Hoshizaki Intermitant Issue

[andrewd33]

KM280MAF air cooled ice machine has worked great but I noticed it has been intermittantly stopping in the middle of the freeze cycle and then starting up again, a couple times it will remain off for a few minutes and the ice will start dropping out. I noticed it the last time I was there for cleaning but it doesn't do it all the time. I was thinking maybe the bin stat could be cutting it out. I was trying to be proactive rather than wait for a hot day and no ice call. FYI I am a/c guy and this is family so my only refrig acct. My buddy services any equipment that needs service on the refrig circuits that doesn't take R-22. That is my way out of most of the refrig work, I don't carry those refrigerants and don't want to. I still get stuck with most of the PM.
I installed this machine about 11 years ago and have had very little repairs, but have done regular cleanings on the water and air side. The only parts needed were 1 very expensive water pump and and a water inlet valve. I also started up their secondary machine Scotsman the other day and realized what a POS that thing is. Cheap plastic pieces all over the place.

[pdrake65]

Which upsets you more....that you had to start up the Scotsman or that your Japanese import has issues?:whistle:

[pecmsg]

The bin stat will only shut the unit down after defrost. Stopping in the middle of a cycle look at the head pressure or get your meter out and start checking.

[icemeister]

The bin stat will only shut the unit down after defrost. Stopping in the middle of a cycle look at the head pressure or get your meter out and start checking.

The Hoshi bin t'stat kills power to the board so everything stops no matter where it is in the cycle, so what the OP says here sounds like it could be the the bin thermostat.

If it is, then when the machine restarts it should be starting back at square one with a fill cycle, etc.

It's not clear to me from andrew's description however if that's what it was doing or if it simply resumed operation like nothing happened.

[Dowadudda]

The Hoshi bin t'stat kills power to the board so everything stops no matter where it is in the cycle, so what the OP says here sounds like it could be the the bin thermostat.

If it is, then when the machine restarts it should be starting back at square one with a fill cycle, etc.

It's not clear to me from andrew's description however if that's what it was doing or if it simply resumed operation like nothing happened.

hoshi always starts in a defrost too doesn't it?

[skpkey9]

yep

[icemeister]

hoshi always starts in a defrost too doesn't it?

What I was getting at here was if it was restarting in harvest, then the culprit must be the bin control.

If it was restarting where it left off...like nothing happened...then the board must be at fault because a Hoshi control board isn't programmed to do that under any circumstances.

[Dowadudda]

What I was getting at here was if it was restarting in harvest, then the culprit must be the bin control.

If it was restarting where it left off...like nothing happened...then the board must be at fault because a Hoshi control board isn't programmed to do that under any circumstances.

I know what you meant.

I was just trying to brown nose a bit here.

So I spose your gonna start picking on me too tonight.

[andrewd33]

I will check the condensing coil. Sometimes it looks clean but the grease from the kitchen air restricts it. Right now it is still working, and I started up the Scottsman and as much as I hate that machine, it cranks out ice like crazy, so I think I will take the unit off line, take it outside and deep clean the condensing coil the water circuit and let them use the scotsman now and restart the hoshizaki up and troubleshoot it w/o the pressure of leaving them without ice before the summer starts to heat up. Then I can get my meter out and start eliminating things one by one. It definitely doesn't always restart in harvest, it is like a time out, some times after a few minutes the unit will start to drop ice by the natural melting process, then the unit starts up again. It is very intermittant now, but I assume it will become worse with time.

Thanks for your help guys. If you have any additional input, its always welcome.

[icemeister]

So I think we rule out the bin thermostat since it's not going into a restart sequence.

I don't believe it would be tripping the high pressure control either because that too, will send you into restart. Also, the HP switch trip is more likely to trip at the beginning of freeze when the discharge pressure is highest, not in mid-freeze as you describe.

Since the system simply resumes operation after one of these shutdowns, logically the control board must be remaining powered up via the low voltage supplied by the transformer. The problem then most likely is in the 115v supply to the board. Loose connection? Bad connector? Thermal crack in the board?

If all else is exhausted, I'd try another board.

