R11 Chiller replacement question

[hw chiller man]

Has anyone heard of a company (former Carrier engineers?) that is marketing a retrofit kit to convert Carrier 19D series chillers to R123. I was told of such a company, perhaps with manufacturing facilities in Mexico. They sell the compressor, starter and micro to install on existing unishells. Will be coming out with Trane kits in the future. Any links or info would be appreciated.

[absrbrtek]

Yes they are out of Denver I believe. Pretty pricy. Id go with a York code kit, Optiview controller and a VFD. Ill get there name in the next day or so if I can. Problem your gonna have will be the strait tubes in the machine. Youll need to retube it with enhanced tubes to get the same tonnage out of it most likely.

[acjourneyman]

Do what we did, took a 200 ton Carrier unishell and put a 200 ton trane compressor on the top and retrofitted it to 123 and upgraded the controls to UCP2.Was wonderfully quiet and worked great.

[bobby m]

conceptseti.com

[lew2]

I must admit that at times retrofits really baffel me.

Why would anyone spend what amounts to basically the price of a new chiller on their old one. Why not just replace it and get a totally new chiller? I can perhaps understand in a very few instances where installation is a real issue.

I do know of one chiller that someone tried to put a different compressor on and had serious problems, from what I heard and saw. They ended up tearing the chiller out after doing the compressor, oil pump, and control panel thing. Seemed like a really bad decision to me!!!

I must be missing something. Never loved a chiller that much. It's not family!!

When it's days are over give it up.

[hw chiller man]

I've serviced centrifugal chillers in industrial applications that were manufactured in the late 30's and early 40's, so when manufacturers says they have a life expectency of 40 years I believe it. I would agree with you lew2 but in some instances where the chiller was dumped in the basement and the building built around it the installation of a new one can be very expensive. Also a chiller installed in the late 80's or early 90's still has a considerable life expectency. JMHO

[hw chiller man]

Thanks for the link BobbyM.
Did Trane actually sell you a complete compressor AC? I assume it was a three wheeler.

[acjourneyman]

Yes , it was a cvhe and it was a tristar conversion.In this application in a hi-rise downtown the cost would have been significant as it was built into the building.It would have cost thousands of dollars to remove the side of the building and interior walls as it was in the center of the building and it runs great.

[chillerguru]

Their is a guy in Monterrey, Mexico by the name of Donald hayes, that apperently does retor fits on Carrier older machines and also add heat recovery heat exchangers to add tonnage to the older chillers. I believe he is an ex Carrier engineer. He also installs VFD on any Centrfugal chillers. I'll look up info............

[habs]

Was there any issues with the motor cooling on the trane compressor to the carrier unishell

[acjourneyman]

No there was no problems at all, To tell you the truth I have not been back to that site for over 6 years so can not remember how the motor cooling lines were run.I think we utilized the carrier motor cooling lines and I could not see why that would not work.This could be a very reasonable conversion to do if you had a small frame three wheeler compressor lying around.It was a nice conversion and very energy efficient.

[hw chiller man]

What is a Tristar conversion AC? never heard of it.Is it similar to Yorks upgrade with the compressor, starter and micro. Did your carrier have the plate that the original compressor was mounted on or was it a newer version minus the plate. Do you have any photos that you could post?

[acjourneyman]

It was a tristar conversion and this chiller did have the plate.I can't get pics as I have moved but I maybe able to get some.

[hw chiller man]

If you can get some pics AC that would be great. Don't sweat it though if it is a hassle.
thanks..........wayno

[787 Guy]

Herma Motors out of Toronto area has been doing carrier conversions. If your looking at converting they'd be worth talking to.

[hw chiller man]

Thanks 787, am currently talking with them on a Trane conversion. By the way we are in the same local though I don't get to see much of the operation being down here in the a## hole of Ontario.

[acjourneyman]

We installed a couple of hundred Herma motors but this one was a brand new compressor assembly.

[lowtemp]

Originally posted by hw chiller man
Has anyone heard of a company (former Carrier engineers?) that is marketing a retrofit kit to convert Carrier 19D series chillers to R123. I was told of such a company, perhaps with manufacturing facilities in Mexico. They sell the compressor, starter and micro to install on existing unishells. Will be coming out with Trane kits in the future. Any links or info would be appreciated. i would pull the whole works and put in a nice Multistack unit. http://www.multistack.com

[acjourneyman]

I despise multistack chillers.Most of it stems from the fact that only "factory trained" people can start them up.Give me a friggn break , its a scroll or recip unit, big deal.I can overhaul 1500 ton chillers but sorry, your not qualified to work on this 20 ton module.I never even bring them up when we are looking at retrofits.

[787 Guy]

Originally posted by hw chiller man
Thanks 787, am currently talking with them on a Trane conversion. By the way we are in the same local though I don't get to see much of the operation being down here in the a## hole of Ontario.
Thats funny I thought I was In the a$$hole of Ontario. If you haven't been to the hall in a while you should try to make the open house. They put on a pretty good show with lots of tech reps plus you'd be amazed at how far the training centre has come. Last time I was at Herma's shop they had probably a dozen 19D comps from all over North America being converted. Nick would be the guy in this area to talk to.

[hw chiller man]

I'm with you on the multistacks AC. I would much rather build my own chiller and obtain all necessary TSSA and Ontario hydro approvals then go down that road.

[lowtemp]

well, we installed a 200 ton multistack .It replaced 200 ton Centrevac. The only problem we had was the filter screens plugged up just after installation in 2003. The problem was their water treatment was screwed up(back when centrevac was still in).We got the chemical all staightened out and now it works fine.

[hw chiller man]

Great to hear of a successfull multistack installation. I know of many installations where numerous problems have been encountered, and yes they were water treatment related, but I can't babysit the operators, and it eventually becomes my problem. That is why I dont care for a chiller with a plate heat exchanger on the condenser side. Too many potential problems. IMHO

[acjourneyman]

I agree HW, I have had to pull the strainers out with a chainfall.These should never be installed in open tower situations.

[AbrahamF]

Their is a guy in Monterrey, Mexico by the name of Donald hayes, that apperently does retor fits on Carrier older machines and also add heat recovery heat exchangers to add tonnage to the older chillers. I believe he is an ex Carrier engineer. He also installs VFD on any Centrfugal chillers. I'll look up info............

Hello i have read your post about Donald hayes because i was trying to contact him but found nothing yet until i read your post, i need to know if you can bring me some info to contact him.

Thank you in advance
Regards

AbrahamF

[servicetrane]

the company is called TECSIR is in Monterrey Nuevo Leon is the link www.tecsir.com

[AbrahamF]

the company is called TECSIR is in Monterrey Nuevo Leon is the link www.tecsir.com

Thank You Very Much

Regards
AbrahamF

[Galen Manapat]

I despise multistack chillers.Most of it stems from the fact that only "factory trained" people can start them up.Give me a friggn break , its a scroll or recip unit, big deal.I can overhaul 1500 ton chillers but sorry, your not qualified to work on this 20 ton module.I never even bring them up when we are looking at retrofits.


I do not understand your point. On new technology, you would want factory trained people, no? The factory trains people to go through "the checklist" and not take any short cuts. They are also learning the "quirks" of the equipment.

New technology means there is a lot you DON'T know. There are schools, but somebody has to decide to send people worth investing in, to those schools. If you have good manuels or lots or pdfs, many of us can learn a lot from reading and studying them if they are up to date.

But that is NOT the same as working on them AND going to a factory school.

Experience is wonderful, but is your experience on the multistack? You have an A+ Ford mechanic. Is he an A+ mechanic on an Audi or Lexus?