Fahrenheit 9/11

[mayguy]

Anyone see this movie yet?

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808569540&intl=us

What did you think of it?

I think it was a great movie, and had some good laugh too.

They were showing it on 2 screens, and it was almost sold out.

[Yuma]

Conceder who made it....

Then write it off... (Go see the Sponge Bob Movie instead)


Yuma,

[Diceman]

I saw it, that's the world we live in, quite a bit different from what our forefathers imagined.
Power and greed rule us, scarey.
I liked the movie a lot. And he knocks the demos too, but not near as bad GW.

[mayguy]

One thing I wanted to add, Only 1.. Yes ONE member of the congess has a child in the war. Micheal went up to a few members and none of them want to sent thier child to war!?

[docholiday]

Yeah, save them from war, wait till its on our turf.

[bootlen]

Just found out today that Michael Moore's source of information and creativity is the National Lampoon.

[i_got_ideas]

I can't wait to see it. Even though it is sure to be a source of good information I do plan to keep in mind that it's just a movie.

[icemeister]

Ms Icemeister and I went to see it this afternoon. It was very well done, informative and as Dice said....scary, when you consider how much power and influence well-connected people can have in major world events.

Certainly this film takes a liberal slant, but the film footage gathered by Moore and his crew is telling a story that needs to be seen and heard.

Regardless of your political views, this movie will get you emotionally cranked up. I'd say it's a "must see".

[swat]

Even though it does have a liberal slant it makes you at least think about who and what you are voting for. I am glad the movie was made and think it was definitely slanted but this guy did the same thing with bowling for columbine and it challeneged me, the way i think and process things, and my view on life. Prior to it I wsa just another Joe following the guy in front of me not really questioing who what when why how or where just going with the flow and trusting in the people in office. I at least pay attention now and think about things that are going on. I know who I will not be voting for this year anyways.

[James 3528]

Should of used the money to become a ****site supporter****



But Mr. Moore thanks you

http://images6.fotki.com/v87/photos/2/229253/823718/Moore_a_fat-vi.jpg

[Diceman]

According to James, anyone who disagrees with the current administration is not a good American, but when Clinton was in office.....well............that was different, ask Rash Limberger, who is on his second divorce and almost kicked his nasty drug habit, but his family values are OK I guess.

[spotts]

never can find any footage of Sadaams crew gang raping women in the streets in front of their families then slicing their guts open so they can all watch them squirm to their deaths...... No footage of people being thrown feet first into the shredder. No, no footage of why we are there, only footage to make us look like were "The bully next door". James, that is a very good picture.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman
According to James, anyone who disagrees with the current administration is not a good American, but when Clinton was in office.....well............that was different, ask Rash Limberger, who is on his second divorce and almost kicked his nasty drug habit, but his family values are OK I guess.

LOL

[James 3528]

Originally posted by spotts
never can find any footage of Sadaams crew in gang raping women in the streets in front of their families then slicing their guts open so they can all watch them squirm to their deaths...... No footage of people being thrown feet first into the shredder. No, no footage of why we are there, only footage to make us look like were "The bully next door". James, that is a very good picture.


Thank you. Nice Dice's son got back home safe. Hope everyone else's does. Maybe Mr. Moore will get his picture on wall in the Taliban museum as a honor for his effort. Wonder how many militants he and John Kerry recruited that RPG'ed a US Soldier?

http://kerrylied.com/....NEVER trust a Hippy.




.

[Diceman]

True he did, many did not, next he is on the list for Iraq in about 6 months. Funny, I was at his commissioning ceremony and I remember the part about defending and protecting our country, I must have missed the part about protecting Iraq. My bad.
And since they had nothing to do with 9-11 and all the hijackers came from Saudi, why didn't we invade them. Their human rights policy is atrocious and they behead people in soccer arenas too. Oh wait, they are our friends, sure they are, till we stop buying oil from them anyway. And if ya wanted Bin Laden why not send 130,000 troops to Afghanny where he was, why only 20,000? Rumsfeld said yesterday that the Russians had 130,000 troops in Afghanny for years, what did they get out of before they packed up and left, not much I'm afraid.
We had isloated Saddam with no fly zones, economic pressure and could have made it tougher on his kind of horrible dictatorship by building a world alliance and waited to help the people of Iraq till they were ready to free themselves, that is the only way it will last, as we fought for our freedom over 200 years ago. By turning our military into an occupational police force in a hotbed of unrest and terrorism that has been going on for hundreds if not a thousand years in a desert of civil unrest that would take millions of troops, years to straighten out, in doing that we have accomplished little. What we have accomplished will be gone the day after we leave. All these fictious handing over of power and training their troops is doomed to failure in the Muslim culture which still keeps their women shrouded in secrecy and treats those that don't believe as
inhuman. For a president who said he was against nation building in his pre-election political campaign to have taken on the mideast like he did just astounds me.
The movie's numbers speak for themselves as does the drop off of American backing in the war, as does the drop off in allies and support world wide which we have lost like no time in history since WWII, as does the other failures both economically and politically which this administration has mustered. For a president who lost the poplular vote in an election to have done all this also astounds me.
Anyway, good to James got out of the mother/daughter sex slave thingy:)
Although I think he has decided to only talk politics in here as otherwise he has disappeared frm the hvac talk side of the forum.
There is some hope, he ain't great by any means but at least he aint Bush, and that's a positive step in the right direction.
http://www.johnkerry.com

[Diceman]

By the way, I can get you pics of our leaders escourting the Taliban around Washington and giving Saddam stuff if ya want.

[James 3528]

No need, If I ever do watch Fahrenheit 9/11 I'll look close at the credits for your name.

[DeltaT]

Among all your bickering...so what the heck is the movie about anyway?

I don't paln on seeing it but always enjoy different points of view. Michael tends to make things look more simplier than they really are IMHO. He couldn't run the country any better than anyone else who tries. But he can critize and who can't.

Being born 3 blocks from the Capitol and raised 25 blocks from it I tend to be allergic to these crusades by various groups/people that show up each and every day on the Capital steps blocking traffic and protesting whatever their interests are. Not saying it's bad at all. Just try to live there though.

Remember, Michael is in charge of his camera and the lens only shows what he is looking to prove, which can be real or unreal. But even in his Crysler film he did not show the entire picture cosidering all the decisions and consequences of those decisions by Crystler management. It's a no win situation, typically.

Everything there is about someone's special interest. The congress must have a certain type of person to be in Congress, as in any form of government anywhere, because as a representative you have to be able to tell people what they want to hear even if it doesn't make any sense. Talk about extremists, spend some time in DC. Everyone there is on some form of a mission for good or bad or indifferent.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by DeltaT
Among all your bickering...so what the heck is the movie about anyway?

I don't paln on seeing it but always enjoy different points of view. Michael tends to make things look more simplier than they really are IMHO. He couldn't run the country any better than anyone else who tries. But he can critize and who can't.

Being born 3 blocks from the Capitol and raised 25 blocks from it I tend to be allergic to these crusades by various groups/people that show up each and every day on the Capital steps blocking traffic and protesting whatever their interests are. Not saying it's bad at all. Just try to live there though.

Remember, Michael is in charge of his camera and the lens only shows what he is looking to prove, which can be real or unreal. But even in his Crysler film he did not show the entire picture cosidering all the decisions and consequences of those decisions by Crystler management. It's a no win situation, typically.

Everything there is about someone's special interest. The congress must have a certain type of person to be in Congress, as in any form of government anywhere, because as a representative you have to be able to tell people what they want to hear even if it doesn't make any sense. Talk about extremists, spend some time in DC. Everyone there is on some form of a mission for good or bad or indifferent.


The movie is like the Holy Grail for the Liberals. With a zero for a candidate, they line up out side the theaters star struck like catholics outside church that have seen the virgin Mary in a window with a 100 watt light bulb behind it.



God forgive me.

[DeltaT]

"The movie is like the Holy Grail for the Liberals. With a zero for a candidate, they line up out side the theaters star struck like catholics outside church that have seen the virgin Mary in a window with a 100 watt light bulb behind it"

Is this the Monty Phython Holy Grail version? I liked that.

Remind me to never stand next to you during a lightning storm.

[spotts]

how Big Bad Ugly American Companys are over there in Iraq "Making Money off this war!"

Hmmmmmm at least they're working to rebuild it!

That fat slob is personally making more than any of them.... Yes, directly off the war! what'd he gross? 21 Mil this weekend? Only he's not helping to do anything, he's just getting fatter, and uglier.
What a HIPOcrite.

[tinner73]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeltaT
[B]Among all your bickering...so what the heck is the movie about anyway?

I don't paln on seeing it but always enjoy different points of view. Michael tends to make things look more simplier than they really are IMHO. He couldn't run the country any better than anyone else who tries. But he can critize and who can't.

Being born 3 blocks from the Capitol and raised 25 blocks from it I tend to be allergic to these crusades by various groups/people that show up each and every day on the Capital steps blocking traffic and protesting whatever their interests are. Not saying it's bad at all. Just try to live there though.

Remember, Michael is in charge of his camera and the lens only shows what he is looking to prove, which can be real or unreal. But even in his Crysler film he did not show the entire picture cosidering all the decisions and consequences of those decisions by Crystler management. It's a no win situation, typically.

Everything there is about someone's special interest. The congress must have a certain type of person to be in Congress, as in any form of government anywhere, because as a representative you have to be able to tell people what they want to hear even if it doesn't make any sense. Talk about extremists, spend some time in DC. Everyone there is on some form of a mission for good or bad or indifferent.





his first movie was about GM, not Chrysler, i dont recall what year it was when GM took most of it's plants from Flint MI and moved them down to Mexico. GM made that move dispite record profits at the time. he lived in Flint at the time and started his own paper. lots of unemployment and misery came to Flint. he said the paper got zero results so he decieded to make a movie about Roger Smith who ordered the closings.

