC, 1/23/03) Now Bush is The Great Miscalculator...charming coming from The Great Vacillator

October 2002

“Mr. Kerry … Said Iraq’s Weapons Of Mass Destruction Posed ‘A Real And Grave Threat’ To The United States.” (Dave Boyer, “Key Senators Of Both Parties Back Bush On Iraq War,” The Washington Times, 10/10/02)

Kerry Questioned Saddam’s Actions With Respect To His WMD Capability. “Why is Saddam Hussein pursuing weapons that most nations have agreed to limit or give up? Why is Saddam Hussein guilty of breaking his own cease-fire agreement with the international community? Why is Saddam Hussein attempting to develop nuclear weapons when most nations don’t even try, and responsible nations that have them attempt to limit their potential for disaster? Why did Saddam Hussein threaten and provoke? Why does he develop missiles that exceed allowable limits? Why did Saddam Hussein lie and deceive the inspection teams previously? Why did Saddam Hussein not account for all of the weapons of mass destruction which UNSCOM identified? Why is he seeking to develop unmanned airborne vehicles for delivery of biological agents? Does he do all of these things because he wants to live by international standards of behavior? Because he respects international law? Because he is a nice guy underneath it all and the world should trust him?” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10171)

Kerry Called It “Naive To The Point Of Grave Danger” To Leave Saddam “To His Own Devices.” “It would be naive to the point of grave danger not to believe that, left to his own devices, Saddam Hussein will provoke, misjudge, or stumble into a future, more dangerous confrontation with the civilized world.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10171)

Kerry Said “Threat Of Saddam Hussein With Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Real.” “The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10171)

Kerry: “I Am Prepared To Hold Saddam Hussein Accountable And Destroy His Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” (Ronald Brownstein, “Democratic Presidential Hopefuls Differ On War In Iraq,” Los Angeles Times, 10/6/02)

September 2000

Kerry Said “There Is Nothing More Destabilizing Or Threatening [To The World] Than Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” “I think all of us are deeply concerned about the degree to which certain countries seem to be contributing to the potential of instability in the world. Obviously, there is nothing more destabilizing or threatening than weapons of mass destruction. We have spent an enormous amount of time and energy focused on Iraq, on Iran, on Russia, on loose nukes, on nuclear materials, and of course on China and on the issue of the transfer of technology to Pakistan.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 9/11/00, p. S8321)

December 1998

Kerry Defended Clinton’s 1998 Attacks Because Saddam “Is Pursuing … Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” “Americans need to really understand the gravity and legitimacy of what is happening with Saddam Hussein. He has been given every opportunity in the world to comply. The president does not control the schedule of UNSCOM. The president did not withdraw the UNSCOM inspectors. And the president did not, obviously, cut a deal with Saddam Hussein to do this at this moment. Saddam Hussein has not complied. Saddam Hussein is pursuing a program to build weapons of mass destruction.”(Sen. John Kerry, Press Conference, 12/16/98)

September 1998

Kerry Said, “‘We’re Going To Have To Make Some Fundamental Decisions About Whether To Follow A Policy Of Containment Or Deprive Iraq Of Its Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” (Eric Schmitt, “U.N. Arms Inspector Who Quit Is Told He Can’t Make Policy,” The New York Times, 9/4/98)

February 1998

Kerry Said Saddam Had Already Used WMD And Had Intent “To Do So” Again. “[T]here are set of principles here that are very large, larger in some measure than I think has been adequately conveyed, both internationally and certainly to the American people. Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East.” (Sen. John Kerry, Press Conference, 2/23/98)

Kerry Said That If Saddam’s Weapon Capability Was Not Eliminated “We Will Be Called On To Send Our Ships And Our Troops At One Point In The Future Back To The Middle East.” “Saddam Hussein has violated … that standard [against using weapons of mass destruction] on several occasions previously and by most people's expectation, no matter what agreement we come up with, may well do so again. The greater likelihood is that we will be called on to send our ships and our troops at one point in the future back to the Middle East to stand up to the next crisis.” (Sen. John Kerry, Press Conference, 2/23/98)

December 1997

Kerry Urged U.N. To Eliminate Iraq’s “Suspected Infrastructure For Developing And Manufacturing Weapons Of Mass Destruction.” “Democratic Senator John Kerry has said: ‘The Security Council should authorize a strong UN military response that will materially damage, if not totally destroy, as much as possible of the suspected infrastructure for developing and manufacturing weapons of mass destruction.’ He added that ‘Saddam Hussein has intentionally or inadvertently set up a test which the entire world will be watching, and if he gets away with this arrogant ploy, he will have terminated the most important multilateral effort to defuse a legitimate threat to global security.’” (“US Lawmakers Threaten Military Action Against Iraq,” Agence France Presse, 12/12/97)

November 1997

Kerry Warned U.S. Senate Of Saddam’s WMD Capabilities. “It is not possible to overstate the ominous implications for the Middle East if Saddam were to develop and successfully militarize and deploy potent biological weapons. We can all imagine the consequences. Extremely small quantities of several known biological weapons have the capability to exterminate the entire population of cities the size of Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. These could be delivered by ballistic missile, but they also could be delivered by much more pedestrian means; aerosol applicators on commercial trucks easily could suffice. If Saddam were to develop and then deploy usable atomic weapons, the same holds true.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 11/9/97, pp. S12254 -S12255)

