"The Ductmonster" teaser pics.

[mark beiser]

I'm not incredibly proud of this system, but its location is the result of the homeowner making rooms out of our first 2 choices of locations. :(

This is one of the downstairs systems in a 6,300 sq ft PollySteel constructed house. Trane XL19i system serving 2 zones using EWC zone control and dampers with an electronic bypass damper.

These pics are fuzzy because I had to edit the gama levels due to poor lighting.

Presenting "The Ductmonster" as first viewed when you enter the attic space.

http://home.comcast.net/~mbeiser/ductmonster/ductmonster.jpg

From the other end.

http://home.comcast.net/~mbeiser/ductmonster/ductmonster2.jpg

The service access side is actually fairly clean!

http://home.comcast.net/~mbeiser/ductmonster/service1.jpg

What lurks behind "The Ductmonster".

http://home.comcast.net/~mbeiser/ductmonster/ERVs.jpg

Glad they didn't get any wilder with the foam, I think I'm gona need access to the dampers on this zone box. :(

http://home.comcast.net/~mbeiser/ductmonster/zonebox1.jpg

The systems are being tested for duct leakage next week. It has to be below 5%, I'm very confedent it will be. We used almost 15 gallons of mastic on the 3 systems and thier returns. :D

I'll get some better pictures when the lightings in and I go back to install the zone controls and wireing.

[tinner73]

just curious what is a 6300 sq' house worth in texas???

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by tinner73
just curious what is a 6300 sq' house worth in texas???

Duno, this one is well over a $million though. There was a lot of really sloppy crap done in this house. Poor supervision and communication from the builder. Days went buy that the framing, plumbing, electrical, and security system contractors didn't have anyone in the house that could communicate in english.
The framing was just ugly, but the outside walls and master bedroom suite are all Pollysteel construction, so I guess it won't fall down at least.

[fastfred]

Duno, this one is well over a $million though. There was a lot of really sloppy crap done in this house. Poor supervision and communication from the builder. Days went buy that the framing, plumbing, electrical, and security system contractors didn't have anyone in the house that could communicate in english.
The framing was just ugly, but the outside walls and master bedroom suite are all Pollysteel construction, so I guess it won't fall down at least.

You dont always get what you pay for!!! Sad.

[mark beiser]

I did figure out a way to get rid of the Tejano music for a couple of days. Call the INS and see if they raid the place. Woulda bought us at least a couple of days of peace. Just wish I had actually done it. :D

[wolfdog]

Originally posted by tinner73
just curious what is a 6300 sq' house worth in texas???

Depends on where it is.

Saturday, I replaced an evaporator coil in a 3800 ft² house that is on the market for $640,000.

I have a customer with 5500 ft² worth $907,000.

Another customer has 11,000 ft² sitting on 10 acres right on the lake in the middle of Dallas.
Market value $6 million.

[ct_hvac_tech]

It is just amazing some of the hack work that goes into these multi-million dollar houses.

You get so many people who just don't care. It is really sad. You would think some of these hackers would be scared sh*tless into doing stuff right after seeing disasters like these:

http://www.kcstar.com/projects/hyatt/Hyatt.pdf

Some of you may remember this grusome inncodent in 1981 where over a hundred people died, all due to poor engineering.

If thise doesn't scare the hacks out there, I don't know what will!

[tinner73]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ct_hvac_tech
[B]It is just amazing some of the hack work that goes into these multi-million dollar houses.

You get so many people who just don't care. It is really sad. You would think some of these hackers would be scared sh*tless into doing stuff right after seeing disasters like these:




that was kinda my point.....you've got a million $ house here and the poor HO doesn't even get a trunkline. this is why i come on here and complain about the "how to connect flex" threads. any butcher can throw up flex and they almost always look like what you have here. sorry but the belongs on the OTHER thread.

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by tinner73
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ct_hvac_tech
.....you've got a million $ house here and the poor HO doesn't even get a trunkline.

Duno where a trunkline could have been run and get to the areas to be cooled on this zoned system. Like I said, this was the result of the homeowner making rooms out of our first 2 choices of locations for it. There was little or no thought given to HVAC while the house was being desined, the floorplan for both floors changed from the prints we were given, then changed 2 more times after we started. No HVAC contractor even got prints to the place until it was being framed. The homeowner is a friend and long time customer of my boss, and is getting exactly what he deserves and paid for. I hate to even think of what he would have gotten from the next highest bidder, it was a good $15k less than us for the 3 systems.

Its ugly, and yes, this system belongs on the wall of shame, but its going to work perfectly. /shrug

This house reminded my why I don't like new construction, or doing much instal work at all.

