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royc
07-03-2004, 08:39 AM
Freedom Means Servitude
Judith Moriarty
noahshouse@adelphia.net
7-2-4

I heard the usual mind-numbed fools, calling into C-Span this morning, lauding going to war. They felt that everyone should do their DUTY by being drafted into the military. Naturally those croaking such insanities, are doing so between breaths of oxygen-taking their heart medications, putting their Depend diapers on, bunion pads, and elastic waist pants! That, or they're calling in from some off-shore island, or foreign resort, where there's no chance that all of this patriotism and nationalism will be visited on themslurp!

Forced servitude or conscription to serve the interests of corporate hucksters, is no longer FREEDOM-but slavery. Either we are a mindless herd to be driven from battlefield to battlefield or INDIVIDUALS, making our own choices as to the days of our lives. If a person chooses to spend their life sitting on a tree stump in some back marsh spitting tobacco FINE. Forced volunteerism is a oxymoron, whether it be in the schools or called to kill.

Nobody has the right to determine my child's future. Nobody has the right to demand that a child be trained to go off to a foreign land to kill another mother's child, so that oil fields might be confiscated, pipelines protected, and timber and water stolen! This is NOT about invasion or protecting one's country from invading hordes. One man said this morning, "Being drafted made a man out of me!" Really! And what is a man? Is learning to kill-to be conditioned to stack naked bodies, to set snarling dogs on people, to kick down doors, to set villages on fire, the new credentials for manhood? Give me a man who will risk his life to save another not destroy. Give me a man who spends his life making the place where he abides a better place. Better because he was there.

"There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." (Eisenhower) Man is free or he is a slave to the government and commanded to go and kill others. Today we see that this perversion of our freedoms can call men back to duty who have already served, or keep soldiers extended for as long as desired-or until they end up getting blown to smithereens.

American Foreign Policy was based upon the wisdom of Washington's Farewell Address ( I bet you won't find this in your child's history book-if they have one). The defeat of the Confederacy during the War for the Right to Secede set this nation upon a road to empire. The actions of Roosevelt and Wilson set the stage for the society that we have become. The masters are no longer the people, but the people have been conditioned and programmed to think of themselves as drones-non-persons within their own land.

Are we to believe the voices of today's public relations jingoism- that allegiance or love for one's nation is judged by one's willingness to kill a stranger, who is of no threat to me or mine (outside a full tank of gas!). This perversion sees us no longer protecting our shores but protecting the interests of the Corporate/State. The mindless, soulless, malignant, malevolent, conscienceless Corporate/State is now disguised as Lady Liberty and Uncle Sam. Beneath the red-white and boo and crown of yellow ribbons is a pimp and his whore.

All this brouhaha, of dressing up and marching off to invade foreign lands in pre-emptive strikes, while the lie imploded at our feet! WAKE-UP. Over these many decades trillions have been spent under the guise of a cold war-national defense-intelligence etc., to supposedly defend us from harm. Really! On Sept. 11-2001 this lie was shown as volcanic clouds of ash chased citizens down concrete canyons! Protection! Everyone sat on their asses, went to take a leak, called the wrong office, or stood around like obedient lap dogs that they were and waited for someone to tell them to do their jobs and PROTECT AMERICA! Trillions! And we are led to believe that some grubby cave men, took some lessons on two seated crop dusters, bought some box cutters, and just shocked and surprised everyone! Well by God then everyone needs to have their ass fired.

A joke of a Commission is set up, and we all know what the report will say. Most of us with any literacy skills and a GED could write it now. White -out the word Warren and magic bullet and insert 911 and magic planes and there you have it. Oh, and the findings that these incompetent, inept, lying bastards need billions more in funds so that they can continue on in their labyrinths of nothingness.

Excuse me, but the idea that a citizen has a duty to serve his government (which is hello himself) is a malignant perversion of the proper obligation that a citizen has to his neighbor and society. A archaic idea, and not spoken of in today's" Shock and Awe Theater;" but each individual person is to choose the course of action in his/her own life which will create the greatest good. For all these wars, all these deaths, all these walls and marble memorials, are we any better off? How does a nation protect it's people and it's shores when the land is emptied of it's men? Men off in desert lands protecting pipelines and protecting a puppet government for a puppet people! A people given no voice in their supposed "liberation".