January 1991

Kerry Acknowledged Saddam Working Toward Development Of WMD “For Years.” “If we go to war in the next few days, it will not be because our immediate vital interests are so threatened and we have no other choice. It is not because of nuclear, chemical, biological weapons when, after all, Saddam Hussein had all those abilities or was working toward them for years ....” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 1/12/91, p. S369)

October 1990

Kerry Said “Iraq Has Developed A Chemical Weapons Capability.” “Today, we are confronted by a regional power, Iraq, which has attacked a weaker state, Kuwait. ... The crisis is even more threatening by virtue of the fact that Iraq has developed a chemical weapons capability, and is pursuing a nuclear weapons development program. And Saddam Hussein has demonstrated a willingness to use such weapons of mass destruction in the past, whether in his war against Iran or against his own Kurdish population.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/2/90, p. S14330)

[Edited by bb on 09-12-2004 at 10:42 PM]

[bootlen]

K

A

B

O

O

M

!

[sadlier]

Originally posted by remember
...second,no WMD of the kind stated by this administration specifically, before the invasion,has been found.
none.

to you people,..name one.

and the issue wasn't about a vial in some lab,the issue was about a program and production capability that was vast and massive and "ready for disbursement"at short notice,so as to make it a viable weapon.not just a pipe dream."Q But, still, those countries who didn't support the Iraqi Freedom operation use the same argument, weapons of mass destruction haven't been found. So what argument will you use now to justify this war?

THE PRESIDENT: We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/g8/interview5.html

[RoBoTeq]

Kerry Said, “If You Don’t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn’t Vote For Me.”

This needs to be Kerry's new election slogan. It is the only thing he has ever said that makes any sense whatsoever and it initself is a contradiction of Kerry.

By the way; since "remember" is not a member of the HVAC community and has no HVAC interests, why is he here? May I suggest that "remember's" only purpose on this site is to upset threads with ultra liberal rhetoric. May I also suggest we simply not take his posts seriously and just ignore him to. He is obvously a plant for some malicous God hating, commie organization.

Just another personal opinion, of course :D

[bootlen]

Who's "remember"?

[johnl45]

Originally posted by market-tech
The left is not and will never be a part of the solution, unless it has to do with more social programs, more taxes, more government, less freedom for the american person, give the country away to illegal immigrants. Take away freedom of speech, unless it suits their needs (Kerry wanted swiftboat ads pulled and "Unfit for command" pulled, but never says a word about M. Moores movie or Moveon.org). They are part of the problem and will destroy this country if allowed in power.
I still don't know what Kerry stands for. First he's for the war, then against the war, he'll have us out of there in four months, 2 years, now I think it's up to 4 years. Can anyone honestly tell me what his platform is, less than 2 months from the election other that "I'm better than Bush, I went to Viet Nam, and oh yea, did I tell you, I got three Purple Hearts." And don't be a moron and generalize "Bush has ruined the coutry". State specific debateable (sp?) facts or don't state anything.
mark my words, when they do lose the election, they will either get a bunch of ambulance chasing lawyers to take it to court or will scream for an impeachment because Bush didn't let them win or some such stuff! Bush/Cheney have no platform other than the war in Iraq. Kerry's platform is on his web site all you have to do is read it and you will see he has a solid program to bring the country back from the mess Bush and company have gotten us into. If you’re against Big Government you won't vote for Bush as he's expanded government spending, corporate welfare, National debt, reduced American freedoms with the Patriot act and lost more jobs than any President since Herbert Hoover.

[James 3528]

Yea, and idiots like you believe that sh!t.

[remember]

well, why did you post my quote and then those of john kerry?

I think kerry is another skull and bones fool like bush.there is very little difference on the real issues,in my eyes,between the two.

and no one doubts that saddam was a player like everybody else in the region,especially isreal.isreal has all the weapons saddam wanted and more and has twice the number of UN sanctions against them.17 to 35.respectively.

I don't doubt there is an extreme likelyhood that saddam hid all kinds of things in the desert and possibly syria or elsewhere.
what I'm saying is that that is only part of the picture.and to focus on only part of the truth and base rationalities on that is disingenuous.and an intellectual fraud.


after all; if nothing important was happening in the world these days and we decided to do a little housekeeping,by taking out saddam ,that would be one thing.but,the fact remains,this war in iraq has done the US and the world more harm than good and was a distraction from the war on terror(if there ever really was one).

because if you look at a larger picture,saddam was contained.now iraq has become a staging ground for all sorts of groups that have bones to pick with the west.
it has cost the "good"relations we had with traditional allies.
and those that were on the fence ,are now more likely to go the other way.

so people here can be as pigheaded and as america centric as they want to be ,but the fact is we can't do whatever we want.

and the proof is in the pudding.we want a "war on terror".but we have only enough might to pick out "little"fish and pick on them.saddams army gave up before they even started to fight.
and the remnants of those forces and reinforcements from all over are what the army is trying to contain to this very day. the US didn't actually fight the country of IRAQ.just remnants and "joiners in" that were looking for a chance to fight america.the same thing happenened in afghanistan.only the zealots are against us.which is what ,1% of the population ,if that.

and to aid us in this endeaver we are looking the other way at countries and regimes that we NEED,in a real political sense.like:
saudi arabia- the country that really did have something to do with 9-11.and with 65% of their population under 18,unemployed and being taught to hate the west at fundementalist schools.that is a time bomb waiting to go off.
pakistan- another country that propped up the taliban in afghanistan,and has been distributing nuclear weapons and material making equiptment to real threats like iran,north korea and libya.and may have many more real ties to 9-11 than iraq and maybe even afghanistan.

and our "friends" like these may be a real threat to us,much more likely and sooner than saddam would have been.
and this vacuum we created ,could still turn out to be a mess.and likely will.

so america hasn't actually accomplished anything with all of its bravado,except make more enemies and untrustable friends.that we don't need.I don't care who you are going to vote for. they (the foreign policy establishment)have goofed and goofed again.and either way you vote,they will remain in power.defacto.