[alex_in_fl]

Have not seen the movie yet but my problem is that Moore is calling it a documentary. By definition, a documentary means factual and unbaised. Moore is about as unbaised as Kerry is conservative and Clinton (either of them) are honest.

If he called it a work of fiction then okay but to pretend this is a documentary is just plain wrong.

Alex

(Facts is Facts tootsie...even if you don't like them)

[karsthuntr]

Originally posted by spotts


That fat slob is personally making more than any of them.... Yes, directly off the war! what'd he gross? 21 Mil this weekend? Only he's not helping to do anything, he's just getting fatter, and uglier.
What a HIPOcrite.


If you want to see the movie butdon't want to give money to Moore, buy a ticket for another movie(I suggest "White Chicks" and go see Moore's movie. He won't get a d**n dime.

[bb]

I heard that he portrayed the Saudi embassy as the only one that got secret service protection.

What a Biased Mess

He won't get my money !

[tinner73]

he was on 60 minutes on Sunday. he makes no bones about it being biased, he doesn't like Bush, he doesn't like corporate America. he likes to ruffle feathers. he doesn't like politicians in general, but then again who does??

[frozensolid]

I thought that was good Dice. Tell your son Thank You, for the blind courage to go where the President sends him. He honors his nation.

This movie does document events, plenty of real video. Truth with opinion, is still truth.

I just hope G.W is exactly like his daddy. Pillage, and plunder. Then get out in four years before they want to hang you. The alternative scares me.

I am not voting for Kerry, I vote against Bush.

[Diceman]

When being a politician became a career instead of a public service it all went downhill.
Now we are run by big business and lobbyists influencing the election for someone that is suppose to be doing it as an honorary service to our country. Both parties are equally guilty of this.

[Diceman]

Originally posted by tinner73
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeltaT

his first movie was about GM, not Chrysler, i dont recall what year it was when GM took most of it's plants from Flint MI and moved them down to Mexico. GM made that move dispite record profits at the time. he lived in Flint at the time and started his own paper. lots of unemployment and misery came to Flint. he said the paper got zero results so he decieded to make a movie about Roger Smith who ordered the closings.



I think it was called Roger & Me. I remember seeing it and thinking it was pretty damn good. Now all the companies are "outsourcing" as we lose more and more "good" jobs. The ones we are gaining now are mostly low paying jobs. But I guess some of you conservatives like that and think it is good for our country or something.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by frozensolid


I am not voting for Kerry, I vote against Bush.

I think Rob once called you "Frozenskull"

[Diceman]

As usual the name calling and put downs now begin, that's why I left ARP.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by tinner73
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeltaT

his first movie was about GM, not Chrysler, i dont recall what year it was when GM took most of it's plants from Flint MI and moved them down to Mexico. GM made that move dispite record profits at the time. he lived in Flint at the time and started his own paper. lots of unemployment and misery came to Flint. he said the paper got zero results so he decieded to make a movie about Roger Smith who ordered the closings.



I think it was called Roger & Me. I remember seeing it and thinking it was pretty damn good. Now all the companies are "outsourcing" as we lose more and more "good" jobs. The ones we are gaining now are mostly low paying jobs. But I guess some of you conservatives like that and think it is good for our country or something.

Did you get you bottle of generalization pills refilled. I believe when the high paying steel companies bailed from your town the democrats ran Washington and Wall Street.

[James 3528]

Oh, look. The lefty hippy's wanna take a shot and then act like they got shot.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman
As usual the name calling and put downs now begin, that's why I left ARP.

Too bad Rob is not here to defend hinself.

[Diceman]

He is busy taking and posting pics of his hot wife and the slavic dancer guy.

[alex_in_fl]

If you are voting against bush then just write in anybody but Bush. For the love of America just stay home if you feel obligated to vote for Kerry to vote against Bush.

Kerry ///never mind, don't get me started. A man may become president, not because any body voted FOR him but because they voted against his opponent. How sad. I have yet to meet (in person) a single democrat can provide a reason to vote FOR Kerry. That is even sadder.

Guys, show respect and avoid the name calling. Even people that are wrong should not be called names...unless you just want to call them ignorant. Use facts. Its more fun to argue with facts and really upsets the neo-liberals because they only have feel good catchy phrases on their side.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by frozensolid


I am not voting for Kerry, I vote against Bush.

I think Rob once called you "Frozenskull"

No. That was me;)

[infwsdm]

moore is anti-American. There is no two ways about it.

Whenever an American goes to another country to tell the people of that country that Americans are the dumbest people in the world......Need I say more??

[DeltaT]

Originally posted by Diceman
When being a politician became a career instead of a public service it all went downhill.

Have any of you guys ever studied how Congress gets paid? They pretty much write their own ticket to just about anything they want. They are allowed to make even more money outside of the Capitol through endorsements, speaches, books, etc.

They don't pay Social Security. They have their own retirement fund.

[frozensolid]

Conservitives are always right. Little things, like freedom of thought have no place in their world. Either you agree with them, or your skull must be frozen. Thats a fact, they all have trouble with.

Catchy phrase, Huh?

[ozone drone]

And ... Had they been born in Germany in the twenties ...would have happily goose stepped into line behind Adolph. "My Kountry ist alvays right unt I vas only vollowink orders"

[Diceman]

He makes movies on what he believes in. I suppose you should really see them before you make up your mind.
How much did Gibson make on the "Passion" anyway?
If ya make dough doing what you believe in, good for you, I thought that is what this country was all about?
He wouldn't be making any if a ton of people didn't agree with some of his views. I don't agree with everything in the movie but it is still worth seeing.
Or bury your head in the sand and beleive the spoiled rich kid from Texas whose daddy kept him out of Nam and trouble in general, who set him up in several biz's which he failed
miserably in, who covers up his school and military records for some strange reason, whose administration is divided, whose party picked him merely as front man to be pres and who didn't win the 1st popular election should be re-elected as the leader of the free world.

[spotts]

Who hates all capitalists!!!! My only point. That and he's ugly.

[Diceman]

Only when capitalisim becomes greed & gets in the way of what is right and best for our country.
His 1st film, Roger & Me, was ahead of it's time, the beginning of outsourcing and the loss of jobs, and how that hurts us, as a country.
Like I said, I DO NOT agree with everything Moore has said or done, and hs is kinda ugly, BUT, maybe we need someone on the far opposite side to oppose the right wing, ultra conservative faith based bunch that wants to choose our God for us, weaken our individual rights and tell us what we can and can't do in the privacy of our own homes. That's all.
As far as Moore and other countries, you are right, I don't really like that either but no one has done a better job of isolating us from the rest of the world than Bush. They now view us as bullys hellbent on our own agenda with little regard for what they think. It's ironic how the mid-east plan is all about stabilizing it so they can join in the rest of the free world and become allies while in doing so we PO'ed our real, long time allies.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman
He makes movies on what he believes in. I suppose you should really see them before you make up your mind.
How much did Gibson make on the "Passion" anyway?
If ya make dough doing what you believe in, good for you, I thought that is what this country was all about?
He wouldn't be making any if a ton of people didn't agree with some of his views. I don't agree with everything in the movie but it is still worth seeing.
Or bury your head in the sand and beleive the spoiled rich kid from Texas whose daddy kept him out of Nam and trouble in general, who set him up in several biz's which he failed
miserably in, who covers up his school and military records for some strange reason, whose administration is divided, whose party picked him merely as front man to be pres and who didn't win the 1st popular election should be re-elected as the leader of the free world.



And your service to the country is Generalization General, the same rank that Michael Moore holds as well as a lot of old hippie's .


George Bush, the right man at the right time. Senator Zell Miller (Democrat) US Marine.

[spotts]

Originally posted by Diceman
It's ironic how the mid-east plan is all about stabilizing it so they can join in the rest of the free world and become allies while in doing so we PO'ed our real, long time allies. [/B]


Like who? France and Germany? Some allies.

[arc8]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Diceman
It's ironic how the mid-east plan is all about stabilizing it so they can join in the rest of the free world and become allies while in doing so we PO'ed our real, long time allies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like who? France and Germany? Some allies.

Countries that are afraid to step on the muslim's toes.

Like I said, I DO NOT agree with everything Moore has said or done, and hs is kinda ugly, BUT, maybe we need someone on the far opposite side to oppose the right wing, ultra conservative faith based bunch that wants to choose our God for us, weaken our individual rights and tell us what we can and can't do in the privacy of our own homes. That's all.

Here we go again. On the contrary sir. The conservatives are the ones that want to uphold the constitution compared to the far left, who merely want is to get rid of it for their utopia sake, like socialism/communism.

Or bury your head in the sand and beleive the spoiled rich kid from Texas whose daddy kept him out of Nam and trouble in general, who set him up in several biz's which he failed
miserably in, who covers up his school and military records for some strange reason, whose administration is divided, whose party picked him merely as front man to be pres and who didn't win the 1st popular election should be re-elected as the leader of the free world.

So you have a problem. Too bad.

Conservitives are always right. Little things, like freedom of thought have no place in their world. Either you agree with them, or your skull must be frozen. Thats a fact, they all have trouble with.

Now that's a frozen skull(head).

Have any of you guys ever studied how Congress gets paid? They pretty much write their own ticket to just about anything they want. They are allowed to make even more money outside of the Capitol through endorsements, speaches, books, etc.

They don't pay Social Security. They have their own retirement fund.

When congressman/woman talk about keeping or not changing the social security program vehemently, ask them why they should be exempt from it. Talk about hypocrites.
Question? Are Democrats hypocrites?

Remind me to never stand next to you during a lightning storm.

Don't worry, God is protecting him from wicked ones.

According to James, anyone who disagrees with the current administration is not a good American, but when Clinton was in office.....well............that was different, ask Rash Limberger, who is on his second divorce and almost kicked his nasty drug habit, but his family values are OK I guess.

I thought it was his third?
There goes lumping all again.


I can understand fustration, but to be a socialist country, never!