Defense of one's homeland is a legitimate call to arms. A people have a right to self-defense. One does not have the right to be commanded to take another's life for any other reason. All life is sacred. No man-politician or otherwise, has the right to order a nation's youngsters to become killers of mankind. There is no argument here. Those without conscience or a moral compass have no problem in creating a world of killing forever. "Choose you this day whom you will serve".

The carnage and chaos of war creates monsters. Monsters of insatiable greed, and corrupted power, who in their delusional state of mind see themselves as gods. Men, hollow soulless men, in plush board rooms, and war rooms, moving the people of the world around as if they were mere pieces on a global board game. Monopoly gone mad! Monopoly, with its "enemy combatants" disappeared ones, with no rights and no voice. The innocent caught up with the truly guilty (whoever that might be) too bad, tough luck. Is this the "freedom" that men/women are ordered to die for?

On 9/11/2001 we the people (we) became the enemy. The victims in this mad board game are now searched, scanned, fingerprinted, stopped at road blocks, or beaten down by men with clubs, stun guns, tear gas, and jaw shattering plastic bullets. Is this what global freedom means? Dissent and freedom of speech are now marked as the enemy. Is this what our children and children's children should die for? Why should our nation's children die for a foreign land to be liberated while it's own is being enslaved? What's wrong with this picture?

War turns men into monsters. Abusing, torturing, assaulting, and sexually humiliating citizens, caught up in village sweeps. Citizens from small farms and villages labeled "camel jockeys-towel heads-rag heads-sand niggers". One dehumanizes others in war so that it is more acceptable to kill and torture. Men become depraved monsters shooting down (in their fear) any and all who threaten. Some in this madness kill for the sheer joy of it. I saw a young man/boy of perhaps twenty on the news. He was in a snit because he'd been assigned guard duty. With a sullen snarl, when interviewed he said, "I was trained to kick down doors and shoot people, not to stand around doing nothing". This snot nosed kid- who just a few months back was probably hanging out at the mall or on a local street corner in Any Town USA, is now waiting for the thrill to kill.

Those returned from war end up in shelters, under bridges, or abandoned cars. Some never acclimate back to small town- work a day living. From a warrior, with the power to kill, now back in rust town USA, is quite a downer. No more gun-no more legal authority to kill. Now he's just another citizen watching out for the local cop to stop him for a speeding or traffic violation. Others are crippled for life; absent sight, limbs or their minds. They are now just mere cannon fodder. Much like litter they end up kicked to the curb.

Vice President Cheney who received numerous deferments has no problem with sending future generations off to fight Forever Wars (our new economy). He said, "The war on terrorism will not be over in our lifetime. It is different than the cold war in the sense that it may NEVER END, at least not in our lifetime. The way I think of it -it's a new normalcy" (Oct 21-2001).

Think on these words of his. This new "normalcy" is continuing war. Children marked to die in this perverse "new normalcy". Is the world we want-this madness that sees war, continual never ending war as a "new normalcy". Not for him-deferred again. Why give birth, if you know you're merely incubating a commodity until the state is ready to assign him/her to a killing field? And so we are spending approximately five billion plus per month on war and the invention of bigger and better annihilating weaponry. Not on schools, hospitals, affordable housing, a real energy policy (minus dependence on oil), education (minus change agents with their testing), our decaying infra-structure or medical care minus the corporate vampires of the pharmaceutical-insurance-and HMOs, who decide who will live and who will not in some distant sterile cubicle. Rest assured this injustice is not visited on our politicians or retired Presidents. They have made sure that they have the best of insurance (we pay 72% of costs) and pensions that are obscene. Meanwhile they allow ours to be stolen. How long can a nation working at Wal-Marts-Prisons-Convenience Stores-Home Depots-as black-jack dealers-ski lift operators or maids support forever and ever war? Just wondering?

bootlen
07-03-2004, 08:59 AM
Inaccurate, therefore irrelevant.

bobby7388
07-03-2004, 10:37 AM
This article has so many contradictions in itself... how can you take the author seriously?
Once again I see the "Oil Conspiracy" theroy tucked neatly in here so as not to give the reader the impression of narrow minded thought process in creating this piece of work.
Anyone with half a brain and common sense can evaluate the total situation and come to the conclusion that micro analyzing is not the answer to fighting extremist. But once again what we have is someone that really has no practical answers to fighting terrorism, but has quite a large opinion on the matter of how bad it must be for those that do.