[remember]

sadlier,
that is a good point.

the administration has said they found those two "mobile labs".which is fantasy.

have you seen pictures of those two labs?

they were these old rusty tanks on a semitrailer with mixing valves.with no traces of chemical residue that was conclusivly weapons ,or even likely weapons.
and to make an assumption like that shows bad judgement.or just exaggerrated claims.

it is as much an intellectual fraud as saying those aluminum tubes were for a reactor.despite the enginneers saying they were the wrong grade and unsuitale for the purpose .people can say whatever they want,it doesn't make it true.but when outlandish claims like these come out over and over again,that does show a pattern of dishonesty.

or like the claims that saddam was trying to get yellowcake from niger.
the real story was that somebody "assumed",that because some iraqi's were talking with someone from niger(outside of iraq and niger,at a regional meeting with many other countries there),they figured they were after yellowcake. but the facts from the people in that meeting revealed that the subject of yellowcake,never actually came up in that meeting;.but the only accuracy was that ,yes, someone actually thought that.not that it was true.

and the problem with that too, is that the international agency that is in charge of distributing that yellowcake,would never have allowed such a thing to happen anyway.(not that the black market doesn't exist,but that is a seperate story)



and I would say I'm a hell of a lot more conservative than the folks here who are uncritical in their thinking and liberal enough to believe that bush is telling the truth.
like I've said before.

the republicans these days are the real liberals.they run up the debt,and deficit spending,put america in harms way,with silly foreign policy.reject the constitution and try to breakdown the seperation of church and state.at least bill clintons administration had us running surplus's,and were able to bring spending under control.(not that I'm all that crazy about him either),but he was more conservative than bush.

[bb]

Originally posted by remember
well, why did you post my quote and then those of john kerry?

Unless you are running for president, there are only two candidates and the context of this thread was :

Can we really be comfy about where the chemical and biological weapons and facilities to build nuclear weapons went to when the Iraqi's were able to hide this much from us right under our noses?

Then you threw in the "It's Bushes fault" mix by posting

planes are conventional weapons.
there are no WMDS found.
what happened to all those chemical weapons we sold saddam?
we know he had them,we sold them to him.

but these rightist peeons,want to forget the myriad of weapons the bushies gaurenteed were there.said "we know where they are"(but wouldn't tell the inspectors,when they were there)and all the flip flopping from the administration constantly changing its story,everytime another thing they said turned into dust.

you guys would believe anything you were told.
and go so far as to rehash,something,anything even if it is just shadows on the wall.

the administration are a bunch of screw-ups.everything they touch turns to sh*t.and the loyal idiots in the boobie-hatch just parrot whatever .

nowadays,even saddam is a "WMD".

watch out !!!! HE's going to FAAARRRTTT!!!!!!

So I decided that since Kerry is running for president , he should be under the same microscope that Bush is under on issues of Iraq. So you may hate both ( I think your voting for Kerry ) but one of the two will be president,























AND IT WON"T BE KERRY !:)

[bb]

Originally posted by remember


because if you look at a larger picture,saddam was contained.now iraq has become a staging ground for all sorts of groups that have bones to pick with the west.




There's "BEAUTY" in that war plan !



GET IT ???????

[bb]

Originally posted by remember


or like the claims that saddam was trying to get yellowcake from niger.
the real story was that somebody "assumed",that because some iraqi's were talking with someone from niger(outside of iraq and niger,at a regional meeting with many other countries there),they figured they were after yellowcake. but the facts from the people in that meeting revealed that the subject of yellowcake,never actually came up in that meeting;.but the only accuracy was that ,yes, someone actually thought that.not that it was true.

and the problem with that too, is that the international agency that is in charge of distributing that yellowcake,would never have allowed such a thing to happen anyway.(not that the black market doesn't exist,but that is a seperate story)



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/09/05/1094322642141.html?oneclick=true
By Bruce Johnston
Brussels
September 6, 2004

A row has broken out between France and Italy over whose intelligence service is to blame for the Niger uranium controversy, which led to Britain and America claiming wrongly that Iraq was trying to buy uranium for nuclear bombs.

Italian diplomats say privately that France was behind forged documents that at first appeared to prove that Iraq was seeking "yellow-cake" uranium in Niger - evidence used by Britain and America to promote the case for war with Iraq.

They say that France's intelligence services used an Italian-born middle-man to circulate a mixture of genuine and bogus documents to "trap" the two leading proponents of war with Saddam Hussein into making unsupportable claims.

They have passed to British journalists a photograph that they claim shows the Italian go-between, sometimes known as "Giacomo" - who cannot be identified for legal reasons - meeting a senior French intelligence officer based in Brussels.

"The French hoped that the bulk of the documents would be exposed as false, since many of them obviously were," an Italian official said.

"Their aim was to make the allies look ridiculous in order to undermine their case for war."