[spotts]

We were a socialist country. Yea, us. U.S. Didn't take long for it to fail tho. That was our first try and quickly they found that socialism rewards the sloth, the fat, the lazy. Soon the skinny, hard working people quit producing everything for the benifit of the lazy majority and demanded to be paid fairly for their excessive work and walah! The birth of our capitalistic society.

[thehumid1]

Capatalist??????????You want capitalistism go south of the border there EVERYTHING can be bought and sold, justice,drugs, and R12 are just a few of them. U.S. is a long way from being a pure capatalist nation.

[spotts]

Originally posted by thehumid1
Capatalist??????????You want capitalistism go south of the border there EVERYTHING can be bought and sold, justice,drugs, and R12 are just a few of them. U.S. is a long way from being a pure capatalist nation.


And little girls and mommys who's sons say "Ches a Sherry"

[rob10]

BTW, michael moore is a PUTRID piece of crap!!

[Diceman]

Take off your blinders and look where we are headed.
Fortuantely my "moot" argument is setting box office records as the people of this country slowly wake up.

[air1]

Great movie! Everyone should watch it. Like the old lady in the movie said, "We've been duped".

[spotts]

Originally posted by Diceman
Take off your blinders and look where we are headed.
Fortuantely my "moot" argument is setting box office records as the people of this country slowly wake up.

Setting records? Kinda, it's opening weekend it ranked at 220th place in sales.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman
Take off your blinders and look where we are headed.
Fortuantely my "moot" argument is setting box office records as the people of this country slowly wake up.

0.82% of the population in fact saw the movie last weekend of which part walked out and some that it was as distorted and bias as your post



Spiderman out today. Goodbye Mr. Moore

[Diceman]

The majority of the population voted for Gore, based on what GW has done politically, internationally and economically it's hard to imagine him getting enough votes to continue his disasterous administration. But actullly we should vote for GW, let him clean up this mess he created.
Why should anyone else have to?

[Diceman]

Originally posted by spotts

Originally posted by Diceman
It's ironic how the mid-east plan is all about stabilizing it so they can join in the rest of the free world and become allies while in doing so we PO'ed our real, long time allies.


Like who? France and Germany? Some allies. [/B]
Virtually every country in Europe as well as Canada and Mexico. Even conservative leaders in those countries hopes Bush loses in November.
The Arab nations are Muslims, enough said.
As far as the rest of the world, most ain't paying attention except Israel who is surely glad someone else is fighting the Arabs besides them for a change.

[James 3528]

The majority of the people didn't vote.

The ones that voted for Gore just goes to show you how many idiots we have in this country

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by spotts

Originally posted by Diceman
It's ironic how the mid-east plan is all about stabilizing it so they can join in the rest of the free world and become allies while in doing so we PO'ed our real, long time allies.


Like who? France and Germany? Some allies.
Virtually every country in Europe as well as Canada and Mexico. Even conservative leaders in those countries hopes Bush loses in November.
[/B]

Prove it and there are no conservative leaders in the coutries you named.


Mexico? Bahahah

[Green Mountain]

It is great to be an independent. This way I can think with my own head.

I voted for Albert Gore in the last election. This election if held tomorrow I will vote for GW Bush. If he gets Bin Laden I will diffinately vote for GW.

I will see F 9/11. Fat Mike has already said that the movie was his one man's opinion. I'm not afraid to listen to someone elses opinion.

[marauderx]

Originally posted by infwsdm
moore is anti-American. There is no two ways about it.

Whenever an American goes to another country to tell the people of that country that Americans are the dumbest people in the world......Need I say more??


Why did you think he made the movie? He is looking to help it. The lefties finally showed they can do propaganda too, and too bad it makes you scared that others don't think exactly like you do. I got a problem with that, because it sounds like Nazi Germany, and if you don't like free speach go live somewhere else.

It opened in 868 theaters, so it make about $25000 a theater, while White Chicks, made about 7000 in each of the 2726 theaters it opened in.

Boxoffice numbers...

1. “Fahrenheit 9/11,” $21.8 million
2. “White Chicks,” $19.6 million
3. “Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story,” $18.5 million
4. “The Terminal,” $13.9 million
5. “The Notebook,” $13 million
6. “Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban,” $11.4 million
7. “Shrek 2,” $10.5 million
8. “Garfield: The Movie,” $7 million
9. “Two Brothers,” $6.2 million
10. “The Stepford Wives,” $5.2 million


Get out of the rut and think about some things before you go vote.

[marauderx]

Originally posted by lmtd
Uhm, are you missing the point Dice? That is his goal, make money off a tragic event, nothing more nothing less. That is why he is a big old turd.


What is Bush doing with 911? And Ronald Reagan's death? Did you buy the Ronald Reagan DVD yet? I'm surprised there wasn't a BUSH'04 bumper sticker on the hearse.

[James 3528]

It would have been a nice touch.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by marauderx

Originally posted by infwsdm
moore is anti-American. There is no two ways about it.

Whenever an American goes to another country to tell the people of that country that Americans are the dumbest people in the world......Need I say more??


Why did you think he made the movie? He is looking to help it. The lefties finally showed they can do propaganda too, and too bad it makes you scared that others don't think exactly like you do. I got a problem with that, because it sounds like Nazi Germany, and if you don't like free speach go live somewhere else.

It opened in 868 theaters, so it make about $25000 a theater, while White Chicks, made about 7000 in each of the 2726 theaters it opened in.

Boxoffice numbers...

1. “Fahrenheit 9/11,” $21.8 million
2. “White Chicks,” $19.6 million
3. “Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story,” $18.5 million
4. “The Terminal,” $13.9 million
5. “The Notebook,” $13 million
6. “Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban,” $11.4 million
7. “Shrek 2,” $10.5 million
8. “Garfield: The Movie,” $7 million
9. “Two Brothers,” $6.2 million
10. “The Stepford Wives,” $5.2 million


Get out of the rut and think about some things before you go vote.

LOL

The majority of people just don't go to the movies anymore. About 0.82 percent of the population has seen it and that does not mean that 0.82 percent agreed with it. BUT as gullible and stupid as democrats are I can see why democrats think it is a valuable tool.

They don't have black church burning to use this time which was another lie and scaring old people is not working any more.

[Diceman]

It only opened in a relatively small number of theaters as most documentaries do.
True, most of Americas would go see lame, rehashed movie plots and sequels to movies that weren't that good in the first place.

[Diceman]

Iraq.............what mess.......
We "transferred" power to them, as if.
Now the guy we are working with over there, who was a big Baith party leader under Saddam many years ago, is a hardliner who wants to tell our troops what to do, that's nice. His first idea, send our boys into Falluja. Not Iraqi troops, our troops. I can't beleive our fine young Americans are dying daily over there.
Bush should be impeached for that.
Like Nam, in the end it will all be a big waste.
What a mess..........

[rob10]

We kill and mutilate their children, burn their women to ashes, and slaughter their animals, will they know that they are defeated. NUKE the f@#$k out of the middle east and give Israel a break. They deserve it!!!

[tinner73]

how can anyone form an opinion on a movie that they haven't viewed????

[rob10]

Originally posted by tinner73
how can anyone form an opinion on a movie that they haven't viewed???? michael moore the scum of the earth

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by marauderx

Originally posted by infwsdm
moore is anti-American. There is no two ways about it.

Whenever an American goes to another country to tell the people of that country that Americans are the dumbest people in the world......Need I say more??


Why did you think he made the movie? He is looking to help it. The lefties finally showed they can do propaganda too, and too bad it makes you scared that others don't think exactly like you do. I got a problem with that, because it sounds like Nazi Germany, and if you don't like free speach go live somewhere else.

It opened in 868 theaters, so it make about $25000 a theater, while White Chicks, made about 7000 in each of the 2726 theaters it opened in.

Boxoffice numbers...

1. “Fahrenheit 9/11,” $21.8 million
2. “White Chicks,” $19.6 million
3. “Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story,” $18.5 million
4. “The Terminal,” $13.9 million
5. “The Notebook,” $13 million
6. “Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban,” $11.4 million
7. “Shrek 2,” $10.5 million
8. “Garfield: The Movie,” $7 million
9. “Two Brothers,” $6.2 million
10. “The Stepford Wives,” $5.2 million


Get out of the rut and think about some things before you go vote.

listen Richard, do you even know what the F@#$ you are talking about??

I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!

He should have said "some Americans are the dumbest in the world" Then your life would be justified.


Bwahahahaha.

[infwsdm]

AND The reason this movie was made was to try to get Bush out of office. No other reason.

[arc8]

AND The reason this movie was made was to try to get Bush out of office. No other reason.

Don't forget, to make money also. I know alot of business people that say that one of the reason for being in business is to make money.
IS it bad to make alot of money? I wonder what M.Moore thinks about businesses making big money. Does he pay his employees way above mininum wage? I wonder. Does he give away over half his income to charity or maybe the government?

[Diceman]

Originally posted by infwsdm



I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!



[/B]
Being anti-Bush does not make one anti-American.
If that were true over 1/2 half the country is also.
Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by infwsdm



I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!




Being anti-Bush does not make one anti-American.
If that were true over 1/2 half the country is also.
Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing. [/B]

He said Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. To me that spells anti-american.

[Diceman]

Most of my customers are:)
And Beenie, yeah we would all like to get Osama and maybe we would have had we gone after him like we did Sadaam.
If I remeber there was no big to-do about us going into afghanny after 9-11, we were mad and wanted to get them bastards, I was all for it. But in time it changed and our tiny force in afghanny was not able to be get osama or really do much of anything. Why not go after him with the 100,000 troops and search out Syria, Jordan and whoever??
Going after Iraq in response to 9-11 would have been like us invading China after Pearl Harbor. Hey, they were orientals who had bad human rights policy too.
What the hell.

[arc8]

The majority of the population voted for Gore, based on what GW has done politically, internationally and economically it's hard to imagine him getting enough votes to continue his disasterous administration. But actullly we should vote for GW, let him clean up this mess he created.
Why should anyone else have to?