I wonder if she has ever experienced combat on a one-to-one basis? most unlikely, because if she has she would know that men don't kill and die for thier country, they kill and die for thier friends. Or in other words to hell with you or your problems or opinions, your not worth the dirt that I step on. But my friends in my company, squad, are worth killing and dieing for.


RoyC; I wonder if you have any thoughts of your own? or do you just systematically post others opinions in the hope you look original.

maintenanceguy
07-03-2004, 01:44 PM
As soon as the oil conspiracy theory show up I thought "Oh...its one of those people" and stopped reading.

rob10
07-03-2004, 02:45 PM
The price we pay now and the price we have paid before has never been cheap. The liberals who write this garbage expect everybody else to pay for everything.

Roscoe
07-03-2004, 03:15 PM
communism failed

remember
07-03-2004, 09:13 PM
IF any of you people do NOT think this war is for oil,stand up.

you are a moron.

give some reasons for your delusions.

besides ,"they said so"

wake-up you petro-junkies,and think.

bobby7388
07-03-2004, 10:27 PM
Here is a perfect example of using a general comment to convey to others what they want you to believe. Remember says; the war is all about oil, so that must mean that America will reap all the spoils of war. So, so, so simple!

Where in gods name to you get that conclusion?
Yes! the overall objective is to keep what is a inherently unstable area from falling into the hands of a man like Saddam Hussien. Apparently the muslim countries can't or won't handle him, so who will?
How many times do you need to be reminded of his track record? by invading Kuwait he sealed his own demise. This sort of behavior could spin the world into World War very easily.

But instead you rant and rave about typical, shallow theroies which in the real world have no merit.

James 3528
07-03-2004, 10:41 PM
I like oil. What is wrong with oil?

motorboy1
07-04-2004, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by bootlen
Inaccurate, therefore irrelevant.

Redundant, therefore an idiot.

hvacbear
07-04-2004, 02:06 AM
If this is about oil why do we pay close to two dollars a gallon at the pump???????

motorboy1
07-04-2004, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by hvacbear
If this is about oil why do we pay close to two dollars a gallon at the pump???????

Don't you get it? Halliburton/Cheney and their no bid contracts plus Iraq equals damn near free oil for Halliburton/Cheney. They in turn sell it to us suckers at a huge profit. Bush and Co. don't want oil prices to go down because their profits will decrease. That's why it's all about oil. It may seem simplistic but I'll bet I'm closer to the truth than we'll ever know.

bobby7388
07-04-2004, 11:58 AM
Then apparently you have no real conception of how a true free market economy works.

Supply and Demand will dictate the cost. This priciple rides on a revolving wheel, one could either benifit the other or, as we saw in the spring one could actually hurt the other.
As an example, if the cost goes up as it did demand could fall. Now there are two options; 1)Raise prices to cover the losses(not economicly practical for long term goals) or, lower prices to entice demand increase, hence more will be purchased, and as long as supply can keep up prices will stay stable.
By simply holding back on product will in the long term backfire.
And Bush will not do such a thing risking his election prospects to a second term.


Speculation is probably the largest force applied to oil prices. This is where world politics plays are very large role.

James 3528
07-04-2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by motorboy1

Originally posted by hvacbear
If this is about oil why do we pay close to two dollars a gallon at the pump???????

Don't you get it? Halliburton/Cheney and their no bid contracts plus Iraq equals damn near free oil for Halliburton/Cheney. They in turn sell it to us suckers at a huge profit. Bush and Co. don't want oil prices to go down because their profits will decrease. That's why it's all about oil. It may seem simplistic but I'll bet I'm closer to the truth than we'll ever know.

You need help. You are closer to a straightjacket than you will ever know.

Boss
07-04-2004, 01:23 PM
James - talk about the issues, not the other HVAC-Talk members.

infwsdm
07-05-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by remember


IF any of you people do NOT think this war is for oil,stand up.

you are a moron.

give some reasons for your delusions.

besides ,"they said so"

wake-up you petro-junkies,and think.

look in a mirror goofball!!

remember
07-06-2004, 10:04 PM
let's go through this again ,for those of you yhat missed it.



this war is about oil.


the future of american hegemony is about oil.



our economy demands a CHEAP supply of oil.
$28/barrel is optimum

the reason america helped create saddam throughout the 70's and 80's was about oil.the reason we helped him murder and oppress those people was for oil.the "REALPOLITIC" is oil.

