Need help choosing between Carrier 24APA748A**31 and Bryant 127ANA048****A System

[AZWldctFan]

Hi,

I am the end of a long road figuring out which HVAC system is best for me. I live in a 2 story 3,024 square foot house in Phoenix, AZ and have a split system with condensers outside and GAS furnaces upstairs in the attic.

My manual-J calculation came out at 7.48 tons, so I'm going with 2 4-ton 2-stage condensers and 2 variable speed furnaces.

CARRIER:
ARI# 3638152
SEER 17.00/ EER 13.50
"PERFORMANCE 17 PURON AC"
Condenser: 24APA748A**31
Coil: CNPH*6124A**+UI
Furnace: 58CV(A,X)110-20
Cooling Capacity: 50,000 Btuh (each)

BRYANT:
ARI# 3638358
SEER 17.00/EER 13.5.00
"PREFERRED 17 PURON AC"
Condenser: 127ANA048****A
Coil: CNPH*6124A**
Furnace: 315(A,J)AV060110
Cooling Capacity: 50,000 Btuh (each)

Neither system would come with the Infinity or Evolution control thermostats, which I did not think I needed for the extra money.

Both contractors are BBB A+. I have a slight, slight preference toward one of them but I have a friend that used the other and was happy. In short, they'd both do a good job.

Does anyone know of any differences between these two systems? If priced pretty close to each other, what would your preference be?

Thank you!

[Mustang894me]

I am a Trane, Lennox and Bryant dealer i personally like Bryant they have really came up in the last few years in the quality of there equipment they did have a recall on there heat exchangers but they honored them and will fix it .. on the other hand my old company i worked for delt with carrier... they are also great equipment .. i personal don't like them in the AC part of it. no real reason but i am more partial towards bryant more or less make sure you get a good warranty on the system and compressor.... the compressor warrenty is usually different make sure you get the better warranty i don't think you could go wrong with either

[sjones]

Same Units just different stickers. I would spend the couple extra hundred for the INF/EVO control if it were me.

[Freezeking2000]

Same Units just different stickers. I would spend the couple extra hundred for the INF/EVO control if it were me.

Get the control for this unit, it would be a foolish idea to not install the infinity control.

[Texas-Tech]

Get the control for this unit, it would be a foolish idea to not install the infinity control.

Ditto

Your spending a lot of money, don't shortchange yourself. This equip needs accurate controls.

[AZWldctFan]

Ditto

Your spending a lot of money, don't shortchange yourself. This equip needs accurate controls.

Ok, I am not understanding how Infinity or Evolution controls will help me. I have heard they can help with humidity, but I live in Phoenix. I have heard they have diagnostics on them for repairmen, but I have a 10 year extended labor warranty. I have heard I will be able to see how often my system is in low stage vs. High stage, but that is just fluff to me as long as my electric bill goes down. My bids went down 10 to 15% when I got rid of the infinity and evolution controls... that was a lot of money...

The Bryant 127a is the old legacy line but has been moved up to preferred. I am told they added a condenser blanket, but the Evolution controls are not an option with it... I would have to go to the 187a for those...

However, infinity controls are an option on the Carrier model. I just don't know of a compelling reason why they are worth the 15% extra cost.

[AZWldctFan]

Another question ...

I have heard that the Bryant 127A is the equivalent to the Carrier 24ACB7 ... But this Carrier dealer is offering the 24APA7 and hasn't said anything about the Carrier 24ACB7...

So what is the difference between the Carrier 24ACB7 and the Carrier 24APA7 if I choose not to have Infinity Controls? Can the 24ACB7 have Infinity Controls?

I have also been told that the Bryant 127A used to be in the Legacy line... Then they started moving part numbers around to qualify for the tax credits and the Bryant 127A received a Compressor Sound Blanket and moved to the Preferred Line....and the major difference between the Bryant 127A and the Bryant 167A is that the 127A is not Evolution Controls ready (and like I said in my previous post, I'm not sure how these controls would benefit me).

[AZWldctFan]

I still need some help guys....

Can anybody give me a compelling reason why I would want Infinity Controls on the Carrier Performance 24APA748A**31 system? Again, with my current bid, this raised the price 20% overall for 2 systems.