Sounds good, let's do it.
Start telling your friends, vote for Bush. Let him finish the job. BTW, it does take awhile, it can't be done in a year. No patience.

Virtually every country in Europe as well as Canada and Mexico. Even conservative leaders in those countries hopes Bush loses in November.

"Conservatives", hahahahaha, you make laugh. I never new that.

I got a problem with that, because it sounds like Nazi Germany, and if you don't like free speach go live somewhere else.

No Ten Commandments in public places or government places. uhm. I wonder sometimes who are the nazi's. Freedom of religion, it's a wrong to imposed your views on the population. Ask the ACLU.

What a mess..........

I haven't really heard anyone else with a brilliant plan.

Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing.

So Moore is biased! Very neat propaganda. So to your question. So what's wrong with making money if it's legit.

But in time it changed and our tiny force in afghanny was not able to be get osama or really do much of anything. Why not go after him with the 100,000 troops and search out Syria, Jordan and whoever??

Yes time has change, and so has Americans. They are so easily fickled, one day go get them; the next day, my son is dead. What do you think happens in combat for heaven's sake. It's not easy being the President or a conservative, people disdain you.

[motorboy1]

Originally posted by infwsdm

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by infwsdm



I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!




Being anti-Bush does not make one anti-American.
If that were true over 1/2 half the country is also.
Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing.

He said Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. To me that spells anti-american. [/B]

When he was speaking of Americans being the dumbest people on the planet, he was referring to you and the rest of the neoconservative retards!

[rob10]

Did your mommy(wife) let you out to play. Be careful!! You'll soon be crying in her dress tails again!!

[i_got_ideas]

A couple of people went to it last night, said it was great. There were also a bunch of state level political figures there too, including our republican state represenative, congressman, or whatever he is, Jim Leach. I wonder what he thought? :D

[bootlen]

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by infwsdm



I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!




Being anti-Bush does not make one anti-American.
If that were true over 1/2 half the country is also.
Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing. [/B]

================================================== ==========

Michael Moore isn't anti-American because he hates W, or because he made lies into a movie, or because he talks lies. He hates W, made lies into a movie, and talks lies because he is anti-American. You dem/libs are always mixing up cause and effect.

[tinner73]

this is veering, but....did anyone see his other movies???? if so what did yiu think about Roger & me or Bowling for Columbine???? I saw Roger & Me i thought it was pretty good.

[Diceman]

I saw all his movies, all very good and make you think.
If you are into actually thinking I mean:)
My plan for Iraq, no matter who wins the election they can use it. Give them 3, or 6 months tops, to get their **** together over there, set a date when out troops are leaving and stick to it. We did enough for em already.

[remember]

I haven't even seen this movie or know what moore's assertions are;but I'll say this,"If any slanderous thing said or intimated in this film about this administration is wholly false ,HE(moore),the producers,distributors and anyone else nearby would be getting SUED."

the fact that the content was cleared by the industry lawyers says the charges are broad enough to hold water.And resist any legal actions sent their way.


As far as this administration being corrupt,inept,arrogant,decietful,morally bankrupt,and a stain on the good people of this country......


WELL,SH*T THAT'S A NO BRAINER



IRan-contra scandal


drug-running,arms trafficing,deals with iranian terrorists,funding central american death-squads,mining the nicaraguan harbors



savings and loan scandal
trade-offs/deals pillaging the american banking system,to the point of needing TAXPAYER BAILOUT ,to the tune of 500 BILLION dollars.
with italian mob figures,mid-eastern /iranian/saudi terrorists...same crew of misfits,ghorbannifar
bin-ladens/jim bath connection with george bush jr. and sr.
BCCI

THe Mafia,CIA and GEorge bush by Pete Brewton

skulls and bones

prescott bush 1917
george h w bush 1948
george w bush 1968
john kerry 1966


conspiracy my ass

[remember]

bowling for colombine was a good movie.

I saw it as a look into the state of fear that is perpetuated by that "invisible hand" ,

and I see that it is guiding this country towards socialism.

by defining the parameters of the percieved "playing field"
"pressure from above,and pressure from below"
"playing both ends against the middle"

propaganda and the formation of mens(and womans) attitudes

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
I haven't even seen this movie or know what moore's assertions are;but I'll say this,"If any slanderous thing said or intimated in this film about this administration is wholly false ,HE(moore),the producers,distributors and anyone else nearby would be getting SUED."

the fact that the content was cleared by the industry lawyers says the charges are broad enough to hold water.And resist any legal actions sent their way.


As far as this administration being corrupt,inept,arrogant,decietful,morally bankrupt,and a stain on the good people of this country......


WELL,SH*T THAT'S A NO BRAINER





IRan-contra scandal


drug-running,arms trafficing,deals with iranian terrorists,funding central american death-squads,mining the nicaraguan harbors



savings and loan scandal
trade-offs/deals pillaging the american banking system,to the point of needing TAXPAYER BAILOUT ,to the tune of 500 BILLION dollars.
with italian mob figures,mid-eastern /iranian/saudi terrorists...same crew of misfits,ghorbannifar
bin-ladens/jim bath connection with george bush jr. and sr.
BCCI

THe Mafia,CIA and GEorge bush by Pete Brewton

skulls and bones

prescott bush 1917
george h w bush 1948
george w bush 1968
john kerry 1966


conspiracy my ass

You are full of $hit as usual F. Flea Bailey. If slander in this arena generated a law suit, Ted Kennedy would be the most sued person in Washington. Back under your foil hat.

[remember]

don't fool yourself james.


when idiots like rush limbaugh,spew their distorted facts and outright lies all day on the radio or in interviews,that is their opinion.

they can say whatever they want to.,but publishing is different.

you can't re-define printed words. the lawyers on that court are very careful as to the risk they will expose themselves and /or their clients to.


all you have to do is phrase the words as if there is an option of ambiguity.

notice political books always stress lack of personal responsibility.like republican figures writing biographies.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by motorboy1

Originally posted by infwsdm

Originally posted by Diceman

Originally posted by infwsdm



I don't give two ****s about his movie or why he made it. I said he is anti-american. Which he is. Read my post again!!




Being anti-Bush does not make one anti-American.
If that were true over 1/2 half the country is also.
Moore did no worse than Limbaugh and Co. who made lots more dough than Moore with his biased radio show.
Same thing.

He said Americans are the dumbest people on the planet. To me that spells anti-american.

When he was speaking of Americans being the dumbest people on the planet, he was referring to you and the rest of the neoconservative retards! [/B]

I'll bet nobody EVER accused you of being a genius!!

[rob10]

Originally posted by remember
bowling for colombine was a good movie.
This clip was a very low point in American film making. moore always seeks to prop his ego with tragedies!! He is nothing but twisted!!

[bobby7388]

Michael Moore goes where ever the wind blows him.

Back in "95" his movie "Canadian Bacon" was released, if anyone remembers it the plot involved a president who was down in the polls due to factory closings among other issues.
These factories where military production and alot of workers were put out on the street. This was all due to the end of the Cold War.
The point here is that the democrats are known for a smaller military policy, hence no need for military related products, therefore factories were closing.

You would assume that at that time Michael Moore was degrading the democrates for their, smaller, leaner, don't need it policies relating to military expenditures.

Michael Moore will hate anybody if it will let him get heard.


Also at a recent interview he remarked that his newest work was an op-ed, then in the same interview stated it was fact, can't be both.

[motorboy1]

Originally posted by lmtd
Watched half the movie, intro blew credibility off the bat!

GWB won the election, get over it. He won it through 3 recounts. The manual recounts where "chad" got involved and "dimppling" of voter cards being interpreted as "voter intent" resulted in a LOT of propaganda about Gore actually winning Florida which he did NOT do.

Forget it, it was over a long time ago.

Now watching the rest of it, there is certianly some interesting things in it. Things I was not aware of, unfortunatly because he tends to lie a bit, I am hard pressed to belive a lot of it.

I really find the presentation remains self serving to mikey moore and find his attempts at gaining from the events of 9-11 still quite disgusting.

I'll grab the other half of it and make sure the evaluation is over the whole boat.

The shrub was never elected - he was "appointed". Bush is not running for reelection. In order to be reelected, you must first be elected.

Bush and Co. What a mess!

[bootlen]

Originally posted by motorboy1

Originally posted by lmtd
Watched half the movie, intro blew credibility off the bat!

GWB won the election, get over it. He won it through 3 recounts. The manual recounts where "chad" got involved and "dimppling" of voter cards being interpreted as "voter intent" resulted in a LOT of propaganda about Gore actually winning Florida which he did NOT do.

Forget it, it was over a long time ago.

Now watching the rest of it, there is certianly some interesting things in it. Things I was not aware of, unfortunatly because he tends to lie a bit, I am hard pressed to belive a lot of it.

I really find the presentation remains self serving to mikey moore and find his attempts at gaining from the events of 9-11 still quite disgusting.

I'll grab the other half of it and make sure the evaluation is over the whole boat.

The shrub was never elected - he was "appointed". Bush is not running for reelection. In order to be reelected, you must first be elected.

Bush and Co. What a mess!

================================================== ==========

Yep, W was appointed by the people of the U.S. to be President. ALL the counts have proven that. AlGore LOST...W WON. Get over it. Or better yet, don't get over it. Let it be your mantra..."Gore won. He was cheated out of the White House." That should keep you busy for eternity because it's all in concrete now. W's in the House.

[Diceman]

Originally posted by bootlen
it's all in concrete now. W's in the House.
[/B]
Not for long he ain't.......

[Wolfetone]

Calling people names is counterproductive and childish.

I don't paticularly like Michael Moore but his films can be entertaining and sometimes he brings up some valid ideas and makes you think. However in F9/11 he is incredibly deceitful and brings up very few valid points.

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11 http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm



Three days after September 11, Moore demanded that no military action be taken against Afghanistan:

"Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request....

But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians.

Michael Moore, "War on Whom?" AlterNet, Sept. 14, 2001.



