The Bible and politics

[bigtime]

The bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. Because of this, many people say we need a constitutional amendment allowing marriage only between man and women. This seems to be a big thing for many rebuplicans. We constanly hear in some form "The bible says this, and therefore the government should enforce it!"

The bible also says that we are to take care of the poor. It says it is hard for a rich man to get into heaven. Jesus told the rich ruler the way to get to heaven is to give everything to the poor and follow him. Following the logic in the first paragraph, the government should tax the heck out of everyone to take better care of the poor and help us all get to heaven.

My point is this. The bible is a roadmap for how we should live our lives. It was not intended as a document for us to make laws by!!!

[James 3528]

Why not just tell us your gay and want to get married? I personally don't care nor do I think the Bible is solely the instrument to enact laws. There are thousands and thousands of laws. Is the "Stop Sign" covered in the Bible? Marriage is as much or more a government issue than a Bible issue. Laws are fundamentally based on morals which is also covered in the Bible, the Koran and dozen of other religion based books.

[Green Mountain]

The 10 commandments is the basis of our laws. The Bible is an historic book which many people believe to be correct in its accounts.

Personally, I don't believe that the Bible should be a basis for our civil laws. Also, I believe we should not change the Constitution of the United States of America every time someone feels that we need a stop sign at a particular intersection.

[bootlen]

The Bible does not offer up homosexuality as something that you might choose as a way of living. It is "an abomination before the Lord."

Giving all that you own to the poor is a suggestion...a recommendation...that gives one a better perspective on who Christ is. He stepped down from Glory to give His all, His very life, to pay for our sins.

Giving to the poor is a great idea. However, we have bastardized that concept and give to those who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves but are too lazy to do so. Just because you don't own anything, does not mean you are poor. To be poor means to NOT be able to fend, protect, or support one's self.

We see a lot of men picking up welfare checks, cashing them and buying drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. I have worked at a seafood market and see people drive up in a lexus and use food stamps. We see unmarried pregnant women with 5 and 6 kids receiving welfare who's welfare check is dependent on the number of kids she has. What's wrong with this picture?

It's the bastardization of commandments and recommendations from Scripture. It's been twisted, abused, and misused. One day people who have done that will pay a hefty price for having done so.

[kim]

Say what you will, but all sin is an abomination to God.

Jesus paraphrased God's law pretty well.
1)Love God above all.
2)Love your fellow man.

Giving hand-outs is not a very good way to show your love. Give everybody an opportunity to use their God-given talents. Let them earn the self-respect they deserve. It is an abomination to God to enable those people to waste their God-given talents. 70 years ago we had a welfare system that did that. People were given the opportunity to earn a living building roads and such. God can't be pleased that we have reduced our country to a land of beggers and theives.
Jesus did not give money to the poor, he helped them.

[arc8]

The bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong. Because of this, many people say we need a constitutional amendment allowing marriage only between man and women. This seems to be a big thing for many rebuplicans. We constanly hear in some form "The bible says this, and therefore the government should enforce it!"

Let God be right and every man wrong. I can't seem to find any countries that can survive a messed up family unit versus one man and one woman family unit, which is the backbone of any great nation.

The bible also says that we are to take care of the poor. It says it is hard for a rich man to get into heaven. Jesus told the rich ruler the way to get to heaven is to give everything to the poor and follow him. Following the logic in the first paragraph, the government should tax the heck out of everyone to take better care of the poor and help us all get to heaven.

He was talking to indivduals! not the government or the senatorio committee.

My point is this. The bible is a roadmap for how we should live our lives. It was not intended as a document for us to make laws by!!!

It is God's people who should live by the word of God. The law's are for God's people through the church. Does all churches follow God's commandments?

[R12rules]

Praise Jesus!!!


Arc8 I applaude you.


Many have done nobly, but you have just excelled them all!


I dont mind reading in a little of each man's perspective into their Biblical knowledge.
I know it means that what they have writen is tainted by their own interpretation. But at least they wrote something that is not too offbase.
Any moron can write what's on his mind.

Any jerk can write down what he read on the bathroom wall.
But to be able to read the Bible and have understanding ... that is something fantastic.
Yet, it if remained as an intelectual act .... it would be of no value what so ever!
Cause people do not have a relationship based upon intellect. It takes communication. It requires sharing. It demands humility!
Not humiliation, but humility. Humbling one's self before their Creator!