According to an account given to the Sunday Telegraph, France was driven by "a cold desire to protect their privileged, dominant trading relationship with Saddam, which in the case of war would have been at risk".

The allegation, which has infuriated French officials, follows reports last month that "Giacomo" claimed to have been unwittingly used by Sismi, Italy's foreign intelligence service, to circulate the false documents. The papers found their way to the CIA and to MI6, and in September 2002 Tony Blair accused Saddam of seeking "significant quantities" of uranium from an undisclosed African country - in fact, Niger. US President George Bush made a similar claim in his State of the Union address to Congress four months later, using information passed to him by MI6.

The French hoped that the bulk of the documents would be exposed as false, since many of them obviously were.

The International Atomic Energy Agency expressed doubts over the documents' authenticity, however, and in March 2003 declared them false.

The suggestion that Italy, driven by its Government's support for America, had forged the documents to help to justify the war in Iraq, caused a furore and has now led to the revelation of new information about "Giacomo". The Sunday Telegraph has been told that the man has a criminal record for extortion and fraud, but draws a monthly salary from the DGSE - the French equivalent of MI6 - for which he is said to have worked for the past five years.

He had an expense account and received bonuses in return for carrying out orders allegedly given him by the head of the French service's operations in Belgium.

"Giacomo" could not be reached for comment on the claims last week at either his home in Formello or at his second home in Luxembourg. American intelligence officials were further misled over Saddam's supposed attempt to buy uranium when France - which effectively controls mining in Niger - told Washington that it had reason to believe that Iraq was trying to do so. "Only later did Paris inform Washington that its belief had been based on the same documents that had tricked the Americans and the British," an Italian diplomat said.

"This was la grande trappola (the big trap). The Americans were now convinced by the French that Saddam really was trying to buy uranium. They thought the French must be right, since not even a gram of uranium in Niger could be shifted without their knowledge."

[motorboy1]

Originally posted by bb

Originally posted by remember


because if you look at a larger picture,saddam was contained.now iraq has become a staging ground for all sorts of groups that have bones to pick with the west.




There's "BEAUTY" in that war plan !



GET IT ???????

So, that's the plan! Go to war against Bin Ladin and the Taliban over 9/11. Good start. Then divert all our troops and resources in the shrub's war of choice over non-existant WMD's(or whatever flip-flop they came up with when that one didn't pan out). The unnecessary and unjust war against Iraq has cost us plenty - to the tune of over one thousand U.S. troops dead for a war we shouldn't even be involved in. What a deadly quagmire Iraq has become. Bush is soley responsible for everyone of our dead troops in Iraq and needs to be held accountable.

Oh, by the way, where is Bin Ladin anyway?

Bush and Co. What despicable scum!

[sadlier]

Originally posted by remember
have you seen pictures of those two labs?

they were these old rusty tanks on a semitrailer with mixing valves.with no traces of chemical residue that was conclusivly weapons ,or even likely weapons.
and to make an assumption like that shows bad judgement.or just exaggerrated claims.No, I haven't seen the pictures. Please post the documents and pictures that substantiate your claim.

...republicans... run up the debt,and deficit spending,put america in harms way,with silly foreign policy.reject the constitution and try to breakdown the seperation of church and state.at least bill clintons administration had us running surplus's,and were able to bring spending under control.(not that I'm all that crazy about him either),but he was more conservative than bush. How is America being put in harms way when terrorists are being stopped, or at least slowed down, from attacking us further? What proof do you have that they are trying to break down the seperation of church and state? Bill Clinton with the democratic congress gave us a tax increase on gasoline right off the bat; His further efforts began slowing the economy down and the signs were there before Bush ever got in to office... and that was good? Spending was brought under control only AFTER a republican congress was in place to "twist Clinton's arm" in to doing the "balanced budget" which was a fiasco anyway. Clinton's proposed budget when the Republican congress came in to power was a joke and political maneuver so that the government would shut down and he would play the blame-game. Clinton = tax hikes, Bush = tax cuts. Even to the last day Clinton was playing politics by enacting an order for stringent water cleanliness which was based on unfounded claims and he knew that many municipalities could not afford; Then when Bush repeals the crass order they would accuse the Bush administration of trying to poison the waters. I don't find Bush very conservative in many of his acts, but saying that Clinton was more conservative is lacking evidence.

[RoBoTeq]

All ye liberals listen up;

the United States's war on terrorism is not against only Bin Laden and his support groups. The war on terrorism is against any faction that has shown to be a threat to the free world and in particular, to the United States.

Terrorist Muslim groups are everywhere and that is where we will go to get them. Muslim countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the like are doing their own in house cleaning of Muslim terrorist cells. Iraq was supporting Muslim terrorists as well as having spit in the face of the world by disregarding UN sanctions.

In Yemen, which is one of the few Muslim countries we are not currently bordering with American troops, we took out a car full of Muslim terrorists to let Yemen understand that they will either work with us or we will do what is needed to eliminate their giving safe haven.

The war on terrorism is working. Muslim terrorism has been flushed out and is on the run. Muslim nations that used to openly oppose the US are now being a lot more agreable as is seen with Pakistan and Libya. We are winning this war and have taken it away from US soil in order to fight it.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by motorboy1



Oh, by the way, where is Bin Ladin anyway?



He's dead, like your brain.

[bootlen]

Very good post, Robo. The terrorists are running like roaches when the kitchen light suddenly turned on at 2 a.m. Problem is, the dems/libs want to live in the dark, allowing the roaches to have their way. God help us.

