outdoor temp gauge needed?

[redzuk]

From Sears we bought a new 3.5 ton heat pump to replace an older lennox. We are sold a new upgraded thermostat thats necessary with the new unit, it needs to know the outdoor temp. We know how expensive it is to run the heat strips but they insist it must switch to them at 30'. Well,, below 20' and the heat strip runs constantly and cant keep temp up. They come back out and set it to switch over at 20', but the aux heat still runs a lot when temps are up to 40', and when the outside unit does start back up it does it with a loud bang. So we ask if we can just set the thermostat to run the heat pump unless we manually call for the strips. They do a lot of research, check with the manufacturer and say yes, thats no problem. The installer comes out to do that and when he gets here he just replaces the thermostat with what we originally had. They charged us $ for that new thermostat, Sears doesnt want to refund the money. So I'm thinking of asking for the expensive themostat back. Maybe the installer just didnt know how to program it.

Its a Payne gh13, if someone can tell me how good of a themostat i need for the heat pump, and if I should be able to program the heat strips to only come on manually with the new high tech themostat, or maybe also for defrost automatic otherwise manually?

Thanks, Carl

[beenthere]

What was the brand and model number of the new thermostat they took out.

Several thermostats will allow you to set them up that the heat strips can't come on unless the outdoor temp is below X degrees. And the heat pump still runs also.

The sub contractor that they used. Probably doesn't know much about heat pumps.

[dracorp2]

I have to agree with Beenthere.

I would also add that you need to have the tech check to make sure your heat

pump is going into defrost mode properly. It may be malfunctioning. During periods of

cold weather the heat pump will frost up and has to be defrosted. It does this

automatically at certain time intervals (30,60,90minutes). When the heat pump is

defrosting the aux heat should come on automatically.

[redzuk]

Several thermostats will allow you to set them up that the heat strips can't come on unless the outdoor temp is below X degrees. And the heat pump still runs also.

I asked if it could be set so that the heat strips supplement the heat pump and they both run at certain temps and they said that wasnt possible.

I'll have to call Sears to find the name of the thermostat, and they havent been good about calling back lately.
The big deal was that it had to be that it was connected to an outside temp gauge but it could also be controlled from off site, never expected to need that feature.

Your right that they probably just dont know heat pumps. We actually used sears because the sales guy talked like he really knew heat pumps. He told us the old lennox indoor unit would work with the new carrier, it didnt. He told us his installers could work on the lennox if need be, they werent lennox authorized.

The heat pump was $ installed, thermostat $, evaporator they said they gave to us at cost for $. I get the feeling the installer doesnt like doing the job for whatever sears is paying them and that is part of the problem.

This new thermostat is fine, it would be nice not to have to manual switch from heat to cool, but thats how we did it for 20 years so no big deal. I only want to use the other one because i paid for it.

Thanks, Carl.

[beenthere]

They either straight out lied to you, or they don't know much about heat pumps.

[redzuk]

Sorry for posting prices.

I didnt mess with the thermostat before because i didnt know if that was the problem or the only problem, and they did at one point tell me that running the heat pump below 30' would void the warranty. When they couldnt make the thermostat work right they swapped in a white-rodgers IF82 261. The model of the payne ph13 is ph 13NRo42H.

For an all electric house in Denver, Colorado whats the best thermostat for that unit, whats the best way to set it up, thats what i'm trying to figure out now.
How much more efficient would the system be with a thermostat with an outdoor temp gauge? It was absolutely necessary, more like mandatory, when selling it to me but when they couldnt figure out how to program it, then its not so important.

[beenthere]

That Payne has no warranty void clause for running it at temps below 30°. It has AHRI ratings for heat at 17° just like any other heat pump. And probably is cheaper then the strip heaters at temp of zero degrees or less(just can't produce enough heat without the strips at those lower temps).


Not real familiar with White Rodger thermostats. Other then they have thermostats that will do what you want. Just don't know which model numbers.

The Honeywell 8000 Vision Pro, and IAQ thermostat would do what you want.

Hope when it comes to service down the road. You can find a better company.

[andserco]

QUOTE=beenthere;7024702]


You can find a better company.[/QUOTE]



there is a good service company (he is on this website aka "Spotts") out in Ft. Morgan.....if you are out of his area he might be able to fix you up with a good company

[redzuk]

I've spent a few hours searching this site, too bad i cant charge sears $60 an hour to figure out what they should know.

I found the manual of the thermostat they swapped out, believe it or not it was the visionPro th8000. I only have the operating manual, gave them back the other one. This one doenst tell me anything about aux heat lockout, as i understand it, any of the visionPro 8000 should have had the aux lockout down to 5'? I have no doubt those installers knew all about heat pumps, amazingly they just didnt know how to set the themostat. Is there some situation that could have caused the thermostat to overide the lockout? I just cant believe they didnt know how to set the thermostat. Its not just the installers, but also the regional manager for hvac at Sears.

I asked specifically why the aux heat kicks in so much up to 40', response was "it shouldnt be", and their solution was giving me basically a single stage thermostat? afaik with this white rodgers thermostat the strips only kick on to defrost or if i manually switch to "emer heat"?

We've always set the temp to 72' and just left it there, maybe thats how they designed them in the early 80's, the strips were truly emergency heat. There is a point when the heat pumps (there's 2) run almost non stop, but i dont remember them ever not being able to keep the house at 72', i'm sure its happened but we probably just made a fire. Aux lockout around 10 or 15' i think would be ideal for us.

What kills me is they turned it on me, i'm a problem customer, wont even return calls anymore, just because i dont think i should have to pay for the expensive thermostat that they removed. lol, looking back the biggest reason i should have upgraded the thermostat is a function they dont even understand.

Thanks for all the help, Carl

[beenthere]

8000 series does have a low aux lock out setting that stops at 40 for electric strip heat(can't set lower).
The IAQ down to 5.

[redzuk]

okay, so they did what they had to do. I'm thinking my emergency heat is probably not aux, but is all strips and no heat pump - idk because its been years since i turned it on. I would think the 5' lock down option would be better, I'll ask them for it.

They acted like we were nuts wanting to set the lock down so low, maybe thats unusual? The strips are 15kw I think, to me its nuts to run those any more than is really necessary.

We know a good service tech, we didnt use that company because they wouldnt let him give us a quote, and the estimater they sent out was just a sales guy with no real practical knowledge. Same as the Sears guy, the sears guy was just a better bs'er.

Carl

[beenthere]

The IAQ will probably be your best bet. It has better control of the aux heat.