Ever see this?

[Octopus]

I had a pipe fitter adding butterfly valves on CW hydronic system, The pipe fitter used Teflon tape and Teflon dope and it still leaked it seemed to bead right out of the dope, He had them tight and clean what gives I am guessing the pipe is threaded too far back and it's bottomed out? Some real thick pipe dope/gasket maker fixed it but next time I would rather weld them up after all he used Victaulic after the nipples. This happened on all 8 fittings.

[ACRDave]

did you back these fittings out completely and check the threads? i had a die set foul up on me once and didnt catch it untill about my 8th thread. ( you get zoned out with a hand threader! ) they could also be cut too deep as opposed to fouled up. giving the water a place to go.

[prorefco]

Since when is teflon tape supposed to be used along with dope?? I started seeing this about 20 years ago in the northeast. This contradicts what the union taught us. I have found that when using tape with dope it's not uncommon to have leaks....

[flange]

f its going in vic, why not use vic flanges?

[Octopus]

f its going in vic, why not use vic flanges?

Exactly but this was the pipe fitters job to figure out. I had not seen the job untill it was too late.

[C-Jac486]

Since when is teflon tape supposed to be used along with dope?? I started seeing this about 20 years ago in the northeast. This contradicts what the union taught us. I have found that when using tape with dope it's not uncommon to have leaks....

I have to agree... sometimes too much dope is just as bad as no dope at all.... we have "Fitters" at my work making "dope sandwiches" Blue pipe dope. teflon, and more blue pipe dope..... I just laugh and pull out my PST (loctite 567)

[prorefco]

I have tried lots of different kinds of dope but I always came back to good old rectorseal #5 for most applications. All the others leaked at one time or another, either right away or within a year after application.

I also have seen lots and lots of untrained fitters out there who have been working in the trade for decades... And when you attempt to correct their errors, they go off on you... Go figure.....

[C-Jac486]

I have tried lots of different kinds of dope but I always came back to good old rectorseal #5 for most applications. All the others leaked at one time or another, either right away or within a year after application.

I also have seen lots and lots of untrained fitters out there who have been working in the trade for decades... And when you attempt to correct their errors, they go off on you... Go figure.....

Yeah I know what your talking about... they look at you like your some kind of idiot.... I use the rectorseal 5 on gas piping because it contains no teflon.

[stanbyyourword]

i was gonna say rectorseal as well fridge side and plumbing, never had better results , that liquid teflon stuf is junk stan

[Paul Bee]

For some applications rectorseal #2 I use #5 for everything else. I know it is old school but if I really don't want a leak and it is not potable water I use Permatex form a gasket #2 non hardening.

[hvacplumb]

I am a union pipefitter and plumber and I have put together miles of screw pipe and I will always teflon first and then put a little dope on.

[C-Jac486]

I am a union pipefitter and plumber and I have put together miles of screw pipe and I will always teflon first and then put a little dope on.

What local are you out of? I'm a Union Fitter too, I don't see the need for teflon and dope. Some guys, I see using teflon, put too much on causing the teflon to just push up the threads..... Do you use teflon on your gas piping?

[Jettinvr6sc]

rope it and dope it

[Randy S.]

Have the electricians been using the pipe threader again?

[skoonen]

Usually on the larger threaded pipe we use quick wick or lamp wick, whatever ya want to call it, comes in a ball from the plumbing supply house.

[cannedheat]

i'm also a union fitter, local 597. when threading pipe theres a rule of thumb to check your threads after you thread your first piece by hand tightening a fitting on the end of your pipe, to theck thread depth. if done correctly it will not leak. remember teflon tape or dope is for ease and protection of the threads not to stop leaks. i also use teflon 1st then some dope on 1-1/4 or larger dia. for ease of assembly. anything smaller dope or tape seems to work fine. good luck

[toptech]

Steam or water I use Permabond. A little expensive but it dont leak.
Dam Chinese flanges:patriot:

[mtfallsmikey]

Back in the day.....A pipe dope called John Sunshine, made in an era when lead was still added to pipe dope.....

Mostly use R-Seal #5 now.

