Puron VS Ozone

[hvac4u]

other tech said friday that puron attacks the ozone, just for not as long. i disagreed, but did not say anything as it was my first day there! :)

is there any truth to this?

[NormChris]

Puron is R-410A. It does not affect ozone. For more complete information go here.

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=45769

[hvac4u]

thank you, that is what i thought

[bootlen]

Wow, Norm. That's good stuff there. Thanks.

[i_got_ideas]

Yep, that's a good write up. I printed it a couple months ago and had all the guys at the shop read it. There is only 3 condensers in town with 410a in them and they are serviced by the Carrier dealer so we really haven't had any experience with 410a and it was a great article to give the guys a grip on just what it is.

[hvac4u]

what are the refrigerants that make up R410?

which one will leak first due to fractionalization?

that is a wealth of info BTW norm, thanks!

[NormChris]

Originally posted by hvac4u
what are the refrigerants that make up R410?

which one will leak first due to fractionalization?

that is a wealth of info BTW norm, thanks!



R-410A is a binary (two-part) near-azeotropic mixture of difluoromethane and pentafluoroethane. But, don't get caught up in the technical issue of knowing these chemical names. Learn what is important for its proper application and use.

Fractionation is of no concern whatsoever. There is only a three-tenths of a degree temperature glide.

[BaldLoonie]

What about global warming? Isn't it worse on that aspect than R22?

[NormChris]

Originally posted by BaldLoonie
What about global warming? Isn't it worse on that aspect than R22?


Not according to the experts and here is why. Although R-410A has a slightly higher global warming potential (GWP) than R-22, the overall GWP for 410A is less because its higher operating efficiency reduces energy consumption thereby reducing the carbon dioxide emissions from power plants.

Scientists are concerned with the Total Equivalent Warming Impact or (TEWI).

Norm

[royc]

If R410A doesnt affect ozone, then why do we need to recover it.

Roy

[thighway]

No offense, but that attitude is what got us in this
mess.

[NormChris]

Originally posted by royc
If R410A doesnt affect ozone, then why do we need to recover it.

Roy

Because it has a Global Warming Potential.

[i_got_ideas]

But if it still has global warming potential why use it. Why not use R-22 and make systems more efficient. I don't mean just boosting the SEER rating of condensers, I mean make all installations follow strict guidlines. In order to get your energy rebate you have to have your CSER (no I don't mean SEER) tested by an energy company technician. Once the system, not the unit performs to 95%+ CSER(or HSER for furnaces) you get your rebate. Making sure all systems are running efficiently would create less demand on power plants than switching refrigerants. We could leave R-22 in place and with the systems all running as efficiently as possible we all win..........and we could weed out some hacks too.

For more information on SER testing get the June issue of Contracting Business magazine, page 12 of the residential comfort guide.

I think we are going to start testing this method out and seeing if it is viable to do bi-annually during planned maintenance.

[Edited by i_got_ideas on 09-07-2004 at 07:54 PM]

[condenseddave]

Global warming potential exists with just about evedry refrigerant ever available, including, I believe, ammonia.

It's there. It's not going away. The very air we exhale contributes to global warming.

Get over it.

They're trying to get us to reduce the amount of gases released with global warming potential, which is hy your must recover, reclaim, recycle ALL Flourocarbon refrigerants. You can never eliminate it, but you can cut it back.

The place to start, would be to start making energy with ind and nukes more than we do. Shut down the coal burning steam generators, and throw in some nice, long lasting U235. THAT will reduce our global arming emissions.

Why would we continue to use 22 (A gas that not only has global warming, but also is known to damage the hypothetical ozone layer) when you can get higher efficiencies easier with 410A???

[kim]

I read someplace where the safest power generating industry is nuclear. I think it was an OSHA report.

We can't get rid of coal. USA has too much of it. That is the reason Bush would not back the Kyoto treaty.

Another thought.
Most people do not realize how many sattalites run on nuke plants. They just use the hot core with thermopiles. If one of those were to burn up in the atmosphere on re-entry, there would be several more grams of radioactive material scattered over the earth.

[no8no3]

Why is it that 410a is so much safer than co2? both cause warming, but co2 can be dumped into the atmosphere without fear of reprisal by anyone. We recover all refrigerants, safe or not, and dump the leading contributor to the problem. It's all about the money.

[maxair]

I dont know how much 410a you have dealt with but
I have and have my concerns.Two months ago I pulled
a burn out compressor on a 2 year old system the
evaporator coil had a multiple leaks in the tube
sheet.Replaced evaporator coil and txv added driers.The polyester oil in unit had formed the
worst case of green slime oil contamination I have
ever seen.Last week the new txv went bad had a bad smell
in the txv.Once again changed driers.pulled deep vacuum
broke with dry nitrogen,pulled 2nd vacuum.During the
vacuum could smell burnt freon.During the process
of all this bs work on a 2 year old system the carrier
lablel 410a curled up on the side to show r22 so I
called our shop and they say it must be false one
of there big sale pithches that puron coils copper
would be thicker to handle the higher pressure.This is
probably the 25th puron evap coil I have found leaking.
Not to count the 100 or so r22 evap coils I have pulled
in the last 8 years for carrier not counting the other
manufactures.So if these refrigerants
are so bad why dont they make these big corps tighten up.
Maybe all this recycle buisness is because the patten on
r12 and several other big dupont refrgerants went out
in 1993 the same year the regs were introduced.The dupont
corps is a big campain conrtibutor to the Bush family.
Oh by the way every time the space shuttle takes off
they dump 1000 tons of fluorocarbons (twice as bad as r12)
some of it directly into the ozone.Funny they didnt mention
that in the monteal protocol.

[kim]

R12 was developed right after WW1. The patent has been gone for a very long time. R22 was developed in the 30's. It patent has expired too.