Swiftboat veterans for the truth

[woods mech]

For Immediate Release August 19, 2004

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statement by Navy Veteran Van Odell, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

in Rebuttal to Michael Dobbs, Washington Post, August 19, 2004


A courageous, soft spoken man of the Midwest, Larry Thurlow has a heart bigger than the great plains and a commitment to truth and honesty that is boundless. He is under attack, because John Kerry is feeling the heat of truth at the hands of this honest man and others like him.

The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969. I was there. I saw what happened.

The mine's detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.

All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry's boat. Kerry fled.

Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men. Larry's leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely. This single act of meritorious service -- the chief requirement of the Bronze Star -- should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.

To reiterate, only one enemy weapon was deployed that day -- the command-detonated submerged mine that disabled PCF-3. Larry Thurlow's citation contained references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire," because that was the language chosen by John Kerry who penned the spot report on the action that day. There was no "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" received that day. John Kerry's report was fiction -- a hoax on the entire chain of command. Larry Thurlow's heroism and meritorious service, however, is real.

To me Larry is one of the heroes of our country. He is a man who served his country when called and who returned home to be a productive citizen. Larry and men like him are the strong backbone of our society. I am proud to have served with him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is a statement from John O'Neill responding to Senator John Kerry's August 19, 2004, attack on The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Mr. O'Neill is the author of Unfit for Command.

-----

The Navy did not send Republicans or Democrats to the island of An Thoi. We are responding and dealing with something that is deeply personal - our own record and the record of our unit in Vietnam. These are issues Senator Kerry raised and we regret that he uses ad hominem attacks instead of dealing with the actual facts. He is doing that because he can't deal with the truth.

For example, for 35 years he said he claimed that one of the turning points of his life was spending Christmas Eve and Christmas illegally in Cambodia, libeling our commanders and our nation with accusations of war crimes. That is a totally false statement because he was no where near Cambodia on Christmas Eve and Christmas day. The Kerry campaign continues to flip flop on the Cambodia issue.

In addition, Senator Kerry closed the Democratic National Convention with a story in which he claimed that five of the boats fled on March 13 after a mine went off and he came back. His campaign is now admitting that he fled and the rest stayed.

Attacking our organization does not respond to the facts that occurred in Vietnam. Senator Kerry says that he has learned to charge into an ambush in connection with this, instead he is fleeing down the river from the facts.

[infwsdm]

can we call him 'kerry the coward' now?

He made a big mistake bring up his vietnam experience to try and get elected.

He should be ashamed of himself for his actions when he came back to the US.


and then he lied about throwing his medals away.

[johnl45]

Just too bad it’s all hearsay by the Bush Swift Boat Veterans, as they can't produce one document to prove their case. Anyone with half a brain can see this for what it is, another smear campaign by the same right-wing Republicans that tried to smear John McCain who is turly a man of honor for having the guts to speak out against the Republican dirty tricks.

[rob10]

This truth that has come out about Scary Kerry has cost him the slight lead he had after the convention. His defending this has taken a chunk out of the federal matching funds that he has left to run the campaign. Truth is that the Republicans will soon have our convention and gain the momentum to sweep the election. Plus the truth is that Bush has not used any of his federal funding. The dumbocrats are wounded, sweeping upstream against a strong current, and Hitlary is probably gathering her committee for 2008. BTW She did not run this time because she knew she could not beat an incumbent wartime president.

[Edited by rob10 on 08-23-2004 at 08:19 PM]

[remember]

the swift boat veterans for truth are quick becoming a joke,and a bad one at that.even bush is smart enough to keep clear of this one.

they have only "their"(a bunch of guys in the backround,at best)stories,without any corroberrating evidence.

and their story isn't true according to the people that were there,up close.william Ruud is sinking the swift boat for truth guys now.or the records of the day.they are beginning to look disgraceful.

john o'niel with a nixon era grudge going on.and alot of texas money are behind it,go figure.

