new grads...what do employers want?

[hvacchica]

Why is it so hard for new grads to find employment? Is it the economy, or is it because most tech schools rush education, and employers don't trust their skills?
I've been coming across many companies who are willing to train if they find "the right" person, but can ya'll help me out by describing the "right person"? Sales background? Bilingual? Older, younger? Willingnesss to continually learn?

Thanks!

[dash]

Decent vo-tech school, high grade average,willing to learn short and long term.

Good with people, stable home life, clean drivers license,drug free.

Bi-lingual,depending on the area,is a plus.

[pdrake65]

Chica ,read some of the posts here. Start with this one:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=547452

The question is easy to ask ,but the answer varies. You need to put some effort into finding out.

[hvacchica]

Thanks, I got halfway through that thread, and will continue when I'm off work (on lunch currently). Lots of good information and opinions.

Hence why I am here, drake, I'm putting forth the effort to find out from a bunch of seasoned techs. :} I tried to ask a few employers, but only got answers out of two of them. One said they just want clean DMV and BKGD and the other said previous work exp, good attendance, clean appearance! But there's gotta be more than that to it, or I wouldn't be in this boat. It's tough out there, and I want to make sure I'm highlighting the right skills on my cover letter and resume.

[pdrake65]

You came to the right place to find out! Good luck and keep us posted.

[DethWshBkr]

I think a lot of it is just a lack of good candidates.
Anyone can be trained properly, but are they a good candidate?

I graduated from YTI in York, PA.

Well, I recently found out that they are now going to require background checks BEFORE the student is enrolled.
They were starting to get over 50% enrollment from people who had been convicted of multiple felonies, auto thefts, and anything else. A bunch missed the starting days of classes because they were in jail. Some needed rides with their parents or friends because they had their drivers licence revoked.
Do you think they are going to get a job with ANY company afterwards? No way! They will be denied access to a home, and no insurance company will allow that person to drive the company vehicle! If you can't get into a home, or drive the company van, you're worthless.

HVAC is considered an idiots field, where any drop out hack can do it, and it allegedly pays good money - so it is a draw to those who can't do anything else, so of course, that makes the industry seem like it's not hiring....

[genduct]

How about reliable, shows up 20 minutes before work, with a clean face, pants cuff not dragging on the ground or butt crack, no body art or piercings, who will cheerfully do what you ask them because they don't believe the task is beneath them, can read a ruler, add and subtract fractions, knows that the best that happen with their technical education is entry level skills, and even though those expensive, for profit training schools suggested otherwise, they know they are not journey people

Too much to expect? What was I thinking?
ALL WORK HAS DIGNITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hvacchica]

Deth, starting July 1st, my school is doing that too! You must have clean background, and less than 2 points on your DMV record, and NO DUI's. I know what you mean about the prison thing, a lot of people I started with did not finish when I did because of incarcerations, and as a result, failing mods. The DD is always bragging about how we're "technicians" once we reach mod 4 (and there are 7 mods), but we have barely begun to trouble shoot at that stage! So the grads go out looking for work, and are offered helper or installing positions at first, for around $10, but because we are told from the begining that we are technicians and are going to make upwards of $20! These guys are turning down positions! Hey, call me crazy, but $10 is better than the $8 I'm making at OSH, and its a RESPECTABLE JOB. I realized halfway through I'm going to have to work hard to find a job, and realize I'm JUST an entry level kid who doesn't deserve $20 an hour, and just take anything. The ladies in career services were honest with me from the start, and told me (nicely) no, we're not technicians, we have the POTENTIAL to be technicans, and its up to us to continue our education, if no one is willing us to hire us right off, ask if we can shadow or help for free for a few weeks (as long as we can afford it, and I can).

[pdrake65]

HVAC is considered an idiots field, where any drop out hack can do it, and it allegedly pays good money - so it is a draw to those who can't do anything else, so of course, that makes the industry seem like it's not hiring....

I know of nobody who thinks this way....where did you hear this from?

[Tech Rob]

I know of nobody who thinks this way....where did you hear this from?

That's the impression I get from the junior executives who turn their nose up at me in the office buildings I work in. Many just feel that people in the trades are overpaid laborers.

[shultz440]

Go to HVAC agent.com they will fax your resume to a bunch of employers i just got out of school and had the same problem i piad $29.00 and they faxed my resume to about 100 companies i had a job in 2 weeks and all my expierance is from school.