[andrewd33]

It will be nice and easy to get her good and clean if disconnect her and bring her outside and give her the deluxe cleaning package with the shammy wax (LOL) since it has been 8 months since her last water circuit cleaning. 2 years ago I alkifoamed the greasy condensing coil. Last year I skipped that because it looked clean, I can clean the condenser outside better and use simple green instead of alkifoam which I try to avoid get it good and clean, check all of the connections, look at the board and see if it may be that. I would have to guess that a Hoshi board aint gonna be cheap. Right now it is still making ice like a champ, this occassional time out hasn't generated a no ice call. I noticed it and also told the chef to pay attention to it and he said he has noticed it on several occassions the past week. Although the bin has stayed pretty full.

By the way PDrake, I know I shouldn't be touting foreign goods, but sometimes the import products are more reliable than some of the domestics. I installed the Japanese import 11 or 12 years ago with very minimal repairs. The 4 year old scotty has needed much more attention than the 11 year old import. I can't speak on behalf of Manitowic because I don't know them. Other than that I haven't heard too many nice things about IOM's, aint too much else to choose from. If I had my way I'd sell them a nice new Vogt Tube Ice machine with a remote condenser, but the smallest capacity is 2000 lbs / day and a pretty big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ price tag.
Speaking of Japanese Imports
Today I just installed a nice brand new Mitsubishi PFY ducted air handler and heat pump and tommorow when we start her up I may way in in favor or against the imports. This place couldn't fit a regular air handler or furnace and the HO insisted on NO wall mounted evaps.

[pecmsg]

The Hoshi bin t'stat kills power to the board so everything stops no matter where it is in the cycle, so what the OP says here sounds like it could be the the bin thermostat.

If it is, then when the machine restarts it should be starting back at square one with a fill cycle, etc.

I stand corrected Ice

As I was typing my response I was working on a bid for a Scotsman.
Getting Gruppy I guess.

[pdrake65]

It will be nice and easy to get her good and clean if disconnect her and bring her outside and give her the deluxe cleaning package with the shammy wax (LOL) since it has been 8 months since her last water circuit cleaning. 2 years ago I alkifoamed the greasy condensing coil. Last year I skipped that because it looked clean, I can clean the condenser outside better and use simple green instead of alkifoam which I try to avoid get it good and clean, check all of the connections, look at the board and see if it may be that. I would have to guess that a Hoshi board aint gonna be cheap. Right now it is still making ice like a champ, this occassional time out hasn't generated a no ice call. I noticed it and also told the chef to pay attention to it and he said he has noticed it on several occassions the past week. Although the bin has stayed pretty full.

By the way PDrake, I know I shouldn't be touting foreign goods, but sometimes the import products are more reliable than some of the domestics. I installed the Japanese import 11 or 12 years ago with very minimal repairs. The 4 year old scotty has needed much more attention than the 11 year old import. I can't speak on behalf of Manitowic because I don't know them. Other than that I haven't heard too many nice things about IOM's, aint too much else to choose from. If I had my way I'd sell them a nice new Vogt Tube Ice machine with a remote condenser, but the smallest capacity is 2000 lbs / day and a pretty big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ price tag.
Speaking of Japanese Imports
Today I just installed a nice brand new Mitsubishi PFY ducted air handler and heat pump and tommorow when we start her up I may way in in favor or against the imports. This place couldn't fit a regular air handler or furnace and the HO insisted on NO wall mounted evaps.

Just a little ribbing! :D

[Joe Harper]

I thought hoshi's were made outside of Atlanta??

[pdrake65]

I thought hoshi's were made outside of Atlanta??

Yes , some are. I was just having fun comparing the two machines.

[andrewd33]

Me being conservative and pro-american, I agree that we should try to sell domestic products when we can. We are Trane dealers at my company and Thank God that is still made here and something to be proud of.(except for the bad TXV's they got from you know where! Try to find an American made Televison or a competitively priced Ductless. I think EMI may have been American at one point, or another or may still be. From the looks of it any Trane, York or Carrier Ductless look like they were manufactured overseas and then just labeled with the Carrier, York or Trane brand on a unit that looks exactly the same no matter who's it is. But in some ways we American's have dropped the ball on some of the manufacturing. Some of due to all of the heavy regulation and environmental rules that just make it too expensive to be competitive with foreign goods. Anyhow I'll get off my soap box now... Now that we have "free" health care we can all go celebrate.