The next day he wrote:

Trust me, they are talking politics night and day, and those discussions involve sending our kids off to fight some invisible enemy and to indiscriminately bomb Afghans or whoever they think will make us Americans feel good.

...I fear we will soon be in a war that will do NOTHING to protect us from the next terrorist attack.

"Mike's Message," Sept. 15, 2001. Although Moore vehemently opposed the Afghanistan War, Fahrenheit criticizes Bush for not putting more troops into Afghanistan sooner.

[remember]

yeah,he might be making arguements that seem to overlap and contradict each other;but they both happen to have been true in respect to each individual context.

usually,any one person doesn't get to decide the "context" of the issues being discussed.


first;
he was right,bombing afghanistan didn't destroy al-queda.


it didn't help get osama...so far.


and the taliban was a puppet gov't of pakistan; and being that pakistan(supplier to iran,north korea,and libya of nuclear "device" and "material production" programs and hardware)is still there,the same power system and tribal structures exist.


second;

if you are arguing for a buildup in the war on terror,why not seriously adress the job at hand and divert your resources to the matter at hand(capture of osama,and neutralizing al-queada);instead of opening a can of worms in a 9-11 un-related country like Iraq.

stirring up trouble, and validating the radical fundementalist propaganda of osama and the like who have been spinning the story that someday the USA will invade the holy land for colonization and OIL.

both arguements against the bush administration agenda are valid,even with niether being the answer to the question,"if it was up to you,what would you do?"

[remember]

by the way ,that list is less factual than moore's assertions and more slanted and out of context.

jim bath was the representative for salem bin-laden.
you can read all about him and the bin-laden connection in a book named,
"The mafia,CIA,and George Bush"by Pete Brewton.
he was the reporter the broke the savings and loan scandal,and reported it to the congress.
that is george sr. and it was published in the early 90's,so this current debate doesn't "color"it at all.

the bin-ladens and the bushes have been in buisness many way for decades.

the private equity firm,carlyle group,does buisness with many on both sides of the isle

the real story is that both parties are corrupt and lying sons of *****es.

porter goss is another one of those fraternity brothers"Skull and bones";like :
george HW Bush
george W BUSH
john f kerry
porter goss

and so many others.


the Council on foreign relations
colon powell
condeleeza rice
dick cheney
paul wolfowitz
george tenet
donald rumsfeld
john negroponte
robert zoellick
elaine chao
lewis "scooter" libby
richard perle
douglas feith
richard clark
john lehman
lee hamilton


and so many others....

I could go on ,but what's the point.

[Green Mountain]

Okay, I just got back from seeing it. Moore said on National TV that this movie was just "his opinion".

He didn't present anything that shocked me out of my socks.

War is not pretty. If you think those soldiers are *****ing over there in Bagdad you should of heard us *****ing in Saigon.

Mothers cry as the result of every war.

He kind of fluffed over the fact that American soil had been attacked.

My analisis of the movie is. If someone has a camera on your crouch 24 hours a day they are going to catch you scratching your nuts. If they edit all that tape down they can make a movie of you masturbating in public.

[ozone drone]

My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by ozone drone
My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.

Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

Makes sense eh?


Though so.

[remember]

the planeload of saudi nationals and bin-laden relatives wasn't just a bunch of people that are being racially profiled.

one point;

goat herders are being scooped off hillsides in afghanistan and being held like they might "know "
something.which is highly unlikely.

so why let go family members and other ,obviously,important and connected saudi's.

all of whom are much more likely to know things about osama and his connections.


if this was a criminal case ,the chances of joe blow's family not being questioned,is nill.


another example of the officals not doing their job.


and the number I heard was @ 142 people,whereas in response to the accusations the officials pass the buck by saying they did question 50 ,briefly.

wwhich is so vague to be absolutely meaningless.

maybe the 50 they questioned weren't even of the 142 that were flown out.or'

maybe the 50 questioned were asked their names?

or maybe they were asked if they wanted the fish or the chicken, on their flight out of the country.

to take people literally ,statements can mean anything and still be true.




so to compare the likelihood,of some idiot in the desert,who is probably ignorant of anything,internationally,to family members who,even though it is a huge family,still have intimate knowledge about habits and resources and retreats.and certainly associates and friends.

clear case of throwing the ball away,not just dropping it.

I still haven't seen the movie,so I'm not vouching for it

[Edited by remember on 07-12-2004 at 07:55 PM]

[James 3528]

Originally posted by remember
the planeload of saudi nationals and bin-laden relatives wasn't just a bunch of people that are being racially profiled.

one point;

goat herders are being scooped off hillsides in afghanistan and being held like they might "know "
something.which is highly unlikely.

so why let go family members and other ,obviously,important and connected saudi's.

all of whom are much more likely to know things about osama and his connections.


if this was a criminal case ,the chances of joe blow's family not being questioned,is nill.


another example of the officals not doing their job.


and the number I heard was @ 142 people,whereas in response to the accusations the officials pass the buck by saying they did question 50 ,briefly.

wwhich is so vague to be absolutely meaningless.

maybe the 50 they questioned weren't even of the 142 that were flown out.or'

maybe the 50 questioned were asked their names?

or maybe they were asked if they wanted the fish or the chicken, on their flight out of the country.

to take people literally ,statements can mean anything and still be true.




so to compare the likelihood,of some idiot in the desert,who is probably ignorant of anything,internationally,to family members who,even though it is a huge family,still have intimate knowledge about habits and resources and retreats.and certainly associates and friends.

clear case of throwing the ball away,not just dropping it.

I still haven't seen the movie,so I'm not vouching for it

[Edited by remember on 07-12-2004 at 07:55 PM]

Besides the wide seeping generalizations you just made, you would be the first to scream as you always do when you think your right's have been or are about to be infringed upon. If your nephew did something in the Middle East and they detained (which in legal term is a arrest) or did not protect your family not to mention the hundred thousand other Americans that are there.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by ozone drone
My sister was stuck in Montreal for a week when her plane was diverted there on 9-11. It's weird to find out planeloads of Saudi's were granted permission to leave the country. Don't you think Moore asked a good question of Why.

================================================== ==========

Strangely enough, a guy named Clark gave the clearance for them to leave the country. Clark...hmmm. That rings a bell for some reason.

[ozone drone]

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

Makes sense eh?


Though so. [/B][/QUOTE]

I saw the movie....don't remember him making a big deal about Iraqi detainees...not saying he didn't mention them...just didn't leave much of an impression on me. The weeping mothers and all that ... it's war and mothers lose sons ...that's a mother's lot in any war.

What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****.

[remember]

not at all,I'v been in some backward foreign countries and when you are there you keep your ass to yourself because you know you don't want to have anything to do with the officials.

when you're on your own in some foreign country you either keep your nose clean or expect to keep yourself out of harms way.

I don't consider I have any rights in many places,and when you don't have any back-up,you had better not get in trouble.

you make /accept your own fortune.


this country treats foreigners better than many,
that is what should always be true.

and I wouldn't expect preferential treatment if there was trouble in the town I live.

so don't even go there,like someone is going to cry for someone's rights.

this is discussion of topics that are bigger than,how i'm doing.now.

[bobby7388]

Originally posted by marauderx

Originally posted by lmtd
Uhm, are you missing the point Dice? That is his goal, make money off a tragic event, nothing more nothing less. That is why he is a big old turd.


What is Bush doing with 911? And Ronald Reagan's death? Did you buy the Ronald Reagan DVD yet? I'm surprised there wasn't a BUSH'04 bumper sticker on the hearse.



Does Bush have the epilogue in the DVD release?
How is Bush trying to benefit from Reagans death, I hear that hype coming from the left of course.

Yes Bush made a few commercials with scenes from the 9-11, and some found it to be offensive. It showed a commander-in-chief with the workers at ground zero, showing he was still in charge of a country attacked.
So what!!
But Micheal Moore can show excerpts from the tragedy and be held as a liberal hero, non-sense. The guy is an idiot! plain and simple.


[Edited by bobby7388 on 07-12-2004 at 11:17 PM]

[James 3528]

Originally posted by ozone drone


Yeah, and then you could ask why he is so concerned about captured combatants in a Iraq prison if he is so concerned about detaining people just because of their race or national origin.

Makes sense eh?


Though so. [/B][/QUOTE]

I saw the movie....don't remember him making a big deal about Iraqi detainees...not saying he didn't mention them...just didn't leave much of an impression on me. The weeping mothers and all that ... it's war and mothers lose sons ...that's a mother's lot in any war.

What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****. [/B][/QUOTE]


Nah, it's all total bull ****.

http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/moore.htm

[johnl45]

The right-wingers are in a stew because Moore exposes the crook Bush and his cronies. Is Bush your friend? I’ll bet not, is he the Saudi’s friend? You can bet on it he’s the best they ever had.

[James 3528]

I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.

[arc8]

Is Bush your friend? I’ll bet not, is he the Saudi’s friend? You can bet on it he’s the best they ever had.

Obviously not rich and powerful enough to buy countries off.

[Wolfetone]

Originally posted by ozone drone



What did get my attention was the Saudi stuff. He's interviewing a guy across the street from the Saudi embassy and before long 3 cop looking cars pull up with uniformed secret service people asking what's up. Moore tells them he's making a documentary that mentions the Saudis. They say okay and start to leave and Moore asks the guy ..Didn't know the secret service protected foreign embassies? The guy shrugs.

I know Moore has an agenda...his views are very slanted against Pres Bush. What is blatant propaganda I can see it for what it is. But some points and questions are worth looking at and arriving at your own conclusion, instead of just saying that it's all total bull****. [/B][/QUOTE]

Protecting foriegn embassies is one of the uniformed Secret Services primary goals. How the hell Moore didn't know that, or why the hell he didn't find out is beyond me.....not really.

http://www.secretservice.gov/ud.shtml

<i>In 1970, Public Law 91-217 expanded the role of the White House Police, newly named the Executive Protective Service, to include protection of diplomatic missions in the Washington, D.C.,area. Congress later added the protection of the Vice President's immediate family to the Executive Protective Service's growing responsibilities in 1974.