Do people feel Bryant 127ANA048****A is a fair comparison to the 24APA748A**31 system? Do I need to go to the Bryant 167A to be a fair comparison?

If the prices are about the same, is the Carrier 24APA7 without Infinity Controls comparable to the Bryant 127A ? Hellllllllllllllllllllp! Thanks!

[sjones]

You are correct the 24APA7 is compared to the 167a (now the 187B)

If you are not going with the INF/EVO control i would go with the 127A or the 24ACB7 Both still 2 stage but not the INF/ EVO compatable. Not as nice of a case on them.

"I have heard they have diagnostics on them for repairmen, but I have a 10 year extended labor warranty."

The EVO/INF control just gives you alot of comfort options and also the Diagnostic ability.

[AZWldctFan]

You are correct the 24APA7 is compared to the 167a (now the 187B)

If you are not going with the INF/EVO control i would go with the 127A or the 24ACB7 Both still 2 stage but not the INF/ EVO compatable. Not as nice of a case on them.

"I have heard they have diagnostics on them for repairmen, but I have a 10 year extended labor warranty."

The EVO/INF control just gives you alot of comfort options and also the Diagnostic ability.

What is the difference in the casing between the Bryant 127A and the Bryant 187B ? Is it louder? I have heard that the 127A had the Compressor blanket added to it (used to be an accessory, now it comes with it) when this unit moved from the Legacy line to the Preferred line. Is this true?

[sjones]

127A Is about 75dBA the 187b is 73dBA

As far as looks the 187B has a black grate for the hole top of the unit and the 127A has just the typical circle black grate for the fan. I was trying to copy and paste pictures but i couldn't get it to work.

[AZWldctFan]

127A Is about 75dBA the 187b is 73dBA

As far as looks the 187B has a black grate for the hole top of the unit and the 127A has just the typical circle black grate for the fan. I was trying to copy and paste pictures but i couldn't get it to work.

Ok, so the Carrier 24APA748 and Bryant 187B are basically the same system.
I asked the Carrier dealer to rework the bid with the Infinity Controls included and that number came back much better (couple hundred bucks each for each system like you said).

I am at a place right now where the bid for Carrier 24APA748 with Infinity Controls is a little less than my Bryant 187B with Evolution controls bid.

I do have a slight preference toward the Bryant dealer, but also have a slight preference toward the Carrier brand name. This is tough.

[sjones]

There the same exact parts in both units so i would go with the company you are more comfortable with.

Is either Dealer offering the Bryant Bonus or the Carrier Cool Cash?

[bmathews]

I am a Trane, Lennox and Bryant dealer i personally like Bryant they have really came up in the last few years in the quality of there equipment they did have a recall on there heat exchangers but they honored them and will fix it .. on the other hand my old company i worked for delt with carrier... they are also great equipment .. i personal don't like them in the AC part of it. no real reason but i am more partial towards bryant more or less make sure you get a good warranty on the system and compressor.... the compressor warrenty is usually different make sure you get the better warranty i don't think you could go wrong with either

You do know that Carrier and Bryant are the same except for shapes and paint color. They are the same with different model numbers. All parts completely interchangeable. Evolution and Infinity are nice. The equipment will work very nicely with our without it if it is setup correctly. The better controller takes the setup out of the tech's hands basically and controls the fan. With lots of other info that you on a day to day basis won't care much about unless you're a gadget guy.

[AZWldctFan]

There the same exact parts in both units so i would go with the company you are more comfortable with.

Is either Dealer offering the Bryant Bonus or the Carrier Cool Cash?

I talked to the Bryant dealer again....

He told me the 24APA7 system from Carrier (Performance Series) should be compared to the Bryant 167A series (Preferred Series), and not the Bryant 187B (Evolution Series). He did say the 167A is going away but I could get it with the Evolution controls still.

He also said the 24APA7 is going away (is this true?). He gave me the replacement info, but I can't remember... maybe 24ANA7 or something like that.

Anyhow, I have a new bid on a Bryant 167A system with Evolution controls (AHRI# 3485230) and that is a tad more than my Bryant 127A system bid...and my Bryant 167A bid is 2 tads less than the Carrier 24APA7 bid.