I get tired of reading each man's interpretation of how they "feeeeeel" God intended His word to be presented.

Makes me wana puke.

What is so difficult about reading something inthe Bible and accepting it for face value?

But "NOOOOOO!" They gota intelectualize it into "meaninglessnothingness".
Afterall, they never would want something in the Bible to be above and beyond how their own lives are.

("meaninglessnothingness")


This is not a put down. This is a challenge.

If someone intelectualizes the Bible, then they lack warmth in their relationships with people. And they may not even have one with the Living Creator, Jesus.

Take this as a challenge to accept the Bible for face value and to quit adding your own two cents worth every time you quote from it's pages.

[kim]

R12, Does that include Thomas Aqinas, Augustine, Martin Luther, all the popes, etc?
Shoot everytime I go to church, the preacher is explaining the bible to us. One quote then 1/2 hour "intellectuallizing".
The bible is not made to be quoted. Quoting the bible just means you know how to memorize. The bible is made to be a guide to life. You have to try to understand it if you hope to apply its principles to your life. The Amish practice a christian religon that is different from mine, but they seem to be applying the principles of the bible in a fashion that follows Jesus's teachings.

[arc8]

R12, Does that include Thomas Aqinas, Augustine, Martin Luther, all the popes, etc?

Yes. Leave the lib intellectuals to their own worldly wisdom and the believers to God's wisdom.

Shoot everytime I go to church, the preacher is explaining the bible to us. One quote then 1/2 hour "intellectuallizing".

Too bad for you. I say preach the word in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort.

The bible is not made to be quoted. Quoting the bible just means you know how to memorize.

But there is nothing wrong quoting God's word, the Lord did it.

The bible is made to be a guide to life. You have to try to understand it if you hope to apply its principles to your life.

The bible was given to us to know God Almighty and to worship him. And yet folks say it's too hard to know God. Really it's our unbelief.

The Amish practice a christian religon that is different from mine, but they seem to be applying the principles of the bible in a fashion that follows Jesus's teachings.

Not really. They sure aren't evangelizing the world.

[cehs]

The bible is the story of God reconciling man unto himself.
It is the story of how man chose to DO HIS OWN THING without God, and how God provided a way for man to return to God's good graces.
ANY who choose to follow a different drummer, is allowed to do so. But there is a price to pay for that decision.

Politics are mans way of attempting to maintain peace and ballance in society. If God is left out of the equation, the government WILL FALL...

Any who do not realize this, or simply don't beleive it are (as the bible states) LOST...

We all have our own experiences, but each know right from wrong (in our hearts) and "The righteous will live by faith." and "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness"

Paul turned out to be the most active and elequent of all the apostles. The jews rejected their own prophets and guides, will we turn away from God in these modern times?

If you were to choose today, would you choose heaven or hell???

[bootlen]

Originally posted by cehs
The bible is the story of God reconciling man unto himself.
It is the story of how man chose to DO HIS OWN THING without God, and how God provided a way for man to return to God's good graces.
ANY who choose to follow a different drummer, is allowed to do so. But there is a price to pay for that decision.

Politics are mans way of attempting to maintain peace and ballance in society. If God is left out of the equation, the government WILL FALL...

Any who do not realize this, or simply don't beleive it are (as the bible states) LOST...

We all have our own experiences, but each know right from wrong (in our hearts) and "The righteous will live by faith." and "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness"

Paul turned out to be the most active and elequent of all the apostles. The jews rejected their own prophets and guides, will we turn away from God in these modern times?

If you were to choose today, would you choose heaven or hell???





================================================== ==========

Exactly, cehs. Even secular history agrees with this, whether it wants to or not..

[cehs]

Bootlen,

If secular history agrees with:
Politics are mans way of attempting to maintain peace and ballance in society. If God is left out of the equation, the government WILL FALL...

Then why do so many want to leave God out of government?
The founding fathers wanted a GOD FEARING man in government. ALL positions of government...

I am not arguing with you, just raising the question..

Chris

[bootlen]

Originally posted by cehs
Bootlen,

If secular history agrees with:
Politics are mans way of attempting to maintain peace and ballance in society. If God is left out of the equation, the government WILL FALL...