[Shophound]

There was little or no thought given to HVAC while the house was being desined,

That has to be the case so often in so many of these new homes I see going up around here. They seem designed only to sell, to make a big splash, with everything from plumbing, wiring, and HVAC hacked in as an afterthought. Heck, why stop there? The framing and sheathing are hacked as well. As is the foundation quite often.

I've seen enough of this crap to know I would never buy a new tract or even "custom" house. They're whacked together with about as much care as I would have toward a car if I drove it in a demolition derby.

I also wonder who actually designs these monster houses? If architects are doing it, they must be tokin' on some weed before hitting the CAD program or drafting table, 'cause so much of their stuff looks to be designed while on drugs! :D

As for the Ductmonster, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do when they hand you a turdpile of a house design and expect you to polish it.

[tinner73]

c'mon...you're kidding right, check the first pic, plenty of room for SOME kind of trunkline. this is a clear instance where it is profit over quality. this is a real disaster. you HAVE to care......a little anyway. if this is the kind of work you do....quit the trade.

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by tinner73
c'mon...you're kidding right, check the first pic, plenty of room for SOME kind of trunkline. this is a clear instance where it is profit over quality. this is a real disaster. you HAVE to care......a little anyway. if this is the kind of work you do....quit the trade.

The pictures are fuzzy and poorly lit, so maybe you didn't notice the zone dampers with large ducts that go to the the two 16x16x36 metal boxes that have the ductowrk for each zone tapped into them.
The mess you see there is sitting on top of the 3" of concrete and 12" of foam and steel that make up the cieling for one of the zones.
The other zone off of it is only accessable through the ends of the floor truss system and only has four 16"x14" spaces to pass through.

I havn't seen a trunk system used in a house down here that was under about 25 years old, exept for a handfull of multimillion dollar homes. Virtually all of them I see in older homes don't work worth a darn because they were poorly installed, sized for heating, etc.

Maybe a properly designed and installed trunk system works better than a flex system that is properly sized. I wouldn't know, as I have almost no experience with them in the last 11 years.

All the flex duct bashing on this forum gets kind of old. All I see is knee jerk reactions and opinion, no constructive comments at all. There is more than one CORRECT way to do just about everything. Everything we are doing in this house meets or exeeds the current UMC, and manufacturers recommendations.
The system pictured has less than 3% duct leakage and will deliver the required CFM of air to each room. In addition to controling the temperature, humidity levels and air changes in the house, there is also extra capacity available if the homeowner chooses to have 50+ guests over for a party. What more do you want?

The only sin on this system is that it is ugly because so much had to be cramed into a small space. Death waits for the person that uses up any of the wifes storage space, wich is where I was standing when I took the first pic. Hell, this crazy 4'9" tall woman fought me over the need to drop a cieling in a back halway down from 12' to 10'6" so I could actually get return air from her dining and living areas...

I'm interested in learning better ways to do things, but all the knee jerk bashing and egos I see on this forum just piss me off.

[dash]

Originally posted by tinner73
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ct_hvac_tech
[B]It is just amazing some of the hack work that goes into these multi-million dollar houses.

You get so many people who just don't care. It is really sad. You would think some of these hackers would be scared sh*tless into doing stuff right after seeing disasters like these:




that was kinda my point.....you've got a million $ house here and the poor HO doesn't even get a trunkline. this is why i come on here and complain about the "how to connect flex" threads. any butcher can throw up flex and they almost always look like what you have here. sorry but the belongs on the OTHER thread.


Is there something about a "Trunkline",that means if you don't have one it won't work/

Something that says ,if you have one ,it must be a great duct design,regardless of the sizing or performance?

[wolfdog]

The big problem in this area, is that 99% of the builders will not pay for a high quality residential duct job.
You can preach quality and efficiency, but they won't pay for it.
So if you are going for the residential new construction market.....and have any hope of getting work.....you bid the same kind of jobs as everybody else.

It aint nice....it aint pretty....but it is a fact.

[Edmund Forsthe]

the cheapest bid always gets the job any way what do homeowners know, just as long as the house gets sold and they get their money.

[2hot2coolme]

Originally posted by tinner73
c'mon...you're kidding right, check the first pic, plenty of room for SOME kind of trunkline. this is a clear instance where it is profit over quality. this is a real disaster. you HAVE to care......a little anyway. if this is the kind of work you do....quit the trade.
Ehh, y u pickin on da dude? :) Honestly, when i first saw the pic, the first thing on my mind was...what's so impressive about running flex? My 10 year old niece can do that!