[ECtofix]

KM280MAF air cooled ice machine has worked great but I noticed it has been intermittantly stopping in the middle of the freeze cycle and then starting up again...

...and...

It definitely doesn't always restart in harvest, it is like a time out, some times after a few minutes the unit will start to drop ice by the natural melting process, then the unit starts up again. It is very intermittant now, but I assume it will become worse with time.


A late suggestion to a dated thread since problem likely found and solved by now.

He never mentioned the LEDs on the board. Were they going OFF too?
From the problem described, sounds like they weren't and the board remained IN CYCLE despite what the compressor was doing.

Were the contactors opening during that "time out"? If so, bad output or connection from board to contactor coil.
If they remained closed, a failing contactor pole or faulty connection somewhere between the contactor and the compressor.

[craig1]

2 weeks ago I got called to a Hoshi that had gone off on a 3 code beep. I reset it, it seemed to be running fine, and half way through the freeze cycle it stopped. Compressor and pump just stopped. I immediately thought back to this thread. The lights on the board were showing both should be on and everything appeared normal on the board. I touched some connections to the board and it started right up where it left off. I could not get the problem to reproduce so I checked all the connections and left it like that. Yesterday the owner calls and says it went down again. He's pretty handy so i tell him to open it up, wiggle the wires, reset it and I'll pick up a new board for him on monday. He called back and said wiggling the wires got it running. I suspect a cracked solder joint.

[VTP99]

I suspect a cracked solder joint.

Funny you should mention that. Had a call on a Ruud commercial hot water tank shutting down. Found the automatic damper not opening. When i opened the box with the motor control and started moving wires around it actuated. Removed board and found a cracked solder joint. Came back later that day with soldering iron only to find maintenance guy removed damper. :gah:

[ECtofix]

2 weeks ago I got called to a Hoshi that had gone off on a 3 code beep. I reset it, it seemed to be running fine, and half way through the freeze cycle it stopped. Compressor and pump just stopped. I immediately thought back to this thread. The lights on the board were showing both should be on and everything appeared normal on the board. I touched some connections to the board and it started right up where it left off. I could not get the problem to reproduce so I checked all the connections and left it like that. Yesterday the owner calls and says it went down again. He's pretty handy so i tell him to open it up, wiggle the wires, reset it and I'll pick up a new board for him on monday. He called back and said wiggling the wires got it running. I suspect a cracked solder joint.

Always interesting when wiggling bundles of wires, or even inadvertently touching them during troubleshooting, makes the equipment start working. Went through that yesterday on an emergency call.

To me, that's not conclusive enough to shake a pointed finger and go "Bad...BAD board!" (sorry...couldn't help myself:D)

I get very investigative, start snipping wire ties if necessary to narrow it down to THE wire and THE connection. Sometimes I'll narrow it down to a faulty wire terminal crimp, which are very elusive and can sometimes be found only through voltage or ohmmeter readings.

Definitely take a board with you, but I suggest scrutinizing connections and such.

[KB Cool]

2 weeks ago I got called to a Hoshi that had gone off on a 3 code beep. I reset it, it seemed to be running fine, and half way through the freeze cycle it stopped. Compressor and pump just stopped. I immediately thought back to this thread. The lights on the board were showing both should be on and everything appeared normal on the board. I touched some connections to the board and it started right up where it left off. I could not get the problem to reproduce so I checked all the connections and left it like that. Yesterday the owner calls and says it went down again. He's pretty handy so i tell him to open it up, wiggle the wires, reset it and I'll pick up a new board for him on monday. He called back and said wiggling the wires got it running. I suspect a cracked solder joint.

I had the same problem on a km1200. Wiggled the 10 pin connector and it started right back up.Wiggled it again and it starts chattering. I changed both the connector and board to remove all doubt. But, i suspect a bad solder joint.