PCV-3J-C1-D2

[pringlel]

Anyone have a manual they could share?

[climpro]

you got mail , pcv m-1 manual

[pringlel]

You made my week ,thank you so much!

[Chiller Guy]

My God man that thing is older than dirt. What is the serial #. They are (were) good, solid machines. Any particular problem or just need maint info?

[pringlel]

serial number is LSF19764. I think previous contractor over charged it , I can see refrigerant carry over in the second stage sight glass sounds like liquid hitting the impeller. Shut the machine down and checked shut down level. Refrigerant was above the sight glass on the evap. Pulled out 250 lbs, to about 2/3rd of sight glass. Unable to load it up to check approach at design capacity Due to low side surge.:munching: I have a very high approach at partial load. So I think i am going to drop the evap head inspect and brush the tubes I think i
Anyone know design pressure drop on evap and condenser?
Is it possible to have liquid refrigerant overflowing the economizer into the second stage, that line was very cold as well as the second stage at the sight glass? Since removing refrigerant seems to have taken care of the carry over liquid for the economizer. Any thoughts are welcome as i am very unfamiliar with these tranes.:) The manual is a big help i can see i didnt do the shut down level check correctly. If anything i may still be slightly overcharged, after cleaning the evap tubes i will get a better approach reading
I have no idea how i get the icon of the fellow eating popcorn lol

[supertek65]

good question
i would assume that under low load conditions liquid could carry over from the top of the economizer into the second stage igv????????

but i would think at that point there would be liquid carry over at the first stage also??????????

i would like to know how that goes!

Frank

[supertek65]

if you have a high approach at low load you will have a very high approach at high load!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jayguy]

your s/n is probably a 'L5' or 'L6' instead of an 'LS'

if it is a 2 pass evaporator and a 2 pass condensor, then at 95F condensor leaving and 44F evaporator leaving, you are looking at approximately 385 tons @ 318 kW (with water). 780# R11 charge, 7 gallons of oil. if you have an 'RPS' motor (listed on the motor nameplate) then your charge would be 820# R11.

evaporator, WATER: minimum flow: 292 gpm @ 2.85 feet, maximum: 1,070 gpm @ 27.50 feet

condensor, WATER: minimum flow: 364 gpm @ 2.00 feet, maximum: 1,337 gpm @ 21.00 feet

[pringlel]

I am impressed, thank you sir :)

[Chiller Guy]

Jayguy beat me with the numbers for the unit but I agree. I think it is a 75 or 76 vintage unit. I beleive C1 -D2 indicates the flow arrangement for the tube bundles. Do you have a single pass evap? Carryover sounds like BB's hitting the wheel and the volute will be cold in the area down under the purge and above the oil sump (practice the laying on of hands).You may have an oil fouled evap causing the carryover. Pulling/distilling and weighing in the charge may be a good starting point IF time allows. Of course fouled tubes are always an issue but usually evap tubes do not get fouled on the water side as its a closed system (hopefully).
Any history on the unit yet? Still running R-11? What changes (if any) have been made? Rebuilds? Last time seals were looked at? and on, and on, etc.
Remember K-I-S-S. Check all the easy things first

[pringlel]

Jayguy beat me with the numbers for the unit but I agree. I think it is a 75 or 76 vintage unit. I beleive C1 -D2 indicates the flow arrangement for the tube bundles. Do you have a single pass evap? Carryover sounds like BB's hitting the wheel and the volute will be cold in the area down under the purge and above the oil sump (practice the laying on of hands).You may have an oil fouled evap causing the carryover. Pulling/distilling and weighing in the charge may be a good starting point IF time allows. Of course fouled tubes are always an issue but usually evap tubes do not get fouled on the water side as its a closed system (hopefully).
Any history on the unit yet? Still running R-11? What changes (if any) have been made? Rebuilds? Last time seals were looked at? and on, and on, etc.
Remember K-I-S-S. Check all the easy things first

The machine was rebuild in the early 90s and then again it may have been rebuild a few years ago last part i havent confirmed.
Definitely sounds like liquid hitting IGV or impeller. I notice the sound together with a surge. liquid splashing up on the 2nd stage sight glass, economizer line to second stage very cold . Discharge off the second stage into the condenser radically drops in temperature. Has anyone measured discharge superheat on these machines at design conditions?
Just curious A oil saturated evap, will have a high approach but a low discharge superheat? Time is an issue but i really want to get this chiller right . So i will probably pull the evap heads and refrigerant charge and attempt to distill. Thank you for your help guys, I am having a blast around this old machine. Playtime will be over if i dont get it right lol :)

[stickerhead]

My God man that thing is older than dirt. What is the serial #. They are (were) good, solid machines. Any particular problem or just need maint info?

Watch out! I resemble that remark! Just a CVHA with and old control panel. The first machine I overhauled was a 165 ton CTV with am model starting with YE built in 1958. Had a high side float and brash vanes.

[Chiller Guy]

Stickerhead.

I converted one of those 1958 models to R-123 for Du Pont. We tore everything off but the shells and bundles and installed a "Tri-Star " conversion. They were built like tanks and weighed about the same.
That was 15-20yrs ago +/- and as far as I know its still running.

[stickerhead]

Stickerhead.

I converted one of those 1958 models to R-123 for Du Pont. We tore everything off but the shells and bundles and installed a "Tri-Star " conversion. They were built like tanks and weighed about the same.
That was 15-20yrs ago +/- and as far as I know its still running.

Why? Was it landlocked?

[Chiller Guy]

Pringle.

I'm going from memory here (and I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast) but the liquid line out of the econo has an orfice assembly. Whats chances of a restriction there from past rebuilds (Rags, Rust, etc) If you are pulling liquid thru the econo vent stack the level would have to be above the eliminators in the econo chamber ,or real close. Some body check me on the eliminators in the econo - Thanks

If the unit is deinventoried, pulling that liquid line is not a big deal. The metered orfice plate and the well rounded orfice are in the bottom flange at the evap connection. Have some gkt material handy.

If we keep going we will have the machine scattered all over the floor.

[Chiller Guy]

Sticker-
Yep!

It was right in the center of a machine room that was tight. The old comp went out in pieces and we had to grease the 3 stg to get it into place. There was no way to get new bunlles into the area without major construction.

[deltap10]

If 2 pass evap 5 or 6 deg approach is normal. Disch temp 130 to 140 @ 85 condensing. Nothing like the new machines which are often around 1 deg approach on both vessels. I doubt Trane would have submittal on that old a machine but you could try. Sometimes customer has startup data which includes submittal. Still one running here with L3A serial. In FL evap shells and evap gage port tend to rust through.