After several name revisions, the force officially adopted its current name, the United States Secret Service Uniformed Division in 1977. While protection of the White House Complex remains its primary mission, the Uniformed Division's responsibilities have expanded greatly over the years.

They now protect the following:

the White House Complex, the Main Treasury Building and Annex, and other Presidential offices;
the President and members of the immediate family;
the temporary official residence of the Vice President in the District of Columbia;
the Vice President and members of the immediate family; <b>and
foreign diplomatic missions in the Washington, D.C.</b>, metropolitan area and throughout the United States, and its territories and possessions, as prescribed by statute. </i>

So more gets on insinuates some big ass conspriacy about people who are doing there ****ing jobs because he knows that Americans are stupid, after all he said so himself.

As for some of the other Saudi stuff, only three Saudi's were allowed to fly on September 13th and they flew from Florida to Tennessee and the 124 who flew out of the country didn't depart until September 20th, while Moore insinuates that they flew out of the country before regular Americans were allowed to fly.

[ozone drone]

Originally posted by Wolfetone
[QUOTE]

So more gets on insinuates some big ass conspriacy about people who are doing there ****ing jobs because he knows that Americans are stupid, after all he said so himself.

As for some of the other Saudi stuff, only three Saudi's were allowed to fly on September 13th and they flew from Florida to Tennessee and the 124 who flew out of the country didn't depart until September 20th, while Moore insinuates that they flew out of the country before regular Americans were allowed to fly.


Thanks Wolftone, stupid and ignorant are not the same thing.
stupid means an inability to learn, ignorant is not knowing the facts. You presented facts ...I learned. I can't surf the net while at work (I get by with HVAC Talk because it relates to my job) but that's the good thing about the posting here... Moore did make it look suspicious about the secret service...and you removed the suspicion....Moore did imply or outright said that the Saudis left the country on the 13th. The more you guys poke holes in the movie, the more you shed light on Moore's lack of credibility. Which is much better than just trashing the guy with blanket statements that look like just being biased. A point by point refutation of the movie is better.

[Edited by ozone drone on 07-13-2004 at 04:31 PM]

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by James 3528
I'm glad to see you're not letting your education get in the way of your ignorance.

:DLOL

[Wolfetone]

Originally posted by ozone drone
Thanks Wolftone, stupid and ignorant are not the same thing. stupid means an inability to learn, ignorant is not knowing the facts.

I wasn't suggesting that you were stupid, I was insinuating that Michael Moore thinks your stupid. Ignorant is certainly not a bad word, or it shouldn't be. I am ignorant of numerous things, some of which I should be ashamed of.

Michael Moore has said;

DO YOU FEEL like you live in a nation of idiots?

I used to console myself about the state of stupidity in this country by repeating this to myself: Even if there are two hundred million stone-cold idiots in this country, that leaves at least eighty million who will get what I'm saying.

[remember]

I haven't seen micheal moore's new film yet,so I can't really say anything about that.


but,
my guess is that it is as accurate and unbiased as what FOX news network puts out.they all have entertainment value .


both entities are driven by the same things; money and purpose.(fox news maybe more money than purpose)

and both have broken into the mass psyche,whether anybody agrees with them or not.

the simple fact ,people thinking in their frame of mind(even to refute them),have been imprinted with that perspective.for or against.


so even if the movie turns out to be a movie ,like all others.
from a biased perspective(even ,especially documentaries)


Bush and this administration are: crooks,inept,dangerously close to being treasonous,and at least open to serious questions of conflict of intrest.and lacking the ability to know what is moral and what is not.

and for this team of glorified captains of industry,the world is becoming a more gloomy place.

you can't go into the political isles of a bookstore anymore without seeing 25-50 books about how this administration has broken: oaths,treaties and the public trust and possibly laws.high crimes and misdemeaners.


and considering the gift of 9-11,and their immunity from anything that could even be construed as criticism,for the past couple of years.they pissed away the benefit of doubt given by the country and the world.after 9-11.

usually the bush bashing section is tiny.now its half the rack.

and its the books that try to rebut for the sake of reputation(bush's),that are grasping and reeking of rationalization.misunderestimated.what a joke.

the political climate is changing
.



[Edited by remember on 07-13-2004 at 06:40 PM]

[bobby7388]

How has the administration acted treasonous? Look up the definition then we'll have a friendly debate on why that's an incorrect statement.

[remember]

treason
1)the betrayal of trust
2)the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the gov't of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or his family.


first

the betrayal of trust.

someone in this administration(bush,cheney ,rove,?)
broke the law by "outing" a current asset of the CIA.valerie plame,wife of joe wilson.
political payback for ambassador wilso coming out and discrediting the lies told by the bush administration about nigerian yellowcake.
not only did they destroy an asset,they destroyed another asset ,which was the company she worked for,"jennings and brewster."
which had extensive contact in saudi arabia and aramaco(arabian-american oil co,12% of worlds oil supply).saudi arabia(royal family) is major source of terrorist funding,now the cia is blinded on a major front;america is more vulnerable.



the lies this administration used to "create"the sense that the war in Iraq had anything to do with al-queada.
the taking of a country to war on false pretenses,is treason.

a justification of "misconstrued intelligence"is a weak attempt at best to explain why they chose to "believe" those that agreed with them while ignoring the majority of evidence to the contrary.

yellowcake.cheney asks wilson to go check it out.
wilson finds that it has absolutely no basis in fact.
cheney and bush lie (because at that point they knew it was a lie)to the world using what is known to them to be untrue.

at the time these were:
aluminum tubes-weak at best totally false most likely
unmanned aerial drones-flimsy
british dossier"dodgy dossier"-plagerized from sources that also said iraq was no threat.
nuclear arsenal,even though this administration said in the beginning of their term that they knew the iraqi's didn't have the capability.
chemical weapons,this they knew saddam had,they gave them to him
antrax- 1989.so they are the agents of peddling weapons of mass destruction.against geneva conventions.


among others.
this administration has either been lying,or
they have no ability to make sound judgements ,based on the available evidence.

for too many inteligence agency personel were right in their assesments of all these matters(saying charges against saddam had no merit).and time has proven the administration inept at best,or treasonous at worst on the iraq war,drive.

so this is just the beginning.of the case against the bush administration.

but really the war in iraq is not their fault,though they will probably take the blame because it is their doing.


for as early as 1997,foreign affairs,the council on foreign relations periodical,has been gearing up for "instability"in the region.

as early as 1997,they were recomending that people should structure their investments in the region(middle east,SE asia) to end after the turn of the century,due to likelyhood of regional destabilization,that could last for several years,but should lead to a profitable future outlook
in many sectors especially energy.


all the members of the council ought to be charged with treason for being agents of an enemy of the US,foreign and domestic clause in the oath they took.

I have put together a partial list of members i,ll post again,later.

In this administration:

colin powell
dick cheney
condi rice
don rumsfeld
george tenet
paul wolfowitz
lewis"scooter"libby
elaine chao(mitch mcconnels wife)
john negroponte
bill donaldson
robert zoellick
richard perle
stephen friedman
doug feith
richard clark
alan greenspan

and a few in congress;
lee hamilton
john lehman
jay(john d. IV)rockefeller

among others

clinton administration:

bill clinton
al gore(and his father al gore)
madelaine albright
bruce babbit
bill cohen
bill richardson
donna shalala
dick thornburgh
warren christopher
sandy berger
henry cisneros
les aspin
anthony lake
george stephanopolous
nancy soderberg
vernon jordan
strobe talbot
lawrence eagleberger
winston lord

james woolsey
john deutch
alan greenspan

among others


first bush admin.:

george H W Bush
dick cheney
colin powell
brent scowcroft
alexander haig
george shulz

for starters.


reagan admin.

george bush
james baker
john j mccloy
donald regan
alexander haig
george shulz
john c whitehead
caspar weinberger
frank c carlucci
winston lord
robert mc farlane
malcolm baldridge
william brock
bill casey
alan greenspan


among others.


carter admin.

jimmy carter
walter mondale (GERALDINE FERRARO IS TOO)
zbignew bryzinski
cyrus vance
harold brown
warren cristopher
richard cooper
richard holbrook
anthony m soloman
john sawhill
hedley donovan
henry owen
w. micheal blumenthal
joseph caliphano
paul warnke

richard gardner
edwin o reishower
anthony lake
robert bowie
milton katz
abram chayes
george ball

paul volker



ford admin.


gerald ford
nelson rockefeller
many same as nixon admin.


nixon admin.


richard nixon
gerald ford
henry kissinger
peter g peterson
elliot richardson
james lynn
george ball
paul mccracken
charles yost
harlan cleveland
jacob beam
melvin laird
george shulz
david kennedy
gerard smith

arthur burns

among others.

lyndon baines johnson admin.

walt rostow
robert mcnamara
william bundy(prematurely wrote "tonkin resolution" before it happened.
mcgeorge bundy


dean aecheson (father in law to william bundy)
john j mccloy
robert lovett
averil harriman
george ball
henry cabot lodge
gen. maxwell taylor
ellsworth bunker

and more,etc.


kennedy admin.

same as johnson.
john f kennedy
douglas dillon(dillon and read bank)federal reserve member
john mcone
roswell gilpatric
paul nitze
henry fowler
george ball
averill harriman
arthur schlesinger
jerome weisner
angier duke
john mccloy
dean rusk
robert lovett


eisenhower admin.

dwight eisenhower
richard nixon
douglas dillon
nelson rockefeller
gordon gray
lewis strauss
robert anderson
allen dulles
christian herter
john foster dulles


truman admin.

dean aechenson
robert lovet
averil harriman
john mccloy
george kennan
charles bohlen
gen. george c marshall
gen. matthew ridgeway
james forrestal(who bought a paper and was about to expose establishment when he committed suicide)


roosevelt


a few were:

henry morganthau
edward stettinus
sumner welles
henry stimson
george messer smith
harry hopkins
alger hiss
norman h davis
james warburg

opponent 1940 election-wendell wilkie





federal reserve


alan greenspan
paul volker
arthur burns
william mcchesney-martin

and numerous others


cia


directors

george tenet
james woolsey
bill casey
john mcone
robert gates
bobby ray inman
stansfield turner
william webster
george bush
richard helms
john deutch

and then some...


and that are some from the executive branch.


a few from the congress are:

henry hyde
warren rudman
terry sanford
pat moynihan
bob graham
joe lieberman
john mccain
bill bradley
john kerry(skull and bones)
william taft
adalai stevenson III
andrew young
christopher dodd
dick gephardt
robert matsui





supreme court:

ruth bader ginsberg
stephen breyer
felix frankfurter
william rehnquist


misc politicians


mario cuomo
wesley clark
george s mcgovern
charles robb
peter w rodman
porter goss(skull and bones)
geraldine ferraro




for now,gotta go I'll add more later,in gov't and haven't even gotten to the private sector,foundations, academia,
blue chip boards and CEO's.