[market-tech]

Originally posted by sadlier
No, I haven't seen the pictures. Please post the documents and pictures that substantiate your claim.

[B]...

As you will see in a earlier post in this same thread, I asked for documentation or sources of information regarding these misrepresentations and exagerations. Still all I see is "Bush and his oil buddies did..." , Bush ruined the country", "Kerry good, Bush bad, by the way do you know he went to Viet Nam" blah blah blah. Post your info, your source of information, your documentation or shut up. You libs are like a bunch of whiney 2 year olds or "girley men". (Oh, and please, don't make up the documents on your computer and say they are real).
Now it's real simple, let's try it:

1) Statement of Information

2) Source of Information

3) Documents or site where documents can be viewed.

[bb]

Originally posted by motorboy1

Originally posted by bb

Originally posted by remember


because if you look at a larger picture,saddam was contained.now iraq has become a staging ground for all sorts of groups that have bones to pick with the west.




There's "BEAUTY" in that war plan !



GET IT ???????

So, that's the plan! Go to war against Bin Ladin and the Taliban over 9/11. Good start. Then divert all our troops and resources in the shrub's war of choice over non-existant WMD's(or whatever flip-flop they came up with when that one didn't pan out). The unnecessary and unjust war against Iraq has cost us plenty - to the tune of over one thousand U.S. troops dead for a war we shouldn't even be involved in. What a deadly quagmire Iraq has become. Bush is soley responsible for everyone of our dead troops in Iraq and needs to be held accountable.

Oh, by the way, where is Bin Ladin anyway?

Bush and Co. What despicable scum!

Your stupidity has outrun you.

O.K. Tell you what, let's get Kerry in office and then we'll invite all of the Islamic Wacko's to come to your house and drink Kool-Aid.















I think Not !

[air1]

You drank the Kool-Aid.

[bootlen]

Hey, air1. BB's talking about political koolaid, not the real stuff. Only dems/libs drink the pol stuff.

[air1]

I was referring to jones town.

[bootlen]

Oh. Maybe you have bb confused with rob10. :D

[rob10]

HEY, I resemble that remark!! :D LOL

[bb]

Originally posted by air1
I was referring to jones town.

Well I'm still wriggling here, but thanks for your kind concern ! ;)

[remember]

sadlier,it's up to you to find pictures of those trailers.they exist.were on the evening news for a while and repeated as the story fell apart.

as for "documentation" of evidence.gimme a break.

we all know here, I could get any "evidence" I wanted ,if I go to the right site. these issues are supposedly real,yet all the various sides here have their own facts.and I don't have time or the inclination to pretend to lead the way for you.this is where it is up to us to think for ourselves.

and actually,I don't like clinton(he was a council of foreign relations member too)which is to say he is too cozy with special intrests to be trusted.but at least the economy was good while he was in office.(so not that he can take credit for the economy,just like reagan wasn't responsible for the economy back in the eighties.)it is the poor judgement and hollow words of bush that make him such a joke.and his personal vendetta against saddam that did bring about this war in iraq,which is beyond a stretch to say is part of the war on terror.

and just like no one can prove this war on terror is doing any good,it can't be quantified in any way to say it is hurting the world.due to the fact that everything that is happening today will only be judgeable in the future.not before then.

"for those with eyes to see" and "those with ears to hear",it is plain as day that there may be a global power grab going on,and terrorism is a convienient excuse for the troop movements.our 9-11 and the russian school thing have given our respective gov'ts the same blank check to do things that would not otherwise been done.and the one thing that can be said is,"things are not as they seem"

this" sides" thing is tiresome,and keeping the "real" possibilities of where we are as a country from being discussed.

first off as a non-supporter of the "two-party trap",I say they are both the same bird,with right and left wings.

a larger issue is the possible set up of the united states by various countries around the world to get us divided and economiucally and militarily stretched beyond a point of return.the european union,is larger than the us.population wise and economically.china is loving our quagmire for sure.while they expand with foreign capital. and putin is soaking the fact we need him to the extreme;and who cares about democracy in russia anymore.not bush.and these are "real" things that are making america vulnerable.now to some extent, but more so in the future.and our political pundits and leaders are also exploiting the differences between us,to get a little for themselves and to take the heat off themselves.and both parties are selling american jobs and industries to the multinational intrests,which make more profit by moving where costs are lower,and that ain't here.and it shouldn't be,we are better than that.and they have no allegiance to america,her jobs,enviroment,people,or sovergnty for that matter.yet they want to pretend like the schoolkids saying the pledge of allegience in the morning makes up for their deals with china and russia.so that is what gets talked about.hot button issues that don't mean a damn thing.

joe wilson went into detail about the yellowcake story. that is the horses mouth.at least one of them.the documents forged,among many others,show that we are not able to trust anybody.and this gov't of ours can't be trusted either.it can't be trusted to have "A"good intention, and it can't be trusted not to screw things up.which is a conservative view.bush is no conservative.he may wear the clothing,but he disguises his walk for "the" walk.

I'm sure that anybody here that has actual personal experience with the diplomatic rainbows,can vouch for the fact that there are many agendas.and no one of them can control things. which is why when things are done ,strange bedfellows may have been the cause.so there is no reason to trust any particular group,because they have all "sold"out their loyal supporters at one point or another for the agenda of the week.

and the one common denomonator is money,and the ability to claim more of it.same old same old. and we bicker over abortion,or gay marrige,if i cared i'd be a joke too.that is undisciplined ,untempered liberty.drowning in shades of grey.