[DavyB]

That's the impression I get from the junior executives who turn their nose up at me in the office buildings I work in. Many just feel that people in the trades are overpaid laborers.

I've felt the same way before, but after life experience realized that the ones sitting behind the keyboard and phone are overpaid monkeys.

[DethWshBkr]

I know of nobody who thinks this way....where did you hear this from?

Most schools.

If not, they wouldn't use HVAC/R as the "fallback" course, in case a student can't hack it in something else, they should then check out hvac.

It's not a statement that has ever been made to me, rather an attitude, or insinuations made in some way.

If a kid wants to go to school, do you think his parents are going to try to make him or her a doctor, nurse, lawyer, or anything else, or an hvac tech first? Yet, which CAN make just as much as any other.
Exactly.

[DethWshBkr]

That's the impression I get from the junior executives who turn their nose up at me in the office buildings I work in. Many just feel that people in the trades are overpaid laborers.

Exactly. Everyone can say "It was a little low on freon last year" and so they figure they are making sure you know what to do....

[Renoir1]

Go to HVAC agent.com they will fax your resume to a bunch of employers i just got out of school and had the same problem i piad $29.00 and they faxed my resume to about 100 companies i had a job in 2 weeks and all my expierance is from school.

i registered with them before i graduated. i think they've faxed my resume to like 2 companies both of which were several hundred miles away from my home and didn't want entry level anyways lol.

basically what companies are looking for are picture perfect people with picture perfect employment history and picture perfect driving records who've already gone to some tech school and will show up - like the other guy said - a half hour early every day and make coffee for everyone and bring everyone breakfast and lunch, and shave their face every single day and (my god) definitely don't have any tattoos showing *gasp* and go home from work every night and sit at home and study study study what they learned that day at work ect,ect,ect....

....all for about 9 or 10 dollars an hour. lol

i heard someone the other day *****ing because there are so many guys running their own businesses out of their pick up trucks that it takes business away from other companies ect,ect.... well most of these guys are probably sick and tired of people telling them they don't want to hire them because of whatever petty reason they can think of so they just start to work for themselves. i'm probably going to be one of them and i plan on doing everything i can do to take all of the business away from every other company out there lol


oh and i almost forgot - they usually want you to provide all of your own tools too. of which they'll probably be borrowing some lol.

[Learn-never-end]

i registered with them before i graduated. i think they've faxed my resume to like 2 companies both of which were several hundred miles away from my home and didn't want entry level anyways lol.

basically what companies are looking for are picture perfect people with picture perfect employment history and picture perfect driving records who've already gone to some tech school and will show up - like the other guy said - a half hour early every day and make coffee for everyone and bring everyone breakfast and lunch, and shave their face every single day and (my god) definitely don't have any tattoos showing *gasp* and go home from work every night and sit at home and study study study what they learned that day at work ect,ect,ect....

....all for about 9 or 10 dollars an hour. lol

i heard someone the other day *****ing because there are so many guys running their own businesses out of their pick up trucks that it takes business away from other companies ect,ect.... well most of these guys are probably sick and tired of people telling them they don't want to hire them because of whatever petty reason they can think of so they just start to work for themselves. i'm probably going to be one of them and i plan on doing everything i can do to take all of the business away from every other company out there lol


oh and i almost forgot - they usually want you to provide all of your own tools too. of which they'll probably be borrowing some lol.



You hit on right note

That is what I've seen out there. It is hard to go home see the little one cry and tell daddy that he is hungry. Most people are good people, want to do right thing but if employers don't give them a chance then people will find way to survive. Thanks

[Renoir1]

yep.
i mean i don't mean to sound like i'm whining or that i'm "owed" a job from anyone, but it's just frustrating after so many months of job hunting constantly being told this that or the other is why people aren't interested.
i think this is a horrible field to go into and i regret borrowing so much money to go to ranken technical college for HVAC lol. it was a huge waste of time and money, and i really don't understand how they can get away with telling people that they have such high job placement statistics. it states right on their website that they have an "average of 4.8 jobs per graduate". i think it's more like "4.8 graduates per job" lol.
i don't even think it was a very good school. no different from any other one anyways. seemed like the teachers in our second year were more worried about keeping the shop immaculately clean in case some prospective future student or class of high school kids came through on a tour than they were about teaching their current class a trade.
i think ranken is a good place for spoiled brat 18/19 year old kids who's parents pay for them to go there. not for someone who has to borrow money to go there because they think it's some kind of "elite training" or something, because it's not.
end rant lol.