the reason we overthrew the democratically elected administration of mossadegh in Iran in 1954 ,was about oil.
(ask me ,if you want me to go into the complicated arrangement of deals that the "anglo-arabian oil co" had in fleecing the Iranians)

the only reson that the entire mideast is of any strategic importance at all,is about oil.


our economy is based on oil
as an extremely efficient form of energy production with a myriad of other vital uses.


our economy doesn't HAVE to be based on oil,but that is how the major financial/petro industry has created the infrastructure around which all other players in that so-called "market-system" of ours depends.


this is the world now.


the world oil production capacity is near its maximum.

in the oil field that sits under Iran/Iraq/saudi arabia/kuwait is @ 65% of the worlds oil supply.


deals have been made with all the parties involved over the decades,that individuals can "make" vast fortunes for themselves,as long as they provide the world markets with oil at a "reasonable" ( $28/barrel recently)price;and most importantly,with as little disruption of flow as possible.
they ,also as "the front man",deflect the appearance of colonization,which proved to be unworkable in centuries of colonizing by the european powers,with the result always being eventual revolution,when the economic intrests are forfeitted completely.
the arrangement of shared profits is better in the "long term",as it stands.

dictatorial gov'ts are better equipped to "reform"populations and keep people in line,so as to deliver that oil.that is why we as a foreign policy;destroy democratically elected leaders(they try to nationalize their resources,for the good of their own people)
We prop up and perpetuate dictators.

the shared parts are that the major oil companies actually make their money from refining oil,not drilling it.

Standard oil;which is now called:(Exxon,mobil,sunoco,chevron,texaco,marathon ,conoco,phillips,etc.)are refiners.they contract out buying oil from drillers.
some companies,like parts of halliburton,manufacture,build and maintain pipelines and drilling equiptment.

they supply the oil drillers which tend to be "the foreign" entities in these transactions.

and a family like ,house of SAUD,just has to keep the tap running,and it will recieve whatever help is possible to stay in power.

and all the people making a fine living on the "wheel"of oil,just need to keep it going as long as possible.





right now,the world oil fields are at near peak production.

the US uses a disprportionately large portion of the oil that is being pumped and refined all over the world.


there have been no new oil fields found since 1976.that it is possible to get the oil at the "cheap"price.with the "cheap" methods of drilling.


if they were to find a field today,it would be at lest a decade before any of that oil could be brought to market.
but they didn't find any.

and your are talking about the need to find a "serious" amount.
not like the "smokescreen" of drilling in anwahr,alaska;which at most might have about enough oil to keep the world oiled for two months or so.not a real solution,just a diversion.

and the oil production being near its peak,means that right now,we are nearing that equilibrium point.


but the real picture lies in the future.


we use a large percentage of the oil coming out.

this country is growing.

after the energy crises of the 70's,we made our energy usage more efficient on the whole.which decreased our consuption,though we produced more energy.to meet the needs of a growing population and growing economy.


now ,with high efficiency,our consuption is growing again.
our population is growing.
for our "market-economy"to prosper,growth is required.
capitalistic economic growth as an ideal requires infinite growth potential.


the oil supply is finite.

our demand on it is growing.
our economic models require growth.

still,this is just our little supply and demand dillemma.




welcome to china.
welcome to india


a huge population that right now is largely agrarian.

they are builing highways in china,like we did in the 50's.
they are building automobile plants.
India is doing the same thing.

In the near future these countries,will compete with us for a greater share of the world oil production,which is already near its peak.

point 1)
notice where the main oil reserves in the world are:

middle east,
caspian sea region(uzbeckestan,turkministan,etc)former soviet union

west africa:niger,libya,congo(also in the east as in sudan)
south america:columbia,venezuala
and of course ,around our borders.


point2)
notice the deployment of american troops

middle eastern oil field-Iraq
afghanistan(decided upon pipeline route for caspian exports to markets in china and india)*note
uzbecastan,turkministan,etc.
west africa,niger
libya has been brought on line with offers of legitimacy and promises of dynasty building;so much for being a terrorist,quadaffy.
navy is building ports on west coast region now.
"plan columbia",troops in there for war on drugs(don't get me started)
Venuzuela is in play(the cia orchestrating coup's,and the new york times spreading anti-chaves propaganda)
are some peacemakers going to sudan soon?

point3)
dick cheney's energy task force:
from the 7 pages released from the judicial watch lawsuit;
it was a report of:
how much oil is left in the world?
where is it?
where are the distribution points?

point 4)
the oil refining industry is producing at full capacity
this is where our current shortage is from.
the industry doesn't want to bring any more refining plants online,because they are unsure there will be enough cheap oil in the future to pay off the investment of such major proportions.


point 5)
oil is not just for energy

The "Green revolution" was the invention of petro-chemical based fertilizer..eating oil.

the 6 billion people on this planet,are more than an "organic" agrarian world could produce food for.
2.5 billion ,it is estimated is all that nature could supply food for.and that would mean cutting down all of our forests for space to grow food.