[bootlen]

Whoooaa man! That stench is all over the place again.

[market-tech]

remember,
The burden of proof is on you. You make the statements, put up the proof, documentation and sites or don't state it. You have time to spew your propaganda, take an extra second and put down your source. Without proof or documentation, any argument is void, that simple. Opinions, as strong as a person may believe, are not necessarily fact. Opinions are like armpits (usually use a different part of the anatomy) everyones got them, most of them stink.

[rob10]

Smokin some BAD dope!! Only an altered mind could think these things up then continue to twist them in a different way everyday!!

[air1]

Right on Remember! The truth shall set you free, or make you totally depressed. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

[remember]

proof of what?

what do you want proof of market?

that jobs are going overseas ,following the same pattern as when jobs went from the north to the south,in search of cheaper labor.

do you want proof of what joe wilson said in many interviews and op-ed pieces?or maybe are you waiting for the results of that grandjury convened about the whitehouse leak that outed his wife valerie and cost the united states a valuable intelligence asset in the middle east;saudi arabia and the saudi-american oil co(ARAMACO)to be specific.

proof of the "non-"chemical labs,which were most likely used for some "normal"thing?

do you want proof of who owns what?and a time line of the shifting sands of ownership and and association,with an emphasis on familial connections including all the various family names that accumulate as daughters get married and bring other family names into the family.or even what % shares of stock ?or are you looking for historical backrounds and voting habits of various circles of friends concerning the %of stock held collectively,and the companies they sit on the boards of?or are you looking for the overlapping of peoples public careers and the private sector jobs they have as well as the interlocking academic backrounds/careers.(rockefeller and ford foundations or the carnegie endowment)

or proof of those lists i've typed before,as to some of the people in the council on foreign relations?www.cfr.org.or some information of their beginnings.?read,"tradgedy and hope,a history of the world in our time"by carroll quigley(pub.1966/1974).bill clintons teacher at georgetown .

you know I could go on but ,you would have to be serious and look for yourself.

and when you are looking,you have to get"conspiracy theories"out of your head.you have already been taught that conspiracies only exist in the past,at the lower levels of the world and in other countries.(mark thatcher).
just because bush and kerry and porter goss are all members of the same "secret society" formed in 1832 with a patronage to the bavarian illuminati of weishaupt",that is all coincidence.and more sensational than substantive. by the way the council could be said to have the same lineage,and through the cecil rhodes and british affilliates.

get past labeling conspiracies and look at buisness models. all buisness's need to have a plan.they all network.they all manipulate whatever is in their power to do,to achieve their desired goals.and they also change according to the current climate and personalities at the time.they have dissention within as to plotting their own course.and some things are secrets and some are mysteries.and don't think I'm saying these people are omnipotent,or all controling.just a very powerful accumulation of connections.(conflicts of intrest really)

when you notice where our history has been influenced by this "buffer fringe" and realize their importance cannot be overstated,as to their effect on the past century.then you may get past the vacuum of today,and the bickering like everything is new and this all just turned out this way.and we all get to have our own opinion about it.because it is all happening at the same time.

and I'm not spewing propaganda.my words have no import.i'm communicating ideas.propaganda is when intrests tell you what to think.(like the american enterprise institute,or brookings ,or rand,or carnegie endowment)all I'm saying is,"have you ever looked into this,this way."

classical said something the other day like he had read some of this stuff and found it to be baseless.he mentioned the "tri-lateral commission".that sounded to me like looking at something from the standpoint of looking for conspiracies and not finding one.(trilateral commission is just a rockefeller oriented group that seems like a smokescreen)even the council was formed as a "front" group.and has undergone several changes in the past 85 years.nowadays it is getting public exposure and is legitimizing itself and being what it has always claimed to be ,a non-partisan think tank.like its sister the royal institute of international affairs.both organizations are the pre-eminent venues for getting the most sophisticated authoratative views of the world policy situation.look for "foreign affairs" ,it is a council publication.all other news media could just cover the globe from the pages of foreign affairs and give 10 times better coverage of the world.but they don't.they would rather appeal to the basest impulses and habits of humanity,fueling this heated rhetoric on both sides.

and an interesting note would be every year the council publishes a list of their members(though some are not listed because an afilliation with them would jepordize their "sensitve"positions.this was borne out in the congressional "reece committee" investigations of 1953-54.investigating tax-exempt foundations and their influence.

one list i have from '88,has most of the important executive branch appointees from the clinton administration and many from this bush administration and the people in this years primary race. and many of the living ones from previous administrations.
I also have one from 1961,which is the same way.the architects of the vietnam war and the candidates that ran against them.and 1970.

and I've seen others and the song remains the same.they get there,before they dominate the national scene.

the same is true for powerhouses in congress,some from the supreme court.hundreds from the media,owners,executives,reporters

and the same is true for the top executives in the fortune 100.

and that organization is just a small slice in the pie of interconnected organizations from all over the world.

so to say,you want proof.you gotta look.there is too much for me to compile for you.and my choice might cloud your impression.so if you want it ,go get it.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
proof of what?

what do you want proof of market?

that jobs are going overseas ,following the same pattern as when jobs went from the north to the south,in search of cheaper labor.