Should I be happy with the 167A or should I step up for the 187B for more money??

How does Bryant 167A compare to Bryant 187B compare to Carrier 24APA7 ?

Thanks!!!

[sjones]

He has it backwards. The 24ANA7 is going away. Being replaced by the 27APA7. If he can still get the 167A then yes it is closer to the 24APA7. You will get the same SEER and EER with the 167A. I would think your best bet would be the 167A with the EVO control (If the supply house still has the 167A)

[AZWldctFan]

He has it backwards. The 24ANA7 is going away. Being replaced by the 27APA7. If he can still get the 167A then yes it is closer to the 24APA7. You will get the same SEER and EER with the 167A. I would think your best bet would be the 167A with the EVO control (If the supply house still has the 167A)

Sounds Good....

Do you know if there is any difference between the 167A and the 187B? Did Bryant make any changes, or did they just renumber it?

Right now my lowest bid is for the 167A system... then for 6.6% more I can get the Carrier 24APA7.... and for 8.2% more than the 167A I can get the 187B.

Should the 187B cost more than the Carrier 24APA7? Is there anything better on the Bryant 187B than on the Carrier 24APA7? Looks like Bryant Evolution vs. Carrier Performance series, so seems like the 24APA7 is ranked lower on the chain. Shouldn't the 187B compare against something in the Carrier Infinity series?

[sjones]

Carrier doesn't make a 17 SEER INF system anymore. The 24APA7 can do both INF or regular control. So the 24APA7 Is closest to the 187B which can do both EVO or regular control. The 167A and the 24APA7 would be exact units to compare but with the new units the 24APA7 and the 187B is the closest you are going to get from what i can tell. They have changed the look of the 187B alot from the 167A.

If it were me i would go with the 167A. You will get the same SEER and EER out of all the units. If you feel comfortable with both dealers and they have put in all the work they need to with the Manual J and Made sure all your duct work is good the 167A with be your best for your money. Just make sure you regester your unit for the 10 year Warrenty.

[james80031]

The 58cva does have an intelligent processor that will adjust fan speed and run times based on load and previous cycles WHEN ATTACHED TO A SIMPLE SINGLE STAGE T-STAT. The dip switches on the board should be in the proper positions for this. If you use a two stage stat, the modulating control disappears and it functions as a 2-stage unit. The Infinity Controller is a great feature, but if you are on a budget, and prices are close, buy the Carrier and the simplest stat available. Just a FYI- the ductwork better support airflow for these systems or it will never function properly. I assume there was a Manual D report attached to the J?

[chillimd]

I was in the same situation a few weeks ago. The 167A is the 2009 Bryant Preferred condenser and can go with the FE4 air handler which communicates with the Evolution controller. The 167A condenser can also mate with a non-communicating A/H and a Preferred tstat. For 2010, in the Preferred series, the 167A was replaced by the 127A which is not compatible with the FE4 communicating A/H, but the price was lowered slightly from the 167A. The Bryant website is somewhat confusing as they list the 127A with the lower Legacy line, but the brochure says Preferred.

I opted for the 167A system with FE4 handler and Evo controller. This system has communication only between the controller and the A/H. When the parts arrived, they delivered the 187B condenser which is the Evolution series which has all components that communicate. Nice error in my favor. The only diffeence between the 167A and 187B I believe is the extra computer chip/board that allows diagnostics capabilities with the Evolution controller. Why the Carrier costs so much more than the equivalent Bryant is beyond me.

This Evolution 187B system works great and really pulls out humidity. It's very quiet and looks nice too.

127A click here (http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8127-000-25-010410.pdf).
167A click here (http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8167-000-25-062909.pdf).
187B click here (http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/marketing/01-8180-200-25-031610.pdf).

[Mustang894me]

You do know that Carrier and Bryant are the same except for shapes and paint color.



Yes i do know they are the same.. i was just saying i presonally like the Bryants better. Even know they have the same parts. I also belive i said they both are great machines .. I am now a Bryant dealer.. had you aked me a few years ago i would of told you i like carriers better... they make my paycheck roll in ... Its not the name on the machine its how its installed! I can make a goomann outlast a bryant if i install it correctly!