PVC pipe is up in price because it is made out of oil.
every industry and buisness uses energy,so all the other parts of the "market -economy" is dependant on cheap energy.
look at the buisness's shutting down in california,when the energy companies were scamming them.so much for profit.
no profit=no buisness.
the end of capitalism as we know it.



point6)
so if you are wondering ,where is the immediate payoff;
big buisness needs to "grease the wheels" to sustain lucrative relationships,and long term growth.
we don't need to "take the oil,and sit on it",all that would do is make us targets and that would disrupt production.

and you and I will pay $2/gal. because we are only in that equation to be paying customers,not beneficiaries.

point 7)Afghanistan


the US troops in that country to stabilize it to the point they can finally build that pipeline to china from the caspian sea area.
are only benefitting american companies already invested in the project for billions of dollars.since the early 90's.(exxon,mobil,chevron,uno-cal)

that oil is going to china and india,because these companies can make more money selling it to them.
there is no patriotic oil company.
multi-nationals are loyal only to themselves.
america will have to pay the price,if it wants to play the game.
and much of the profits those companies make ,will escape the cut the IRS gets too.
but the american soldiers over there dying for their profits; are given at only a price to the taxpayers and their families.
so don't expect any breaks.

bootlen
07-07-2004, 05:51 PM
...and Col. Mustard killed Mr. Plum in the library.

rob10
07-07-2004, 06:16 PM
I want the oil because it's ours. Plain and simple!!

bobby7388
07-07-2004, 10:53 PM
From what I gather you are saying that oil is the overriding factor in all our deployments.
If that is correct do you have any factual information to base this on? or is it just assumptions?

Answer me this riddle, if we need or want all the worlds oil then why didn't we just keep Kuwait back in "91"? It was there and open for the taking from them, what!! that would be wrong.
Better yet, why not just support Saddam and buy it all from him at reduced prices, you know; Haliburton could have struck up a great deal.

Does any of this make sense?

bootlen
07-08-2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by bobby7388
From what I gather you are saying that oil is the overriding factor in all our deployments.
If that is correct do you have any factual information to base this on? or is it just assumptions?

Answer me this riddle, if we need or want all the worlds oil then why didn't we just keep Kuwait back in "91"? It was there and open for the taking from them, what!! that would be wrong.
Better yet, why not just support Saddam and buy it all from him at reduced prices, you know; Haliburton could have struck up a great deal.

Does any of this make sense?



================================================== ==========

Correct-o-mundo, Bobby. Of course, nothing Remember says, or copies, makes sense. Standard dem/lib garbage put to print.

remember
07-08-2004, 06:50 PM
halliburton was buying oil from iraq,under the oil for food program.

and most of all;

we didn't "lose" that oil.

after the war:
harken energy got a sweetheart deal for oil contracts in the gulf of bahrain.,even though the company was "out of its league"with such a substantial deal.
GWBUSH screwed it up,

but he did manage to sell his stock before the bottom fell out.
interesting how those papers didn't turn up till several years later,SAYING they were only filed months late.
either way it was enough time for "insider trading" to be effective.

than bush took that money and bought himself a ball team.


but like I said before,we don't want to be seen as an empire.
the relationship with the kuwaiti's as with the saudi's has been forming for decades.

there was no need to stay,the big oil companies made plenty of money in the last decade,no need to be foolish and shoot the goose that lays the golden egg.

so in answer to your question,yes,oil is the reason for our stance in the region.

that is the only commodity there worth creating the dictatorships,that have fostered all this anti-american hatred.


and I can't say what the future will hold.

and there is no reson for you to believe anything just because I say it;so you can investigate for yourself if you like.

that is up to us to make our best guess and prepare ourselves accordingly.


and BOOtlen,,you wouldn't know accuracy,if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.ignorance isn't a virtue.