View Full Version : heatpump Nu22 , not 410a ? Whaaat?
08-15-2004, 10:47 AM
parker should soon have a Nu22 txv, but manufacturers are not all following the 410a train to expense...
ask americangeothermal mfr. and the nations baking industry, and others using 20+ million pounds , to date...
Anyone can call icor int'l and find
as I have,
freezers work perfectly with r-12 replacement NONFLAMABLE HOTSHOT
and ice machines r502, etc,
producing more ice per day with oneShot (502-replacements)
and nu22, (best with certan r500 txv's) working efficiently, and less expensively as for any service or equipment needed.
Whaaat 's th' matter???
08-15-2004, 12:57 PM
Check out RS-44. Latest R-22 0 ODP true drop in (no retro fitting or oil changes) that runs more efficiently than R-22. The fact that everyone's not jumping on the 410a bandwagon doesn't surprise me at all.
Gtjon...You speak Klingon very well
08-16-2004, 02:15 AM
I bet by the time the phaseout actually happens, there will be several replacements other than 410a and manufacturers will be making equipment to use them. Then there will be able 20 new drop-ins. In a few years, the Air Conditioning world is going to be just like refrigeration - A different gas in every unit and who knows what's in there. I can hardly wait...
We're all going to have to start driving box trucks to have room for all the different refrigerants and recovery tanks.
[Edited by dschwab9 on 08-16-2004 at 02:18 AM]
08-19-2004, 09:54 PM
All the research has been done and the manufacturers are all apparently in agreement that 410A is here to stay FOR NEW EQUIPMENT. As the phaseout approaches, I'm sure many (drop in) replacements for 22 will come about. It's too soon right now. You have to remember, in a free market there has to be money to be made for a product to be marketing and distributed. For now 22 is still readily available and cheap. In commercial, I honestly haven't seen a unit with 410a yet. As for residential, if you haven't jumped on board yet and begun installing 410a for systems 13 and above, you are behind the times and your competition will bury you. If 410a turns out to not be the next great thing, the customer can't blame you.
I'm not old enough to know but weren't they saying R-500 was going to replace 22 30 years ago but it quickly faded away. Ever work on one of those for an hour and scratch your head until you realized it was 500!
08-19-2004, 10:18 PM
Sure do. Standing there in a pair of worked coveralls and busting my brain wondering what the...After getting caught a couple of times I figured out what to look for next time. Live and learn and that's what field experience is all about...the best education.
08-19-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by sonc
Gtjon...You speak Klingon very well
I agree. Reading his posts hurts my head. It's just an AC unit, not brain surgery. If you want to use your refrigerant go ahead, who's stopping you.
12-09-2004, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry to disappoint some of you, but it is highly unlikely you will see any refrigerants other than R-410A used in new air conditioning or heat pump equipment. There are about a dozen reason, but here are 3 biggies:
1) These "R-22 Drop-in" blends are all LESS efficient than R-22. Every one of them that we've seen. To use them in new equipment would require much more refrigerant, copper, and compressor displacement that is needed for R-410A based systems. This puts them at a significant cost and size disadvantage. A "NU-22" 13 SEER air conditioner would have to be much larger than an R-22 based equivalent system. An R-410A 13 SEER system can be designed to be smaller than an R-22 system.
2) These blends all have glide that makes them difficult to service, and results in recovered refrigerant that can't be reclaimed - it has to be completely reblended by the manufacturer if it has glided out of spec which is pretty easy to do after a couple of seasons with a small vapor-side leak. AC makers in Europe that used R-407C for a while soon learned this lesson, and are switching to R-410A. R-410A has an almost insignificant glide, and can be topped-off or reclaimed easily and repeatedly.
3) R-410A is available from multiple refrigerant companies and is globally used and available. R-410A is the replacement not just in the States, but in Asia and Europe. Carrier can make 410A air conditioners in China and sell them in Germany and know that they can be serviced. York can make 410A units in Texas and sell them in Saudi Arabia, etc. This global standardization allows for significant cost advantages.
Remember that these "drop-in" blends are designed to mimic R-22 so that they can be used in existing in R-22 systems. The best they can do is come close to R-22 performance. R-410A was specifically designed to be a next-generation product for new equipment. You don't see new icemakers using R-409A, so don't expect new HVAC systems using similar R-22 retrofit blends.
I can't say that something else won't be invented in the future, but there is nothing so far that has been shown to be more energy and cost-efficient than R-410A. Since all of these new refrigerants use the same 4 molecules, we've pretty much looked at all of the possibilities.
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