Then why do so many want to leave God out of government?
The founding fathers wanted a GOD FEARING man in government. ALL positions of government...

I am not arguing with you, just raising the question..

Chris

================================================== ==========

Chris, there is no justifiable reason to leave God out of government. That's what I meant by my statement. History has proven that when God is left out of the equation, that nation falls, not because God made it fall but because they said no to God's blessing and, as one great theologian once said, "Your talents will take you where your integrity cannot sustain you."

Why do we leave God out of government? I guess Scripture answers that, too. It's nothing more complicated than pride..."God, please, I'd rather do it myself."
"The fool has said in his heart, 'No, God.'"

[Edited by bootlen on 07-24-2004 at 10:35 AM]

[R12rules]

Kim, I love the Ahmish people.

And I could even love you. Jesus does. So I could try.


When the devil tempted Jesus, what did Jesus do to shut the devil up?
He simply yet forcefully quoted scripture.

The Bible tells us: "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you."

If the power to quote scripture is not there for you ... check with your Master.

The type of preaching you described is known as "spring-board". Someone uses one verse to get their jump off point up and going. From there it is whatever they have on their heart to speak about.

Personally, my own opinion, my own view is this.
When I attend a building meeting I go there to meet with other like minded believers. I dod so for the main purpose of coming together to worship The King of Kings!!! And The Lord of Lords!!!

Hearing about local events in the bulletin is okay. But not needed. I can read that at home.
I can listen to a sermon on the radio. So I dont go there for preaching. I dont go there for teaching. I dont go there for socializing. I dont go there for networking.

When I was in college, I didnt like to be lectured to. And I have never developed the liking for it since.
Going to "church" hasnt changed that for me.


If your not being "fed" the Word of God where you presently attend service, I highly reccomend you get outa there and find a group of believers who teach the Written Word of God!!! Free from opinion and or conjecture.


And when the Holy Spirit does come upon you Kim, you WILL be quoting scripture. Guaranteed! And you will not feel weak about doing so either!

[bigtime]

R12, If the power to be humble is not there for you, check with your master.

[kim]

Originally posted by arc8
R12, Does that include Thomas Aqinas, Augustine, Martin Luther, all the popes, etc?

Yes. Leave the lib intellectuals to their own worldly wisdom and the believers to God's wisdom.
[/i]These men spent their lives studying the bible. I never met them, but most preachers are not liberal intelectuals. You might try reading them sometime before you dismiss them as wordly intellectuals

Shoot everytime I go to church, the preacher is explaining the bible to us. One quote then 1/2 hour "intellectuallizing".

Too bad for you. I say preach the word in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort.
The bible does need to be explained to most people. Gnostics like to say they know everything about the bible. The rest of us get the experts to help us.[i]

[/B]

[Edited by kim on 07-26-2004 at 04:44 PM]

[kim]

Originally posted by R12rules
Kim, I love the Ahmish people.

And I could even love you. Jesus does. So I could try.


When the devil tempted Jesus, what did Jesus do to shut the devil up?
He simply yet forcefully quoted scripture.

The Bible tells us: "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you."

If the power to quote scripture is not there for you ... check with your Master.

The type of preaching you described is known as "spring-board". Someone uses one verse to get their jump off point up and going. From there it is whatever they have on their heart to speak about.

Personally, my own opinion, my own view is this.
When I attend a building meeting I go there to meet with other like minded believers. I dod so for the main purpose of coming together to worship The King of Kings!!! And The Lord of Lords!!!

Hearing about local events in the bulletin is okay. But not needed. I can read that at home.
I can listen to a sermon on the radio. So I dont go there for preaching. I dont go there for teaching. I dont go there for socializing. I dont go there for networking.

When I was in college, I didnt like to be lectured to. And I have never developed the liking for it since.
Going to "church" hasnt changed that for me.


If your not being "fed" the Word of God where you presently attend service, I highly reccomend you get outa there and find a group of believers who teach the Written Word of God!!! Free from opinion and or conjecture.


And when the Holy Spirit does come upon you Kim, you WILL be quoting scripture. Guaranteed! And you will not feel weak about doing so either!

Quoting the bible did not save Jesus from the Devil. Living the teachings of the bible saved Jesus from the Devil.