*just a note*
john o'niel ,on TV the other day said, "john kerry RAN away and fled,then returned in five minutes".
where in a boat and on a river ;did he run to and return from in a matter of minutes?Did he go get a beer?maybe a pizza?


but more importantly......what cans of worms are they staying away from?

is the investigation of events going to cloud the legitimacy of military records and the medals and honors bestowed on "everybody"?
surely some people were really heroic and in situations where they earned the right to be called a hero.and some were there,and that makes them a hero,and they were wounded.and somepeople may have been bums,and wounded .does that earn them the title ,"hero",(even if they were smuggling heroin out of asia in the bodybags of american gi's.)(air america/CIA)

even george bush sr. has his detractors;like his wingman that said he didn't deserve his medal.
(I can't resist)or his son georgeW,who can't even seem to be able to prove that he showed up to duty.but can prove he had close ties to Jim Bath(bin-laden representative)arbusto energy.

but are the republicans backing this ad,wanting to open wartime investigations of everybody?

because even if JFKerry was a "medal whore"that somehow got out in 4 mos.,his presidential opponent wasn't even there.
and surely the "benefit of doubt" given to kerry and his claims,are the same many other veterans are getting.and do people really want to rock that boat?



but all this talk from sides saying "there was fire" and there was no fire",and the media contributing to this distraction,has me saying,"I wish they would have a publicised and spirited debate as to whether there was any "fire" going on in the gulf of tonkin,that started the whole mess in the first place."

the gulf of tonkin resolution was written by the bundy's (CFR)before that "attack" supposedly ever happened.
admiral james stockdale was a fighter pilot that day ,flying over the gulf;he testified that there was no fire coming from the shore.as did many others.

if they want to spend bickering time.why don't they spend it on something that actually was important.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by johnl45
Just too bad it’s all hearsay by the Bush Swift Boat Veterans, as they can't produce one document to prove their case. Anyone with half a brain can see this for what it is, another smear campaign by the same right-wing Republicans that tried to smear John McCain who is turly a man of honor for having the guts to speak out against the Republican dirty tricks.

It is kinda looking like Kerry can't produce some documents. Like his attendance recods to intel meetings. And then there is this.

Kerry flip-flop
on war footage?
Defensively said 2 years ago 'no intention' to use Vietnam film for campaign purposes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: July 29, 2004
9:39 p.m. Eastern


By Art Moore
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/kerryhomefootage.jpg


During the Vietnam War, Sen. John Kerry filmed re-enactments of combat scenes with a home camera.

On the defensive for filming himself during the Vietnam war, John Kerry once told a reporter he had "no intention" of using the footage for campaign purposes, but some of it will be featured tonight in a video of introduction before his Democratic presidential nomination acceptance speech.

New York Times Executive Editor Bill Keller was a columnist when he wrote in a Sept. 7, 2002, piece of his encounter with Kerry after having mocked the senator for "pulling out a movie camera after a shootout in the Mekong Delta and re-enacting the exploit, as if preening for campaign commercials to come."

Keller said Kerry invited him to his office to see some of the 8-millimeter footage, which had been transferred to videocassette.

Keller wrote: "'It is so innocent,' [Kerry] said by way of introducing his youthful cinematic effort, adding a little defensively, 'I have no intention of using it' for campaign purposes."

The introduction video, however, by Steven Spielberg protege James Moll, makes prominent use of some of Kerry's footage to depict him as a war hero capable of becoming the nation's next commander in chief.

A Kerry campaign spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

Moll told the New York Observer that after starting his video project, "it was a pleasant surprise that [Kerry] had taken his own footage while in Vietnam."

"When Army Green Beret Jim Rassman is talking about how John Kerry saved his life, I'm using some of that footage," Moll said. "It shows the swift boat and various shots of the swift boat, and some firing like you see in the water. Bullets in the water."

But Moll said the bullets are "just illustrative," not from an actual event.

In his column, Keller said he changed his mind about Kerry's motives for taking the film footage, but a former swift-boat crewmate who witnessed some of the future presidential nominee's filming insists it wasn't a normal thing to do.

Steve Gardner, who served for two and a half months under Kerry from late 1968 to early 1969, has no doubt that all of the footage was re-enacted.

"It was just dumb," he told WorldNetDaily. "Every bit of that was staged. Nobody in his right mind is going to take an 8-millimeter camera in a firefight to take pictures of John Kerry."

Gardner, of Clover, S.C., said he didn't express it, but thought to himself, "What an idiot."

"The stuff he was doing was just antics," said Gardner, a gunner's mate 3rd class. "Nobody knew at that time he had a hidden agenda. We just thought it was goofy stuff."