[pdrake65]

I really hope things go better for all of you soon.I am sorry that the schools are giving you false info on the demand for apprentices as opposed to experienced techs....they are just trying to make money in my opinion. Don't give up!:CU:

[Renoir1]

yeah in retrospect i speak a little harshly of them but it was an ok school. there was one teacher we had out of four for the whole program that really had things organized and demanded maturity from everyone, and i appreciated that, and learned alot in his class and did actually gain some good experience with things - we spent 3 hours a day in the shop and an hour/hour and a half in the classroom.
but with the others it just kind of seemed like if people wanted to put in the effort to work on equipment then they'd help them when they were around, if not then they didn't really care, which is fine, and i kind of understand because myself- i couldn't hardly stand to be around all these kids all day either (lol), but it's just kind of an expensive school, and for that amount of money i'd think all of the teachers would have more of an organized program out in the shop since that's where most of our day was spent.
oh well. at least i have a college degree now. even if it's an associates lol.

[greasemonkey89]

im going threw the same thing just graduated last week but had a interview went well hopefully i get the job. but anyway from what i learned today they look for responsible and interested individuals with aspirations to grow and learn. its not easy i been applying and sending resume's way before i graduated and only the school was able to land me a shot horrible. just got to keep at it is my advise be persistent don't give up. seems like being a installer is where to start can expect to be a service tech right off the bat seems this trade is more about paying your due's which is cool just give us guys a chance.

[SouthTex]

Interviewed a guy(40 years old training for a new profession) just finishing up trade school yesterday, offered him a job a couple of dollars over what I start helpers out doing residential change outs. He was disappointed, come to find out he was told at the school he would be making x# when he got his degree. Was honest with him on what the potiental is in the industry for the gifted and talented. He took the job. Now his real training begins. Schooling is good but I have never in 38 years seen anyone come out of a school and was qualified for a tech position. Schools should do like they do in the medical field, require an internship and then maybe guys like me would be more willing to take a chance on someone. Most companies in the industry are small shops that can not afford the expense of growing their own techs and with the downturn in business makes it even worse.

[Renoir1]

yep. i never felt that i was "promised" anything though. i mean how can a school guarantee a certain salary? they can't. you'd have to be naive to believe they could guarantee you anything really lol.
i was just hoping i'd get a decent job and be able to get into the industry and gain experience.
oh well hopefully i get a call from one of the union halls i've signed up at sometime next year if things pick up.

[pdrake65]

Interviewed a guy(40 years old training for a new profession) just finishing up trade school yesterday, offered him a job a couple of dollars over what I start helpers out doing residential change outs. He was disappointed, come to find out he was told at the school he would be making x# when he got his degree. Was honest with him on what the potiental is in the industry for the gifted and talented. He took the job. Now his real training begins. Schooling is good but I have never in 38 years seen anyone come out of a school and was qualified for a tech position. Schools should do like they do in the medical field, require an internship and then maybe guys like me would be more willing to take a chance on someone. Most companies in the industry are small shops that can not afford the expense of growing their own techs and with the downturn in business makes it even worse.

I have since talked to a few instructors who have told me they never tell their students a "starting pay" for what they are being trained for. Either the schools are saying this or it is being said thru hearsay. Have any of you had your instructor tell you what you will make when you leave the school?

[boom]

Schools should do like they do in the medical field, require an internship and then maybe guys like me would be more willing to take a chance on someone. Most companies in the industry are small shops that can not afford the expense of growing their own techs and with the downturn in business makes it even worse.

I totally agree with you here! If there were such a program, I'd be the first to sign up. I'm very hungry for this... All I need is a damn Shot at it.

[boom]

I have since talked to a few instructors who have told me they never tell their students a "starting pay" for what they are being trained for. Either the schools are saying this or it is being said thru hearsay. Have any of you had your instructor tell you what you will make when you leave the school?

I am willing to start off at minimum wage, real talk! All I want is experience under my belt, being I am a newbie and have no experience.. But once I am confident and have at least five years experience that's when I will demand my pay.

[Renoir1]

if i have to work for minimum wage for years in order to get experience i'll just go into a different career path lol. i'm headed that direction anyway. quickly finding out hvac is a joke unless you own your own business.

[greasemonkey89]

I am willing to start off at minimum wage, real talk! All I want is experience under my belt, being I am a newbie and have no experience.. But once I am confident and have at least five years experience that's when I will demand my pay.

exactly what im willing to do all i want is experience as well.