[hvacker]

I'm sure some will remember from apprentice school that pipe dope is not a sealer but a lubricant. Correctly made pipe threads are tapered and with a lube will seal themselves.
Any pipe dope will work on good threads. From white lead and linseed oil to what's available today.
I'd suspect the pipe dies were adjusted wrong. You should be able to turn a fitting 3 revolutions by hand before getting tight.
The oddest thing I saw a fitter do was use STP, the oil additive, on an allumium valve boss. It was screwed all the way until it ran out of threads. I still don't know why the boss didn't bust.

[Peztoy]

I've seen old school pipefitters use pipe dope and tape. Some rare times it would leak. He'd then say start the pumps and come back tomorrow, it'll be fine. Sure enough leak was gone. He'd say it just needed a little dirt to seal the joint. :LOL:

Flange isn't cranked is it?

[hvacker]

I've seen old school pipefitters use pipe dope and tape. Some rare times it would leak. He'd then say start the pumps and come back tomorrow, it'll be fine. Sure enough leak was gone. He'd say it just needed a little dirt to seal the joint. :LOL:

Flange isn't cranked is it?

That's a stretch. I've seen plumbers put salt on leaky joints to stop leaks. That's no excuse. A proper thread with lube, almost any lube, won't leak within the pressure it was designed to function.
If everything is right , no problem. But if the treads are gouged for instance from poor lube when cutting, they might leak. f the threads are too loose, (wrong adjustment) they could leak. A plumber/fitter needs to check the dies before they start cutting. That's like plumber/fitter 101.
It's all about the skill in cutting the threads, not the lube. Any incorrect made thread can leak. But to depend on dirt to solve our problems is inept. What if there is no dirt????????
And I've got a shinny new dime to prove it!![/I][/B][/I]

[mtfallsmikey]

That's a stretch. I've seen plumbers put salt on leaky joints to stop leaks. That's no excuse. A proper thread with lube, almost any lube, won't leak within the pressure it was designed to function.
If everything is right , no problem. But if the treads are gouged for instance from poor lube when cutting, they might leak. f the threads are too loose, (wrong adjustment) they could leak. A plumber/fitter needs to check the dies before they start cutting. That's like plumber/fitter 101.
It's all about the skill in cutting the threads, not the lube. Any incorrect made thread can leak. But to depend on dirt to solve our problems is inept. What if there is no dirt????????
And I've got a shinny new dime to prove it!![/I][/B][/I]

Anyone ever use candle wicking?

[C-Jac486]

I'm just wondering what we're using on gas piping?

[Octopus]

I'm just wondering what we're using on gas piping?

Don't they use that yellow teflon tape stuff?

[Tassajara]

f its going in vic, why not use vic flanges?

ill put my $20 on cost ;-)

[C-Jac486]

ill put my $20 on cost ;-)

They could have just welded on slip on flangse and been done with it!

[Octopus]

They saved money by not using vit's however the time it took them to fudge with those Chinese threads cost them not only money but it made them look bad.

[Some Dude]

I'm sure some will remember from apprentice school that pipe dope is not a sealer but a lubricant. Correctly made pipe threads are tapered and with a lube will seal themselves.
Any pipe dope will work on good threads. From white lead and linseed oil to what's available today.
I'd suspect the pipe dies were adjusted wrong. You should be able to turn a fitting 3 revolutions by hand before getting tight.
The oddest thing I saw a fitter do was use STP, the oil additive, on an allumium valve boss. It was screwed all the way until it ran out of threads. I still don't know why the boss didn't bust.

100 percent, now preach it from the rooftops, ITS A LUBRICANT NOT A SEALER,,,,,,then there is expando, blue jesus and red jesus , those do both.
But you shouldnt need them.

[Octopus]

100 percent, now preach it from the rooftops, ITS A LUBRICANT NOT A SEALER,,,,,,then there is expando, blue jesus and red jesus , those do both.
But you shouldnt need them.

What is blue jesus and red jesus lock tight?

[supertek65]

is it glycol?????????????????????




I had a pipe fitter adding butterfly valves on CW hydronic system, The pipe fitter used Teflon tape and Teflon dope and it still leaked it seemed to bead right out of the dope, He had them tight and clean what gives I am guessing the pipe is threaded too far back and it's bottomed out? Some real thick pipe dope/gasket maker fixed it but next time I would rather weld them up after all he used Victaulic after the nipples. This happened on all 8 fittings.