But some of Kerry's swift-boat colleagues say they were well aware then of the future politician's ambition.

John O'Neill, who took over Kerry's swift-boat command, says in a book scheduled for release next month, "Unfit for Command," that a joke circulated among his colleagues that Kerry "left Vietnam early not because he received three Purple Hearts, but because he had recorded enough film of himself to take home for his planned political campaigns."

The book charges "Kerry would revisit ambush locations for re-enacting combat scenes where he would portray the hero."


The Boston Globe reported in 1996 that Kerry's films appeared "as if he had cast himself in the sequel to the experience of his hero, John F. Kennedy, on the PT-109."

Thomas Vallely, a fellow veteran and one of Kerry's closest political advisers and friends, told the Globe, "John was thinking Camelot when he shot that film, absolutely."
_________________

[infwsdm]

kerry reminds me of a self serving pussy.

did he get a purple heart for a scratch? and was he the one who brought it to the attention of the people handing out the medals?

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
the swift boat veterans for truth are quick becoming a joke,and a bad one at that.even bush is smart enough to keep clear of this one.

they have only "their"(a bunch of guys in the backround,at best)stories,without any corroberrating evidence.

and their story isn't true according to the people that were there,up close.william Ruud is sinking the swift boat for truth guys now.or the records of the day.they are beginning to look disgraceful.

john o'niel with a nixon era grudge going on.and alot of texas money are behind it,go figure.

*just a note*
john o'niel ,on TV the other day said, "john kerry RAN away and fled,then returned in five minutes".
where in a boat and on a river ;did he run to and return from in a matter of minutes?Did he go get a beer?maybe a pizza?


but more importantly......what cans of worms are they staying away from?

is the investigation of events going to cloud the legitimacy of military records and the medals and honors bestowed on "everybody"?
surely some people were really heroic and in situations where they earned the right to be called a hero.and some were there,and that makes them a hero,and they were wounded.and somepeople may have been bums,and wounded .does that earn them the title ,"hero",(even if they were smuggling heroin out of asia in the bodybags of american gi's.)(air america/CIA)

even george bush sr. has his detractors;like his wingman that said he didn't deserve his medal.
(I can't resist)or his son georgeW,who can't even seem to be able to prove that he showed up to duty.but can prove he had close ties to Jim Bath(bin-laden representative)arbusto energy.

but are the republicans backing this ad,wanting to open wartime investigations of everybody?

because even if JFKerry was a "medal whore"that somehow got out in 4 mos.,his presidential opponent wasn't even there.
and surely the "benefit of doubt" given to kerry and his claims,are the same many other veterans are getting.and do people really want to rock that boat?



but all this talk from sides saying "there was fire" and there was no fire",and the media contributing to this distraction,has me saying,"I wish they would have a publicised and spirited debate as to whether there was any "fire" going on in the gulf of tonkin,that started the whole mess in the first place."

the gulf of tonkin resolution was written by the bundy's (CFR)before that "attack" supposedly ever happened.
admiral james stockdale was a fighter pilot that day ,flying over the gulf;he testified that there was no fire coming from the shore.as did many others.

if they want to spend bickering time.why don't they spend it on something that actually was important.

Why not contain your train wrecks to one subject? And I would not be so fast to judge the Swift Vets. One in fact was on Kerry's boat. And it wasn't in Cambodia either. Why do numb nuts like you move so fast to dishonor them and do not find to pick apart Kerry's lies?

Kerry himself said that service in Vietnam should not matter
when Clinton was exposed as a draft dodger. Why does it matter now. It matters because it is the only thing Kerry is running on and now we get dumb a$$ post like yours from all the dumb$$es out there.

[James 3528]

double post

[remember]

kerry is a person that would manipulate this whole thing for personal advantage.I would believe that he felt like he needed to go to vietnam to further his political carreer,after college.he is calculating.
which means at least he is more competant than bush.

and the shades of the stories coming out aren't really mutually exclusive,that fog of war thing excuses people for not really knowing what was happening around them.so nevermind what really happened,we will move as if the stories given and the records of the day actually have merrit.and those stories(true or clouded)are the record.

james you see so clearly why the democrats are full of it,which is why I figure you must be a republican on "the down-low" with your boys at the republican watering hole.
because you a a hypocrite for not showing the same degree of critical investigation for the republicans.Is that the only way you can get any?

fat, stupid and republican is no way to go through life.get a clue.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by remember


fat, stupid and republican is no way to go through life.get a clue.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[bobby7388]

The "fact of the matter" is that John Kerry will not release his military records, ohh, by the way, Bush was forced and did release his.
Well!!! why won't Kerry release his?
Is it because he doesn't have do?
Is it because he doesn't want to?
is it because he doesn't dare to?