do you want proof of what joe wilson said in many interviews and op-ed pieces?or maybe are you waiting for the results of that grandjury convened about the whitehouse leak that outed his wife valerie and cost the united states a valuable intelligence asset in the middle east;saudi arabia and the saudi-american oil co(ARAMACO)to be specific.

proof of the "non-"chemical labs,which were most likely used for some "normal"thing?

do you want proof of who owns what?and a time line of the shifting sands of ownership and and association,with an emphasis on familial connections including all the various family names that accumulate as daughters get married and bring other family names into the family.or even what % shares of stock ?or are you looking for historical backrounds and voting habits of various circles of friends concerning the %of stock held collectively,and the companies they sit on the boards of?or are you looking for the overlapping of peoples public careers and the private sector jobs they have as well as the interlocking academic backrounds/careers.(rockefeller and ford foundations or the carnegie endowment)

or proof of those lists i've typed before,as to some of the people in the council on foreign relations?www.cfr.org.or some information of their beginnings.?read,"tradgedy and hope,a history of the world in our time"by carroll quigley(pub.1966/1974).bill clintons teacher at georgetown .

you know I could go on but ,you would have to be serious and look for yourself.

and when you are looking,you have to get"conspiracy theories"out of your head.you have already been taught that conspiracies only exist in the past,at the lower levels of the world and in other countries.(mark thatcher).
just because bush and kerry and porter goss are all members of the same "secret society" formed in 1832 with a patronage to the bavarian illuminati of weishaupt",that is all coincidence.and more sensational than substantive. by the way the council could be said to have the same lineage,and through the cecil rhodes and british affilliates.

get past labeling conspiracies and look at buisness models. all buisness's need to have a plan.they all network.they all manipulate whatever is in their power to do,to achieve their desired goals.and they also change according to the current climate and personalities at the time.they have dissention within as to plotting their own course.and some things are secrets and some are mysteries.and don't think I'm saying these people are omnipotent,or all controling.just a very powerful accumulation of connections.(conflicts of intrest really)

when you notice where our history has been influenced by this "buffer fringe" and realize their importance cannot be overstated,as to their effect on the past century.then you may get past the vacuum of today,and the bickering like everything is new and this all just turned out this way.and we all get to have our own opinion about it.because it is all happening at the same time.

and I'm not spewing propaganda.my words have no import.i'm communicating ideas.propaganda is when intrests tell you what to think.(like the american enterprise institute,or brookings ,or rand,or carnegie endowment)all I'm saying is,"have you ever looked into this,this way."

classical said something the other day like he had read some of this stuff and found it to be baseless.he mentioned the "tri-lateral commission".that sounded to me like looking at something from the standpoint of looking for conspiracies and not finding one.(trilateral commission is just a rockefeller oriented group that seems like a smokescreen)even the council was formed as a "front" group.and has undergone several changes in the past 85 years.nowadays it is getting public exposure and is legitimizing itself and being what it has always claimed to be ,a non-partisan think tank.like its sister the royal institute of international affairs.both organizations are the pre-eminent venues for getting the most sophisticated authoratative views of the world policy situation.look for "foreign affairs" ,it is a council publication.all other news media could just cover the globe from the pages of foreign affairs and give 10 times better coverage of the world.but they don't.they would rather appeal to the basest impulses and habits of humanity,fueling this heated rhetoric on both sides.

and an interesting note would be every year the council publishes a list of their members(though some are not listed because an afilliation with them would jepordize their "sensitve"positions.this was borne out in the congressional "reece committee" investigations of 1953-54.investigating tax-exempt foundations and their influence.

one list i have from '88,has most of the important executive branch appointees from the clinton administration and many from this bush administration and the people in this years primary race. and many of the living ones from previous administrations.
I also have one from 1961,which is the same way.the architects of the vietnam war and the candidates that ran against them.and 1970.

and I've seen others and the song remains the same.they get there,before they dominate the national scene.

the same is true for powerhouses in congress,some from the supreme court.hundreds from the media,owners,executives,reporters

and the same is true for the top executives in the fortune 100.

and that organization is just a small slice in the pie of interconnected organizations from all over the world.

so to say,you want proof.you gotta look.there is too much for me to compile for you.and my choice might cloud your impression.so if you want it ,go get it.

I have heard all this sh!t before Numb Nuts and will only comment on one thing. Joe Wilson is a liar and he has been outed as such. . Joe Wilson on his internet resume had his wife's place of employment listed. It was no secret. The problem with your post other than being too long is that they are filled with endless rants and ramblings mingled with bull **** and generalizations. Your all over the damn radar screen. You think creating a fog and a cluster f**k of a post creates validity and substance. Your a god damn train wreck.

[bobby7388]

You do need to try and focus your post a bit better, it seems like you cut-&-paste alot of your responses.

And also , Abby Hoffman was looking for you.

[market-tech]

James,
Thank you, I could not have said it better!!

[johnl45]

Originally posted by market-tech
James,
Thank you, I could not have said it better!!
I guest you didn't have much to say either as you do realize anyone who disagrees with James and his right-wing ideology is automatically a liar.

