POE oil shortage?

[cctrol]

I just ordered a case of emkarate RL32CF and have been told by my supplier that there is a shortage of POE lubricants which is driving prices up.
Does anyone have any further info as to what's going on, and should we be keeping extra oil on hand if we do market work?

[absrbrtek]

Theres only a shortage of it until they drive the price up. Once the price is up which as past history has shown us wont come back down, there will be plenty of it.

[Dad]

Case in point... chech the price of 22 now. It is going up long before the change over. Do ya think there is a shortage?

Everyone that thinks there is a shortage of 22, please raise their mouse....

[supplymike]

I have been told by my suppliers that there is no trouble with the 32 polyolester oil. The problem is with the higher viscosity oil, I think even higher then the 68. the plant that was making that burned down in europe somewhere. As far as the poly for the copeland semi. or even the carlyle which use the 68 I think. There is no shortage in the US

[R12rules]

Our makets run on what? ... copeland and carlyle?

It doenst make any sence at all to have the oil for those units made anywhere but in the good ol US of A!

The fact that any of our lubricants or any other mission critical parts are made "off shore" is again testimony to the trouble we will continue to experience whenever we allow decisions to be made "BY COMMITTEE".



Ask for an opinion and you'll never get a straight answer out of a committee.

Gather three groups together and here is an example of what you'll get for an answer.

4 Englishmen; No answer agreed upon. They are sequestered for deliberation.

4 American Executives; 2 answers. One answer seperate from the other three. Of the other three, one is original, the Boss plagerized it as if it was his own and the other guy is afraid of NOT geeting his promotion so he caves in, (brown noses), to his "superior".

4 Irishmen; Four seperate and distinct responces!
And if there is any brew available ... the replies with be "endless" ...... til the brew runs dry.......

4 Jews; Five seperate responces. All are original. And, like of Irish, they are not done with developing more ides for answers yet. They just need more time.


On a more serious note ... we should be expecting to be taken advantage of like this .. and WORSE!
I mean ... no grown intelligent man with any time in this industry believes there is an ozone hole that WE caused due to CFC's! And yet, as a whole, we did little or nothing about allowing others to develope their plan to take away our favorite freons and give us, in their stead, wanna-be blends.
Blends that are not as stable and not as affordable as what we previously had.


Gasoline is at what? $2 a gallon now?
R-22 hasnt really changed all that much since BEFORE the Montreal Protocol took affect in 92'!


That just goes to show that logic and common sence dont always influence the decisions we agree to abide by.
We are buying blends even though we dont agree with their use.
We are spending four dollars a gallon for milk, in some areas, even though there are cows right nearby on dairy farms.
And we are spending two dollars a gallon for gasoline, which nobody truly knows what the heck we are buring inside it ...all those strange chemicals .... for vehicles we alll agree should be replaced with either hydrogen or methane buring vehicles!!!


Oh well .... stranger in a strange land. I guess that's all we can claim we are.
A "stranger" in a weird land.

[cctrol]

Originally posted by R12rules
Our makets run on what? ... copeland and carlyle?

It doenst make any sence at all to have the oil for those units made anywhere but in the good ol US of A!




The last RL32CF that I used was made in (I hate to say it) France.

[supplymike]

The new copeland polyolester is oil is now identical to the emkarate RL32CF. they used to have one that was a 22. The new product is identical and as far as I know made in the USA. I would say cctrol its time to find a copeland wholesaler near you and get some :)

[cctrol]

Originally posted by supplymike
The new copeland polyolester is oil is now identical to the emkarate RL32CF. they used to have one that was a 22. The new product is identical and as far as I know made in the USA. I would say cctrol its time to find a copeland wholesaler near you and get some :)

Hey supplymike,
Does the word 'RIVI' mean anything to you?
If not, then you are not who I think you are.

[RobY]

Global economy in action. Sorry for the delayed response, but here is what I was told:

The plant in France owned by ExxonMobil (good ole USA based) made a raw material used by everyone who makes POEs. The plant closed in January or February because of repeat outbreaks of Legionella in the cooling towers. Some people have died in the local town nearby. Repeat treatments did not kill the critters in the tower water.

The ExxonMobil plant made over half of the global supply of this raw material used in all POEs 32 cSt and higher in viscosity. This equals global shortage. There are other chemical companies who are trying to bring on new capacity for this raw material and the first stuff is just now hitting the market - shortage now is, or is about to be over.

Some large compressor manufacturers have contracts with the POE manufacturers and get first crack at the product that is made - they never had any shortages. Aftermarket suppliers are not under contract and get whatever is left over - they became short when they ran out of warehoused material.

Global economy in action again - the Emkarate product is made both in France and the USA - the US production is in Louisiana, Missouri - what could be more American. POE and refrigerant both move around the globe as needed. R-134a and R-22 are prime examples of products that are moved all around the globe to take advantage of local pricing differences. Right now the US is exporting a lot of refrigerant to Asia because of the weak dollar. Ten years ago it was reversed because of the strong dollar.

A smart businessman will never put all their manufacturing eggs in one country's basket. If they do, the results can be pretty ugly at times. The stock market punishes companies who periodically have ugly results. The smart businessman knows maximizing his own paycheck depends on good stock prices.

[mrfrze]

The OIL is produced in the good ole USA - its formulated, tested (by US Compressor Manufactuers) and mixed here. However, a portion of it is not. Thats the problem. ISO C9 is an acid used to produce poly oils.

There were three plants manufacturing C9 (short acronmym for a long chemical term)a chemical used in the formulation of POE oils.

1)The plant in France suffered from a case of legionaires disease (subsequently killing people in the local town) and was shut down by the French Goverment, that plant was responsible for apprx 60% of the worldwide availability of this chemical.
2) The plant in Japan was shut down for safety and hazardous violations - they were responsible for 20% of the formulated chemical.
3) The Plant in Germany was the only plant left and subsequently cranked up production to meet the minimum worldwide requirement thus keeping everyone well lubricated.

Also, Copeland did approve a 22 vicosity, however I heard rumblings that it may have shortened the Compressor life due to decreased film aka viscosity - but ultimatley 22 is cheaper to produce (less C9) and the have shortened compressor life to bump sales. Go figure..

Carlyle took a conservative approach and was waiting out the storm until Dupont's plant in CC TX is up and running. Unfortunatley, their compressors use more C9 because of the higher viscosity.

I dont know the Bitzer plans regarding the issue, I assume its the same as Carlyle. Wait and see.

Furthermore, someone tell Calgon to stop hoarding the oil to drive the market..thats bad business.

It's one mans opinion..