All this will be cleared up as soon as Kerry releases his full and complete record portfolio.

So the nay sayers really have no leg to stand on until their guy comes clean. Agrue all you want but if he is the guy you say he is then there should be no proplem with the American public scrutinizing his service records, the record he is running on by the way.

[woods mech]

How the left has to resort to lies about 240+ honorably discharged veterans in order to make their disgraceful presidential candidate look good.
I'll believe a real vet over a fraud like Kerry anyday.

[johnl45]

Originally posted by bobby7388
The "fact of the matter" is that John Kerry will not release his military records, ohh, by the way, Bush was forced and did release his.

So the nay sayers really have no leg to stand on until their guy comes clean. Agrue all you want but if he is the guy you say he is then there should be no proplem with the American public scrutinizing his service records, the record he is running on by the way.

You finally got one thing right, Bush had to be forced to release his record but there was nothing to read as no one could find him. How about his chicken **** running mate Cheney? Now here's a professional draft dodger if there ever was one. We can't afford another Bush two was two too many.

[remember]

bush released his records...sort of.

his records that had his buddy's name jim bath,which came out a while ago,were "cleansed"(redacted),after 9-11,to escape his bin-laden connections.
and his records are hardly"worked out".they still don't know where he was.nobody has come forward yet to collect that 10,000 dollar reward for anybody that actually served with bush,while he was missing.
but surely,shrub was on duty saving texas from charlie.
now that is a record.


these republicans are hoping that kerry would run on vietnam,because it has nothing to do with all the screw-ups of this administration.so they attack him, and make him respond,just to kill time.
that is lame.
kerry may point out that he served ,while bush did not(not that I care),but being the repubs,don't have any good news,they resort to their old dirty tricks.ann richards,john mcCain have seen the same thing from the scum master karl rove,and this time ,like the others ,it is to create a deception.

and the "swift boat veterans for truth" just prove that there are many a low-life in the military too.just like everywhere else.
(maybe them and kerry)most likely.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
bush released his records...sort of.

his records that had his buddy's name jim bath,which came out a while ago,were "cleansed"(redacted),after 9-11,to escape his bin-laden connections.
and his records are hardly"worked out".they still don't know where he was.nobody has come forward yet to collect that 10,000 dollar reward for anybody that actually served with bush,while he was missing.
but surely,shrub was on duty saving texas from charlie.
now that is a record.


these republicans are hoping that kerry would run on vietnam,because it has nothing to do with all the screw-ups of this administration.so they attack him, and make him respond,just to kill time.
that is lame.
kerry may point out that he served ,while bush did not(not that I care),but being the repubs,don't have any good news,they resort to their old dirty tricks.ann richards,john mcCain have seen the same thing from the scum master karl rove,and this time ,like the others ,it is to create a deception.

and the "swift boat veterans for truth" just prove that there are many a low-life in the military too.just like everywhere else.
(maybe them and kerry)most likely.


Yea, all those Veterans were wrong. Michael Moore is right.
All those Veterans are wrong. You are right.

Speaking of scum.

[remember]

who said anything about mike moore?

again you lost contact with reality.
and speaking of scum,I didn't mention you either;james.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
who said anything about mike moore?

again you lost contact with reality.
and speaking of scum,I didn't mention you either;james.


You get the point, back in your hole.

[bobby7388]

Originally posted by johnl45

Originally posted by bobby7388
The "fact of the matter" is that John Kerry will not release his military records, ohh, by the way, Bush was forced and did release his.

So the nay sayers really have no leg to stand on until their guy comes clean. Agrue all you want but if he is the guy you say he is then there should be no proplem with the American public scrutinizing his service records, the record he is running on by the way.

You finally got one thing right, Bush had to be forced to release his record but there was nothing to read as no one could find him. How about his chicken **** running mate Cheney? Now here's a professional draft dodger if there ever was one. We can't afford another Bush two was two too many.