[Edited by remember on 07-15-2004 at 08:16 PM]

[rob10]

You shows signs of compulsive paranoia.

[infwsdm]

Originally posted by rob10
You shows signs of compulsive paranoia.

I think it's the crack!

;)

[bobby7388]

Your taking the definition out of context and basicly re-defining it to fit into your arguement to try and back it up.

1)Betrayal of trust refers to ie: selling of secrets, telling secrets. If your wife were to lie to you, you wouldn't accuse her of treason, would you? So how could you label others as such, soley on a speculation of lying?
2)Speaks for it-self, I don't see how Bush has attempted to overthrow himself, or others in his administration.

[remember]

well,my wife isn't running the country.
that is out of context,and trying to fit your arguement.

a public official,takes an oath to serve and protect.
so when their lies do harm to that country,I consider that treason.

not that I'm expecting bush to be charged with that.
he might have committed impeachable offenses,which if you go to henry waxman's website,you can see that they have already drawn the articles of impeachment up for bush,cheney,rice for specific lies,acts.

but this is a republican congress,so there isn't a chance that they would ever pass those articles and impeach them.

even though bill clinton did nothing even remotely this serious to get himself impeached.
but that was a republican congress,on a witchhunt,nothing more.


and there is a vagueness about everything,
causistry and equivocation,
the jesuits have opened the way for the world to be "spun"
and machiavelli plays on and on."if a leader did not have an enemy he would need to create one"

so bush is guilty of the first definition.
those two examples were just what was in the dictionary.

the group that i'm starting to list is guilty of the second.
and the erosion of our constitution is coming from them.

and they have been at it for a very long time.
that is why I say ,

even though "CAPPS II",just got canned like the "TIPS" plan did.,because they were unconstitutional,

that doesn't mean that the rabblerousers can let down their gaurd,because they have been tried before and they will be tried again.

and part of the gripe I have is even if the "members of the board" allow their current "ceo"(bush and co.) to be ousted in a wave of public indignation(we'll see in november);
their next "ceo"(kerry and co)will be right in there.

and at this point the election is already decided.

the next administration will have a skull and bones member as president and the cabinet will be populated by council on foreign relation types.

and I'll get into this later;
the council is just a front group.It was set up that way.

they have suffered two defeats in history and restructured accordingly.
they are now getting to be what they say they are"a nonpartisan think tank."

they started as only bankers and big buisness heads and political leaders.

got in trouble with congress,and have reinvented themselves to fit what is needed in the current climate ,whatever that may be.

so now you might even see them announce themselves on tv as experts in every field.as a member of the council.
normally ,the people speaking are designated whatever other titles they have;sec.of state,ambassadors,cia directors,authors,reps from brookings/american enterprise inst.,etc.

they are preparing a legitimate place in public discussion.

and i'm not into "conspiracy"either.I see a culture.

the proper study would be english political history.

because the council is the foreign relations of england ,not the US.
that is who created it and the tradition they uphold.

go back to federalists ,alexander hamilton,aligning with england.

"atlantic union committee"

the union of britian and US.

you could understand our alliance a little better ,especially considering england isn't like us or the ideals put forth in the amendments(first 10)of our constitution.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by remember
well,my wife isn't running the country.
that is out of context,and trying to fit your arguement.

a public official,takes an oath to serve and protect.
so when their lies do harm to that country,I consider that treason.

not that I'm expecting bush to be charged with that.
he might have committed impeachable offenses,which if you go to henry waxman's website,you can see that they have already drawn the articles of impeachment up for bush,cheney,rice for specific lies,acts.

but this is a republican congress,so there isn't a chance that they would ever pass those articles and impeach them.

even though bill clinton did nothing even remotely this serious to get himself impeached.
but that was a republican congress,on a witchhunt,nothing more.


and there is a vagueness about everything,
causistry and equivocation,
the jesuits have opened the way for the world to be "spun"
and machiavelli plays on and on."if a leader did not have an enemy he would need to create one"

so bush is guilty of the first definition.
those two examples were just what was in the dictionary.

the group that i'm starting to list is guilty of the second.
and the erosion of our constitution is coming from them.

and they have been at it for a very long time.
that is why I say ,

even though "CAPPS II",just got canned like the "TIPS" plan did.,because they were unconstitutional,

that doesn't mean that the rabblerousers can let down their gaurd,because they have been tried before and they will be tried again.

and part of the gripe I have is even if the "members of the board" allow their current "ceo"(bush and co.) to be ousted in a wave of public indignation(we'll see in november);
their next "ceo"(kerry and co)will be right in there.

and at this point the election is already decided.

the next administration will have a skull and bones member as president and the cabinet will be populated by council on foreign relation types.

and I'll get into this later;
the council is just a front group.It was set up that way.

they have suffered two defeats in history and restructured accordingly.
they are now getting to be what they say they are"a nonpartisan think tank."

they started as only bankers and big buisness heads and political leaders.

got in trouble with congress,and have reinvented themselves to fit what is needed in the current climate ,whatever that may be.

so now you might even see them announce themselves on tv as experts in every field.as a member of the council.
normally ,the people speaking are designated whatever other titles they have;sec.of state,ambassadors,cia directors,authors,reps from brookings/american enterprise inst.,etc.

they are preparing a legitimate place in public discussion.

and i'm not into "conspiracy"either.I see a culture.

the proper study would be english political history.

because the council is the foreign relations of england ,not the US.
that is who created it and the tradition they uphold.

go back to federalists ,alexander hamilton,aligning with england.

"atlantic union committee"

the union of britian and US.

you could understand our alliance a little better ,especially considering england isn't like us or the ideals put forth in the amendments(first 10)of our constitution.

================================================== ==========

Right on par. Inaccurate, thus irrelevant

[remember]

some council members in the media buisness,over the years:


walter lippman..syndicated columnist....original member cfr,woodrow wilson's"inquiry";which is what cfr is an offshoot of.*
henry and claire luce owners/publis.(time publising,owns,people,life,fortune,money,and sports illustrated)
cl sulzberger(arthur hayes and arthur ochs sulzberger-owners ny times)
roone arledge..abc.founder news and sports divisions
robert l bartley...wall street journal
fouad ajami..freelance
thornton f bradshaw...nbc
david brinkley..abc
tom brokaw...nbc
hodding carter III..
john chancellor...nbc
mark danner...new yorker
karen deyoung..ny times
hedley donovan...time magazine
leonard downie jr...wash post
daniel ellsberg..pentagon papers
max frankel..ny times
tom friedman...ny times
leslie h gelb..ny times
barton david gellman
david gergen
paul gigot
katherine graham..pub. wash post;eugene meyers daughter
maurice greenberg
james greenfield..ny times
meg greenfield...wash post
henry grunwald..time mag.
jim hoagland...ny times
warren hoge.. ny times
walter issacson... cnn
christopher isham..ny times
wanda jablonski...oil industry ,syndicated
marvin kalb...nbc
paul krugman..ny times
john m lee ..ny times
jim lehrer..pbs
irving levine..nbc
seth lipsky
lester markel..ny times
judith miller..ny times
henry muller..time mag.
william s paley..owner cbs,chairman 70's
maynard parker...newsweek
walter pincus..wash. post
dan rather..cbs
robert rivard...san antonio paper
stephen rosenfeld..wash post
jack rosenthal..ny times
harrison salisbury..ny times
diane sawyer..abc
daniel schoor..pbs ;misc
hedrick smith
richard m smith...newsweek
laurence tisch
garrick utley...nbc
barbara walters...abc
george will...fox
thomas wyman...cbs ,chairman 80's
mortimer zuckerman
david sloan...exec. edit.. 20/20
david sarnoff...owner rca/owner nbc(at the time)
robert sarnoff...davids son
ted koppel...abc
robert mcniel...pbs
eugene meyer owner/publisher wash post(post owned newsweek)
joel dreyfuss
herbert l matthews..ny times

and more....

1987 membership list includes 262 members that were ;journalists,correspondants,and media executives.


and none of them ever did stories on a group that included the most powerful assembly of people in the nation.it is against the by laws.