[Octopus]

is it glycol?????????????????????

No glycol

[Some Dude]

What is blue jesus and red jesus lock tight?

Blue jesus is leak lock
Red jesus is gasolia.

[hvacr man]

I see idiots around here putting dope on the face and threads of a union

[Octopus]

I see idiots around here putting dope on the face and threads of a union

::DD:

That is priceless.

[cannedheat]

how about never sieze on unions. thats why they make it.

[DITAW]

I agree with Hvacker... dies were probably set wrong. set right you will never have a problem. I m still in the apprenticeship and they tell us it is ok to use Teflon with dope. I don't have nearly the experience as most on here but every time we do screw pipe take the time to set the threader right tape and dope and never had a problem.

[Some Dude]

Using teflon with dope has been done on jobs that were bid and spec.
It is not Standard practice , actually the first two or three threads serve no purpose except to get the fitting started.

I was always taught you should be able to spin the fitting by hand 3.5 turns as a rule of thumb.
Teflon on glycol can always be very dicey.

[prorefco]

So, if we all acknowledge that dope and or teflon is for a lubricant and doesn't add to the tightness of the joint but merely makes it possible to screw the joint tight, then why would anhyone use both tape AND dope?? What purpose does using both (instead of one or the other) serve??? I don't get it.....

[DITAW]

the main sealing in a threaded joint is the compression of the threads to one another since it is a tapered thread. Teflon does provide some sealing affect to small deformities in the threading process and acts as a lubricant, pipe dope (with out Teflon) is only meant to be a sealant for those deformities during the threading process or problem joints. plus the material in the pipe and the pressure are gonna play a big role in the selection of the dope to be used. this is what i was taught and they said it is ok to use dope and tape together. gonna do a little research on it, but from my experience never really had a problem doing it.

[prorefco]

Don't ya think that if teflon (tape) & dope combined was better than just one or the two, then the manfacturers would package them both together as a kit?? Don't ya think the International Mechanical Code or the National Fuel Gas Code would specify this method??


I still don't get why one would use the two together..... It makes no sense to me....

[DITAW]

I tend to agree with you it does not make much sense, and i can not find any information to back up a argument to prove the use of both together. but on the other side why make dope with Teflon in it? would that be different than using tape then applying a dope that does not contain Teflon? I will ask my instructors maybe they have some info but i doubt it. never really gave any of this any thought before.

[prorefco]

The International Mechanical Code 1996 states in section 1203.3.5: "Thread lubricant, pipe-joint compound, or tape shall be applied on the male threads only and shall be approved for application on the piping material.

In section 1303.11.4 (in the fuel gas section) it states : Threads shall conform to ASME B1.20.1. Pipe joint compound or tape shall be applied on the male threads only.

I do not see it state "tape AND pipe-joint compound" ,,, it does state "tape OR pipe-joint compound"...

So, do as you please but I still don't see a purpose for using both on the same joint....

[Octopus]

The International Mechanical Code 1996 states in section 1203.3.5: "Thread lubricant, pipe-joint compound, or tape shall be applied on the male threads only and shall be approved for application on the piping material.

In section 1303.11.4 (in the fuel gas section) it states : Threads shall conform to ASME B1.20.1. Pipe joint compound or tape shall be applied on the male threads only.

I do not see it state "tape AND pipe-joint compound" ,,, it does state "tape OR pipe-joint compound"...

So, do as you please but I still don't see a purpose for using both on the same joint....


I'll tell you why. The piece of crap threads on these flanges, pipes etc. that are now "acceptable" from china, India or wherever they come from are all crap and the guy who is setting up the tool and die's has a third grade education and gets paid by the piece .001 Rubi each and could care less about it's functionality.

[prorefco]

I'll tell you why. The piece of crap threads on these flanges, pipes etc. that are now "acceptable" from china, India or wherever they come from are all crap and the guy who is setting up the tool and die's has a third grade education and gets paid by the piece .001 Rubi each and could care less about it's functionality.

Ummm, OK....