[market-tech]

johnl45,
No, I think James hit the nail on the head. For days during this thread I've been asking the Libs to put up some type of documentation to support all the propaganda they've been spewing. All I see is, "Bush ruined the country", Bush belongs to super secret society, Kerry good, Bush bad.
I've asked someone to pin down what Kerry stands for, and I know part of this is my fault because I didn't specify when and he changes his stand more than I change socks. Lets say, what's his stand as of 09-16-04 at 8a.m.
Y'all better wake up and smell the roses, look at the situation we are in, there are people in this world looking to destroy this country and I don't know about you but I'm not up to learning a new language or religion at my age. Flip Flop is not the man to handle the situation.

[air1]

Market,

Do you really believe that our goverment is at risk of being overthrown? Do you think that any other country could occupy us and force us to speak adifferent language and practice a different religion? Do you believe Kerry or any American President would allow that to happen. Man, you really drank the kool-Aid.

[Edited by air1 on 09-16-2004 at 12:21 AM]

[James 3528]

Originally posted by johnl45

Originally posted by market-tech
James,
Thank you, I could not have said it better!!
I guest you didn't have much to say either as you do realize anyone who disagrees with James and his right-wing ideology is automatically a liar.

Shut up, liar!

[air1]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by johnl45

Originally posted by market-tech
James,
Thank you, I could not have said it better!!
I guest you didn't have much to say either as you do realize anyone who disagrees with James and his right-wing ideology is automatically a liar.

Shut up, liar!

LOL, at least you have a sense of humor.

[market-tech]

Originally posted by air1
Market,

Do you really believe that our goverment is at risk of being overthrown? Do you think that any other country could occupy us and force us to speak adifferent language and practice a different religion? Do you believe Kerry or any American President would allow that to happen. Man, you really drank the kool-Aid.

[Edited by air1 on 09-16-2004 at 12:21 AM]

I think Kerry is such a spineless wimp that is so out of touch with reality, that he would sell us down the pike and not even know what he was doing. The terrorists would love to see him and the ambulance chaser in power. By the time he got done waiting for the U.N. to tell him to put his pants on with the zipper in the front, it would be over.

[sadlier]

Originally posted by remember
sadlier,it's up to you to find pictures of those trailers.they exist.were on the evening news for a while and repeated as the story fell apart.Ok, so that will be one point that you simply cannot prove by your own "beating around the bush" admission. But now just think about it for a second; You relied on the liberal evening news to give you an unbiased or fair report??? You not only hear BS but you can also CBS! Seriously, though, how do you think Sadham would disguise a mobile chemical lab, as a big motor home with "WMD LAB" written all over it? Of course not! The best place to hide something is in plain sight. Not even you would suspect an old tank as being a lab; Sounds like he outsmarted even you! Now this is where you've got to think a little deeper: Would it be wise to climb in to such a mobile lab if there were residue in it? Of course not, it might kill the person! Why would Sadham want to risk his chemist? Furthermore, since we see that Sadham was trying to hide things what makes you think he wouldn't try to disassemble a chemical weapon lab in order to hide it? One more point: Has any person that worked closely with Bush ever stated that Bush lies? Not that I've heard of. The Democrats make the unfounded claim as they play the politics game to try to get more votes. There is no evidence that Bush is a liar, Bush said that they found the mobile labs, Bush has the intelligence available to him that is not available to the evening news, and you cannot disprove that the labs were found; Yet you sit back and continue to make the unfounded claims and expect us to believe them. Your credibility is being seriously questioned unless you can prove your statements.

[RoBoTeq]

Originally posted by bobby7388
You do need to try and focus your post a bit better, it seems like you cut-&-paste alot of your responses.

And also , Abby Hoffman was looking for you.


I knew "remember's" style was familiar; I would not be the least bit surprized if "remember" isn't really our old friend "Sundog".

[TB]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq


I knew "remember's" style was familiar; I would not be the least bit surprized if "remember" isn't really our old friend "Sundog". [/B]


Naahh, sundog was rational........kinda

at least he could construct a decent plagerization of other peoples thoughts.

[Edited by TB on 09-16-2004 at 03:53 AM]

[market-tech]

sadlier,
You mean to tell me that CBS isn't the source of all that is true and right and wholesome? Oh please, say it's not so!! A lot of people take what they see in liberal media as gospel.
It's been fun to see the libs with their unfounded claims and the lack of ability to substantiate them, but I'm gonna be hanging out over in the technical section for the most part. That's really why I joined this forum. I'll chime in occasionally over here but this thread had become boring.
All I still hear is Bush bad, Kerry good, did I tell you he went to Viet Nam, Bush liar, Kerry in Cambodia on Christmas eve, Bush Bad national guardsman. Kerry 3 purple hearts but never bled.
Enjoy all, see you over in technical!!

[Edited by market-tech on 09-16-2004 at 09:11 AM]

[tab-tech]

Originally posted by RoBoTeq

Originally posted by bobby7388
You do need to try and focus your post a bit better, it seems like you cut-&-paste alot of your responses.

And also , Abby Hoffman was looking for you.


I knew "remember's" style was familiar; I would not be the least bit surprized if "remember" isn't really our old friend "Sundog".

Thats really strange cause, I was thinking the exact same thing.
Even the name "Remember" speaks of the same candid, go nowhere style.
Probably registered on with a new screen name cause the SunDog gig was taking some pretty hard hits. LOL. :)

[Edmund Forsthe]

my dad a world war 2 veteran use to tell of this guy who worked in his mess kitchen, one day was making omelets and got a shell fragment in his eye, he went to sick call and six weeks later got a purple hearth for the shell fragment in the eye, he told that proff you dont have to bleed to get the medal, just the right words in the paperwork.