[Edited by remember on 07-17-2004 at 02:49 PM]

[remember]

these lists are only partial.

an example of a longer list is

members of council on foreign relations nominated and appointed by richard nixon:


adm. george w. anderson
dr. george p. baker
george ball
jacob d. beam
david e. bell
lt.gen. donald v. bennett
c. fred bergsten
robert o. blake
fred j. borch
dr. harold brown
william b. buffum
ellsworth bunker
frederick burkhardt
dr. arthur burns
henry a. byroade
lincoln p. bloomfield
courtney c. brown
david k. e. bruce
harlan cleveland
richard n. cooper
philip k. crowe
gardner cowles
william b. dale
nathaniel davis
c. douglas dillon
seymour m. finger
harvey s. firestone
william c. foster
thomas s. gates
carl j. gilbert
gen. andrew j.goodpaster
kermit gordon
joseph adolf greenwald
gen.alfred m. greunther
john w. gardner
richard gardner
t. kieth glennan
gordon gray
morton halperin
christian a. herter
rev.theodore m. hesburgh
samuel p. huntington
john n. irwin II
j. k. jamieson
sen. jacob javits
joseph e. johnson
howard w. johnson
james r. killian
william r. kintner
henry kissinger
antoine t. knoppers
gen. george a. lincoln
henry cabot lodge
george cabot lodge
henry loomis
douglas mcarthur II
robert mcClintoc
john j. mcCloy
paul w. mcCracken
edward s. mason
charles a. meyer
bradford mills
franklin d. murphy
paul h. nitze
gen.lauris norstad
alfred c. neal
roderic l. o'connor
robert e. osgood
frank pace jr.
richard f. pedersen
john r. petty
christopher h. phillips
alan pifer
sen. claiborne pell
isidor i. rabi
stanley r. resor
elliot l. richardson
john richardson
james roche
david rockefeller
nelson rockefeller
rodman rockefeller
robert v. roosa
kenneth rush
dean rusk
john d. rockefeller III
nathaniel samuels
adolph william schmidt
joseph j. sisco
dr. glenn t. seaborg
gerard smith
henry DeW. smyth
helmut sonnenfeldt
john r. stevenson
frank stanton
robert strausz-hupe'
leroy stinebower
gen. maxwell d. taylor
llewellyn thompson
philip h. trezise
cyrus vance
rawleigh warner jr.
arthur k. watson
thomas watson
john hay whitney
francis o. wilcox
franklin haydn williams
walter wriston
charles yost.



do you know who made the decisions you live with?
how did we get here?
meritocracy or nepotism.maybe a little of both?

[classical]

Remember your name is really Hyde and you are in the cast of that 70's right.

Man you need to get a life spending your whole life contemplating conspiracies is a little weird.

Or maybe your that guy Gene Hackman played in Enemy of the State with Will Smith or is it Mel Gibson. You are reading to many weird books get out enjoy the sun enjoy life have a good meal. Live a little!!!

[bobby7388]

Remember, just because you didn't lock your doors before doesn't mean you don't lock them now.

That is all I have to say about that.
Forrest Gump, 1995

[hvac r us 2]

Originally posted by Diceman
, ask Rash Limberger, who is on his second divorce and almost kicked his nasty drug habit, but his family values are OK I guess.

You got to love old Rush Bo and his devine following.

I have never heard a more pompous hypocrite in my life.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I am doing what I was born to do, host this show...and you are doing what you are supposed to do...listen to me"

I am not sure which annoys me more, Rush or his blind audience.

Funny how if you are a working class Joe with a drug problem you are an addict...if you are a celebrity radio host you have an illness.

[James 3528]

Even on drugs he is right.

[hvac r us 2]

Jim Jones...
David Keresh...
Rush Limbaugh...I think he has some grape Kool Aid he wants you to try! :)

[arc8]

Even on drugs he is right.

Amazingly right!

Jim Jones...
David Keresh...
Rush Limbaugh...I think he has some grape Kool Aid he wants you to try!

Your answering the wrong person. I think you meant to address Remember.

[hvac r us 2]

Originally posted by arc8
Even on drugs he is right.

Amazingly right!

Jim Jones...
David Keresh...
Rush Limbaugh...I think he has some grape Kool Aid he wants you to try!

Your answering the wrong person. I think you meant to address Remember.

No, I was addressing some of the Rush fans...

I find he has a very "cult" like following. He can do no wrong in there eyes. No question he is a great speaker, not full of a lot of facts...but never the less a great speaker.

[classical]

Bill O'Reilly showed michael moore up for the asinine mutt he is.
He showed the moore has no real intellect or knowledge he is just a good propagandist. History has shown us to be a good propagandist does not require intelligence just guile.
Look at the Nazi's Josef Goebbels he had no education and he duped an entire nation.
Even moore's Idol Richard Clark denounced his film. Moore is a guy who did very poorly in school never had any formal education after barely making it out of high school and he is the darling of the radical liberal left.

Rush is no better than moore he is the same person no formal higher education made it through high school he just dresses better and is more articulate. He does employ the same zealous tactics as moore he is generally more factual but not much. Rush is a bombastic dilettante moore is just a bombastic slob.

Those that fall for limbaughs tripe are no better than those that fall for moore’s bilge.

[coolie]

Moore and Limbaugh:
are they both members of the
Middle school Skull and Bones?

[remember]

actually from the middle school point of view.

the sociology perspective points to the "real"beginning of these groups of people.to learn to be the upper crust.

andover,
groton

the highest priced prep schools are the most elite.
a smart person can get a scholarship into a college(clinton)
but it takes money to afford to send a child to the "best" schools.

this has worked in england for a long time.

[James 3528]

Oh please, you make me want to throw up with your jealousy.

[woods mech]

I'd rather go see a more reality based movie like Shrek. Michael Moore is pompous bag of ****. And anyone that honestly considers him to be a serious filmmaker is too stupid to come in out of the rain. He has already been slammed for making stuff up in this so called documentary. And is being sued for faking the Newspaper headlines that he showed. But like the Nazis and Liberals have proven if you tell a lie enough times it becomes the the truth. We had every right to go in and remove Saddam. They violated the cease fire agreement many time times since 1991 and committed acts of war nearly every day by firing on our jets in the no fly zone. They may have not been directly responsible for 9/11 but they provided aid and comfort to the terrorists and also directly supported the Palestinian terrorists in Israel. Also there is evidence that they had something to do with the OKC bombing. This was suppressed by the Clintonistas to give the unwashed masses the illusion of peace and prosperity and guarantee Slick Willie would be relected in '96.

[drcustom]

Diceman I don't know you from Adam but you make a helluva a lot of sense...Thanks for sharing your peace...

[hvac r us 2]

Originally posted by woods mech
I'd rather go see a more reality based movie like Shrek.

ROFL My wife and I went to see 911 and walked out halfway through it...just couldnt take it anymore. I am not a Bush fan but that movie in a strange way makes me want to vote for Bush.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by hvac r us 2

Originally posted by woods mech
I'd rather go see a more reality based movie like Shrek.

ROFL My wife and I went to see 911 and walked out halfway through it...just couldnt take it anymore. I am not a Bush fan but that movie in a strange way makes me want to vote for Bush.



================================================== ==========

Folks!! Take notice. What we have in the above post is the thoughts of a man who can think for himself.

[hvac r us 2]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by hvac r us 2

Originally posted by woods mech
I'd rather go see a more reality based movie like Shrek.

ROFL My wife and I went to see 911 and walked out halfway through it...just couldnt take it anymore. I am not a Bush fan but that movie in a strange way makes me want to vote for Bush.



================================================== ==========

Folks!! Take notice. What we have in the above post is the thoughts of a man who can think for himself.

You know Bootlen, that is the part that makes me crazy!

How anybody can sit through that movie and believe everything that is said without question blows my mind. Use your head people!

Seriously, I have always been cautious of people that can only bash others...show me what you can do, I dont need you to point out how bad the other person is. I can figure that out for myself.

As far as the 911 movie, I cant believe anybody would believe that movie to be the whole truth! I am still amazed, how simple minded can one be? Moore is an amateur film maker at best, the Blair Witch Project was better filmed than 911.

[Edited by hvac r us 2 on 08-16-2004 at 04:07 PM]

[bootlen]

Roger-dodger!

[remember]

that movie was a movie,going to the edge of twistable language in some cases,but it was as truthful as a whitehouse press release.

you say you had to walk out half way thru,why?
what did you see that was false?
how do you know?
are you overreacting to the hype AGAINST the movie?
I haven't seen in this whole thread any actual claim of WHAT was false,just the hysterical statement that it MUST be false.and often by people that didn't even see it.and the few claims of things people claim were false ,were true.they just didn't know it.that is ignorance,not evidence.


and to get into the loose associations of the movie,there is much more to be proven true than untrue.(because even the things in the movie I didn't like were because I didn't care for the WAY he spun them,not because the facts that he was spinning were wrong.It's like fox news.)

[infwsdm]

you are out of your F@#$ing mind

[bootlen]

Originally posted by infwsdm
you are out of your F@#$ing mind

================================================== =========

Yes, he is.

[hvac r us 2]

We didnt walk out half way through the movie, it was about three quaters over. :)
I never said any of the accounts were false. However, all of the accunts were Michael Moores opinion of how they took place. Didnt hear anybody elses opinion throughout the movie other than his...
Common sense tells me there is ALWAYS two sides to every story.
It's strange to me that you believe everything you see in a Hollywood movie made by a second rate film maker without knowing the Presidents point of view. You are condeming Bush without knowing his defense?
Thats like being accused of a crime, going to court and only the prosecutor gets to speak before the jury makes its decision.
All I am saying is, get all the facts before making a judgement call. People always seem to form an opinion, based on opinions. Learn to seperate fact from opinion. I think the movie is more opinion than fact...

[classical]

Hey Hyde I will give you two lies right off the top of my head.

First his assertion that President Bush allowed and authorized a flight of Saudis some wanted in questioning with 9/11 to fly out of the country before other commercial flights. That has been proved a pure bald faced lie by the 9/11 commission and even Richard Clarke who is the one that authorized the flight. The flight did not leave until regular commercial air traffic was resumed.

Second that the Bushes have received Billions of dollars from the Saudis. It is true several different companies that both the current and former president Bush work for or consulted for had dealings worth Billions of dollars over many years. That is not a hard thing to do when dealing with oil and construction. What is also true is that when the bulk of those deals were being made neither of the residents were directly associated with any of these companies. In fact there is an even stronger tie to many in the Clinton administration with the Saudis and these companies.

So go on Hyde bring up specifics that you think are true it will be easy to prove them wrong.

The president has made mistakes in judgment and policy concerning Iraq but none have been intentional or due to some hidden agenda. This have been because the militant minority in Iraq and outsiders do not want for peace or democracy to succeed in the middle east.