Jim Jones quoted the bible. He was filled with the Holy Ghost, right up to when he killed all of his followers.

I do not feel weak in my ability to memorize passages from the bible. I just have no desire to put on airs. I would rather sit down with Strong and learn what is being taught.

I studied quite a bit about the Gnostics and similar groups. I preffer to be educated. Jesus did not tell us parables because they were interesting stories. He told us parables so we could learn the true meaning of God's plan for us. Telling the stories over and over is not the same as living by the lesson in the stories.
There are many people on this board who claim to be filled by the Holy Ghost. Wait till Jesus treats them the way they have treated the children of God. "As you do to the least of my servants, You do unto me." They can go to Church all they want to. They can quote verse all day, but the ghost quiding them did not come from God.
How can you know for certian it is not the devil in your head telling you he is the Holy Ghost?

[kim]

Do you really think God needs your worship like some golden calf or something?

Do you think there might be a reason why God did not allow his follow to make an image of him?

Quote the bible verse where Jesus tells me to worship Jesus. Jesus is my mentor.
Pray your prayers. Recite your psalms and feel better about yourself. They were writen by men. Empty words to not replace actions dictated by my love for God. I choose to serve God and be happy to do my part to help the will of God be done on earth as it is in heaven. (In case you do not recognize this, it is a line from the only creed Jesus taught us to pray.)

First I had to find out what is the will of God.

[arc8]

Quoting the bible did not save Jesus from the Devil. Living the teachings of the bible saved Jesus from the Devil.

God wrote the Bible!

Jim Jones quoted the bible. He was filled with the Holy Ghost, right up to when he killed all of his followers.

You're joking, right? The spirit of God is not in them that are not of his.

I do not feel weak in my ability to memorize passages from the bible. I just have no desire to put on airs. I would rather sit down with Strong and learn what is being taught.

I wouldn't call it weakness, just no initiative.

I studied quite a bit about the Gnostics and similar groups. I preffer to be educated. Jesus did not tell us parables because they were interesting stories. He told us parables so we could learn the true meaning of God's plan for us. Telling the stories over and over is not the same as living by the lesson in the stories.

There is nothing wrong with education. As Noah Webster said, "Education is useless without the Bible."

There are many people on this board who claim to be filled by the Holy Ghost. Wait till Jesus treats them the way they have treated the children of God. "As you do to the least of my servants, You do unto me." They can go to Church all they want to. They can quote verse all day, but the ghost quiding them did not come from God.

Thy word is true from the beginning: and everyone of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. - PS.119:60
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.- PS.12:6,7

How can you know for certian it is not the devil in your head telling you he is the Holy Ghost?

If they don't speak the word, then they are not of God; thus no holy Spirit in them.

[bootlen]

Hey, arc8. Pearls & swine, man. I've been down that road with that traveler. Pearls & swine.

[kim]

Originally posted by bootlen
Hey, arc8. Pearls & swine, man. I've been down that road with that traveler. Pearls & swine.

Nice qnostic attitude.
That road was the fruitless trip where you tried to convince me that forgiveness of sins is not important.

[arc8]

Nice qnostic attitude.

What is a gnostic?

[kim]

Gnostic is a "christian" religon where they think the Holy Spirit has given them the gift to know everything. They caused big problems in the early days of Christianity. A bunch of people running around telling everybody what they think the bible really says. Some of them actually where filled with the holy ghost. Like Jesus told us: You can judge a tree by its fruits.


There have been prophets in the past. There will probably be prophets in the future. Just like blow hards at the parts store. It does not take too much to figure out which ones know what they are talking about. You listen to the convincing ones and laugh at the misinformed ones, (after they leave).

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim

Originally posted by bootlen
Hey, arc8. Pearls & swine, man. I've been down that road with that traveler. Pearls & swine.

Nice qnostic attitude.
That road was the fruitless trip where you tried to convince me that forgiveness of sins is not important.

================================================== ==========

Repost the quote. Otherwise don't repeat lies.

[kim]

And cast my pearls before the swines yet again.

Don't worry I forgive you. I also pray that you learn humility. That might be all it takes to round out your christian education.

[arc8]

Gnostic is a "christian" religon where they think the Holy Spirit has given them the gift to know everything. They caused big problems in the early days of Christianity. A bunch of people running around telling everybody what they think the bible really says. Some of them actually where filled with the holy ghost. Like Jesus told us: You can judge a tree by its fruits.

