Recovery Question

[jdenyer]

When you guys recover say R-134A and then go to recover say R-22 how deep a vacuum do you pull on your recovery units. Right now I pull 1000 microns and call it good. Should I be pulling a deeper vacuum? Thanks in advance to all who answer.

[R12rules]

I am NOT a pureist when it comes to recovery.
Whatever you do, it will be beyond what most have been doing the last twelve plus years, I am sure.

If you completed recovering a blend then wanted to transition over to a non blend, the residual amount left inside your recovery system would probably be classified as "de-minimus".
If you vacuum your recovery system to 1000 microns before you begin a new recovery ... sure. That would be a safe practice.

My only question is WHY?
With blands, they are not going to be returning them to factory specs.
With R22, it is being phased out shortly here. So it will not be recycled pretty soon itself.

Why Bother?

[Dad]

As for what we do...


Before we recover we just use the recovery machine to pull down an empty tank. This way we know the recovery unit will pull and is in good working order and the tank has some sort of vacuun on it. About 10Hg.

We don't worry about what was in there before unless it was a burn out. We keep a seperate 20lb tank for burn outs.

1000 microns, in my opinion, is overkill but everyone has their own comfort zone.

[jdenyer]

Thanks for the info guys. I just didn't want to be contaminating my recovered refrigerants. I can pull a 1000 microns in about 15 minutes. I just didn't want to go lower if I didn't have to as that would take way to long. From the sounds of it what I've been doing so far is good enough.

[dschwab9]

What about just purging a small amount of refrigerant from the system through the recovery machine. Wouldn't that be considered a "Deminimus Release"? If you hook a vaccum pump to it, it's going to the atmosphere anyway.

[Dad]

Why not just use the recovery machine like I said instead of deliberately venting. If you pull a vacuum, then you can reuse the recovered refrigerant without the fear of having air/moisture or other contaminants mixed with it. Purging with a small amount will not help you. (in my opinion)

If you keep your recovery tank clean, and you work on the same customer's equipment, you can reuse his refrigerant in other devices. If you mix refrigerants, even slightly, the reclaim house will not take it. True?

[dschwab9]

You have to purge the hoses anyway (especially if you plan to re-use the refrigerant), or you are pumping the air from the hoses into the cylinder.

[ar]

I personally don't reuse refrigerant that has passed through my recovery machine or into a so called clean & evacuated recovery cylinder. As clean as the recovery cylinder is supposed to be, I have seen junk come out of the vapor valve of a "fresh" cylinder that was opened to atmospheric pressures and then turned upside down and shaken.

IMO, it's better to be sure you're not contaminating the customer's equipment by subjecting their refrigerant to a "dirty" recovery unit or cylinder.

Lastly, in our area the only gas that is reclaimed at a reasonable rate is R-22. The 400's and other gases, 502, 12 etc are processed at a cost to us of about $7 a pound. To me it sounds like they're incinerating it anyway. Have fun informing the customer of your recovery and processing charges;)

[Dad]

ds... again, this is done when we pull down the tank. All hoses have QD's. Each hose is 6' long and will hold 1oz of liquid. How much does it take to blow out a 50lb tank? I understand what you are saying/asking "Deminimus Release" or not I am not sure about blowing a tank. I am comfortable with our practice so , guess we will hang there.


ar... you don't charge for recovery and such? We haven't had customer problems with this charge. It could be that we tell give them a NTE or Not To Exceed price before we start surgery and include the recovery and such.

As far as dirty tanks. We filter in and out. No dirty junk here. The reclaim shop that all the supply houses use is located a few blocks from our shop. They get our tanks direct and keep our records and tanks up-to-date. We work for the same customer alot. One of the reasons we are popular with our customers is saving costs when ever we can. That includes transporting refrigerant from one job site to the next for the same customer if needed. You might say, we "bag it and tag it".

[dschwab9]

I'm not saying purge the tank. I'm talking about the recovery unit itself. Even if you pull a vacuum on the tank, isn't the recovery unit and all your hoses still full of air?

[Dad]

oh no... put your gauges on your tank then hook the other side of the tank to the inlet of the recovery machine. Open the outlet port and turn on the machine. Use the gauge on the machine and on your gauge set to check your calibration. Pull it down to about 10Hg. Hoses, tank and machine are in a vacuum when you are done.

Personally I never travel with refrigerant in my hoses and if you have your gauges on a system, simply bleed the hose. that is a true "Deminimus Release".

[dan wong]

I've notice many auto part house selling R134A to the general public. (no license needed). I can not imagine an average back yard machanic would recover the old freon.

Does that mean Recovering R134A is no longer required?

Since they come out with a rast of 'Non ozone depleting' freon, Does it mean they will phase out recovery requirment ...soon...maybe...anybody know?

[BigJon3475]

No CFC card required. Should still be recovered if used as a refrigerant. It still has a global warming potential of 1725.

http://refrigerants.dupont.com/Suva/en_US/pdf/h47125.pdf

[dawgtchrr]

I've notice many auto part house selling R134A to the general public. (no license needed). I can not imagine an average back yard machanic would recover the old freon.

Does that mean Recovering R134A is no longer required?

Since they come out with a rast of 'Non ozone depleting' freon, Does it mean they will phase out recovery requirment ...soon...maybe...anybody know?

No one needs an "EPA" certificate to purchase any HFC refrigerant.

The Law was finalized to say that any refrigerant used as a refrigerant MUST be recovered and a penalty is imposed for intentional release; this includes all replacement refrigerants.

Count on recovering now and well into the future. (remember the phone tax to fund the Spanish/American War) Any violation of recovery could cost you $27,500 for each recorded service you do where you should have recovered such as any "major service". (don't leave a paper trail any longer than necessary)

[BigJon3475]

$27,500 They increased the fine in Feb, 2004

EPA is performing random inspections, responding to tips, and pursuing potential cases against violators. Under the Act, EPA is authorized to assess fines of up to $32,500 per day for any violation of these regulations. Information on selected enforcement actions is available in the enforcement section (http://www.epa.gov/ozone/enforce/index.html).