I really enjoyed your attempt at deflection, let's forget about Kerry's record and instead focus once again on Bush's.
Well!! my friend, let's stay on the subject and explain to me why Kerry still has not been forced to full disclosure?
I'll gander to say you really have no idea why, or want to know for fear of the truth, so I'll expect some other response, possibly something about Bush's daughters this time.


You know what's really ironic? people are upset that Bush cut out early to work on his political career while in the reserves.
Kerry cut out early of a war all the while putting peoples lifes in danger and fabricating lies to further his political career, and folks call this heroism. People for Kerry must be on crack.

[CoolCopperUSMC]

To those that are knocking the Swift Boat Vets: YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!! But more on that later.

First let me say that I am a proud card carrying member of the VFW, 3rd generation. I am sure there are other members on here also.

Personally I dont care about either ones service, a lot of people never served, and for some to talk down Bush in the TNG, is an insult to everybody who serves in their States National Guard in this country. That job is just as necessary as the others in defense of this country. Otherwise it wouldn't exist!

I respect all service people, Not saying all are perfect, there is always the 10% misfits, like the Abu Prison guards on trial, there are idiots in the military. But for Kerry to come back and betray, dishonor and denounce all those guys publicly is unforgivable. Then later on in life come back conveniently as the hero. Kinda funny he wrote all his own warrants, Kerry is kinda like what we used to call a PX hero, ( Buys ribbons he doesn't rate from the base store) Except what he did was much worse in my book.

Then there is MikeMoore, (somebody mentioned) Who makes movies Criticizing People who are Serving this country, But yet has never done a damn thing for this country himself.
It is easy to Talk Sh_t from the bleachers! I would love to see his fat butt wearing a uniform, taking orders somewhere he does not want to be,, at least I can respect that. That's probably a different Post.

Anyhow Now to the Swift Vets, I will believe these guys any day over Kerry. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with Honor.
As My fellow VFW members and I will probably agree on, Real combat Veterans dont brag about their experiences or Highlight them. If any thing they like myself down play them, We were just doing our job, nothing special over the other guy. There were heroes, tons of heroes, I considered Pat Tilman a Big Hero before he died. But usually the ones who are making the most noise at veteran functions or bragging about their service to get elected are the 'wanna be' and the 'never was' guys. They are easy to see, especially to the average vet. These guys saw Kerry slinging his bull and did something about it.

This of course is my opinion: If a guy from my old platoon was running for office and he was really embellishing his actions, and I was there and knew different, of course I would do the same thing those Swift Vets are doing. It is about Honor and Pride. To some that may not be much but to us it is everything.

We have to represent all who made the ultimate sacrifice.

[bootlen]

It is about Honor and Pride. To some that may not be much but to us it is everything. [Posted by CoolCopperUSMC]

================================================== ==========

Of course you are quite correct, Cool. Problem is, Kerry and his lemmings are clueless as to the definition of "honor" and "pride".

The (less than a) man Kerry is an abomination before all the U.S. Navy and the rest of the U.S. armed forces.

If what he says is true about the atrocities, he, by law, should be brought up on charges. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes. If they are not true, he is a traitor to the marrow. Either way, he doesn't belong in a position of leadership.

[bobby7388]

Originally posted by CoolCopperUSMC

As My fellow VFW members and I will probably agree on, Real combat Veterans dont brag about their experiences or Highlight them. If any thing they like myself down play them.


Absolutly, you hit the nail on the head with this one sentence.

[CoolCopperUSMC]

Originally posted by bootlen
Either way, he doesn't belong in a position of leadership.



Thanks Guys, I totally agree, I used to think the same thing about Clinton and Hoped it would keep him out of office, Boy was I wrong.. I also used to think a Demo BullDyke couldnt be elected Arizonas Govenor, Wrong again.

This election coming up really makes me nervous.

[johnl45]

Originally posted by CoolCopperUSMC

Originally posted by bootlen
Either way, he doesn't belong in a position of leadership.



Thanks Guys, I totally agree, I used to think the same thing about Clinton and Hoped it would keep him out of office, Boy was I wrong.. I also used to think a Demo BullDyke couldnt be elected Arizonas Govenor, Wrong again.

This election coming up really makes me nervous. They say things come in threes and you think Bush is going to be re-elected, wrong again.