Don't let them fool you, the spirit of God and the english language can help you understand what God want's of you from his Word (the bible).

[kim]

It is so easy to fool yourself, if that is your intention.

How is it that you know that the Holy Spirit is quiding you? Some muslims claim Your God is telling them to kill you, because you have made a mockery of his great religion.

[arc8]

How is it that you know that the Holy Spirit is quiding you? Some muslims claim Your God is telling them to kill you, because you have made a mockery of his great religion.

Are all god's related? the answer would have to be no.
I think it would be better if you read some history of the muslims first before you continue.

Did you know that Mohammed at age 50 married a 7-year-old girl?
Did you know that Mohammed was a thief and a killer?
Did you know that it is easier to put on a show than to sit still and listen to our conscience?

"Most people are bothered by those passages in the bible that they don't understand; I have always noticed that the passages that bother me most are the ones I do understand." - Mark Twain

Really, we can give no excuse to God for not understanding his simple will according to his scriptures. And what might that be (his will). Any guesses?

[hvacbear]

The problem is that the Bible is the interpretation. Everyone does it a little different (usually they add their own "personal twist). There are some things that are not too hard to grasp though like the Ten Commandments and they should be taken at face value.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

Often they do not compare scripture with scripture to come to the right conclusion using one isolated verse to base their entire belief on.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by hvacbear
The problem is that the Bible is the interpretation. Everyone does it a little different (usually they add their own "personal twist). There are some things that are not too hard to grasp though like the Ten Commandments and they should be taken at face value.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

Often they do not compare scripture with scripture to come to the right conclusion using one isolated verse to base their entire belief on.


================================================== ==========

Exactly right, bear. Scripture should interpret Scripture and it does if we study diligently.

[arc8]

The problem is that the Bible is the interpretation. Everyone does it a little different (usually they add their own "personal twist). There are some things that are not too hard to grasp though like the Ten Commandments and they should be taken at face value.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

Often they do not compare scripture with scripture to come to the right conclusion using one isolated verse to base their entire belief on.

Exactly right, bear. Scripture should interpret Scripture and it does if we study diligently.

You know what really bothers me is that many folks don't do any study of the bible and just use certain verses for their point. Right, the scriptures need to be compare with scriptures.
Did you know that there is a certain way to study the bible, and for that matter any book you read. I guess we are just too lazy.

[remember]

religous f#*king fruitcakes.


religion is not what made this country great.

and now these partially informed zealots think there is real history on there side.

they are delusional and the evangelical movement has been co-opted by the republican party,and is using the ignorance of many people against the good of the country.


the founding fathers were especially leary of organized religions,and seeing what harm the "blindfaith" to religious leaders had done in the old world,they specifically created this climate of separation of churh and state.

today ,these liars(conservatives)are trying to sell the ignorant into believing what they are saying has been true forever.

when it has not.


don't buy your history books at those "christian" book stores in the mall.





and jesus was a Gnostic.(really he was a rabbi)judaism is interpreted by "those that feel","cabala",
the Qumran community were gnostics.

the cathars

and the arians(followers of Arius)


Gnosticism is the same thing as taoism. and any other tradition of "knowing" god.following the "way".
all religions have their "mystical" side.

christians,jews,muslims, all have mystical traditions.

these are the "pure" side of these religions.

the side that gets caught up in dogma,are the ones that get corrupted.


so you people can believe your religion as you see it, but if you are a citizen of the united states ,you should leave the bible out of it.

it is a nice collection of stories,mostly bull;but what the hell.

jedi knights are getting counted on the census forms .
and christianity is no more silly than that.

[Edited by remember on 07-29-2004 at 08:06 PM]

[bootlen]

Originally posted by remember
religous f#*king fruitcakes.


religion is not what made this country great.

and now these partially informed zealots think there is real history on there side.

they are delusional and the evangelical movement has been co-opted by the republican party,and is using the ignorance of many people against the good of the country.


the founding fathers were especially leary of organized religions,and seeing what harm the "blindfaith" to religious leaders had done in the old world,they specifically created this climate of separation of churh and state.

today ,these liars(conservatives)are trying to sell the ignorant into believing what they are saying has been true forever.

when it has not.


don't buy your history books at those "christian" book stores in the mall.





and jesus was a Gnostic.(really he was a rabbi)judaism is interpreted by "those that feel","cabala",
the Qumran community were gnostics.

the cathars

and the arians(followers of Arius)


Gnosticism is the same thing as taoism. and any other tradition of "knowing" god.following the "way".
all religions have their "mystical" side.

christians,jews,muslims, all have mystical traditions.

these are the "pure" side of these religions.

the side that gets caught up in dogma,are the ones that get corrupted.


so you people can believe your religion as you see it, but if you are a citizen of the united states ,you should leave the bible out of it.

it is a nice collection of stories,mostly bull;but what the hell.

jedi knights are getting counted on the census forms .
and christianity is no more silly than that.

[Edited by remember on 07-29-2004 at 08:06 PM]

================================================== ==========

Inaccurate, therefore irrelevant.

[cehs]

Originally posted by remember
religous f#*king fruitcakes.

religion is not what made this country great.

and now these partially informed zealots think there is real history on there side.

they are delusional and the evangelical movement has been co-opted by the republican party,and is using the ignorance of many people against the good of the country.


the founding fathers were especially leary of organized religions,and seeing what harm the "blindfaith" to religious leaders had done in the old world,they specifically created this climate of separation of churh and state.

The founding fathers prefered that we elect a GODLY man. You don't know what the true intent of the beginning of this country was.

today ,these liars(conservatives)are trying to sell the ignorant into believing what they are saying has been true forever.

when it has not.

don't buy your history books at those "christian" book stores in the mall.

and jesus was a Gnostic.(really he was a rabbi)judaism is interpreted by "those that feel","cabala",
the Qumran community were gnostics.

the cathars

and the arians(followers of Arius)

Gnosticism is the same thing as taoism. and any other tradition of "knowing" god.following the "way".
all religions have their "mystical" side.

christians,jews,muslims, all have mystical traditions.

these are the "pure" side of these religions.

the side that gets caught up in dogma,are the ones that get corrupted.

so you people can believe your religion as you see it, but if you are a citizen of the united states ,you should leave the bible out of it.

it is a nice collection of stories,mostly bull;but what the hell.

jedi knights are getting counted on the census forms .
and christianity is no more silly than that.
[Edited by remember on 07-29-2004 at 08:06 PM]

You sir are the missled AGNOSTIC, NOT JESUS...
You don't know history, you don't know religion, and I am beginning to see that you don't know politics...

You certainly don't seem to know God...

[bootlen]

Cehs, if remember knows anything or is right about anything, he has not posted it on this website.

[arc8]

Originally posted by remember
religous f#*king fruitcakes.

religion is not what made this country great.

and now these partially informed zealots think there is real history on there side.

they are delusional and the evangelical movement has been co-opted by the republican party,and is using the ignorance of many people against the good of the country.


the founding fathers were especially leary of organized religions,and seeing what harm the "blindfaith" to religious leaders had done in the old world,they specifically created this climate of separation of churh and state.

[QUOTE]You sir are the missled AGNOSTIC, NOT JESUS...
You don't know history, you don't know religion, and I am beginning to see that you don't know politics...

You certainly don't seem to know God...[QUOTE]

THE fool has said in his heart, There is no God. - God's word

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" - George Washington.

"That Book, sir, is the rock on which our republic rests." - Andrew Jackson

"Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian..." - Supreme Court decision (1892)

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." - Declaration of Independence 2nd paragraph

"I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion - for who can know the human heart? - but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable for the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or to a party, but it belongs to the whole rank of society." Alexis de Tocqueville

Separation of church and state was not a reaction against religion, but a reaction against the state; and it was not introduced by skeptics, but by Protestants largely for religious reasons.
Separation of church and state is a misnomer. When are the liberals ever gonna get smart.

The Puritans gave us our first written constitutions, regular elections, the secret ballot, the federalist principle, and separation of church and state. The Puritans, with their work ethic and their stress on equality under the law, made it possible for the capitalist spirit to triumph over hereditary privilege.
And these priciples came from the Word of God, I say very revelant for all times... period.

[hvacbear]

The only religion the foundin fathers did not allow was one sponsored by the government. They just came from that(England) they did come here to escape religious persecution.